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Kathi: The moon moves counter clockwise around the earth, that is west to east, not east to west. The science sites were right.
Even the one that had the earth rotating clockwise so the progression of the shadow looked more natural? 🙂 I realize that in your model, the moon orbits the earth in the same direction that the earth rotates. But we never see the moon go across the sky from west to east, because the earth allegedly rotates counter-clockwise faster than the moon orbits the earth counter-clockwise. So from our perspective, the moon is really moving across the sky from east to west – like the sun does. So in the time it would have taken the moon to pass the sun in its counter-clockwise orbit around the earth, the earth itself would have rotated in the same direction must faster. And because of this, just as the moon appears to move east to west above us due to the faster rotation of the earth, the shadow from the moon seemingly should have done the same. There are other problems with solar eclipses – like the idea that any object can cast a shadow smaller than itself from one light source – but let’s let this one go for now and focus on the posts I made yesterday.
Kathi: Also, the pneumbra is a partial shadow. The light of the moon on the eclipse is refracted light in the pneumbra.
You’ll have to walk me through that one.
Kathi: I hope you have a Happy Father’s Day tomorrow!
Why thank you. I hope you do the same, slaving over your husband and treating him as a king – as God intended from the beginning. 😀
miia: Hi all, how is this flat earth topic going? I read your post replies to me about a week ago Mike and Dig, but haven’t had a chance to respond. Not even sure what page they’re on. Sincere apologies. And I did read them, thank you.
It’s going slowly. D4T and I are chomping at the bit to bring up a bunch more evidence, but are holding back because of the resistance we’re getting from the first few things we’ve presented. Heck, we’re still talking about whether or not the sun was really created on day four, like the scriptures clearly teach. How can we move on to gyros when we can’t even get an honest answer on whether or not we’d be able to see a 737 with the naked eye at 369 miles up in the sky? How can we move on to solar eclipses when we can’t even get closure on the impossibility of the moon eclipsing from the top down? How can we move on to discussing the impossibility of a pressurized atmosphere existing adjacent to a near perfect vacuum when we can’t come to an agreement on the undeniable fact that we can see thousands of objects that would be hidden behind the curvature if the earth was in fact a ball 25,000 miles in circumference?
So yeah… it’s been very slow-moving and often times frustrating.
But hey, I just made my video on Superstition Mountain last night. It’s only 1:23 long, so check it out…
I’m going to do one with T8’s photo of Mount Ruapehu next. His will make more of an impact, because of the greater distance.
Take care…
T8: Stumbling blocks…
D4T: Firstly, there are many that are turning to God because of the realization of where we live and how the “powers to be” have lied to us. Here is a video with many testimonies about it…
I spent an hour making a great response to T8’s post… but just before I hit “SUBMIT”, I started to think that these philosophical meanderings are how he’s been avoiding the hard questions from the beginning of this thread. When he’s facing direct questions that he doesn’t know how to answer, he just makes another long post about how, philosophically, the heliocentric model makes our God even greater and produces more Christians, or whatever. And then I make the mistake of addressing his philosophical musings, and the next thing you know, we’re off and running on everything philosophical – while completely neglecting the direct scientific and scriptural questions that I asked him.
So while I’m glad that you addressed it, and used one of the points I was going to use (that flat earth has brought non-believers TO the scriptures after realizing that the scriptures had it right all along), I’m also glad that I deleted my response before posting it. Now maybe T8 will address the last six posts on page 117 for me. I doubt it, because they are hard points that he doesn’t want to deal with… but at least I’m not the one giving him an out this time.
(Btw, I have your video saved to my “Podcasts” playlist, and will listen to it on the way home from my folk’s house later today.)
Mike,
you said:
But we never see the moon go across the sky from west to east,…
I saw it go from west to east when it passed in front of the sun during the solar eclipse.
Mike,
This was just about my vantage point when the total solar eclipse happened…take a look that the moon moved from right to left, west to east. I was just a tad north of there.
https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/in/usa/cleveland-tn?iso=20170821
Mike, I cannot answer everything right away. Obviously it takes time to accumulate knowledge right? So I answer what I can and from what I have read. If the answer comes easy, I tick that box first. I know there have been a few questions asked multiple times. I probably have not answered them fully because I don’t know the full answer, but I have added in my 2 cents worth for now. Seriously, I am not about avoiding answers. I am about finding the truth. Further, I have watched heaps of Flat Earth videos lately to understand the full theory, and have equally watched debunk videos to counter. To expect that I could answer everything myself is putting too much faith in my ability. Remember that all these videos took lots of time to make and for the authors to come to their conclusions. So I stand on their shoulders to further speed up any answers I can provide.
That said, I have performed some experiments myself and the marble on the table experiment at first looked to be true, till I realized that one degree off, and of course part of the marble was hidden. It showed me how disingenuous that video was because when I lined up both ends of the table perfectly, the marble was visible the whole time. Surely the guy who made the video must have known this. And videos of smaller vessels this side of the horizon, that is simply deception or just really bad science.
My conclusion so far is there is way too much evidence for the heliocentric globe earth model to dismiss and it is way too extreme to say it is all a conspiracy theory. Imagine how many people for example patrol the Southern Ocean to stop would be visitors to Antarctica. It is greater than the coastline of the Americas I think. Just huge. And not one of these patrol personnel have come forward and told the world of the conspiracy and zero videos of photos to prove this. Unbelievable.
As for the Flat Earth argument so far, there is little direct evidence, just a bunch of videos and photos that say this should not be possible on a globe earth if there is zero moisture in the atmosphere with little or no science to explain how that proves a Flat Earth. I find that there are fair rebuttals to all the Flat Earth points, but just need to find the remaining answers. Many for me have already been answered.
Southern Ocean objections to Flat Earth and other facts
This video conveniently speaks about objections I have made in this topic. Glad to see these Flat Earth objections raised and debunked.
Please ignore the insulting language and concentrate on the points being made. I disagree with the tone of the video, but agree that it is factual regarding the questions and science.
Kathi: I saw it go from west to east when it passed in front of the sun during the solar eclipse.
I think that, according to your model, your position on earth rotated from west to east, giving the appearance that the moon was moving across the sun west to east. Like driving down the highway and observing a water tower move left to right across the face of a distant mountain, when really it is just a parallax effect of your position changing in relation to the water tower.
Anyway, let’s hold this for later if you don’t mind. I want to hear any rebuttal/comments to my Gen 1:20 post, and continue with the top-down eclipse thing before moving on.
Hey D4T, what great testimonials in that video of how discovering flat earth led new agers and alien believers to accepting Christ as their Savior! Fantastic stuff… thanks for sharing.
T8: Mike, I cannot answer everything right away…
Allow me to stop you right there… before you go off on yet another long diatribe of things you keep repeating or post yet another “everything flat earth debunked” video. In the first of my posts that you ignored on page 117, I presented you with a GIF of what is called the “lunar wave”, or “lunar pulse”. Did you see it? What do you think it could be? (“I don’t know” is an acceptable answer.)
Then, in that same post, you told me that my claim that the moon is its own light was a “desperate answer”. I pointed out that it is the scriptural answer. What is your response to that? Because it either IS the scriptural answer, or it’s NOT. Which one?
Then there was this exchange…
Mike: Jehovah told us that He created two lights – the greater to govern the day, and the lesser to govern the night.
T8: There you go being literal again and assuming that which is not written.
Mike: Which part of my blue words above is not written?
What is your answer to that very simple question?
So here’s how easy it would be for you to address that first post…
- Did you see the lunar wave GIF I posted? YES/NO.
- What do you think it is? I DON’T KNOW.
- Is the claim that the moon is its own light a scriptural one? YES/NO.
- Which part of my blue words are not written in scripture? SOME OF THEM ARE NOT/ALL OF THEM ARE NOT/NONE OF THEM ARE NOT
So with just 10 words, you could address that entire post. And you don’t have to have a PhD in flat earth or secular cosmology to do so. So please, for the love of God, give me the answers I’m asking for, and demonstrate that you are not just another Nick or Gene – both of whom post mindless tripe, but run away and hide when asked a simple straightforward question.
Gene: Miia, were all traveling along a straight line 100 miles an hour trying to find the drop off point of DIG AND MIKES flat earth, there seem to be no drop off point so far.
This is the best smoke and mirrors show heaven net has ever had, in my opinion, LOL’.
Ah, so you are still alive, huh? I assumed maybe you were sick or something when you didn’t answer my simple question after making bold statements about your prowess in mathematics. Here it is again…
Gene, SHOULD we be able to see the Statue of Liberty from 60 miles away on a ball earth… according to your math? YES or NO is all we need from you… unless you want to add more.
Hey T8, would you mind posting your Mount Ruapehu image once more, and leaving the file attached?
Hi Mike.
Here is a tip on how to recover a full sized image from the forum. When you post an image, it takes the full image and makes a number of copies at different sizes. This is for the purpose of choosing the best size when adding it to your post. Here is what you do:
- Right click on the image in Windows and choose ‘Copy image address’ or ‘Open image in new tab’. You will get the following:
https://heavennet.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/IMG_8786-1000x667.jpgwhicjh is a smaller version. - Then, strip out the obvious image dimensions in the URL which in this case is the 1000×667 part. You need to get rid of the – character too, as that is used to join the image number and dimensions part of the URL. You would then get this:
https://heavennet.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/IMG_8786.jpg - Enter the new URL into the browser address bar and you will see the original file and you can save from there.
Another method (I think) is to attach another file somewhere, and it seems that your attachments will reappear in the first post. Is that correct though? I am not 100% sure how you accumulated all attachments in the first post, but you would know.
The final method is to make a post and using ‘Add Media’, repost the image and in that window you get the choice to ‘Link to” and choose ‘Media file’.
🙂
Mike,
you said:
I think that, according to your model, your position on earth rotated from west to east, giving the appearance that the moon was moving across the sun west to east.
I wasn’t moving…my family went early to a campsite and set up camp around a picnic table and stayed there specifically to watch the whole event. You’re theory is not at all so. Do you not believe that the moon moved in front of the sun? The crickets came out as if it were dusk and then it was completely dark like the middle of the night but it was only around 1:30 pm or so, the moon as it faced earth was completely dark, i.e. NO LIGHT on the face of the moon.
Regarding Gen 1:20, I believe you can see that there are a few words to choose from for each Hebrew word so you can’t dogmatically make a case for one word over the other. You cannot say that it doesn’t say what the NASB says. You must admit that there are other possibilities. Look at all the ways it is translated:
New International Version
And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.“English Standard Version
And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.”Berean Study Bible
And God said, “Let the waters teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the sky.”New American Standard Bible
Then God said, “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.”King James Bible
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.Christian Standard Bible
Then God said, “Let the water swarm with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky.”Holman Christian Standard Bible
Then God said, “Let the water swarm with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky.”International Standard Version
Then God said, “Let the oceans swarm with living creatures, and let flying creatures soar above the earth throughout the sky!”NET Bible
God said, “Let the water swarm with swarms of living creatures and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky.”New Heart English Bible
And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of sky.” And it was so.GOD’S WORD® Translation
Then God said, “Let the water swarm with swimming creatures, and let birds fly through the sky over the earth.”JPS Tanakh 1917
And God said: ‘Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let fowl fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.’New American Standard 1977
Then God said, “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.”Jubilee Bible 2000
And God said, Let the waters bring forth great quantities of creatures with living souls and fowl that may fly above the earth upon the face of the firmament of the heavens.King James 2000 Bible
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that has life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.American King James Version
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that has life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.American Standard Version
And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.Douay-Rheims Bible
God also said: Let the waters bring forth the creeping creature having life, and the fowl that may fly over the earth under the firmament of heaven.Darby Bible Translation
And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living souls, and let fowl fly above the earth in the expanse of the heavens.English Revised Version
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and let fowl fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.Webster’s Bible Translation
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.World English Bible
God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of sky.“Young’s Literal Translation
And God saith, ‘Let the waters teem with the teeming living creature, and fowl let fly on the earth on the face of the expanse of the heavens.‘Out of all those translations, it looks as if only one leans towards what you want it to say. The majority of the translations do not support your view.
Please address both of these two points before the lunar eclipse is discussed further.
Kathi: Out of all those translations, it looks as if only one leans towards what you want it to say.
Yeah… the literal one! 🙂 Kathi, let’s reason together…
- Do birds fly where the sun, moon, and stars are? No.
- Did God create the sun, moon, and stars and place them in the firmament? Yes.
- Therefore, do birds also fly IN the firmament? Of course not.
Any version that says the birds fly in/before/under/against the face of the firmament is a proper translation.
Btw, here’s the NKJV’s translation…
Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.”
Well done, NKJV translators. 🙂
Oh, I just saw the Douay-Rheims translation on your list…
God also said: Let the waters bring forth the creeping creature having life, and the fowl that may fly over the earth under the firmament of heaven.
So now there’s three of them, including Young’s Literal.
Mike said:
Allow me to stop you right there… before you go off on yet another long diatribe of things you keep repeating or post yet another “everything flat earth debunked” video. In the first of my posts that you ignored on page 117, I presented you with a GIF of what is called the “lunar wave”, or “lunar pulse”. Did you see it? What do you think it could be? (“I don’t know” is an acceptable answer.)
Then, in that same post, you told me that my claim that the moon is its own light was a “desperate answer”. I pointed out that it is the scriptural answer. What is your response to that? Because it either IS the scriptural answer, or it’s NOT. Which one?
If that is legit, it could be interference of some kind. Interference takes place in the atmosphere. Could also be the video software. I know in Youtube for example, you can stabilize videos, but that does lead to a glitch or jump in the video sometimes. Could be heatwave between the camera and moon or maybe it is similar to the background radiation you see on an old TV set. You often saw that effect when you stared at it long enough which I use to do as a kid. I kinda thought those fuzzy dots where something significant in some way and found out later in life that was caused by background radiation.
As for the moon, yes your answer is desperate because a large body that reflects light is still a light. It doesn’t have to be the source of the light to be a light. Example, Jesus is the light of the world and all he has is sourced in the Father. We are the light of the world and we are not the source of that light. Sad that some of that light would teach a flat earth though.
Light travels and you only see it once it has reached your eyes. The moon is a source of light in the sense that if it were not there, you would not see that light from the sun. And guess what. The sun comes from God. God is the source of all things. Yet we can be light.
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