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T8: So your saying my basic premise is correct, but I need to consider that NZers and Argentinians only see a small percentage of the outer disk.
I’m saying that even if the entire outer edge of the disk lit up at once, very few people would see it. And anyone seeing it would simply be looking south from their location – in the direction the southern auroras are already known to happen. For example…
Everybody’s looking south and seeing the auroras. In their minds, they’re all seeing the auroras over the continent of Antarctica – at the “bottom” of the ball earth. Imagine we took the map above, and folded it over a ball, keeping the North Pole top center. The outer ice ring would then come together at the bottom, forming a big ice continent. On a ball, these people would all be looking south towards the ice continent at the “bottom” of the ball earth. But left as is, they’re still all still looking south – but in very different directions compared to each other. On the flat earth, north is dead center, and south is the entire wall surrounding the disk.
I think it would have been detected by now if the so-called south had 1000s to millions of more auroras than the north. Just another fantastic unlikely thing you need to believe in the Flat Earth model. I believe the overwhelming weight is in the corner of a Globe Earth. You have to discard so much science, information, and experience to write it all off.
You point to a narrow experience of auroras in my part of the world due to two small pieces of populated land seeing a small portion of them. However, the Southern Ocean is fished and boats sail all along here, especially Japanese fishing boats. With the areas they cover, you would think they were in almost perpetual aurora at night, however, in reality they are perhaps lucky to see one per voyage. Further, we have sailors that sail around the world each year in a competition called the Volvo Ocean Race. Not only do these boats take videos of their journey, but they sometimes sail as far south as possible to shorten the route. Given the navigation equipment and technology used on these yachts, I imagine they too must be part of the conspiracy otherwise how could they be so mistaken. Believe me, every advantage to win is taken but weighted against risk. Here is a 360 degree view.
The Flat Earth is not really up for debate for most people just as the existence of Madagascar is not really up for debate. However, I feel that if Madagascar didn’t exist, you would need a conspiracy as large as the one that hides a flat earth from us.
For me personally, what is up for debate is the nature of reality. I find this absolutely fascinating and there are so many unanswered puzzles, that it gets your mind racing to explain it. I believe however, belief in God gives you an edge in coming up with explanations.
T8: I think it would have been detected by now if the so-called south had 1000s to millions of more auroras than the north.
You’re not really thinking this out, dude. If you are looking south from NZ and see an aurora, you see THE southern lights. If I am in Argentina at the same time, looking south and seeing an aurora, I’m seeing THE southern lights. If someone else could look south and see an aurora from Madagascar at the same time, they’d be seeing THE southern lights. And we’d all actually be seeing THE southern lights. It’s just that instead of this one aurora being limited to a small circular area surrounding Antarctica, it is a huge circular ring surrounding the entire earth. Get it? Still just the ONE aurora, but a large ring instead of a small circle.
T8: I believe the overwhelming weight is in the corner of a Globe Earth.
That’s interesting, since you have yet to provide one piece of evidence for the globe that you and I can personally verify – while I’ve already offered three pieces that anyone can verify, and which refute the globe you say has the weight in its corner.
- Can undeniably see MUCH farther than we would be able to if we lived on a ball 25,000 miles in circumference.
- Can undeniably see the moon eclipsing from the top down.
- Can undeniably see full moons in the daytime.
You haven’t addressed even one of those proofs yet, T8. When do you think you might get around to doing that?
Mike: Did you watch the video of the sun being lifted back up from “setting behind the horizon”? Because you didn’t comment on it. Or on the one where the sun shrinks dramatically in size as it “sets” (moves farther away from the observer). Please watch and comment on those, as they were both in direct response to comments you made.
T8: Not yet Mike.
Why not? You keep bringing up the same point that I already addressed in those videos. Here it is in GIF form…
T8: But if you really wanted to prove that the Earth is flat, you could run this experiment yourself with ease. Try doing it with the moon first and if you need further clarification, do it with the sun and video recorder in front of the lense. Given that both emit light or reflect it, you should be able to track it for quite a while after it dissappear from the naked eye.
T8, I don’t know how many different ways I can keep saying this same thing. The sun is not a million times the size of the earth. It is a relatively small spotlight that can only be seen a certain distance… even with a zoom. It has nothing to do with mountains, as we can also watch it disappear out of our view over an ocean. It’s not going over a curve, but simply getting too far away from us for our eyes to see it anymore. The second GIF above should make that clear. And the first one should make it clear that it doesn’t disappear over a curve, because we can zoom it back up into the sky.
This will help you out dramatically… but only if you invest the 7 minutes to watch it.
T8: As for the point you’re trying to make above… why can’t we see every single star in the entire heliocentric universe?
All the stars we see are sun’s and a few are planets in our galaxy. Andromeda galaxy is so distant that the whole thing appears as one star. But put a powerful enough scope on it and it becomes apparent as to what it is. Of course I realise you would argue that photos of Andromeda are fake.
None of that answers my question. I want to know why I can’t see every single star in the entire universe with my naked eye.
To all FE-ers,
So, I am wanting to know that you FE-ers have seen this post I made but quickly got covered up without anyone acknowledging. It destroys your ideas about the pillars that support the earth.
Hopefully this will shed some light on what it means that the earth has pillars to stand on:
from: http://www.aish.com/sp/pg/48884852.html
Pillars Of Our Mishnah
In our Mishnah, Shimon HaTzaddik declares that the world stands on three things: Torah, service [of God], and acts of human kindness.
So, the three pillars on which the world stands are:
- Torah
- Service
- Acts of human kindness
From what I can tell from looking at the several verses that the FE-ers put up, the language is more poetic than technically scientific. Can you guys at least acknowledge this info. Did you already know this and just dismiss this, or what?
Mike, that was a pretty cool video! Perspective is a testable and repeatable part of physics. You can’t just deny it to support a curved surface. I don’t believe that the stars are as far away as we are told either. That could be one reason why we can’t see all of them.
Thomas Paine, in his so-called “ Age of Reason” says :— “ The two beliefs ”—Modern Astronomy and the Bible—“ cannot be held together in the same mind : he who thinks he believes both has thought very little of either.”
Quoted from The Earth Review 1893
Hi Lightenup, I did see the post. I even went back to test it with Scripture. Unfourtunatly it didn’t hold up as far as I can tell although I’m sure there is a spiritual aspect to it. Sorry I didn’t get back to it sooner.
Job 9:5-7 “It is God who removes the mountains, they know not how, When He overturns them in His anger; 6 Who shakes the earth out of its place, And its pillars tremble; 7 Who commands the sun not to shine, And sets a seal upon the stars;
Psalm 75:2-4 “When I select an appointed time, It is I who judge with equity. 3 “The earth and all who dwell in it melt; It is I who have firmly set its pillars. Selah. 4 “I said to the boastful, ‘Do not boast,’ And to the wicked, ‘Do not lift up the horn;
Both of these references would appear to be about judgment and the pillars tremble. It is unlikely that the Torah would tremble at Hashem’s judgment.
Are there any scriptural references in the Tanach or Brit Hadasha that you can use to support this view?
That’s interesting, since you have yet to provide one piece of evidence for the globe that you and I can personally verify – while I’ve already offered three pieces that anyone can verify, and which refute the globe you say has the weight in its corner.
First off Mike, I think it is great that we can challenge even the most accepted notions in our understanding of the universe and further, if the world did turn out to be flat that would be such a mind bender and would also be quite humorous too. I am not without an open mind to challenge anything even the possibility that you are all AI and I am the only one here experience self awareness. That said, I have to weigh up the total evidence and your three points are not nearly enough to convince me or most people that the Earth is flat. In other words, if I cannot answer your three questions, there is a much higher chance that they do have a logical answer in the heliocentric model that I haven’t understood yet, than having to explain away the massive evidence produced by space travel, satellites, Antarctic explorers & tourists, wireless communication, Hubble telescope, Volvo Round the World Ocean Race, and many other points that escape me right now.
That said, I feel I have addressed one of the points or touched on it. Let’s look at them again.
- Can undeniably see MUCH farther than we would be able to if we lived on a ball 25,000 miles in circumference.
I can trust my own photo so I use that as an example that I know is not fake. It indeed appears to show a 2,797 m mountain that should be half hidden. But the reality is I was standing 248 m and from there I should be able to see the peak and higher. So let’s start with the highest peak at 2797 meters high and work down. I should be able to view around 1000 m directly below the peak right. But what if I told you that the bottom of the mountain was already 600 m above sea level or if you don’t believe in sea level was 353 metres above me (353 + 248 = 600). That would leave around 1000 metres of hidden mountain which is less than first estimated.
But what if I told you that the missing 1000 metres was merely the foreground on my side of the horizon and it just blended into the mountain? We can already see the exaggerated curves and water in the foreground. It appears that 204 k has been pushed together in a short distance by reason of the zooming effect of the lense on my camera. What if the bottom 1000 metres of the mountain was actually way distant from the rest of Ruapehu?
Another option that can be taking place is refraction, the ability to see over the horizon given the fact that light does deflect and bend when passing though moisture or water. I have already noted how light is skewed here sometimes and makes the peninsula look like it has high buildings on there when it predominately low rise structures. How much you can see beyond the horizon is up for debate. Perhaps it is possible to see the extra 1000 m?
I will leave 2) and 3) till later as I don’t have time right now to research and talk about them. I have nothing definite anyway, but feel that I could find the answers much easier than having to subscribe to a conspiracy theory so big it defies belief.
As always bro, we may not agree on everything, but be blessed and be the blessing.
Hey T8, I did a little “expert” analysis on the photos. 🙂 Do you see the same three landmarks/boulders that I have circled? Do you see the same treeline I drew an oval around in each photo? Do you see the same 5 peaks that I do?
Dude, I hate to tell you this again, but I think you’ve taken a picture of the entire mountain from 127 miles away – an impossible feat if we lived on a ball 25,000 miles in circumference. I’m going to post your photo and name all over YouTube! You’re going to be the biggest flat earth hero there ever was! 🙂
I just noticed this post and the one before. I somehow missed this whole page in the topic. Yeah, go ahead and make me famous Mike. A little fame wouldn’t hurt right now. You have full rights to use my image in your video(s). Can’t wait to see the video. Let me know if you do create a video where my photo appears. 🙂
T8….I am glad your not falling for all these FE , CONSPIRACY THEOREST HALF-WITS, THE PROOF OF A ROUND EARTH IS SO OVERWHELMING, IT UNBELIVABLE THEY CAN’T ACCEPT IT. THEY HAVEN’T EVEN SCRATCHED THE THE SURFACE YET IN “PROVING” THE EARTH IS FLAT, AND THERE ARE TOP SCIENTIST WHO CAN DIPROVE EVERYTHING THEY ARE SAYING, just look up proof of a round earth there are m any sites that take in consideration everthing these wack jobs are saying, and disproving every thing the say.
My advice to everyone hear is to go to those sites and listen to what true scientest and mathematicians, astronomers, astronauts, as well as space mission pictures, and movies, from so many satalites, space missions flights, moon landings, space platform pictures. What these people do is try to get you to egnore all real proofs and then jam their half wit ideas on you. I have checked out some of the sites that prove the earth is round and they support it with actual experments and countless findings based on actual provable facts.
These Flat Earthers are like someone saying we do not really have heart beating in us, even though the evidence is being dealt with every day in our lives. The same applies with this earth, we have overwhelming evidence, not just some goofball’s unproven personal opinion. The first thing you do to decieve people is to make them disbieleve sound truth, so you present something that can cause doubt in the person, then when it comes to the actual overwhelming proof that they are unable to disprove, they simply say it some kind of conspiracy, they can’t come up with any true conspiracy, so they invent them, like the RUSSIA AND US “grain deal” so Russia allowed us to fake a moon landing. I was there watching it on my tv when our space craft land and i heard Niel Armstrongs voice and saw the actual pictures sent back to earth. And believe me we were not making any deals at the time with Russia, espically sense we were ready to go to war with them as i recall anyway.
Some ask why am i so upset about this, its because its worldly and of the world, not of the Spirit, and takes up so much time away from what really counts. What did Jesus tell us , “SEEK YOU “FIRST” THE KINGDOM OF GOD, AND “HIS” RIGHTIOUSNESS. Now thats what counts, this FE thi b g is simply a detracting from what counts. IMO
Peace and love to you all and yours…….gene
Hi Gene,
It has nothing to do with the bible though they would try to present it as such.
It is all about delusions that now are fostered by big egos.
It has no place on this site IMO.
Mike, here is a half decent debunking video that has a nice explanation as to how you can see beyond the horizon. It has to do with water and there is a lot of water in my image and lots of other images that show supposedly too distant city skylines and mountains.
Dude, I hate to tell you this again, but I think you’ve taken a picture of the entire mountain from 127 miles away – an impossible feat if we lived on a ball 25,000 miles in circumference. I’m going to post your photo and name all over YouTube! You’re going to be the biggest flat earth hero there ever was!
All things are possible with God right?
Just a short point. We see in scripture descriptions for earth and the heavens. They are from our perspective of course because they are written for us. In reality, it could be a matrix and a bunch of code for all we know. But God who created the heavens is not going to divulge what it really is from where he is. No, he is going to speak to us from our perspective. Just saying that other views that we work out when we use technology that was not available for most of humanity’s existence are not ruled out. Maybe in Heaven itself the physical world and earth is but a virtual world. There are so many possibilities and I wouldn’t rule anything out. The Bible is just not specific enough to rule out other perspectives of reality. But scripture does remind us of this:
“…Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase.“
Does not this scripture explain today. We are obsessed with travelling to and fro and the knowledge we have today is incredible. Those who live in antiquity could hardly imagine the Internet, smartphones, cars, planes, and space exploration. Surely thinking that the world was a disk with a ceiling on top to the earth going round the sun, the sun round the galaxy and there being billions of galaxies would never had entered their mind. But God loves blowing us away. I am in awe at creation from the knowledge we have today. And yet this is also true of our future:
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
Ed: Good seeing you back Mike. I try to
keep posts small so people will read themHey Ed, so have you been following this thread? If not, why not? And if so, have you learned anything yet to make you at least question some of the things we’ve been told?
Hi Mike,
I have seen a lot of this before, it is compelling. Like
the airplane flights in the southern hemisphere. And sunspots
on clouds. And the sun coming at different angles through the clouds…and the six mile canal experiment… ect.
____________
God bless
Ed J- Hi Mike God is good Mike ,I think you really need to grow up God brings us to full grown sons you really can’t believe the earth is flat.. Mike I’m not here to debate with you I don’t really thinks God would want me to waste my time with this kind of non scents ,no read proverbs and the book of John God bless you . The Spirit of God will lead you to knowing the earth is round Good luck bye.
Gene, Nick, have y’all thought about my question about evolution? Neither of you have denied evolution (molecules to man) so I need to ask once again.
Do y’all believe, take on faith, what the scientists tell us about the origin of mankind?
This is directly related to this topic. If we have to take on faith what the scientists say then we can throw out the Bible now.
Please answer the question, I know a lot of people are interested in seeing if you are being consistent in your beliefs.
Your appeal to authority seems to be your biggest argument.
Hi Dig4,
The theory of evolution is contrary to the teaching of scripture.
Unbelievers had to deny the reality of God so gratefully followed Darwin.
The fact that they got it wrong, however, does not justify the flat earth nonsense.
Just another variation on the love of deception by men.
Dig4truth…..Most scientest today, after the descovery of DMA MAPPING, KNOW THE ODDS ARE TO GREAT FOR EVELUTION TO HAVE OCCURED. DARWIN’S THEORY HAS BEEN PRETTY MUCH THROWN OUT THE WINDOW, while NO “PROOF” HAS BEEN FOUND THAT DISPROVES CREATION, BUT TONS OF PROOF HAVE BEEN FOUND and ARE AVAILABLE THAT PROVES THE EARTH IS INDEED ROUND. You don’t even need faith to believe that, tons of proof is available. THE MORE WE LEARN ABOUT OUR EARTH,MOON, STARS, GALAXIES AS WELL AS CREATION itself the clear it all gets. KNOWLEDGE HAS INDEED INCREASED, and theres probably a lot more to come. But going down rabbit holes only detracts of from what is truly important.
I agree with Nick on this FE NONSENSE.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
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