Firstborn of/over all creation

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2014,05:59)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 25 2014,18:09) Hi MB, The Spirit became one with Jesus. Can you not understand at all? No Nick, The MAN who existed on earth as Jesus of Nazareth actually WAS that spirit being who God caused to be born from the womb of a woman. It isn't a matter of some spirit coming to dwell IN Jesus.  The true scriptural teaching is that this one known as “The Word” actually BECAME the flesh man Jesus. Why do you insist on adding the word “IN” into John 1:14?   Which is the scriptural truth: 1.  The Word came to be IN flesh? 2.  The Word BECAME flesh?

That the spirit or Word that God would speak to humanity was with God in the beginning is true, and God knew precisely what He would speak, and when he would speak to humanity through him, and that spirit the spirit of Christ, the Word of God which God obeyed unto death, is the life giving spirit that Jesus has become through perfect obedience to God's Word, and it is through that same spirit, the Word of God, that through which our heavenly Father is transforming us, his children, into the image of His Son as we learn to apply the Word of God in our daily lives.

But until Jesus obeyed the Word of God unto death on the cross his spirit had not been formed through it, but it was the the Word of God that was with the Father.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Yes he was blessed with the Spirit at the Jordan and walked in the light being led by the Spirit.
We can follow him

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 25 2014,18:07)

hi MB, You say Did THE SPIRIT raise up his own body in three days? Because whoever said, “I will raise it up” was speaking about raising HIS OWN body. John said JESUS said the words.  But you aim to correct John. “ Would you correct the words of the Spirit?

Were the words John wrote inspired by God? And did John say Jesus said those words?

So who exactly is correcting the Spirit, Nick? It is not I.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 25 2014,18:10)

Hi MB, MK1 23 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, 24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God. 25 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. 26 And when the unclean spirit had torn him, and cried with a loud voice, he came out of him. Who spoke to Jesus?

Addressed in the other thread.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ May 25 2014,18:23)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 26 2014,10:48) Quote (Ed J @ May 25 2014,17:13) Hi Mike, The bible says “God” created all things ALL things A-L-O-N-E. I agree with that, Ed. But do YOU agree with the many scriptures that say God did such a thing THROUGH His firstborn Son, Jesus the Anointed? See……. I can accept BOTH teachings, because I know what Tertullian knew:  He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another. God ALONE created all things, Ed.  But God chose to do that THROUGH many other vessels, such as Jesus, your mom and dad, you, etc………….. Hi Mike, 'He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another' What's that suppose to mean, God needed help? Clearly it says God created alone.

Well Ed,

Let's start slowly, since you don't know what Tertullian meant.

WHO created you?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ May 25 2014,18:37)

Mike: God's Wisdom was “brought forth” to us through “His Word”. And yes, I am aware of the footnotes, that it could be “born…………..

Proverbs 8:24 NET ©
When there were no deep oceans, I was born, 2 when there were no springs overflowing with water;

Note #2:

The third parallel verb is חוֹלָלְתִּי (kholalti), “I was given birth.”

Some (e.g., KJV, NAB, NASB, NRSV) translate it “brought forth” – not in the sense of being presented, but in the sense of being “begotten, given birth to.”

Here is the strongest support for the translation of קָנָה (qanah) as “created” in v. 22.

The Greek LXX and the Syriac version of the OT both have “born” and “created” as well.

[NickHassan]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2014,12:19)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 25 2014,18:07) hi MB, You say Did THE SPIRIT raise up his own body in three days? Because whoever said, “I will raise it up” was speaking about raising HIS OWN body. John said JESUS said the words.  But you aim to correct John. “ Would you correct the words of the Spirit? Were the words John wrote inspired by God?  And did John say Jesus said those words? So who exactly is correcting the Spirit, Nick?  It is not I.

Hi MB,
But you misunderstood because you still cannot hear the Spirit in the words of Jesus Christ.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ May 25 2014,18:42)

Well, Ed, but we know that what “Tertullian” said is the truth, and there could be no other way to understand what God meant when he said “all things were created by him(Jesus). This is the guy who first used the term “Trinitas”, and who used to baptize his converts by dunking them in the water three times, “once, in the name of the Father, and again, “in the name of the Son”, and again, “in the name of the Holy Spirit”, and I believe that he was an apostate. This is Mike's source.

Even Satan spoke many truths in the scriptures, Marty. Will you disbelieve the TRUE things Satan said just because it was Satan who said them?

Why not address the WORDS, instead of the man who coined them?

Are you able to see that the one who creates is ONE, while the one THROUGH WHOM He created those things is ANOTHER?

Let me help you, since it seems you cannot understand the words.

God, ALONE and BY HIMSELF, created you, Marty.

But God chose to create you THROUGH your mother.

Is He who created you one, while she THROUGH WHOM you were created is another? Or is your mom actually the God who created you?

Now do you understand the words Tertullian wrote? Can you argue against the undeniable logic and truth of those words?

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 27 2014,04:29)

Hi T, The words are not correct according to Eusebius who had an original copy of mts gospel in his library The apostles all baptised in the name of Jesus. were they untrue to what they had heard?

N

what are you answering to

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ May 26 2014,11:28)

Quote (Wakeup @ May 26 2014,12:30) In Mikes bible wisdom is mentioned as born. Not nice. In the kjv.it says brought forth. wakeup. WUP BROUGHT FORTH ,CREATED AND BORN , JUST TELL ME WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE WORDS ARE THEY INTER REPLACEABLE OR NOT SO

My source said the KJV and other translations had “brought forth”, but with the SENSE of “begotten” or “born”.

And Marty said there is a KJV footnote attached to “brought forth”, which says “or born”.

And the Hebrew word “yalad”, which the KJV translates as “begotten” and “begat” all throughout Genesis 5 and other scriptures, literally means “brought forth”.

But we are fighting against a lot of biases on this one, Pierre.

1. The Trinitarians don't want “create” and “born”, because they know the verse is about Jesus, and they don't want him to have had a beginning.

2.  Marty and the other non-preexisters don't want “create” and “born”, because they don't want Jesus to LITERALLY have been the first thing God ever created – despite the many OTHER scriptures that say just that.

3.  And Wakeup doesn't want “create” or “born”, simply because his 7 times refined KJV doesn't say “create” or “born”.  

It's always an uphill battle around here, because there are so many personal biases we have to work around.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Not least your own?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 26 2014,13:13)

Hi MB, So not one you could follow. What a head start!

Why not?  I follow God.  Consider His “head start”.  

Pierre, Nick has just proudly displayed one of his BIASES. He doesn't want the truth of the scriptures, unless that truth allows Jesus to be easy for us to follow.

If the truth of scriptures shows anything other than that, he will just ignore those scriptures as if they're not even there.

That is NOT the way to do it, fellas.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 26 2014,13:58)

Hi MB, You say “It isn't a matter of some spirit coming to dwell IN Jesus.” Wow! So the Spirit does not dwell in you either?

Have you switched topics now, Nick? How devious of you.

Yes, the Spirit of God has always been involved in Jesus' day to day activities.

But NO, there is no such thing as a “Spirit of Anointing” that came to be IN Jesus.

Instead, the spirit being Jesus BECAME the flesh man Jesus.

Don't twist the subject to make me look bad, Nick. You know full well what WE were talking about when I made the comment.

[NickHassan]

hi MB,
Scripture says in 2 cor 5

“God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself”

but you say he was another god who did it all?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
You say
“Yes, the Spirit of God has always been involved in Jesus' day to day activities.”

But not including speaking through him??

[mikeboll64]

For those of you who didn't notice Nick's deceptive tactics, here are my words IN CONTEXT:

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 26 2014,12:59)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 25 2014,18:09) Hi MB, The Spirit became one with Jesus. Can you not understand at all? No Nick, The MAN who existed on earth as Jesus of Nazareth actually WAS that spirit being who God caused to be born from the womb of a woman. It isn't a matter of some spirit coming to dwell IN Jesus.  The true scriptural teaching is that this one known as “The Word” actually BECAME the flesh man Jesus. Why do you insist on adding the word “IN” into John 1:14?   Which is the scriptural truth: 1.  The Word came to be IN flesh? 2.  The Word BECAME flesh?

So NO, I am not saying that Jesus never had the Holy Spirit of God in him.

I'm saying that there is no such thing as a “Spirit of Anointing” that came to dwell IN Jesus, and say things like, “Before Abraham existed, I have been.”

The BEING we knew on earth as “Jesus” is the BEING who came down from heaven to BECOME “Jesus”.  A living, sentient BEING emptied himself and was made in the likeness of a human being named “Jesus”.

And that's why the BEING named “Jesus” could say things like, “I came down from heaven.”. Because the BEING named “Jesus” actually DID come down from heaven.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
“But NO, there is no such thing as a “Spirit of Anointing” that came to be IN Jesus.”
So what does CHRISTOS mean?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 26 2014,14:13)

Hi MB, You say “The MAN who existed on earth as Jesus of Nazareth actually WAS that spirit being who God caused to be born from the womb of a woman.” So is Acts 10 38 wrong when it states that ” GOD ANOINTED JESUS OF NAZARETH with the Holy Spirit and power”? Or are you wrong?

Neither are wrong, Nick.

What I said is exactly what the scriptures taught me. And that doesn't contradict Acts 10:38 in the least.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ May 26 2014,16:38)

……and that spirit…… is the life giving spirit that Jesus has become……….

You are half way home, Marty. You realize that Jesus is that spirit AT THIS TIME.

Now you only need to believe that Jesus was that spirit BEFORE he emptied himself to be made in the likeness of a human being.

(This is why Jesus asked to be returned to the glory he had alongside God before the world began. He WAS that spirit, then became flesh, and then became that spirit again.)

You have the last part correct. Time to work on the first part.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 26 2014,19:37)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2014,12:19) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 25 2014,18:07) hi MB, You say Did THE SPIRIT raise up his own body in three days? Because whoever said, “I will raise it up” was speaking about raising HIS OWN body. John said JESUS said the words.  But you aim to correct John. “ Would you correct the words of the Spirit? Were the words John wrote inspired by God?  And did John say Jesus said those words? So who exactly is correcting the Spirit, Nick?  It is not I. Hi MB, But you misunderstood because you still cannot hear the Spirit in the words of Jesus Christ.

Nick,

“The Spirit” didn't say he came down from heaven, not to do HIS OWN WILL, but to do God's. (Does this “spirit” you talk about have HIS OWN WILL, like a person?)

“The Spirit” didn't say his BODY was the bread sent down from heaven. (Does your “spirit” have a BODY, Nick?)

“The Spirit” didn't say that some of them would SEE him ascend back to heaven.” (Can your “spirit” be SEEN by human eyes?)

Jesus said those words, Nick.  And John, who was inspired by God, even attributed those words TO Jesus – not to some made up “Spirit of Anointing” that spoke THROUGH Jesus' mouth.

[Author]

Posts