In the Beginning

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 09 2012,09:20)

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 08 2012,15:01) 'Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US' Oops, what you gonna do now? His name was Jesus and in that name of Jesus we are saved. 2B, FIRST, you didn't even attempt to address my post. SECONDLY, the Hebrew words “immanuel” mean “God IS with us.  The only people who try to say it means “God with us” are Trinitarians, who want Jesus to BE the very God he is the Son of. THIRDLY, compare the phrase “God is with us” in 2 Chronicles 13:12 and Isaiah 8:10.  Does the phrase mean that God Almighty Himself came down from heaven and was LITERALLY “with” the Israelites in those two verses? Of course not.  The phrase “God is with us” simply means “God is on our side, fighting right along with us”.  Surely you've heard someone say, “May God be with you and bless you on your journey”, or something to that effect.  It means “may the presence of God be with you, guiding you and helping you”.  It doesn't mean that the being of God Almighty Himself is personally and literally right there with you, in the passenger seat. It is the same with Jesus.  His name is called “immanuel”, because through him coming to the earth, God demonstrated that He is with His people (on their side, fighting for them), still to this day. The Trinitarians try to do the same thing with Jesus being called “Jehovah our Righteousness” (when it is really “Jehovah IS our Righteousness”. Jeremiah 23:6) They don't get as far with this one though, since Jer 33:16 uses the same name for the city of Jerusalem. And FINALLY, are you suggesting that YHVH changed His name to “Jesus”?   2B, please address my points from the last post.  Please acknowledge the fact that your understanding does not match the words of Jesus in John 3:16-18. Then we can move farther down John 1.

you do not know what you are saying boy.
Christ is not the father.
always bear in mind that Christ is not GOD THE FATHER.
he is GOD THE ONLY SON

john 1.18
John 1:18

Common English Bible (CEB)

18 No one has ever seen God.
God the only Son,
who is at the Father’s side,
has made God known.

the WORD was God
John 1:1

Common English Bible (CEB)
Story of the Word

1 In the beginning was the Word
and the Word was with God
and the Word was God.

i suggest you study greek. bec i know that you will insist again your NWT of john 1.1
those translators of NWT do not have enough knowledge about greek.

the NWT contradicts itself. you know why?
john 1.1 says a god
but john 20.28 says Christ is God
here is the NWT

in answer thomas said to him, my Lord and my God!

the NWT believes Christ is a god but the john 20.28 of NWT said he is God.
what a contradiction LOL

they did not said god in john 20.28 but God. it only proves they are confused LOL

[Lightenup]

Good post jammin!

[terraricca]

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 09 2012,07:52)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 09 2012,09:20) Quote (2besee @ Dec. 08 2012,15:01) 'Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US' Oops, what you gonna do now? His name was Jesus and in that name of Jesus we are saved. 2B, FIRST, you didn't even attempt to address my post. SECONDLY, the Hebrew words “immanuel” mean “God IS with us.  The only people who try to say it means “God with us” are Trinitarians, who want Jesus to BE the very God he is the Son of. THIRDLY, compare the phrase “God is with us” in 2 Chronicles 13:12 and Isaiah 8:10.  Does the phrase mean that God Almighty Himself came down from heaven and was LITERALLY “with” the Israelites in those two verses? Of course not.  The phrase “God is with us” simply means “God is on our side, fighting right along with us”.  Surely you've heard someone say, “May God be with you and bless you on your journey”, or something to that effect.  It means “may the presence of God be with you, guiding you and helping you”.  It doesn't mean that the being of God Almighty Himself is personally and literally right there with you, in the passenger seat. It is the same with Jesus.  His name is called “immanuel”, because through him coming to the earth, God demonstrated that He is with His people (on their side, fighting for them), still to this day. The Trinitarians try to do the same thing with Jesus being called “Jehovah our Righteousness” (when it is really “Jehovah IS our Righteousness”. Jeremiah 23:6) They don't get as far with this one though, since Jer 33:16 uses the same name for the city of Jerusalem. And FINALLY, are you suggesting that YHVH changed His name to “Jesus”?   2B, please address my points from the last post.  Please acknowledge the fact that your understanding does not match the words of Jesus in John 3:16-18. Then we can move farther down John 1. you do not know what you are saying boy. Christ is not the father. always bear in mind that Christ is not GOD THE FATHER. he is GOD THE ONLY SON john 1.18 John 1:18 Common English Bible (CEB) 18 No one has ever seen God.    God the only Son,        who is at the Father’s side,        has made God known. the WORD was God John 1:1 Common English Bible (CEB) Story of the Word 1 In the beginning was the Word    and the Word was with God    and the Word was God. i suggest you study greek. bec i know that you will insist again your NWT of john 1.1 those translators of NWT do not have enough knowledge about greek. the NWT contradicts itself. you know why? john 1.1 says a god but john 20.28 says Christ is God here is the NWT in answer thomas said to him, my Lord and my God! the NWT believes Christ is a god but the john 20.28 of NWT said he is God. what a contradiction LOL they did not said god in john 20.28 but God. it only proves they are confused LOL

jimmy

why do you have to lie about others ,are you feeling so unsecure that that is your only comfort zone ???I mean lying .

Quote

you (Mike)do not know what you are saying boy. Christ is not the father. always bear in mind that Christ is not GOD THE FATHER. he is GOD THE ONLY SON

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 08 2012,19:59)

Good post jammin!

Really? It seemed like his usual tripe to me.

Pick one of the “good points” from his post, and bring it up to me, Kathi. I don't mind discussing scriptural differences with you, because you are an adult who makes some valid points now and again.

Unlike jammin, I value your input – even if I rarely agree with your interpretations of scripture.

(I do, however, find it funny how people like Jack, Keith, you, and jammin will come into a thread where I'm arguing FOR the same thing you believe, and yet find a way to attack ME – instead of the other guy. In this case, I'm arguing that the Word in John 1:1 IS Jesus, while 2B is arguing it is not. Yet here jammin is – attacking MY post. )

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 09 2012,07:59)

Good post jammin!

Kathi

you can not be trusted you call all things good ,that is bad

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 09 2012,14:28)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 08 2012,19:59) Good post jammin! Really?  It seemed like his usual tripe to me. Pick one of the “good points” from his post, and bring it up to me, Kathi.  I don't mind discussing scriptural differences with you, because you are an adult who makes some valid points now and again. Unlike jammin, I value your input – even if I rarely agree with your interpretations of scripture. (I do, however, find it funny how people like Jack, Keith, you, and jammin will come into a thread where I'm arguing FOR the same thing you believe, and yet find a way to attack ME – instead of the other guy.  In this case, I'm arguing that the Word in John 1:1 IS Jesus, while 2B is arguing it is not.  Yet here jammin is – attacking MY post.   )

sis kathi is right.

try to read your favorite NWT. they are confused LOL

[mikeboll64]

Well jammin,

Even the TRINITARIAN scholars agree that “a god” is a possible translation of John 1:1.

And your “sis” Kathi also agrees with me that 1:1 speaks of TWO theos, one of whom was with the other in the beginning.

And the TRINITARIAN scholars of NETNotes conclude the same thing, saying, The construction in John 1:1c does not equate the Word with the person of God (this is ruled out by 1:1b, “the Word was with God”).

So what, then, is your point exactly?  That the NWT actually ACTS upon all these common sense facts listed above, and makes the correct translation?

Or is it that you don't really even have a point to make, since you are already aware that YOUR understanding is nonsense because it calls for our ONE “God Almighty” being with our ONE “God Almighty”?

Kathi, I await your response.

[mikeboll64]

Hi 2B,

I realize you are busy.  When you get the chance, please address the following post from Dec 8th, so we can then move on down the line of John 1………………….

John 1:12
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

What name is it we are to believe in to become children of God?  Is the name John was talking about “God YHVH”?

Compare your understanding (so far) with John 3:16-18.

In your understanding, we are to believe in the name of “God YHVH”, who came into the world.  Yet Jesus says we are to believe in the name of the SON OF God, whom God SENT into the world.

Do you see how your understanding is already going off track?  And we've only just begun to scratch the surface.

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 12 2012,12:49)

Well jammin, Even the TRINITARIAN scholars agree that “a god” is a possible translation of John 1:1. And your “sis” Kathi also agrees with me that 1:1 speaks of TWO theos, one of whom was with the other in the beginning. And the TRINITARIAN scholars of NETNotes conclude the same thing, saying, The construction in John 1:1c does not equate the Word with the person of God (this is ruled out by 1:1b, “the Word was with God”). So what, then, is your point exactly?  That the NWT actually ACTS upon all these common sense facts listed above, and makes the correct translation? Or is it that you don't really even have a point to make, since you are already aware that YOUR understanding is nonsense because it calls for our ONE “God Almighty” being with our ONE “God Almighty”?   Kathi, I await your response.

LOL

those who agree do not have enough knowledge about greek. scholars said that. you do not know the language mike so pls stop pretending. i told you to study in school. you talk too much. why dont you go first to school and study the language LOL

if your NWT believes that the right translation is a god in john 1.1, they should also said in john 20.28 that he is god and not God.

LOL

those verses proves that they dont have enough knowledge in greek LOL

[mikeboll64]

Go to school, Mike.  You talk too much, Mike.

Really jammin?  Is THAT your way of addressing the points I just made?    

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 12 2012,18:22)

if your NWT believes that the right translation is a god in john 1.1, they should also said in john 20.28 that he is god and not God.

The JWs don't believe Thomas was calling Jesus “my God”.  They believe like many other people that Thomas was saying, “OMG!  It's really my Lord!”.

It is most likely for that reason they translated 20:28 as “God” – because they believe it speaks of the Father, and not of Jesus.

But you should also realize that we in English cap the first letter of titles when we are FORMALLY addressing a person with that title.  For example:

1 Samuel 16:1
The LORD said to Samuel, “How long will you mourn for Saul, since I have rejected him as king over Israel?

Do you notice that the word “king” is NOT capped, because no one is FORMALLY addressing Saul as the king of Israel at this time.

1 Samuel 18:6
When the men were returning home after David had killed the Philistine, the women came out from all the towns of Israel to meet King Saul with singing and dancing, with joyful songs and with tambourines and lutes.

Do you see how the word “King” IS capped in this verse, because “King Saul”, when the words are put together, address Saul with a FORMAL title/name.

Read the scriptures, and you'll see many other instances just like this one.

What that means is that I can say, “Jehovah is a god of love” – WITHOUT capping the word “god”.

But if I refer to “Jehovah God”, using His FORMAL title/name, then I cap “God”.

[jammin]

LOL

then give me a version that says OMG in john 20.28 boy LOL

false teachers like you want people to believe their imagination. sorry boy but people who know how to read will not believe you LOL

you talk non sense. you cant even read your imagination in the bible.
i believe what the bible said.
if you can give me any single version that says OMG in john 20.28, ill believe you

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 08 2012,22:20)

I do not usually read any of the early church writings, but I just happened to stumble upon this while i ws looking for something else: It is by a St Irenaues 1st or 2nd century, and it says that God alone created, not any Angels nor any other gods, nor any other being but only the one God, through his own spoken word. http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.iii.iii.html QUOTE…………..Chapter II.—The world was not formed by angels, or by any other being, contrary to the will of the most high God, but was made by the Father through the Word. 5. For this is a peculiarity of the pre-eminence of God, not to stand in need of other instruments for the creation of those things which are summoned into existence. His own Word is both suitable and sufficient for the formation of all things, even as John, the disciple of the Lord,  declares regarding Him: “All things were made by Him, and without Him was nothing made.”Now, among the “all things” our world must be embraced. It too, therefore, was made by His Word, as Scripture tells us in the book of Genesis that He made all things connected with our world by His Word. David also expresses the same truth [when he says] “For He spake, and they were made; He commanded, and they were created.” Whom, therefore, shall we believe as to the creation of the world—these heretics who have been mentioned that prate so foolishly and inconsistently on the subject, or the disciples of the Lord, and Moses, who was both a faithful servant of God and a prophet? He at first narrated the formation of the world in these words: “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth,” and all other things in succession; but neither gods nor angels [had any share in the work]. Now, that this God is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Paul the apostle also has declared, [saying,] “There is one God, the Father, who is above all, and through all things, and in us all.” I have indeed proved already that there is only one God; but I shall further demonstrate this from the apostles themselves, and from the discourses of the Lord. For what sort of conduct would it be, were we to forsake the utterances of the prophets, of the Lord, and of the apostles, that we might give heed to these persons, who speak not a word of sense?…………….UNQUOTE I don't usually read them as they all seemed to be confused or contradictory to each other. Anyway that is all for now.

2 besee………..This is a good writing by Ireanues  you posted and i agree with it also. God said he created all the world and everything in it “along” and by “himself” two things, alone meaning no one was there with him and myself meaning no one was helping him. These people have so twisted up scriptures they can't even understand that simple point. It doesn't even seem to bother them to twist up God”s very Words themselves .

And as if that weren't bad enough they change words in scriptures to mean something they simply do not mean like the Word “Word” in John 1:1 to read Jesus,  trying desperately to remove GOD'S WORDS FROM HIM and transfering the GOLRY of GOD to A MAN (Jesus) and it doesn't even phase them at all to do that. Even Trinitarian Scholars know you can't use John 1:1 as a proof text for Jesus being mentioned in it wordings.

Anyway i am Glad God has brought you to this site maybe you can better help as most here have grown tired of what i continually say to them. Mabe some new light will help them. I hope so.

Peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 08 2012,19:53)

Verse 9:  Was God Himself coming into the world?[/quote] Mike Yes, The one and only God YHVH was coming into the world, as he is the light which John spoke about, the light was coming into the world, but the only way that he could do that was through his own Holy Spirit. That is why Jesus said that God was IN HIM and yet also IN HEAVEN! That is also why Jesus is HERE but also IN HEAVEN through the eternal spirit.

2besee………..Apsolutely right on brother. God has reavealed this truth to you, God and His words are Spirit and were (IN) Jesus , just like he can be in us all “that God maybe in “all” and “through “all.

peace and love to you and yours………………………………….gene

[kerwin]

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 09 2012,03:01)

'Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US' Oops, what you gonna do now? His name was Jesus and in that name of Jesus we are saved.

2besee,

I have no disagreement on this matter but I believe it is wise to use a more correct verb form when speaking on these matters and English spell of the Greek version of Jesus' name is still Jesus.

A name encompasses who you are and Jesus is both God's salvation and God with us.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 16 2012,23:27)

then give me a version that says OMG in john 20.28 boy LOL

Take it up with the JWs, jammin. I never said I believed what they believe about Thomas, did I? In fact, if your memory was not so short, you might remember me taking your side about this subject in the “Word” thread about two or three months ago.

I was merely explaining WHY (most probably) the JWs have “God” in 20:28, and “god” in 1:1 and 1:18. It's because THEY believe Thomas was addressing both Jesus and Jehovah in 20:28.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2012,13:40)

A name encompasses who you are and Jesus is both God's salvation and God with us.

Is Jesus truly God Almighty, Kerwin? Your wording sounds like you think he is.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 17 2012,08:13)

Even Trinitarian Scholars know you can't use John 1:1 as a proof text for Jesus being mentioned in it wordings.

Why not just work it backwards from John 1:14, Gene?

In verse 14, we learn that someone who John called “the Word” became flesh, and dwelled on earth with the glory only Jesus could possibly have had.

So then, who else could that “Word” have been? Who else EVER dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son?

The Word did. So who must that Word be?

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2012,11:08)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 16 2012,23:27) then give me a version that says OMG in john 20.28 boy LOL Take it up with the JWs, jammin.  I never said I believed what they believe about Thomas, did I?  In fact, if your memory was not so short, you might remember me taking your side about this subject in the “Word” thread about two or three months ago. I was merely explaining WHY (most probably) the JWs have “God” in 20:28, and “god” in 1:1 and 1:18.  It's because THEY believe Thomas was addressing both Jesus and Jehovah in 20:28.

that is just your excuse boy LOL

the truth is, you cant give me any single version that says OMG in john 20.28
poor mike.

john 20.28 talks about Christ. he is Lord and God.
read the NWT, thomas said to him. my Lord and my God!

that is very clear.
the JW are confused boy. is that the father? the NWT said to “HIM”

who is that HIM? is that the father??/ poor mike LOL

that is Christ! they are confused! LOL

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2012,07:39)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2012,13:40) A name encompasses who you are and Jesus is both God's salvation and God with us. Is Jesus truly God Almighty, Kerwin?  Your wording sounds like you think he is.

Mike,

Jesus and Joshua the English spellings of the same name as spoken in two different languages, the first Greek and the second Hebrew. That name when interpreted to English is God'sSalvation or something similar.  

God'swithus is also a phrase used in the Old Testament  many times and there simply means God is with us in our endeavors.  In the New Testament we are also taught God is in us through his Spirit.

Those who believe Jesus is God because God dwells in him through his Spirit are deceived.

Jesus, a human, is in God and Jehovah is in Jesus,the Son of God's Spirit.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2012,12:43)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 17 2012,08:13) Even Trinitarian Scholars know you can't use John 1:1 as a proof text for Jesus being mentioned in it wordings. Why not just work it backwards from John 1:14, Gene? In verse 14, we learn that someone who John called “the Word” became flesh, and dwelled on earth with the glory only Jesus could possibly have had. So then, who else could that “Word” have been?  Who else EVER dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son? The Word did.  So who must that Word be?

Mike ……….That Word is God who is Spirit, he was “in” the flesh man Jesus when are you going to admit that Mike? Don't believe me, believe what Jesus said many time, that God was “in him.

peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene

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