In the Beginning

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ April 02 2013,12:49)

Quote (abe @ April 03 2013,00:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2013,17:40) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,11:40) The fact that Christ is resurrected  from the dead it does not make him the holy spirit ,right ? I'd like to hear Abe's answer as well. Hi T, and Mike, Is.66:8   “Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a    land   be born in one day? Can a    nation   be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her    sons. This word land?   Is the exact same word as Earth. Can the EARTH be born in one day Word Origin a prim. root Definition earth, land NASB Translation common (1), countries (15), countries and their lands (1), country (44), countryside (1), distance* (3), dust (1), earth (655), earth the ground (1), earth's (1), fail* (1), floor (1), ground (119), land (1581), lands (57), lands have their land (2), open (1), other* (2), piece (1), plateau* (1), region (1), territories (1), wild (1), world (3). Does that help to understand? Peace brothers. Abe Could you point out the connection to Christ being the holy spirit by the fact that he was resurrected ?  Thank you Your scriptures you quote have nothing to do with what I have ask

Abe,

I'm not trying to be against you just to be against you, but once again, I agree 100% with Pierre.

You keep posting scriptures that say NOTHING about what we're discussing, and acting as if those scriptures somehow address our points.

They don't.  At least not that Pierre and I can see.

Perhaps you could post just one scripture, ALONG WITH your CLEAR explanation of how exactly you think that scripture addresses the claim that the Holy Spirit is a son of God…….. or the claim that Jesus became the Holy Spirit upon his resurrection.

peace to you, brother

[2besee]

Hi Mike,

Quote

2B, Gene, and Kerwin, do you guys think the Holy Spirit is the “Messiah” that God was to send into the world?  YES or NO?

Isaiah 43:8-11

Bring out the people who are blind, yet have eyes,
who are deaf, yet have ears!
All the nations gather together,
and the peoples assemble.
Who among them can declare this,
and show us the former things?
Let them bring their witnesses to prove them right,
and let them hear and say, It is true.
“You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord,
“and my servant whom I have chosen,
that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
nor shall there be any after me.
I, I am the Lord,
and besides me there is no savior.

[2besee]

Mike,

Quote

So in your understanding, John 1:1 says, In the beginning was PART OF God, and that PART OF God was with God, and that PART OF God was God.?

Yes.

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In other words then, you AGREE with me, Pierre, Kathi, t8, and anyone else with a lick of sense that the “theos” who was WITH “THE theos” in the beginning cannot possibly be exactly the same as “THE theos” he was with?

No. You are saying that in John 1:1 there are two Gods where I am saying that there is one.

Quote

Are we still seeing things eye to eye up to this point?  Because if we are, then you and I will agree that the “theos” in part c – the one who was with “THE theos” of part b – must be something or someone other than “THE ENTIRE BEING OF GOD ALMIGHTY” that it/he was with, right?

No. The Word of God is a part of God and also is God.

Quote

Do you agree with me that “THE god” in part b is our heavenly Father, who is the uncreated cause of all things?   YES or NO?  (Please DIRECTLY and HONESTLY answer this question 2B, Kerwin, Gene, and Abe.)

All (A, B and C) are the one God.

[2besee]

Mike,

Quote

Quote Quote. The holy, pre-existent Spirit, that created every creature, God made to dwell in flesh, which He chose. This flesh, accordingly, in which the Holy Spirit dwelt, was nobly subject to that Spirit, walking religiously and chastely, in no respect defiling the Spirit; and accordingly, after living excellently and purely, and after labouring and co-operating with the Spirit, and having in everything acted vigorously and courageously along with the Holy Spirit, He assumed it as a partner with it. 2B, I will take the writings of this shepherd to task, as time allows, since this writing – not canonized scripture – seems to be the backbone of your argument, and seems to be important to you.

It WAS canonized scripture and was one of the most popular readings in the earliest church.

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First up:  The last line of the above quote seems to be saying that the flesh man Jesus of Nazareth became “a partner” with the “Holy Spirit Son of God”. To me, that sounds like Jesus and the “Holy Spirit Son of God” are now one being, not two.  What say you?

Maybe two but one, or maybe one, I am not quite sure yet.

[2besee]

Quote

Nor has any of you been able to explain to me how the ENTIRE BEING OF GOD ALMIGHTY could have been with the ENTIRE BEING OF GOD ALMIGHTY in the beginning.

Where does it say that the entire being of God Almighty was with the entire being of God Almighty?

[2besee]

Mike,

Quote

Kerwin, you are reaching.  Consider which Son of God dwells in the believers: John 14:23 King James Version Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. So even if you insist that the Son of God was “IN” Paul, it follows the words that JESUS said, right? So I'm not seeing any secret “Holy Spirit Son” message here.

The Greek does not say 'We', but “I” will come and make abode with Him.
The Holy Spirit was sent, and there is only one Spirit, as scriptures say. Not two.

[mikeboll64]

Hi 2B,

Thanks for your answers!    The following question should get us closer to understanding each other:

Do you believe the “theos” in John 1:1b is THE ENTIRE BEING OF GOD ALMIGHTY?  Yes or No?

[2besee]

Hi Mike,

Quote

I assume from the non-answers that we all agree the “God” in John 1:2 is “THE ENTIRE BEING OF GOD ALMIGHTY”. I have but one question regarding this: WHO then is the “he” that was WITH “the entire being of God Almighty”? The “he” could not possibly be “the entire being of God Almighty”, right?  Who then was it?

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep;
and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.
And God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.” – Genesis 1.

Isaiah 55  

The Compassion of the Lord

1 “Come, everyone who thirsts,
come to the waters;
and he who has no money,
come, buy and eat!
Come, buy wine and milk
without money and without price.
2 Why do you spend your money for that which is not bread,
and your labor for that which does not satisfy?
Listen diligently to me, and eat what is good,
and delight yourselves in rich food.
3 Incline your ear, and come to me;
hear, that your soul may live;
and I will make with you an everlasting covenant,
my steadfast, sure love for David.
4 Behold, I made him a witness to the peoples,
a leader and commander for the peoples.
5 Behold, you shall call a nation that you do not know,
and a nation that did not know you shall run to you,
because of the Lord your God, and of the Holy One of Israel,
for he has glorified you.

6 “Seek the Lord while he may be found;
call upon him while he is near;
7 let the wicked forsake his way,
and the unrighteous man his thoughts;
let him return to the Lord, that he may have compassion on him,
and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

10 “For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven
and do not return there but water the earth,
making it bring forth and sprout,
giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater,
11 So shall my word be that goes out from – my mouth –
it shall not return to me empty,
but it shall accomplish that which I purpose,
and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it to do.

12 “For you shall go out in joy
and be led forth in peace;
the mountains and the hills before you
shall break forth into singing,
and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.
13 Instead of the thorn shall come up the cypress;
instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle;
and it shall make a name for the Lord,
an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.”

[2besee]

Quote

Hi 2B, Thanks for your answers!   The following question should get us closer to understanding each other: Do you believe the “theos” in John 1:1b is THE ENTIRE BEING OF GOD ALMIGHTY?  Yes or No?

Hi Mike.

The Word is a part of God Almighty, just as your Word and your Spirit is a part of You. (As I have said before!)

[2besee]

Gene, thank you for your post!

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ April 02 2013,19:25)

The Greek does not say 'We', but “I” will come and make abode with Him.

The Greek word is written in the first person PLURAL, 2B.  That means “WE”.

Quote (2besee @ April 02 2013,19:25)

The Holy Spirit was sent, and there is only one Spirit, as scriptures say. Not two.

If there is literally only one spirit, then the spirit of the antichrist is also the Holy Spirit.  And your spirit is the Holy Spirit.  And Satan's spirit is the Holy Spirit.  And so on.

[2besee]

Mike, I understand Abe's verses. You need to really pay attention, or you may miss something.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ April 02 2013,19:33)

Quote Hi 2B, Thanks for your answers!   The following question should get us closer to understanding each other: Do you believe the “theos” in John 1:1b is THE ENTIRE BEING OF GOD ALMIGHTY?  Yes or No? Hi Mike. The Word is a part of God Almighty, just as your Word and your Spirit is a part of You. (As I have said before!)

Yes or No, 2B?

[2besee]

Hi Mike.

Quote

If there is literally only one spirit, then the spirit of the antichrist is also the Holy Spirit. And your spirit is the Holy Spirit. And Satan's spirit is the Holy Spirit. And so on.

Ephesians 4 and 1Cor 6:17,12:13, etc.

Reply to your other posts later when I get some mor etime, okay. Thanks.

[2besee]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 03 2013,14:35)

Quote (2besee @ April 02 2013,19:33) Quote Hi 2B, Thanks for your answers!   The following question should get us closer to understanding each other: Do you believe the “theos” in John 1:1b is THE ENTIRE BEING OF GOD ALMIGHTY?  Yes or No? Hi Mike. The Word is a part of God Almighty, just as your Word and your Spirit is a part of You. (As I have said before!) Yes or No, 2B?

Mike, The Word is not the entire being of God Almighty but a part of God Almighty.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ April 02 2013,19:34)

Mike, I understand Abe's verses. You need to really pay attention, or you may miss something.

Pierre and I also understand those verses just fine, 2B.  We're just not seeing where they say the Holy Spirit is a son of God, or where they say Jesus became the Holy Spirit upon his resurrection.

Perhaps you could point out which exact words in those verses teach us these things?

Also, didn't you just say that you don't know if Jesus and the “Holy Spirit Son of God” are now one, or two?  So if you're not even sure of the doctrine you insist on ramming down our throats, how can you be so impatient with us?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ April 02 2013,19:40)

Mike, The Word is not the entire being of God Almighty but a part of God Almighty.

Very good. So, if the “theos” in part b DOES refer to the entire being of God, and the “theos” in part c DOES NOT refer to the entire being of God – we have a case where the two “theos” are referring to DIFFERENT things, right?

That sounds reasonable – especially considering that one was “with” the other, right?

So now, whether you like it or not, it seems we agree that “THE theos” was with someone/something that was not entirely “THE theos”, right?

Are we good so far?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ April 02 2013,19:38)

Hi Mike. Quote If there is literally only one spirit, then the spirit of the antichrist is also the Holy Spirit.  And your spirit is the Holy Spirit.  And Satan's spirit is the Holy Spirit.  And so on. Ephesians 4 and 1Cor 6:17,12:13, etc.

Let me reword these as questions:

Is the spirit of the antichrist the Holy Spirit? YES or NO?

Is your spirit the Holy Spirit? YES or NO?

Is Satan's spirit the Holy Spirit? YES or NO?

[abe]

Quote (terraricca @ April 02 2013,10:49)

Quote (abe @ April 03 2013,00:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2013,17:40) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,11:40) Why are you turning the table on me………… you do not answer the question ,but go on as if my questions becomes yours Agreed. Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,11:40) The fact that Christ is resurrected  from the dead it does not make him the holy spirit ,right ? I'd like to hear Abe's answer as well. Hi T, and Mike, Is.66:8   “Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a    land   be born in one day? Can a    nation   be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her    sons. This word land?   Is the exact same word as Earth. Can the EARTH be born in one day Word Origin a prim. root Definition earth, land NASB Translation common (1), countries (15), countries and their lands (1), country (44), countryside (1), distance* (3), dust (1), earth (655), earth the ground (1), earth's (1), fail* (1), floor (1), ground (119), land (1581), lands (57), lands have their land (2), open (1), other* (2), piece (1), plateau* (1), region (1), territories (1), wild (1), world (3). Does that help to understand? Peace brothers. Abe Could you point out the connection to Christ being the holy spirit by the fact that he was resurrected ?  Thank you Your scriptures you quote have nothing to do with what I have ask , But they are good scriptures but it seems you do not understand them , And if you do please explain them to me ,

Hi T,

18But be you glad and rejoice for ever in that which I CREATE: for, behold, I CREATE Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

Is.66:8 Can a    nation   be brought forth all at once?

Rom.8:23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for [our] adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

Do you SEE the FIRSTFRUITS they are born from the dead. Abraham, Moses, Elijah, etc. Remnants, Heb.11.

Gal.4:26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.

Remember the Bride? and the Wife?

Any more questions I will be glad to answer you or Mike?

Peace brothers.

[abe]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 02 2013,16:34)

Quote (abe @ April 01 2013,20:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2013,17:40) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,11:40) The fact that Christ is resurrected  from the dead it does not make him the holy spirit ,right ? I'd like to hear Abe's answer as well. Hi Mike, Gal.4:6   Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” Peace. That is a scripture, Abe………… not an answer to Pierre's question. Please answer his question DIRECTLY, because your scripture surely isn't saying that Jesus became the Holy Spirit upon his resurrection.

Hi Mike,

Gal.4:6   Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

Mike you are in complete DENIAL on this verse?
Do you understand that?

Peace brother..

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