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Quote (2besee @ May 07 2013,03:24) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2013,15:25) Quote (2besee @ May 04 2013,23:03) When I look at the Hebrew and the Greek, I click on the words on biblos.
I do that too, 2B. But you've already been shown that the transliterated words, in and of themselves, can be misleading.There is more to understanding the words than just reading the transliterations and definitions. You need to learn WHY the word just says “run”, but it means “SHE runs”.
You won't learn that without tapping into the knowledge of those who know these things.
You would be surprised what you can come to learn when you only trust God.
And what makes you think it ISN'T God who has led ME to MY understanding of scriptures, since I DO trust Him?
Let's do a little exercise, 2B.
1. A spirit tells you that the Word is the Holy Spirit Son of God. You THINK this spirit that told you this thing is God's Holy Spirit. What next?
2. We are told to TEST the spirits, right? So what exactly do we test them AGAINST?
3. The scriptures, of course. So, now you are setting out to test what that spirit told you, to see if it is true according to the scriptures. Here is your first scripture:
4. ειπεν αυτοις ο ιησους αμην αμην λεγω υμιν πριν αβρααμ γενεσθαι εγω ειμι
5. Now 2B, WITHOUT the help of Google translator, and WITHOUT the help of any man, or any writing of any man, tell me if the above Greek scripture SUPPORTS your understanding, or REFUTES it. What does the spirit tell you, 2B?
Quote (2besee @ May 07 2013,03:24) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) BTW, you didn't answer my question. Did you learn to read and write from the Holy Spirit? Or from men? From men, but the Holy Spirit also knows His own from when they are born, they are God's because God knows everything, before it happens.
And, I did answer your question.
I gave the verse that we have no need for anybody to teach us, because the Holy Spirit teaches us all things.
Well, if that was you answer before, then your answer today REFUTES your answer from before. At first, you quoted a scripture that says we have no need for anybody to teach us, but then today you seemed to admit that you DID have a need for MEN to teach you how to read and write.So which is it?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 06 2013,22:19) Because the term sons of God is used there that does not say “Angles” that's you personal interpretation to that scripture.
Gene,Who exactly do YOU think these “sons of God” were?
Quote (kerwin @ May 06 2013,22:27) Mike, I believe man is created a little lower than either the Messengers of righteousness or of evil. Temptation is a message whispered in a man's mind.
Hi Kerwin,I would like a DIRECT answer to the following question:
Do you believe it was Jesus' “human nature MIND” that was offering him the kingdoms of the world, and asking him to do an act of worship to it?
Or do you believe it was an actual BEING called “Satan”?
Which one, please.
Quote And what makes you think it ISN'T God who has led ME to MY understanding of scriptures, since I DO trust Him? Hi Mike, you misunderstood me.
I was talking about bible commentaries, and how much we can actually learn without them, that is all.
Okay, we are all different, I will stop!
Quote (kerwin @ May 08 2013,01:08) Quote (2besee @ May 07 2013,16:10) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 07 2013,17:41) Abe and 2besee and whoever is interested………if you can go back in the Satan thread and read what Jodie wrote she was right in what she posted IMO. Peace and love to you all………………………..gene
Hi Gene.
I have always believed that Satan is a being. But apparently, the Jews do not believed that.
Quote:
“Satan is a character that appears in the belief systems of many religions, including Christianity and Islam. In Judaism “satan” is not a sentient being but a metaphor for the evil inclination – the yetzer hara – that exists in every person and tempts us to do wrong.”
That was from About.Com
One thing is for certain, whatever you or I believe Satan to be or not to be, when you “Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”
As is usual though, the words “He will flee from you” is not in the Greek!
I don't know.
I grew up fearing Satan due to a very Catholic parent, but, I do not now.Fear God.
2beesee,That information is not totally correct. Wikipedia seem to be a better tertiary source on the matter.
Kerwin, you are right.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 07 2013,21:06) To All……….I am more inline with the Jewish understanding of our human Nature inclination, that is working in all flesh beings and must be overcome as we come in alinement with God and his Words, and his commandments. The spirit of ha-satan is one of the spirits of God, it acts as a “questioning” Spirit , it may be “one” of the Sprit councils of God, It causes us and God to “question” things, and is therefore called the spirit of an Advasery. In the Case of Job “IT” counciled God to question Jobs loyality to him. But God already knew what he had to do to Job to correct his thinking IMO, but he used that Sprit to bring about his will in Jobs life, for Job's ultimate Good. It was how God delivered Job from a bad future he was heading for. God knew all along what he was going to do to Job, that is why it was not ha-satan that brought up the subject of Job but God. :”have you consider my servan Job”: This adveserial Spirit was not able to get to Job, because God had put a shield around him and “IT” could not effect him.
But the problems were in the making in Job , His personal “rightious” integeratory would have produced a mindset of (SELF) Rigthiousness in him, it was already doing that as the dialog with his three frinds shows, so God willing to Save Job , dealt with his Problem of (self) rightiousness. SoGod humbled him and in this way delivered Job. IMO
No scripture say ha-satan is a angle of any kind, that is something man has come up with, IMO
peace and love to you all……………………………………………….gene
Gene,I believe if I looked into the matter the progressive Reformed Jews would be the Jews about.com was speaking of. Some of the more progressive Jews believe that same thing about the Messiah.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2013,04:38) Quote (kerwin @ May 06 2013,22:27) Mike, I believe man is created a little lower than either the Messengers of righteousness or of evil. Temptation is a message whispered in a man's mind.
Hi Kerwin,I would like a DIRECT answer to the following question:
Do you believe it was Jesus' “human nature MIND” that was offering him the kingdoms of the world, and asking him to do an act of worship to it?
Or do you believe it was an actual BEING called “Satan”?
Which one, please.
Mike,Yes, there is the Satan,
I believe the Satan is a name in Hebrew.
The Satan is used a few times in Scripture.
Someone bears the name of the Satan.
The name of those that bear the fruits of the Satan spirit are satan. There chief is the Satan. He is an angel as angel satans bear the messages of evil, which is temptation.Even Gene's words describe the Satan.
To all………My Words describe a “SPIRIT”, a type or Kind of Intellect, which gives us Cognate thoughts and “IT'S” Nature, they are not not a Personal being as Mike and others think. Spirits are Not Persons they are what is “IN” Persons. There “existence” is complete different then ours they are capable of entering and cohabiting with a Person who is a Being , but they are not beings as we know what beings are. And the word ha-satan in Hebrew is the word for Adversary, and that “SPIRIT” can be “IN” anyone and if “IT” is actively working in them then, who every is being led by “IT” is also an adversary or satan . Jesus called the Pharisees the Children of the DEVIL (diabilo) Greek or ha-satan Hebrew, why because “IT'S” the Spirit (intellect) of a advasary (ha-satan) that was working “IN” and “Through” them. But non of that made them actuarial satan “beings” why because Satan is not a “being ” “IT” is the Spirit (intellect)of an adversary which “works “IN” the children of disobedience”, We are called the Children of God not because we or Jesus is a God, big or little God , but because the “SPIRIT” of God abides “IN” us, “IT” imputs and gives us the Cognate awareness and thoughts of God to us, so we then, are able to think and act as He does, with his nature “IN” us. It just that simple, if the Spirit of a satan “adversary” is working in a Person, who i , and i believe the dictionary call a “being” , then they will follow “IT'S” Nature and act accordingly. We all must Master it and overcome it as Jesus did in the wildrness, Remember what the LORD told Cain “sin lies at the door of you heart and you MUST MASTER IT”. Jesus MaSTERED (IT), this Sprit effecting his human nature, by the Sprit of God in the wilderness.
There is not one scripture that say There is a Satan Angelic Being that i have ever read. at least, if there is i would like someone to show me so i can adjust my thinking, I believe this spirit effects the “Nature” of a Person , Just as God Spirit effect the Nature of a person also. They “SPIRITS” effect our Nature by imputing there own distenct type and kind of Cognate intellect into us. We are all vessels who can receive into us these different “Spirits” and therefore their different Natures are expressed though Us rather good or evil, rather clean or unclean, it all about thinking and that is exactly what Spirit effect in all created “Beings” . God is a composite of SEVEN DISTINCT SPIRITS, and these SEVEN SPIRITS go out into all the earth and effect all created life forms, they are all before the Thornie of YAHWEH our GOD. He sends them forth from there in all the world and they go to and fro throughout out all the earth , and because they are “IN” all created things of GOD. God is living vicariously “IN” and “THOUGH” His creation, these spirit can live both in and out of out God Yahweh's creation. IMO
Personification of a Spirit does not make it a Person, But all Spirit are a Creation of Yahweh, Just as we are and he can considers them his creation also, just as he considers us his creation , I believe the Sons of God is a Metaphor for his distinct spirits he created.
What make us son of God, is it not the Spirit of God in us? , it is not our bodies, because bodies are what (spirits) live in right? But other Spirits can also be added or subtracted to or from these bodied of ours and cohabit with us, So our bodies are like Temples where Spirits can come and go if we open up the door to them. So we need to safe guard these temple we live in and choose what we let in to dwell with Us, we need to test those spirits and see if they are of God before we let them in. I believe God has given to those who have his spirit power to choose what we let in or not, and to cast out Evil and unclean sprits from us. We need to open the door of ourhearts to what is good and close it to the Evil.
Just like our physical home we should not let just any one come in, and open the door to them, and say come on in , why? because they will effect our lives, either negatively or positively ,depends on what kind of persons we are letting in, So it is with Spirits, If we sow into our hearts (let in) the Spirit of God that is knocking at the doors of our hearts we will live, if we reject “IT” we will die, because God want to live with us in our hearts and mind and commune with us and go with us ever where we go and do with us everything we do. know you not your bodies “are” the “TEMPLES” of the LIVING GOD May God come into us all and Make His abode with Us forever and we shall live for ever with him. IMO
peace and Love to you all…………………………………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2013,09:30) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 06 2013,22:19) Because the term sons of God is used there that does not say “Angles” that's you personal interpretation to that scripture.
Gene,Who exactly do YOU think these “sons of God” were?
Mike…….The point is not who i say they are but it is who you are saying they are without any Bible proof. that is the question. Read the above post i think i explains a lot of who i think they are brother.peace and love to you and your……………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 08 2013,21:52) To all………My Words describe a “SPIRIT”, a type or Kind of Intellect, which gives us Cognate thoughts and “IT'S” Nature, they are not not a Personal being as Mike and others think. Spirits are Not Persons they are what is “IN” Persons. There “existence” is complete different then ours they are capable of entering and cohabiting with a Person who is a Being , but they are not beings as we know what beings are. And the word ha-satan in Hebrew is the word for Adversary, and that “SPIRIT” can be “IN” anyone and if “IT” is actively working in them then, who every is being led by “IT” is also an adversary or satan . Jesus called the Pharisees the Children of the DEVIL (diabilo) Greek or ha-satan Hebrew, why because “IT'S” the Spirit (intellect) of a advasary (ha-satan) that was working “IN” and “Through” them. But non of that made them actuarial satan “beings” why because Satan is not a “being ” “IT” is the Spirit (intellect)of an adversary which “works “IN” the children of disobedience”, We are called the Children of God not because we or Jesus is a God, big or little God , but because the “SPIRIT” of God abides “IN” us, “IT” imputs and gives us the Cognate awareness and thoughts of God to us, so we then, are able to think and act as He does, with his nature “IN” us. It just that simple, if the Spirit of a satan “adversary” is working in a Person, who i , and i believe the dictionary call a “being” , then they will follow “IT'S” Nature and act accordingly. We all must Master it and overcome it as Jesus did in the wildrness, Remember what the LORD told Cain “sin lies at the door of you heart and you MUST MASTER IT”. Jesus MaSTERED (IT), this Sprit effecting his human nature, by the Sprit of God in the wilderness. There is not one scripture that say There is a Satan Angelic Being that i have ever read. at least, if there is i would like someone to show me so i can adjust my thinking, I believe this spirit effects the “Nature” of a Person , Just as God Spirit effect the Nature of a person also. They “SPIRITS” effect our Nature by imputing there own distenct type and kind of Cognate intellect into us. We are all vessels who can receive into us these different “Spirits” and therefore their different Natures are expressed though Us rather good or evil, rather clean or unclean, it all about thinking and that is exactly what Spirit effect in all created “Beings” . God is a composite of SEVEN DISTINCT SPIRITS, and these SEVEN SPIRITS go out into all the earth and effect all created life forms, they are all before the Thornie of YAHWEH our GOD. He sends them forth from there in all the world and they go to and fro throughout out all the earth , and because they are “IN” all created things of GOD. God is living vicariously “IN” and “THOUGH” His creation, these spirit can live both in and out of out God Yahweh's creation. IMO
Personification of a Spirit does not make it a Person, But all Spirit are a Creation of Yahweh, Just as we are and he can considers them his creation also, just as he considers us his creation , I believe the Sons of God is a Metaphor for his distinct spirits he created.
What make us son of God, is it not the Spirit of God in us? , it is not our bodies, because bodies are what (spirits) live in right? But other Spirits can also be added or subtracted to or from these bodied of ours and cohabit with us, So our bodies are like Temples where Spirits can come and go if we open up the door to them. So we need to safe guard these temple we live in and choose what we let in to dwell with Us, we need to test those spirits and see if they are of God before we let them in. I believe God has given to those who have his spirit power to choose what we let in or not, and to cast out Evil and unclean sprits from us. We need to open the door of ourhearts to what is good and close it to the Evil.
Just like our physical home we should not let just any one come in, and open the door to them, and say come on in , why? because they will effect our lives, either negatively or positively ,depends on what kind of persons we are letting in, So it is with Spirits, If we sow into our hearts (let in) the Spirit of God that is knocking at the doors of our hearts we will live, if we reject “IT” we will die, because God want to live with us in our hearts and mind and commune with us and go with us ever where we go and do with us everything we do. know you not your bodies “are” the “TEMPLES” of the LIVING GOD May God come into us all and Make His abode with Us forever and we shall live for ever with him. IMO
peace and Love to you all…………………………………………….gene
Gene,I hear you but I also hear you speak of a chief of those angels that bear the fruit of the Satan spirit so I have no idea what you point is.
Quote (kerwin @ May 07 2013,19:13) Mike, Yes, there is the Satan,
I believe the Satan is a name in Hebrew.
The Satan is used a few times in Scripture.
Someone bears the name of the Satan.
The name of those that bear the fruits of the Satan spirit are satan. There chief is the Satan. He is an angel as angel satans bear the messages of evil, which is temptation.Even Gene's words describe the Satan.
Kerwin,You seem to be speaking cryptically. I think you are agreeing with me that Satan is a literal BEING – an angel of God who went bad a long time ago. He is the ruler of the demons – other angels of God who went bad a long time ago.
In other words, Satan and his demons are ANGELS who don't follow their God anymore. Do you agree with me?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 08 2013,09:52) Spirits are Not Persons they are what is “IN” Persons.
In some cases, you are right, Gene. For example, “team spirit” is not a person with a mind and will of its own. The “spirit of friendship” is not a person with a mind and will of its own. A “kind spirit” is not a person with a mind and a will of its own.So you are correct that CERTAIN KINDS OF spirits are not persons.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 08 2013,09:52) There is not one scripture that say There is a Satan Angelic Being that i have ever read. at least, if there is i would like someone to show me so i can adjust my thinking,
Let's see if this one helps:Revelation 12:7
Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.In this verse, doesn't it seem obvious to you that “Michael” must be a BEING, with a mind and will of his own in order to have angels of his own?
Isn't the same thing obvious about “the dragon”? It should be. And who is that dragon?
Revelation 12:9
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.So Gene, how does a “cognate thought”, or whatever, have angels of his own? Do you think abstract spirits, such as “team spirit”, can be the ruler of a bunch of angels?
Or does it take a BEING, with a mind and will of its own, to have a following of angels?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 08 2013,10:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2013,09:30) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 06 2013,22:19) Because the term sons of God is used there that does not say “Angles” that's you personal interpretation to that scripture.
Gene,Who exactly do YOU think these “sons of God” were?
Mike…….The point is not who i say they are but it is who you are saying they are without any Bible proof. that is the question. Read the above post i think i explains a lot of who i think they are brother.
This is what you said in that huge novel: “I believe the Sons of God is a Metaphor for his distinct spirits he created.”So are you saying that God only has seven spirit sons? What then, are the angels? Are they not also sons of God?
Job 38
4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?These “cognate thoughts” can shout, Gene? With what mouths?
Genesis 6:4
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.Were these human woman impregnated by the seven spirits of God?
Abe,
Why so silent all of a sudden?
Okay, I get it. You like Gene and don't want to speak against him. But if you consider him a friend and brother, then don't you owe it to him to tell the truth?
Abe, do you believe Satan is/was an angel of Jehovah?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2013,14:39) Abe, Why so silent all of a sudden?
Okay, I get it. You like Gene and don't want to speak against him. But if you consider him a friend and brother, then don't you owe it to him to tell the truth?
Abe, do you believe Satan is/was an angel of Jehovah?
Hi Mike,Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 08 2013,09:52)
There is not one scripture that say There is a Satan Angelic Being that i have ever read. at least, if there is i would like someone to show me so i can adjust my thinking,2Cor.11:14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
Peace brother..
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 09 2013,04:02) Quote (kerwin @ May 07 2013,19:13) Mike, Yes, there is the Satan,
I believe the Satan is a name in Hebrew.
The Satan is used a few times in Scripture.
Someone bears the name of the Satan.
The name of those that bear the fruits of the Satan spirit are satan. There chief is the Satan. He is an angel as angel satans bear the messages of evil, which is temptation.Even Gene's words describe the Satan.
Kerwin,You seem to be speaking cryptically. I think you are agreeing with me that Satan is a literal BEING – an angel of God who went bad a long time ago. He is the ruler of the demons – other angels of God who went bad a long time ago.
In other words, Satan and his demons are ANGELS who don't follow their God anymore. Do you agree with me?
Mike,Yes you are correct.
Abe……..That scripture is still not Saying Satan is a Angel of any Kind, no matter what “IT”, (that kind of Spirt), is “desguised” as. The words used there in my bible is “TRANSFORMS HIMSELF “AS”, an Angel of Light”. that no way says he “IS” that, or an angel of any kind..
I ask Mike for one Sctipture that Says “Satan is an Angel of anykind. To me ha-satan is a Spirit, Just as all the seven spirts of God are Sprits, they are not angels. but Spirits that imparts types and kind cognate life “IN” Beings there are no Angels that are “IN” beings, only Sprits that are at working “IN” beings. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………..gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 09 2013,09:34) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 08 2013,10:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2013,09:30) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 06 2013,22:19) Because the term sons of God is used there that does not say “Angles” that's you personal interpretation to that scripture.
Gene,Who exactly do YOU think these “sons of God” were?
Mike…….The point is not who i say they are but it is who you are saying they are without any Bible proof. that is the question. Read the above post i think i explains a lot of who i think they are brother.
This is what you said in that huge novel: “I believe the Sons of God is a Metaphor for his distinct spirits he created.”So are you saying that God only has seven spirit sons? What then, are the angels? Are they not also sons of God?
Job 38
4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?These “cognate thoughts” can shout, Gene? With what mouths?
Genesis 6:4
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.Were these human woman impregnated by the seven spirits of God?
Mike………. If you don't believe there are SEVEN Spirits before the Throne of God ,then so be it. If you believe Spirit are Angels so be that also, If you believe angels are what is “IN” people because they are Spirit, so be it also. I chose not to believe angels are Spirit “beings”. But are “beings who have God created Spirits “IN” them and they are sent out to minister to the recepients of eternal salvation.Mike you say those sons of God were angels, shpw us one scripture that says that, or is that just another of your OPINIONS you are pshing here. My bible has no such wording in it, saying the “Angels” of God cohabbited with Daughers of Men , So you must be reading another bible then i am . Or following somemore of your comentaries you use.
Mike, While the morning Star sang together, do stars sing together according to you? they do “right”? or is that a Metaphor and all the sons of God shouted for Joy, So You know who and what is or is not considered a Sons of God You limite God sons as just angels, who you believe are spritis , So do Spirits Shout for Joy according to you they do.
Where it say when we die the “Spirit” goes back to him who gave it. In your mind does this mean an Angel Spirit leaves us and goes back to God? Seeing according to you Angels “ARE” Sprits , Is God himself an Angel becasue Jesus tell us God is a Spirit, according to you he must be an angel because to you an Angel and A Spirit are the same thing, right?
So show the one scripture that say Angles are Sprit “beings” as God must be an Angel also right?, according to your Dogmas. IMO
peace and love to you and your…………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 08 2013,17:42) Abe……..That scripture is still not Saying Satan is a Angel of any Kind, no matter what “IT”, (that kind of Spirt), is “desguised” as. The words used there in my bible is “TRANSFORMS HIMSELF “AS”, an Angel of Light”. that no way says he “IS” that, or an angel of any kind.. I ask Mike for one Sctipture that Says “Satan is an Angel of anykind. To me ha-satan is a Spirit, Just as all the seven spirts of God are Sprits, they are not angels. but Spirits that imparts types and kind cognate life “IN” Beings there are no Angels that are “IN” beings, only Sprits that are at working “IN” beings. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………..gene
Hi Gene,Heb.1:7 And of the angels he says, Who makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Ps.104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
I believe The Seven Spirits of God were created IN the First Day. Then, all things were created THROUGH them.
It looks like the Spirit of God is Heaven.
Is.66:1 Thus says the LORD, “Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool. Where then is a house you could build for Me? And where is a place that I may rest?
Jer.3:17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the Throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the Name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.
“At that time” At Jesus Baptism? Or after his death?
Peace brother..
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