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Quote (terraricca @ June 08 2014,07:22) Quote (942767 @ June 08 2014,00:48) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2014,16:42) Hi ($,
The catholics reason Mary must have been perfect to bear Jesus.
The call her the mother of God and worship her.But Jesus was an overcomer
rev 3.21
The point is that if we are all born in sin because of Adam, then that would include the virgin Mary, right? And if she was tainted as a result of Adam's sin, then Jesus was also affected since she was his mother.She was indeed a virgin when Jesus was conceived in her womb, but she was a sinner just as all of humanity.
We all went astray except for Jesus.
Thank God for him,
Marty
MARTYQuote The point is that if we are all born in sin because of Adam, then that would include the virgin Mary, right? And if she was tainted as a result of Adam's sin, then Jesus was also affected since she was his mother. THIS IS CORRECT, THAT IS WHY MARY WAS CHRIST SURROGATE MOTHER ,JUST TO COVER THE SON OF GOD WITH FLESH ,THAT IS WHAT SURROGATE MOTHERS DO,SINS THE BEING AS ALREADY BE FORM ,THIS IS WHAT THE POWERS OF GOD DID ,
Pierre:If that is what you believe, then I can't even begin to discuss the scriptures with you.
You are starting to talk like a Muslim.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ June 08 2014,06:01) Hi 94,
Only when lusts conceive do men become sinners.
Jesus came to save sinners and all except himself are sinners
Yes, I'll agree with you if that is what you believe.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ June 08 2014,11:28) Quote (terraricca @ June 08 2014,07:22) Quote (942767 @ June 08 2014,00:48) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2014,16:42) Hi ($,
The catholics reason Mary must have been perfect to bear Jesus.
The call her the mother of God and worship her.But Jesus was an overcomer
rev 3.21
The point is that if we are all born in sin because of Adam, then that would include the virgin Mary, right? And if she was tainted as a result of Adam's sin, then Jesus was also affected since she was his mother.She was indeed a virgin when Jesus was conceived in her womb, but she was a sinner just as all of humanity.
We all went astray except for Jesus.
Thank God for him,
Marty
MARTYQuote The point is that if we are all born in sin because of Adam, then that would include the virgin Mary, right? And if she was tainted as a result of Adam's sin, then Jesus was also affected since she was his mother. THIS IS CORRECT, THAT IS WHY MARY WAS CHRIST SURROGATE MOTHER ,JUST TO COVER THE SON OF GOD WITH FLESH ,THAT IS WHAT SURROGATE MOTHERS DO,SINS THE BEING AS ALREADY BE FORM ,THIS IS WHAT THE POWERS OF GOD DID ,
Pierre:If that is what you believe, then I can't even begin to discuss the scriptures with you.
You are starting to talk like a Muslim.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 08 2014,12:11) Hi 94,
It is what James says.
Nso it is true that we are conceived in sin by our parents
N
but nick you have not accepted Christ words that he came down from heaven ,he did not say that he was conceived by a women and so came from his mother womb ,BUT HE SAYS THAT “HE CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN FROM HIS FATHER'S PLACE “
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2014,19:36) Hi MB,
Yes the Spirit of Christ[now known as Jesus Christ] existed in the form of God.
Are you saying the pre-existing “Spirit of Christ” literally BECAME the man known as “Jesus Christ”?If you are, then you are not far from the truth. If you are not, then specify what you ARE saying with those words.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2014,19:36) Men do not come from heaven as they are conceived on earth.
Correct……… they USUALLY don't. Of course, men USUALLY have an earthly father, don't they? Jesus was clearly different than the USUAL man, wasn't he?Why do you think the followers of Jesus freaked out when he told them he came down from heaven?
John 6:42
They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”They didn't understand then, and you don't understand now.
Yet, lack of understanding on the part of you and those followers will never change the fact that Jesus indeed came down from heaven, will it?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2014,19:36) John knew
He said he had TOUCHED the Word
Yes, John knew. He saw Jesus with his own human eyes, and touched Jesus with his own human hands. The Word who became flesh and dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son was indeed Jesus.You are correct that John knew.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2014,19:36) Nobody saw Jesus ascending INTO heaven.
Many disciples saw Jesus ascend to where he was before, ie: heaven.I agree that no human eye saw him REACH that destination, but they surely saw him begin the journey to that place, right?
They saw him ascend ON HIS WAY to heaven, didn't they?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2014,20:04) Hi T,
So they saw him ENTER HEAVEN?
Is that REALLY your argument, Nick?
That they didn't see Jesus REACH his destination?
Where do YOU think Jesus was ascending to when they saw him disappear into the clouds?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2014,20:44) Hi MB,
You say
“And that Jesus was existing in the form of God before he was made into the likeness of a human being “Scripture does not say Jesus
It says Jesus CHRIST.
Yes Nick, scripture says “Jesus the anointed one“.Here is Phil 2, the way YOU want it to be:
Phil 2
5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset asChrist JesusThe Spirit of Christ:6 Who, being in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to be grasped;7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the form of a servant,
being made in human likeness.8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow…….
Was “the Spirit of Christ” made in the likeness of a human being? Did “the Spirit of Christ” humble himself and become obedient to death? Did God exalt “the Spirit of Christ” to the highest place, that at the name of “the Spirit of Christ”, all knees shall bow? Or did “the Spirit of Christ” change his name to “Jesus”?
You SAY a lot of things, but you don't really check to see if those things align with the words of the scriptures.
That's not the way to truth, Nick.
Quote (942767 @ June 06 2014,22:51) Hi Mike: So you stumble at the following:
Quote In John 6, Jesus said, “I came down from heaven……… What if you see me ascend to where I was before?” You know the son of man did ascend into heaven after his resurrection, but how did he come down from heaven? He did not come down as he “son of man” did he? He, his flesh was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary. This is how his body and his soul originated, before this he was foreordained and was with the Father as someone to be manifest to us at a specific point in time to be offered as a sacrifice for the sins of humanity to reconcile all men unto Himself, and it was. His spirit was formed by the Word of God that was with the Father, and was spoken to humanity through him in the time of his ministry on earth, and he obeyed it, the Word of God, without sin unto death on the cross. It was the Father dwelling within him that spoke to humanity. God knew that he would do this from the foundation of the world.
There is scripture to back up these statements.
Love in Christ,
Marty
That's a whole lot of rationalization, Marty……… as usual.The way Jesus came down from heaven was this:
He (THE PERSON) was existing in heaven.
He (THE PERSON) emptied himself and was made as a human being.
Then he (THE PERSON) ascended to where he (THE PERSON) was before.
And you guys are seriously STUCK on the Father speaking through Jesus. You hang on to that teaching for dear life, for by it you think your doctrine is saved.
But there is no way THE FATHER said the words of John 6:38, Marty.
A “fore-ordination from God” does not have HIS OWN will.
A “plan in the mind of God” does not have HIS OWN will.
So it was a PERSON who came down from heaven to do the will of God, instead of his own will. Who was that PERSON, Marty?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2014,02:22) Hi 94,
James puts it another way.
jas 1
Our own lusts conceive and give birth to sin
Notice how “conceive” and “give birth” are akin to each other, Nick.Normally, a person is only “conceived” once, and “given birth to” once.
But are there exceptions to being given birth to only one time? YES.
Yet you say the same is not true of “conceived” – even though they are inter-connected.
Quote (gadam123 @ June 07 2014,05:50) You can see how brother Nick argues here that no human can exist in heaven prior to his birth. This is the simple logic. If at all Jesus was existing as some being in heaven prior to his birth he could not have been real human like you and me. This is the argument I, Gene and few others point out here.
But God can make sons of Abraham out of STONES, Adam. Would you tell God that they are not REAL human beings, just because they used to be stones?So you can see that your argument is null and void.
Quote (gadam123 @ June 07 2014,05:50) He is not 'a god' or demi-god or smaller god like few of us think here.
And yet SCRIPTURE says he is. (Isaiah 9:6, Hebrews 1:8, etc.) Who is right? YOU? Or SCRIPTURE?Quote (gadam123 @ June 07 2014,05:50) The words he(Jesus) spoke were not his own but God in Spirit speaking to the audience as narrated in John's Gospel.
Yet we know that “God in Spirit” is NOT the one who said He was sent down from heaven to do “His own will” INSTEAD OF doing “His own will”, right?So the idea that you guys can just attribute the words of Jesus that you DON'T like to God, simply doesn't work, Adam.
The teaching of John 6 is that a person came down from heaven to do God's will instead of his own will. And the will of God who sent that person was that the person not lose any of those God gave him.
Who is the PERSON to whom God gave 12 human souls – with the command to not lose any of them – except for the one bound for destruction? (John 17, esp. verse 6)
Because that is the PERSON who came down from heaven to follow that command from God.
Adam, surely you are able to see that every single stumbling block you've posted to me has been crushed by the scriptures themselves. You keep inventing reasons why this or that “can't be” – but all those reasons are solidly vanquished by the words of the scriptures themselves.
And all that leaves you with is YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING that it makes “more sense to you” for Jesus to have been nothing but an ordinary human being like the rest of us.
And I keep telling you:
Proverbs 3:5
Trust in Jehovah with all your heart ,and lean not on your own understanding…..Translation: “Mike, I can't actually refute the things you've posted, so to tell you that you don't have the Spirit is the best I can do.”
Nick, I tell Charles in the “Word” thread that the Son of God isn't the God he is the Son of. And I show him many scriptures that make it clear that Jesus is not God Almighty.
Charles, lacking any intelligent response, tells me that I can't see the “truth” that Jesus is God Almighty because I think in natural terms, and don't have the Spirit.
Is Charles right, Nick? Is it true that Jesus IS the God he is the Son of, but you and I just can't “see the truth” because we are lacking Spirit?
And if not, is this kind of a “rebuttal” worth the paper it is written on?
Think on these things.
Hi MB,
You see it was the Word that saidI PROCEEDED FORTH AND CAME FROM GOD
BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS I AM
The WORD WAS GOD not IS GOD
OH! Then you are of the same school as Wakeup, teaching that something which USE TO BE God Himself became a different thing that is NO LONGER God Himself, huh?
Does God ever change, Nick? Can something that WAS God become something that is “not-God”?
Did “GOD” proceedeth forth from “GOD”?
Show me in scripture.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2014,03:02) Quote (942767 @ June 06 2014,22:51) Hi Mike: So you stumble at the following:
Quote In John 6, Jesus said, “I came down from heaven……… What if you see me ascend to where I was before?” You know the son of man did ascend into heaven after his resurrection, but how did he come down from heaven? He did not come down as he “son of man” did he? He, his flesh was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary. This is how his body and his soul originated, before this he was foreordained and was with the Father as someone to be manifest to us at a specific point in time to be offered as a sacrifice for the sins of humanity to reconcile all men unto Himself, and it was. His spirit was formed by the Word of God that was with the Father, and was spoken to humanity through him in the time of his ministry on earth, and he obeyed it, the Word of God, without sin unto death on the cross. It was the Father dwelling within him that spoke to humanity. God knew that he would do this from the foundation of the world.
There is scripture to back up these statements.
Love in Christ,
Marty
That's a whole lot of rationalization, Marty……… as usual.The way Jesus came down from heaven was this:
He (THE PERSON) was existing in heaven.
He (THE PERSON) emptied himself and was made as a human being.
Then he (THE PERSON) ascended to where he (THE PERSON) was before.
And you guys are seriously STUCK on the Father speaking through Jesus. You hang on to that teaching for dear life, for by it you think your doctrine is saved.
But there is no way THE FATHER said the words of John 6:38, Marty.
A “fore-ordination from God” does not have HIS OWN will.
A “plan in the mind of God” does not have HIS OWN will.
So it was a PERSON who came down from heaven to do the will of God, instead of his own will. Who was that PERSON, Marty?
No, Mike:That is pure speculation. The scripture does not say how he was in heaven prior to being born into this world, only that he came down from heaven, and he said that he was going to ascend where he was before, and I have already told you how the scriptures state that he came down from heaven.
Neither does the scripture state where he was when you say that he emptied himself. The Apostle Paul was teaching the church about humility in these scriptures, and Jesus is our example in all thing as to how we should be as God's children.
Love in Christ,
Marty
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