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To Mike and all,
Galatians 1:16
King James Version (KJV)16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Is it the man Paul or the Son in him that cries Abba, Father?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 30 2013,23:43) Well I'm glad to see you're addressing me personally again – instead of asking Gene what I think. 
Kerwin, the question makes no sense. Proof read it and see if you can correct it.
Mike,I used a singular noun and then a plural pronoun to represent it which is poor grammar.
I could of added some words to be more literal instead of leaving them inferred. Scripture often chooses to infer things.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 30 2013,01:01) Gene, Is it believer or the Son that is in him that cries Abba, Father?
What is Mike's answer?
To all,Corrected.
Quote (2besee @ Mar. 29 2013,16:09) 1Cor 2:11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
Matthew 11:27
All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
1 John 2:14
I write to you, dear children, because you know the Father.John 8:19
Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.”John 14:9
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.2B, it seems to me that the ones to whom Jesus revealed the Father also know the Father. Are all of the apostles and disciples also the “Holy Spirit Son of God”, because they too know the Father?
Not to mention that this “proof” you offer doesn't even align with the understanding you claim to have. For example, you claim that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are TWO DIFFERENT sons of God. And for your current “proof” to work, it must be the “Holy Spirit Son of God” who said the words of Matthew 11:27. Yet we know from scripture that it was Jesus who said those words.
Do you see how your point fails on many fronts? First, Jesus said that OTHERS (the ones to whom he makes the Father known) also “know the Father”. And surely they cannot ALL be “the Holy Spirit Son of God”, right?
Secondly, it was JESUS who said those words – not “the Holy Spirit Son of God”, right?
Quote (2besee @ Mar. 29 2013,16:12) John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Doesn't say one single thing about the Holy Spirit being the Son of God.Quote (2besee @ Mar. 29 2013,16:14) 2 Cor 3:17 We all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
You could use this one…………. IF you believed that Jesus and the Holy Spirit were both one and the same “Son of God”.But you don't believe that, do you?
Quote (2besee @ Mar. 29 2013,16:16) Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.
Doesn't say one single thing about the Holy Spirit being the Son of God.Quote (2besee @ Mar. 29 2013,16:18) Galatians 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”
(The Holy Spirit was sent)
See my recent response to Kerwin on this same verse.Quote (2besee @ Mar. 29 2013,16:23) John 14:15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
John 14:18
“I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
These verses say that:1. The Holy Spirit will be sent.
2. Jesus will also be with them – as he was with Paul.
Acts 26
14 We all fell to the ground, and I heard a voice saying to me in Aramaic, ‘Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’15 “Then I asked, ‘Who are you, Lord?’
“ ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied.
Many times in scripture, JESUS talked to Paul. And many times in scripture, Paul was led by the Holy Spirit of God. But nothing about this would imply that these two things were interchangeable – or that they were the same thing.
Instead it proves that the Holy Spirit was sent as promised. AND Jesus was also with them, helping them, as he promised.
Quote (2besee @ Mar. 29 2013,16:25) Mat 12:32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Doesn't say one single thing about the Holy Spirit being the Son of God.Quote (2besee @ Mar. 29 2013,20:55) 1Cor 12: 4-12 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.
For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slavesd or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.
Doesn't say one single thing about the Holy Spirit being the Son of God.Quote (2besee @ Mar. 29 2013,21:09) John 14:23.
(Greek)Answered Jesus and said to him, if anyone love me, the word of me he will keep, and the Father of me will love him, and to him I come, and an abode with him will make.
http://biblos.com/john/14-23.htm
http://biblesuite.com/greek/2064.htmJohn 14:16
'And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever'.
John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
John 14:18
I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
Asked and answered. Doesn't say one single thing about the Holy Spirit being the Son of God.Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 30 2013,11:48) To Mike and all, Galatians 1:16
King James Version (KJV)16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Is it the man Paul or the Son in him that cries Abba, Father?
Is WHAT the man Paul or the spirit?
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 30 2013,11:57) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 30 2013,01:01) Gene, Is it believer or the Son that is in him that cries Abba, Father?
What is Mike's answer?
To all,Corrected.
Kerwin,The words, “is it believer” do not make any sense.
Your line of questioning doesn't make sense to me. Why not just tell us what YOU think those scriptures are teaching?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2013,00:29) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 30 2013,11:48) To Mike and all, Galatians 1:16
King James Version (KJV)16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Is it the man Paul or the Son in him that cries Abba, Father?
Is WHAT the man Paul or the spirit?
Mike,It is better that you figure out the answer than I give it to you. The man is equivalent to flesh and blood. There is the man Paul and there is the Son that is in him. Is it the flesh and blood Paul that calls Abba, Father or is it the Son within that man that calls Abba, Father?
I am using Paul as a type of believer and so my questions are really one.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2013,06:29) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 29 2013,08:15) So can't you see in a real “SENSE” the Holy Spirit can be call the son of GOD, if it “DWELLS “in YOU then you are made a Son of GOD by that Sprit Dwelling in you.
Gene,I think you are saying that the Spirit of God can METAPHORICALLY be called “the son of God” in the way that wisdom can METAPHORICALLY be said to have “children”.
But there is no scripture that metaphorically calls the Spirit of God His son, right?
Besides, I don't think that is what 2B is saying. I believe he is saying that the Spirit of God is LITERALLY God's firstborn son.
So it seems you are unable to answer my very first two questions of this exercise. You are unable to produce any scripture that clearly explains to us that the Spirit, even METAPHORICALLY, is ever called “the son of God”, or is even DESCRIBED AS a son of God.
And you are unable to give a credible explanation as to how something can be with God at the same time that it is the very God it is with.
You guys have got to do better than this. We're only on verse 1, and already you're stumped. Hmmmmm…………..
Hi Mike,Yes, the Shepherd of Hermas WAS CALLED CANON until they decided to get rid of it. It was referred to as Canon by the early church fathers such as Irenaeus and others including Origen and was read in the early churches, and in it the ETERNAL Son of God is the Holy Spirit while Jesus was a man.
So there is your proof! That, and scripture.
By the way, they did not get rid of Hermas due to it's chirstology, but because of its attitude toward sin and repentance, which I think they considered a little too harsh.
The early church had no problem with it's christology, with the Holy Spirit being the Son of God and Jesus being a man who became one with the Holy Spirit. This has become foreign today because Logos Christianity has taken over. it was not foreign to the earliest church though.
Quote:
Journal of Pentecostal Theology.
Spirit Christology,
Myk habetsEarly Christianity exhibited a robust Spirit Christology that utilized the concept of Spirit in a rather flexible fashion. Today many are returning to this model for a way forward.
Propositions for the recovery of the ancient paradigm of Spirit Christology have been advocated across the theological spectrum. This includes at least twenty-eight authors, representing more than thirty works written over the past forty years…
http://www.academia.edu/1038850/Spirit_Christology_Seeing_in_Stereo
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2013,06:38) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 29 2013,12:06) Galatians 4:6
King James Version (KJV)6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
And how does this one say the Spirit of God is the Son of God? Think it out: If the Spirit that God sent forth was the spirit of the “Holy Spirit/Son of God”, then the verse would be saying that the Holy Spirit of God has a spirit of its own – one that was sent forth by God.Do you believe that the Holy Spirit of God has its own spirit that can be sent forth from God?
Neither of these scriptures teaches that God's Holy Spirit is His Son, Kerwin.
This is simple to understand Mike. The Father sent the Spirit of the Son. The Father sent the Holy Spirit. Son=Holy Spirit. You make things far too complicated.Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 31 2013,06:57) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 30 2013,01:01) Gene, Is it believer or the Son that is in him that cries Abba, Father?
What is Mike's answer?
To all,Corrected.
Kerwin, I believe it is the Spirit of the Son (Holy Spirit) and our own Spirit that cries “Abba Father”.'And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”
'Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.' Romans 8:26
And there is only one spirit sent (Ephesians 4 and 1Cor 6:17,12:13, etc)
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