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No man has seen Godat any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.”John 1:18
“… Not that any man [no man] has seen the Father, save he which is of God, he [Jesus Himself] has seen the Father.’”John 6:46
Questions: When did Jesus “see” the Father? I see no indication in the New Testament narratives or Gospels that Jesus at any time “saw” the Father anytime after His birth and before His death, do you? Flesh and blood cannot see God. We know that from John 1:18 from commentary by the apostle John. We know that Jesus saw the devil because He was tempted by him. Did Jesus “see” the Father AFTER His birth when He was flesh and blood? If so, then show me.
No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.”John 1:18
“… Not that any man [no man] has seen the Father, save he which is of God, he [Jesus Himself] has seen the Father.’”John 6:46
Questions: When did Jesus “see” the Father? I see no indication in the New Testament narratives or Gospels that Jesus at any time “saw” the Father anytime after His birth and before His death, do you? Flesh and blood cannot see God. We know that from John 1:18 from commentary by the apostle John. We know that Jesus saw the devil because He was tempted by him. Did Jesus “see” the Father AFTER His birth when He was flesh and blood? If so, then show me. It’s this tp simple for you.
Anthony,
You have to be born of water and Spirit to see God, the flesh does not profit you anything, you must be born again. When it says that flesh and blood do not inherit the Kingdom of God, the context is saying that man himself cannot bring himself to the Kingdom of God. Jesus tells us that you must be born again to enter God’s Kingdom.
That which is of God has seen the Father, what does it mean to SEE the FATHER?
You are saying that it can ONLY mean Jesus had to have pre-existed and been in heaven in God’s literal presence.
Pardon me but this is in fact very narrow minded and it denies what John further says, of which gives us the direct meaning.
Was anyone else begotten of the Spirit without measure?
If the Father is in you, then you can in fact see the Father from within you right?
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Anthony, you don’t think that Jesus having the powers of the Father, that he was not seeing God?
Every word that came out of his mouth Jesus was seeing God, every miracle he performed he was seeing God, it was not his work, he was seeing the Father and the Father’s works being done through him. This is exactly why if you see Jesus you have thus seen the Father.
You are taking the glory out of the experience Jesus must of had, to have the Father in you from the time of the river, he was seeing God at work in himself.
You want to CHANGE this AMAZING GLORY, into a literal act of Jesus seeing God in the past?
What Jesus is speaking of is FAR MORE PROFOUND then that. A human being given God’s Spirit to the measure where Jesus could not only see God, but SEE the works of God being done through him. This is EXACTLY why Jesus said that if we see Jesus we have seen the Father.
I am using John’s words to understand John’s words, you are denying John’s words and being narrow minded so that “some” of John’s words can fit into your pagan doctrine.
Upon Jesus being anointed, sanctified, with God’s Spirit Jesus walked out into the world SEEING the Father with all His glory, His righteousness, and His power, and this sight left him when he died, and it came back when he was risen.
Anthony there is a saying I was blind but now I see. This is not literal but it means to have become aware of something that is true.
When the Spirit came down and Jesus was born of God, He saw God, he was not only filled with the word of God but with the powers of God. No one had seen God before as it says it was the ONLY BEGOTTEN. This begetting is what CAUSED Jesus to see God.
Jesus said unto [Philip]… he that has seen me has seen the Father; and how say you then, ‘Show us the Father’?”
John 14:9
How did Jesus know that He looks like the Father, unless He saw the Father? Again, when did Jesus see the Father?
- Was it after His incarnation?
- Was it after He achieved maturity?
- Was it after His baptism?
- Was it after His ministry began?
And this is life eternal[eonian], that they might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have glorified you on the earth: I have finished the work which you gave me to do. And now, O Father, glorify you me with your own self with the glory which I had with you[Greek, “beside you”]before the world was. John 17:3–5
Now this passage makes perfectly good sense. When did Jesus have that glory with His Father, “the only true God”? When was Jesus beside [para] His Father?
- After His incarnation?
- After He achieved maturity?
- After His baptism?
- After His ministry began?
None of the above. Jesus, as “the Son of God,” had that glory with His Father “before the world was,” when He was with or beside His Father.
you should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in … denying the only Lord [despotas] God, and [denying] our Lord[kurios] Jesus Christ.
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though you once knew this, how that the Lord [kurion, referring to Jesus], having saved the peopleout of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.” Jude 3:5
It would be rather remarkable for the second occurrence of “Lord” (kurion) to refer to something else that is not in context when immediately above it you have “Lord” (kurios) referring to Jesus Christ. Note that Christ was active as “the Rock” when Israel was in the Wilderness:
“all our fathers were under the cloud, and
all passed through the sea; And were
all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did
all eat the same spiritual meat; And did
all drink the same spiritual drink: for they
[all] drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them:and that Rock was [the]Christ [the Messiah].
But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.”
1 Corinthians 10:1–5
They were overthrown “in the wilderness” when the Rock was there present. What was going on there? If the Rock was a metaphor completely, then the Rock itself is a metaphor and it is a metaphor for the Spirit, for the water, which itself is a metaphor because the water came out of the rock and sustained the people physically, and the spirit sustained them spiritually. So you have a metaphor on a metaphor on a metaphor. It gets a little messy after a while. It is meaningless.
However, if Christ was really there as Jude says, and as Paul seems to indicate, then there is no problem. It all makes perfectly good sense. Note what is said in Hebrews:
“For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end; While it is said, ‘To day if you will hear his [Christ’s] voice, …’
For some, when they had heard [Christ’s voice], did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he [Christ] grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness?”Hebrews 3:14–17
It seems to indicate that “He” was grieved and “He”was there. If you put these three passages side by side it seems that you have a reality that is not metaphorical or a metaphor on a metaphor. Metaphors only work when A represents B, not when A represents B represents C represents D. That is meaningless.
Christ was extremely active in the Wilderness period after the Exodus from Egypt
<span style=”color: #800000;”><b>Has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, <u>by</u></b></span> [<i>di,</i> through]<span style=”color: #800000;”><b><u>whom also he</u></b></span> [God]<span style=”color: #800000;”><b><u>made the worlds</u></b></span> [<i>eons,</i>ages]<span style=”color: #800000;”><b>.”</b></span>
- <p align=”right”><span style=”color: #800000;”><i><b>Hebrews 1:2</b></i></span></p>
The term translated “worlds” is the Greek <i>eons</i> which is plural for “ages,” which talk about time. The ages were made by God <u>through</u> the Son. The Father is the <i>eonian</i>God according to Romans 16:26, and not the “everlasting” God as mistranslated by the King James Version. He is King of the <i>eons </i>(Revelation 15:3).
Again, I must ask these same questions: <b><u>When</u></b> were the <i>eons </i>made “<u>through</u>” the Son? If Jesus did not exist until <u>after</u> His incarnation, then <b><u>when</u></b> did He make the <i>eons</i>?Was it after His incarnation, as an infant, or as a young child?Was it after He achieved maturity?Was it after His baptism?Was it after His ministry began
Trying to do this on my phone
Has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by [di, through]whom also he [God]made the worlds [eons,ages].”
Hebrews 1:2
The term translated “worlds” is the Greek eons which is plural for “ages,” which talk about time. The ages were made by God through the Son. The Father is the eonianGod according to Romans 16:26, and not the “everlasting” God as mistranslated by the King James Version. He is King of the eons (Revelation 15:3).
Again, I must ask these same questions: When were the eons made “through” the Son? If Jesus did not exist until after His incarnation, then when did He make the eons?
- Was it after His incarnation, as an infant, or as a young child?
- Was it after He achieved maturity?
- Was it after His baptism?
- Was it after His ministry began?
Anthony. …you or no one can see God except through the eyes of the spirit, if you don’t understand that ,you haven’t even begun to truly understand scriptures, you as the “MANY” WASTING away in the teachings of pagans who worship JESUS AS A GOD.
WE HAVE TOLD YOU THE TRUTH BUT YOU FAIL TO COMPREHEND IT. Jesus said.. “NO” man (CAN) come unto me except the Father draw him”‘ I IS OBIVIOUS that to me you are not of tbe truth our you could clearly understand the truth by what we have presented to you. We (FEW) KNOW THOSE WHO ARE OF GOD, AND THOSE WHO ARE NOT, BY RECONIZING THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH IN THAT PERSON. You have had “three” witiness testifying the truth to you, but you simply are unable to recieve it.
May God have mercy on your soul, when you are judged.
Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
Some deny that Jesus existed before His incarnation. This is necessary for their consistency of message. If Jesus existed before His incarnation then He would be more than just a human being anointed by God. This idea, however, diminishes the concept of Jesus as the Son of God. We need to consider various actions that could only have happened before Christ was incarnated.
“[God] has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by [di, through] whom also he [God] made the worlds [eons,ages].”
Hebrews 1:2
As noted above, the Father created time, the ages, through His Son who existed before Christ (the Son) created time. God also saved us “in Christ Jesus” before the world began. This occurred not just as part of the Father’s plan, but as a reality, with Christ’s being present, agreeing to that plan, and being active in that plan before His incarnation:
“[God] Who has saved us, and called us with an holy calling, … according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began[chronon aionion, before “times eonian”].”
2 Timothy 1:9
Christ was an active agent. More questions: When did God save us and call us? It was done before time itself was created. When was God’s “purpose and grace … given us in Jesus Christ”? It was done before time existed.
“Jesus said unto them, ‘Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.’ Then took they up stones to cast at him.”
John 8:58–59
Jesus existed beforeAbraham. This was not a metaphorical, spiritual, or poetic statement by Jesus. We can know this because of the reaction by His audience. They understood exactly what He said and they reacted violently and wanted to kill Him. He had identified Himself with God and they thought that was blasphemy. This yields more questions to those who deny Jesus existed before His incarnation: When was Jesus “before Abraham”? When did Jesus assume authority of precedence over Abraham?
- Was it after His incarnation, as an infant, as a young child?
- Was it after He achieved maturity?
- Was it after His baptism?
- Was it after His ministry began?
Gene the scripture said that The Lord Jesus did if you can’t see that your blind let me tell you one thing the Spirit of God doesn’t go against the scripture Gene I guess you need the Spirit and the water. In Him Anthony.
Jodi,
Along with my recent post to you, please answer these questions also from May 25th.
I asked:
Who do we all belong to as a son/daughter before we become a son/daughter of God?
Also, please tell me if you understand that the term “firstborn” can apply to the only child in a family and it is not necessary for there to be other children.
Thanks!
Hi Anthony,
You did not realise it was the Holy Spirit that was speaking through Jesus in Jn17?
When you understand this life gets a lot simpler.
Anthony,
Did God make the world through the MAN that died for your sins, and was resurrected as a man being given eternal life?
Did He make the world through the purpose of having perfected men and woman on it?
Did He make the world to show man that they need to have faith in God and that they need His Spirit in order to be made righteous, and once that occurred He would make them a New Heaven, and a New Earth, and fill it with the NEW MAN?
Did He make the world through the MAN that would be the firstfruits of God’s Spirit?
Did He make the world through a PROMISE of Eternal Life to human beings?
Here is an analogy for you,
I knew someday I was going to have a child, so I planned and prepared for this child, all that I did was through the coming of this child. I built a house so that the child could have it’s own room, I painted the room, I built a crib, etc…all that I built I did through the knowledge that my child would come. I promised my family that the child would come, they did not know of the day, but they had faith and joy that the child would indeed come. My child did come and his name was Matthew. Someone came to our house and said wow you have built such a nice house, and I told him I built this house through the knowledge that I would have a son one day and here he is.
Because I built a house through my coming child, that means my child pre-existed, according to your logic Anthony he did. What complete nonsense.
Anthony, the scripture you speak of is talking about the man born of the seed of David, and we know that the man was in FACT a PROMISE that was given to the fathers. We are even told that before God made the world He promised to bring eternal life to mankind.
That eternal life came to us through a man. We are told this man is the firstborn of the dead, that he will be King over a new heaven and a new earth, and other perfected humans will dwell in peace and harmony. If God didn’t have this purpose and plan to lead us to a new heaven and earth with eternal life, He would have never created the world.
When God made the world He did it THROUGH this perfected man that was to come, of whom He would beget on a CERTAIN DAY.
Not only did God make the world through Christ, but He made it through ALL of His coming children that would be raised from the dead, so that God could be all in all and dwell with us.
Anthony you don’t think that God created the world through knowing that He would become All in All?
1 Corinthians 15:7 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put* all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
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