In the Beginning

[terraricca]

Quote (abe @ April 01 2013,23:05)

Hi T, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IT IS NOT THE FIRST DAY OF CREATION BUT OF THE NEW CREATION THAT GOD WILL DO FOR THOSE WHO HAVE ENTER INTO THE NEW EARTH AND UNDER THE NEW HEAVEN ,SO IT IS TO COME IN THE FUTURERIGHT SO IT IS TO COME IN THE FUTURERIGHT Has Christ risen from the dead? Peace brother..

Abe

Why are you turning the table on me ,

I notice you do this often why ?

And you do not answer the question ,but go on as if my questions becomes yours .funny you would do that

The fact that Christ is resurrected from the dead it does not make him the holy spirit ,right

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 31 2013,20:12)

There is nothing difficult here Mike.

There is also nothing that says the Holy Spirit of God is God's Son, Gene. When you find a scripture that DOES say that – hit me up, okay?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (abe @ Mar. 31 2013,20:49)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2013,12:09) I'm not sure why, Abe.  If the entire being of Mike is a creation, then it stands to reason that the hand OF Mike is also a creation – since it is a part OF the entire being of Mike, right? So, if the entire being of God Almighty is NOT a creation, but has always existed, then it likewise stands to reason that all parts OF that eternally existing being have also existed from eternity, right? I don't think it's logical to assume that only certain parts of God existed from eternity, while other parts of Himself were created at a later time, do you? And since I believe the Holy Spirit OF God to be a part OF the entire being of God Almighty, I likewise believe that the Holy Spirit part of God has existed for as long as the entire being of God has existed. Hi Mike, Wisdom OF God,  Word of God, Son of God, Power of God, You have no problem excepting these terms, but Spirit of God you cant except?  Odd? Peace brother.

I don't understand, Abe.

Are you unable to see the difference between “the son of Mike” and “the spirit of Mike”?

One of them is an independent being, completely separate from the being of Mike. The other one isn't.

Understand?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2013,10:58)

Given that is the Son in Paul, as written of in Galatians 1:16, Jesus or the Spirit? Galatians 1:16 King James Version (KJV) 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Galatians 1:16 NET ©
to reveal his Son in 1  me so that I could preach him among the Gentiles……….

Footnote #1 says:
Or “to me”; the Greek preposition ἐν (en) can mean either, depending on the context.

Consider these translations:
NLT ©
Then he revealed his Son to me……..

MSG ©
Now he has intervened and revealed his Son to me……..

NRSV ©
to reveal his Son to me………

Kerwin, you are reaching.  Consider which Son of God dwells in the believers:
John 14:23 King James Version
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

So even if you insist that the Son of God was “IN” Paul, it follows the words that JESUS said, right?

So I'm not seeing any secret “Holy Spirit Son” message here.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2013,11:10)

Mike, 1) The Son is a metaphor of the Spirit's relationship to Jehovah as there is but one God. 2) Jesus being the Son is also a metaphor of his relationship to Jehovah.

Kerwin,

1) There is no hint in any scripture that God's Holy Spirit is considered or called His “son” – metaphorically or literally.

2) Jesus is not the “metaphoric” Son of God. He is literally God's firstborn.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,11:40)

Why are you turning the table on me………… you do not answer the question ,but go on as if my questions becomes yours

Agreed.

Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,11:40)

The fact that Christ is resurrected  from the dead it does not make him the holy spirit ,right ?

I'd like to hear Abe's answer as well.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2013,19:07)

It's time to move on with John 1………….. 2 He was with God in the beginning. Okay, first we must decide who exactly the “God” is in this verse.  I vote that the one called “God” is “THE ENTIRE BEING OF GOD ALMIGHTY”. Does anyone here disagree with me on this point?  Speak now, or forever hold your peace.  If no one voices their disagreement by tomorrow, I will assume we all agree.

I assume from the non-answers that we all agree the “God” in John 1:2 is “THE ENTIRE BEING OF GOD ALMIGHTY”.

I have but one question regarding this:

WHO then is the “he” that was WITH “the entire being of God Almighty”?

The “he” could not possibly be “the entire being of God Almighty”, right? Who then was it?

[abe]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2013,17:21)

Quote (abe @ Mar. 31 2013,20:49) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2013,12:09) I'm not sure why, Abe.  If the entire being of Mike is a creation, then it stands to reason that the hand OF Mike is also a creation – since it is a part OF the entire being of Mike, right? So, if the entire being of God Almighty is NOT a creation, but has always existed, then it likewise stands to reason that all parts OF that eternally existing being have also existed from eternity, right? I don't think it's logical to assume that only certain parts of God existed from eternity, while other parts of Himself were created at a later time, do you? And since I believe the Holy Spirit OF God to be a part OF the entire being of God Almighty, I likewise believe that the Holy Spirit part of God has existed for as long as the entire being of God has existed. Hi Mike, Wisdom OF God,  Word of God, Son of God, Power of God, You have no problem excepting these terms, but Spirit of God you cant except?  Odd? Peace brother. I don't understand, Abe. Are you unable to see the difference between “the son of Mike” and “the spirit of Mike”? One of them is an independent being, completely separate from the being of Mike.  The other one isn't. Understand?

Hi Mike,

How about the word of Mike?

Peace brother.

[abe]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2013,17:40)

Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,11:40) Why are you turning the table on me………… you do not answer the question ,but go on as if my questions becomes yours Agreed. Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,11:40) The fact that Christ is resurrected  from the dead it does not make him the holy spirit ,right ? I'd like to hear Abe's answer as well.

Hi Mike,

Gal.4:6 Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

Peace.

[abe]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2013,17:37)

Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2013,11:10) Mike, 1)  The Son is a metaphor of the Spirit's relationship to Jehovah as there is but one God. 2)  Jesus being the Son is also a metaphor of his relationship to Jehovah. Kerwin,   1)  There is no hint in any scripture that God's Holy Spirit is considered or called His “son” – metaphorically or literally. 2)  Jesus is not the “metaphoric” Son of God.  He is literally God's firstborn.

Hi Mike,

Rom.8:9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him

Acts16:7 and after they came to Mysia, they were trying to go into Bithynia, and the Spirit of Jesus did not permit them;

Phl.1:19 for I know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayers and the provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

1Pet.1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Peace.

[abe]

Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,09:40)

Quote (abe @ April 01 2013,23:05) Hi T, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IT IS NOT THE FIRST DAY OF CREATION BUT OF THE NEW CREATION THAT GOD WILL DO FOR THOSE WHO HAVE ENTER INTO THE NEW EARTH AND UNDER THE NEW HEAVEN ,SO IT IS TO COME IN THE FUTURERIGHT SO IT IS TO COME IN THE FUTURERIGHT Has Christ risen from the dead? Peace brother.. Abe Why are you turning the table on me , I notice you do this often why ? And you do not answer the question ,but go on as if my questions becomes yours .funny you would do that The fact that Christ is resurrected  from the dead it does not make him the holy spirit ,right

Hi T,

Gal.4:26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.

Is.65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18But be you glad and rejoice for ever in that which I CREATE: for, behold, I CREATE Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

Gal.4:26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.

Is.66:7 “Before she travailed, she brought forth; Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy.
8″Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her sons.
9″Shall I bring to the point of birth and not give delivery?” says the LORD. “Or shall I who gives delivery shut [the womb]?” says your God.
10″Be joyful with Jerusalem and rejoice for her, all you who love her; Be exceedingly glad with her, all you who mourn over her,

Rom.8:22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for [our] adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

Heb.12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of [the] righteous made perfect,

Peace brother..

[abe]

Quote (abe @ April 01 2013,18:33)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2013,17:21) Quote (abe @ Mar. 31 2013,20:49) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2013,12:09) I'm not sure why, Abe.  If the entire being of Mike is a creation, then it stands to reason that the hand OF Mike is also a creation – since it is a part OF the entire being of Mike, right? So, if the entire being of God Almighty is NOT a creation, but has always existed, then it likewise stands to reason that all parts OF that eternally existing being have also existed from eternity, right? I don't think it's logical to assume that only certain parts of God existed from eternity, while other parts of Himself were created at a later time, do you? And since I believe the Holy Spirit OF God to be a part OF the entire being of God Almighty, I likewise believe that the Holy Spirit part of God has existed for as long as the entire being of God has existed. Hi Mike, Wisdom OF God,  Word of God, Son of God, Power of God, You have no problem excepting these terms, but Spirit of God you cant except?  Odd? Peace brother. I don't understand, Abe. Are you unable to see the difference between “the son of Mike” and “the spirit of Mike”? One of them is an independent being, completely separate from the being of Mike.  The other one isn't. Understand? Hi Mike, How about the word of Mike? Peace brother.

Hi Mike,

I should of been more specific?

Quote)
Wisdom OF God,  Word of God, Son of God, Power of God,
You have no problem excepting these terms, but Spirit of God you cant except?  Odd?

Word of God Son of God

Is the Word of God? God? Or the Son of God?
Is the Wisdom of God? God? Or the Son of God
Is the Power of God? God? Or the Son of God

You have no problem accepting these terms as being the Son of God. But you cant see Spirit of God as the Son of God?

Rev.5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

Do I have to prove to you the power, is the Spirit of the Lord?

Is.11:2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him, The spirit of wisdom and understanding, The spirit of counsel and strength, The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD

Peace..

[abe]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2013,17:40)

Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,11:40) Why are you turning the table on me………… you do not answer the question ,but go on as if my questions becomes yours Agreed. Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,11:40) The fact that Christ is resurrected  from the dead it does not make him the holy spirit ,right ? I'd like to hear Abe's answer as well.

Hi T, and Mike,

Is.66:8 “Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her sons.

This word land? Is the exact same word as Earth.

Can the EARTH be born in one day

Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
earth, land
NASB Translation
common (1), countries (15), countries and their lands (1), country (44), countryside (1), distance* (3), dust (1), earth (655), earth the ground (1), earth's (1), fail* (1), floor (1), ground (119), land (1581), lands (57), lands have their land (2), open (1), other* (2), piece (1), plateau* (1), region (1), territories (1), wild (1), world (3).

Does that help to understand?

Peace brothers.

[terraricca]

Quote (abe @ April 03 2013,00:13)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2013,17:40) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,11:40) Why are you turning the table on me………… you do not answer the question ,but go on as if my questions becomes yours Agreed. Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,11:40) The fact that Christ is resurrected  from the dead it does not make him the holy spirit ,right ? I'd like to hear Abe's answer as well. Hi T, and Mike, Is.66:8   “Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a    land   be born in one day? Can a    nation   be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her    sons. This word land?   Is the exact same word as Earth. Can the EARTH be born in one day Word Origin a prim. root Definition earth, land NASB Translation common (1), countries (15), countries and their lands (1), country (44), countryside (1), distance* (3), dust (1), earth (655), earth the ground (1), earth's (1), fail* (1), floor (1), ground (119), land (1581), lands (57), lands have their land (2), open (1), other* (2), piece (1), plateau* (1), region (1), territories (1), wild (1), world (3). Does that help to understand? Peace brothers.

Abe

Could you point out the connection to Christ being the holy spirit by the fact that he was resurrected ? Thank you

Your scriptures you quote have nothing to do with what I have ask ,
But they are good scriptures but it seems you do not understand them ,

And if you do please explain them to me ,

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 02 2013,07:37)

Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2013,11:10) Mike, 1)  The Son is a metaphor of the Spirit's relationship to Jehovah as there is but one God. 2)  Jesus being the Son is also a metaphor of his relationship to Jehovah. Kerwin,   1)  There is no hint in any scripture that God's Holy Spirit is considered or called His “son” – metaphorically or literally. 2)  Jesus is not the “metaphoric” Son of God.  He is literally God's firstborn.

Mike,

There is but you choose to deny it. That is your choice.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (abe @ April 01 2013,20:33)

Hi Mike, How about the word of Mike?

I would depend, Abe. If we were just speaking about words that I spoke, then that is all they are: WORDS THAT I SPOKE. There is no secret meaning there. My words are not me. They are not a part of my being. They are simply things I say.

On the other hand, if I was the King of Abyssinia, and had a spokesman who bore the title “Kal Hatze” (the word of the king), then we would have to decide from the context whether “the word of Mike” was referring simply to words I had spoken, or to my spokesman, who was called “the Word of Mike”.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (abe @ April 01 2013,20:39)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2013,17:40) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,11:40) The fact that Christ is resurrected  from the dead it does not make him the holy spirit ,right ? I'd like to hear Abe's answer as well. Hi Mike, Gal.4:6   Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” Peace.

That is a scripture, Abe………… not an answer to Pierre's question.

Please answer his question DIRECTLY, because your scripture surely isn't saying that Jesus became the Holy Spirit upon his resurrection.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (abe @ April 01 2013,21:15)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2013,17:37) Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2013,11:10) Mike, 1)  The Son is a metaphor of the Spirit's relationship to Jehovah as there is but one God. 2)  Jesus being the Son is also a metaphor of his relationship to Jehovah. Kerwin,   1)  There is no hint in any scripture that God's Holy Spirit is considered or called His “son” – metaphorically or literally. 2)  Jesus is not the “metaphoric” Son of God.  He is literally God's firstborn. Hi Mike, Rom.8:9   However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the   Spirit of Christ,   he does not belong to Him. But if anyone does not have the   Spirit of Christ,   he does not belong to Him Acts16:7   and after they came to Mysia, they were trying to go into Bithynia, and the   Spirit of Jesus    did not permit them; Phl.1:19   for I know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayers and the provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, 1Pet.1:11   Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ    which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Peace.

And once again Abe, not one of those scriptures even HINTS at Jesus being the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Christ, the Son of God, has a spirit of his own. Do those scriptures say anything other than that?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (abe @ April 02 2013,12:01)

Is.11:2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him……………………..

On who, Abe? Who will the Spirit of Jehovah rest on? His firstborn Son Jesus Christ, right?

Doesn't that right there tell you that God's Son is one thing, and the Spirit that RESTS ON him is something else?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,15:11)

Mike, There is but you choose to deny it.

Then show me just ONE scripture that you think says the Holy Spirit is a son of God.

Post the scripture, and WHY you think it says what you think it says. And we can discuss whether or not that scripture really says what you think it says – or if you're just reaching.

THEN, if there are other scriptures, we can do the same “one at a time” thing with them as well.

Ready, set, GO!

[Author]

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