Firstborn of/over all creation

Participant

you say:

Quote

It does not say , the most high

But the scripture that you quoted states:

Lk 1:35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you.

June 3, 2014 at 3:57 am#386621

Participant

Quote (942767 @ June 03 2014,09:49)

you say:

Quote

It does not say , the most high

But the scripture that you quoted states:

Lk 1:35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you.

Yes it does ,

But it does not say , of the highest , this is what I wanted to say, but per ups you are using another bible version

June 3, 2014 at 11:58 pm#386788

Blocked

Quote (942767 @ June 02 2014,21:39)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2014,14:20)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2014,21:05)

Hi MB,
So you are the one that can tell when SENT INTO THE WORD means one thing and not another.

Well, did Jesus send those disciples into the world in the likeness of sinful flesh?

Why isn't that part said about the disciples, Nick? Perhaps because it would be a ludicrous thing to say about someone who has never been anything OTHER THAN sinful flesh?

Think man, think.

Really Mike, the disciples were born of the sperm of man, he was not, although he had human flesh. God was his Father, not an earthy man.

Marty,

That doesn't address the point, since Jesus was indeed a FLESH being from the moment he came out of Mary's womb.

Jesus was never anything BUT flesh from the moment he was born on earth.

So you won't read: After his baptism, God sent Jesus in the likeness of sinful flesh out to the wilderness to be tempted. Why? Because he ALREADY WAS flesh at the time God sent him into the wilderness to be tempted.

And you won't read: When Jesus was 12 years old, God sent him in the likeness of sinful flesh to the synagogue to discuss scriptures with the priests and elders. Why? Because Jesus ALREADY WAS flesh at the time he went to the synagogue at age 12.

Are you getting the point yet? At no time – AFTER JESUS WAS ON EARTH – would anyone say, “God sent him in the likeness of sinful flesh“ – because he was nothing except for flesh the ENTIRE TIME he was on earth. So it would be a USELESS thing to point out that Jesus “went to Capernaum in the likeness of sinful flesh“, for example, because he had no choice BUT to go to Capernaum in the likeness of sinful flesh. He WAS, at that time, ALREADY sinful flesh – so how else COULD HE have gone to Capernaum?

And THAT'S why it isn't said that Jesus sent his disciples into the world in the likeness of sinful flesh. Because, since they WERE flesh beings, it would be SENSELESS to tell anyone that they were sent from town to town AS flesh beings.

So the fact that Paul said God “sent Jesus in the likeness of sinful flesh“ is speaking about Jesus being something OTHER THAN flesh at one time, but then God sending him AS A FLESH BEING.

June 4, 2014 at 12:34 am#386805

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ June 03 2014,14:48)

Marty

So the conception of Jesus is made possible through the power of God , not through the power of the holy spirit , the holy spirit is OF God

Hi Pierre:

This is what the scripture:

Quote

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

And so, you want to pick and choose one over the other. It states that both the Holy Spirit and the power of God were relevant, but I know that you are trying to teach me that “he was begotten of God prior to being born into this world, and that teaching is false because the scripture states that because the Holy Spirit shall come upon thee and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, THEREFORE also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

And so, that settles the issue that he was called the Son of God prior to his birth into this world. He was called the Son of God because the Holy Spirit came upon her and the power of God overshadowed her.

Love in Christ,
Marty

June 4, 2014 at 1:00 am#386810

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 04 2014,10:58)

Quote (942767 @ June 02 2014,21:39)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2014,14:20)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2014,21:05)

Hi MB,
So you are the one that can tell when SENT INTO THE WORD means one thing and not another.

Well, did Jesus send those disciples into the world in the likeness of sinful flesh?

Why isn't that part said about the disciples, Nick? Perhaps because it would be a ludicrous thing to say about someone who has never been anything OTHER THAN sinful flesh?

Think man, think.

Really Mike, the disciples were born of the sperm of man, he was not, although he had human flesh. God was his Father, not an earthy man.

Marty,

That doesn't address the point, since Jesus was indeed a FLESH being from the moment he came out of Mary's womb.

Jesus was never anything BUT flesh from the moment he was born on earth.

So the fact that Paul said God “sent Jesus in the likeness of sinful flesh“ is speaking about Jesus being something OTHER THAN flesh at one time, but then God sending him AS A FLESH BEING.

The scripture is speaking relative to Jesus obeying the Law without sin unto death on the cross which no man born of the sperm of man, sinful flesh, could do.

He was in the likeness of sinful flesh when he was born into this world, to be sure, but he was sent into the world in h is ministry in this state in order that he might fulfill the Law so that God might reconcile all men unto Himself through the sacrifice that he provided in the person of His Son.

The disciples were “sinful flesh”, and of course, the term “in the likeness of sinful flesh” could in no way have been said of them.

Love in Christ,
Marty

June 4, 2014 at 3:43 am#386846

Participant

Quote (942767 @ June 04 2014,06:34)

Quote (terraricca @ June 03 2014,14:48)

Marty

So the conception of Jesus is made possible through the power of God , not through the power of the holy spirit , the holy spirit is OF God

Hi Pierre:

This is what the scripture:

Quote

Love in Christ,
Marty

marty

how is that settling anything,

if Christ conception was from the holy spirit why then did he needed the holy spirit back when he was facing John the baptist

and how come that he receive the authority to baptized people with the holy spirit

you seem confused with my questions ,but they are legit ,you seem not to understand what is what and who is who ,

it does not take the holy spirit to make babies ,but it takes the POWER OF GOD TO ACCOMPLISH GOD'S WORK,

BUT IT TAKE THE HOLY SPIRIT ( SPIRIT OF TRUTH )TO KEEP ALL TRUTH IN GOD

June 5, 2014 at 1:04 am#387058

Blocked

Quote (942767 @ June 03 2014,19:00)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 04 2014,10:58)

Marty,

That doesn't address the point, since Jesus was indeed a FLESH being from the moment he came out of Mary's womb.

Jesus was never anything BUT flesh from the moment he was born on earth.

So the fact that Paul said God “sent Jesus in the likeness of sinful flesh“ is speaking about Jesus being something OTHER THAN flesh at one time, but then God sending him AS A FLESH BEING.

He was in the likeness of sinful flesh when he was born into this world, to be sure, but he was sent into the world in his ministry in this state in order that he might fulfill the Law………..

Okay. He WAS flesh from the moment he was born into this world. And God sent him out to the various towns AS a flesh person. How else WOULD God have sent him out to those towns, Marty?

Do you see it yet? If Jesus was ALREADY flesh, and everybody KNEW he was a flesh man, then what use would there be in saying God sent him to various towns in the likeness of sinful flesh?

Is it said that God sent John the Baptist to the Jordan in the likeness of sinful flesh? NO. Why not, Marty?

Because John was never anything BUT flesh. So WHEREEVER John went, or WHEREVER he was sent by God, it's obvious he would be going to that place in the likeness of sinful flesh. Since it's OBVIOUS, there is no reason to STATE the obvious.

That's why you won't read about Moses being sent to Egypt in the likeness of sinful flesh. You won't read about Samuel being sent to David in the likeness of sinful flesh.

Hebrews 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

What does it mean that Jesus took part of the same, Marty? As opposed to WHAT? Again, this would be a STUPID thing for Paul to say, if Jesus had no other option BUT “flesh and blood”.

But SINCE we were flesh and blood, he also had to come as flesh and blood to destroy the one who destroys flesh and blood. He didn't start off as flesh and blood, but HAD TO put on flesh and blood so that death could be conquered BY a flesh and blood man.

Who else would these words be said about, Marty? Would it be said that since the children were flesh and blood, Moses had to partake in the same? How about Samuel? Or Elijah? Or John the Baptist?

It wouldn't be said about these men because they had never been anything BUT flesh and blood. It was never a matter of HAVING to partake in flesh, because they had always BEEN flesh.

Quote (942767 @ June 03 2014,19:00)

The disciples were “sinful flesh”, and of course, the term “in the likeness of sinful flesh” could in no way have been said of them.

That's what I'm saying. They WERE flesh, so there was never a reason to say they were sent in the likeness of sinful flesh. Because what other likeness COULD they have been sent in?

So doesn't the fact that these words COULDN'T be said about the disciples, but they WERE said about Jesus, tell you something?

June 5, 2014 at 9:31 am#387202

gadam123

Participant

Quote (942767 @ June 04 2014,11:34)

Quote (terraricca @ June 03 2014,14:48)

Marty

So the conception of Jesus is made possible through the power of God , not through the power of the holy spirit , the holy spirit is OF God

Hi Pierre:

This is what the scripture:

Quote

Love in Christ,
Marty

Good post it is brother Marty. The person Jesus' origins are being debated here..the birth narratives rightly state that the Jesus 'will be' called son of God after his birth not prior to his birth. The word 'will be' is so clear every where in these narrations. I don't know why our brothers Mike and Terraricca close their eyes to these simple facts? Continue your good fight..
Love and peace to you….Adam

June 5, 2014 at 1:49 pm#387204

Participant

Quote (gadam123 @ June 05 2014,20:31)

Quote (942767 @ June 04 2014,11:34)

Quote (terraricca @ June 03 2014,14:48)

Marty

So the conception of Jesus is made possible through the power of God , not through the power of the holy spirit , the holy spirit is OF God

Hi Pierre:

This is what the scripture:

Quote

Love in Christ,
Marty

Hi Brother Adam:

It is very hard to understand why they can't see the truth. I feel like I am beating my head against a wall.

Let us pray that God will reveal the truth to them.

Love in Christ,
Marty

June 5, 2014 at 2:18 pm#387205

Participant

Quote (gadam123 @ June 05 2014,15:31)

Quote (942767 @ June 04 2014,11:34)

Quote (terraricca @ June 03 2014,14:48)

Marty

So the conception of Jesus is made possible through the power of God , not through the power of the holy spirit , the holy spirit is OF God

Hi Pierre:

This is what the scripture:

Quote

Love in Christ,
Marty

you guy's do not get it ;Christ was without sin this means without the curse of Adam sin so nothing under /in the law was condemning him ,,

anyone that is born from the descendant of Adam would have the curse in him ;for Paul says this ;

AC 24:14 “But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;

BUT ALL THIS DID NOT CLEAR PAUL FROM SIN;FOR WE ALL ARE BORN IN SIN ,

RO 3:19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
RO 3:20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

RO 3:21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
RO 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
RO 3:31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

RO 4:13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.

RO 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
RO 7:5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
RO 7:6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter

RO 7:9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died;
RO 7:12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
RO 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.
RO 7:16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
RO 7:22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,
RO 7:23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

RO 8:3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,

RO 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
RO 13:8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

GAL 3:5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
GAL 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM.”

Gal 3:11 Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”
Gal 3:12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.”
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”
Gal 3:14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Gal 3:19 What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator.

Gal 3:23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.
Gal 3:24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

Gal 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,
Gal 3:27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Gal 4:1 What I am saying is that as long as the heir is a child, he is no different from a slave, although he owns the whole estate.
Gal 4:2 He is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father.
Gal 4:3 So also, when we were children, we were in slavery under the basic principles of the world.
Gal 4:4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law,

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all
things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Jn 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

ALL SCRIPTURES ARE OF/FOR CHRIST THAT CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN TO SET US FREE BY FAITH IN HIM AND THE ONE THAT AS SEND HIM ,HIS FATHER GOD ALMIGHTY

June 5, 2014 at 7:02 pm#387226

Participant

Hi ,
Christ means the anointed one.
That anointing on the prophets goes back to before time.

The Word was with God and the word was God.
Jesus was a prophet anointed of God

June 5, 2014 at 9:12 pm#387254

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2014,01:02)

Hi ,
Christ means the anointed one.
That anointing on the prophets goes back to before time.

The Word was with God and the word was God.
Jesus was a prophet anointed of God

sorry Nick ,Jesus Christ is his name

it started out to be Jesus but when he became the teacher and start to be recognized by the disciples and the people as the ANOINTED ONE ;

IT IS NORMAL THAT HE IS CALLED JESUS CHRIST TO DISTINCT FROM ALL OTHER PEOPLE CALLED JESUS

JUST AS WE COULD CALL PEOPLE AND ADD THERE TRADE TO THEIR NAME OR PLACE FROM WHICH THEY ARE COMING FROM ,NO SECRET THEIR

June 5, 2014 at 11:35 pm#387292

Blocked

Quote (942767 @ June 05 2014,07:49)

Quote (gadam123 @ June 05 2014,20:31)

…….the birth narratives rightly state that the Jesus 'will be' called son of God after his birth not prior to his birth. The word 'will be' is so clear every where in these narrations. I don't know why our brothers Mike and Terraricca close their eyes to these simple facts?

Hi Brother Adam:

It is very hard to understand why they can't see the truth. I feel like I am beating my head against a wall.

Let us pray that God will reveal the truth to them.

In John 6, Jesus said, “I came down from heaven……… What if you see me ascend to where I was before?”

And then some of his listeners DID see him ascend to where he was before. (Acts 1:9-11)

I don't know why Adam, Gene, Nick, and Marty close their eyes to these simple facts……… especially considering that the one who gave us the teaching is the one they call their “Lord and Savior”.

It's very hard for Pierre and I to understand why you guys can't see the WHOLE truth. I fell like I am beating my head against a wall.

Pierre and I will pray that God reveal the WHOLE truth to you guys.

Adam, Gene, and Marty: Please DIRECTLY address the points I made in the 4th post on page 581 of the Pre-existence thread.

June 5, 2014 at 11:44 pm#387293

Participant

Hi MB,
Of course Jesus was conceived in Mary .
So he had not been in heaven.

Perhaps the Spirit of Christ was speaking through him?

June 5, 2014 at 11:49 pm#387294

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2014,05:44)

Hi MB,
Of course Jesus was conceived in Mary .
So he had not been in heaven.

Perhaps the Spirit of Christ was speaking through him?

so you are telling the truth and Jesus is lying because you both cannot be right is it

he talks strait forward simple talk ,

no fiction he just says it as it is ,

June 6, 2014 at 1:25 am#387303

Blocked

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2014,17:44)

Hi MB,

1. Of course Jesus was conceived in Mary .

2. So he had not been in heaven.

3. Perhaps the Spirit of Christ was speaking through him?

1. Absolutely. Jesus was indeed the son of Mary……… according to the flesh.

2. Wrong. He was existing in the form of God BEFORE he emptied himself and was made in the likeness of a human being in the womb of Mary.

3. The word “Christ” isn't mentioned in the entire chapter of John 6, Nick. Don't you think “Christ” would have been mentioned if it was the “Spirit of Christ” speaking those words?

Don't you think the Spirit of Christ, and the God to whom it belongs (the God it WAS – according to you), would have the SAME will – and not different ones?

Don't you think it would be hard for human beings to SEE the Spirit of Christ ascend to where he was before?

Don't you think SOMEBODY there would have been able to discern what you alone have discerned 2000 years later? I mean, not ONE of Jesus' own disciples discerned that it was really a spirit speaking THROUGH Jesus in John 6………. yet you alone have had this “awakening” 2000 years later……. but without one single SHRED of scriptural evidence to support it. Isn't that a little bizarre?

Your theory has way too many hurdles to overcome, Nick. Best to just BELIEVE the scriptures that say JESUS said those words. I do.

June 6, 2014 at 1:36 am#387307

Participant

Hi MB,
Yes the Spirit of Christ[now known as Jesus Christ] existed in the form of God.
The Word was with God and was God.

No what is written is quite sufficient.
Men do not come from heaven as they are conceived on earth.

John knew
He said he had TOUCHED the Word
Nobody saw Jesus ascending INTO heaven

June 6, 2014 at 1:44 am#387310

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2014,05:44)

Hi MB,
Of course Jesus was conceived in Mary .
So he had not been in heaven.

Perhaps the Spirit of Christ was speaking through him?

the only thing you can honestly say is that Mary end up with a baby ;

how it really got there WE DO NOT KNOW RIGHT YES

LOOK THE SCRIPTURES

June 6, 2014 at 1:59 am#387312

Participant

hi T,
Yes you are hearing exactly what the unspiritual men listening heard.

June 6, 2014 at 2:00 am#387314