Firstborn of/over all creation

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 19 2014,17:29)

Hi MB, Acts 5 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, 2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Acts 5:9
Peter said to her, “How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord?

Is “God” the “Spirit OF THE Lord”, Nick?

If so, who is this “Lord” that God is the Spirit OF?

Let's alter the part of Acts 5 that you quoted – just so I can show you something.  Let's say that the angel Gabriel was sent to inquire for God about whether Ananias held back some of the money.  And Ananias told Gabriel that he didn't hold any back – even though he really did.

Even though Ananias literally spoke to Gabriel, and not to God Himself – could we say that Ananias “lied to God”?

Yes, because by lying to God's vice-regent, he also lied to God Himself.

And God's Holy Spirit, that other “comforter”, often acts as a vice regent of God Himself.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 19 2014,17:48)

Hi MB, God IS in heaven. HE does HIS work on earth by HIS Spirit

So when God's Holy Spirit is doing work on earth, is God Himself actually on earth? Or can God SEND His Holy Spirit here and there?

When God SENDS His Holy Spirit, is God sending HIMSELF?

You need to think these things out, Nick.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 19 2014,17:29)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 19 2014,17:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 19 2014,17:06) 1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came………… Nick, what do you think is included in the “all things” that came from God? 1.  “All things”, like it says? 2.  Or only “new creations”? Hi MB, All things Agreed. 1 Corinthians 8:6 ……and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came……… Nick, what do you think is included in the “all things” that came through our Lord, Jesus Christ? 1.  “All things”, like it says? 2.  Or only “new creations”?

Well,

It took about a week to get the direct answer to the first part. How long will it take to get the direct answer to the second part?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 18 2014,17:14)

Hi MB, The word was with God and was God. No mention of any other sentient being-that is theology.

Nick,

WHO came down from heaven, not to do his own will, but the will of the Father who sent him?

[NickHassan]

Hi mb,
Spend a bit more time pondering before you let the natural mind rule your words.

If a dog bit your hand did it bite you?

[mikeboll64]

Sure………. but if my hand disappeared in a puff of smoke, did I disappear in a puff of smoke?

There are questions awaiting your answers, Nick.

Please don't keep me waiting like you usually do.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
So if the dog bit you you should grasp how God works through His Spirit.

hopefully

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Surely you do not expect answers to all your questions in detail when the basis is shown to be faulty?
You are only a moderator here not a bullyboy surely?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 19 2014,18:35)

Hi MB, So if the dog bit you you should grasp how God works through His Spirit. hopefully

And if my hand disappeared, but I was still there, then you should grasp how “personal possessions” work.

Hopefully…….

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 19 2014,18:36)

Hi MB, Surely you do not expect answers to all your questions in detail when the basis is shown to be faulty? You are only a moderator here not a bullyboy surely?

Why WOULDN'T you answer them, Nick?

They are just simple questions that go along with our current discussion, right?  There is nothing “shady” or “deceitful” about them, is there?

YOU say that there was no other “sentient being” with God, right?  And I'M telling you that SOMEONE said he came down from heaven, not to do his own will, but the will of the Father who sent him.  WHO was that “sentient being”, who had his own will, but came down from heaven to do God's will instead?

YOU also say that the “all things” that came from God in 1 Cor 8:6 are literally “all things”.

And that leads me to wonder whether or not you believe that the “all things” that came through our Lord Jesus Christ are also literally “all things”.

I personally don't see any reason to think Paul was talking about two different sets of “all things” in the same statement.  If “all things #1” means “x”, then it seems to me that “all things #2” would also mean “x”.

Doesn't that also make sense to you?

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 20 2014,05:08)

Hi T, Ps 104.30

N

Ps 104:30 When you send your Spirit,
they are created,
and you renew the face of the earth.

thanks ;so do you believe that God actually is separated from his own being

because as it could mean that God SEND AWAY HIS OWN SPIRIT TO CREATE THINGS

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Of course Jesus did not exist before his conception in Mary
The Spirit of anointing did though.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Jesus was conceived in Mary according to scripture.
So Mary was his real mother and contributed half his natural human genes.
So how does this fit with you view he was the Son of God[alone?] before he became flesh??

God was not his father exclusively till the Jordan -by the Spirit.

The sons of God are led by the Spirit of God

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 20 2014,14:28)

Hi MB, Jesus was conceived in Mary according to scripture. So Mary was his real mother and contributed half his natural human genes. So how does this fit with you view he was the Son of God[alone?] before he became flesh?? God was not his father exclusively till the Jordan -by the Spirit. The sons of God are led by the Spirit of God

N

Quote

So Mary was his real mother and contributed half his natural human genes.

this is your assumption, a surrogate mother would have been seen no different in those days ,

but today we know that it is possible to bring in the womb of a women any fertilized egg to reproduce what ever as been planted in her ,

FOR THIS REASON GOD'S POWER WAS NEEDED TO PERFORM THIS OPERATION ,OTHER WISE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN JUST A NATURAL PROCESS ,USED FOR OVER 1000 'S OF YEARS BEFORE ,

MARY WAS USED BY GOD FOR SHE WAS PLEASED TO DO SO ,AND IF YOU READ THE SCRIPTURES HER BODY WAS USED BY GOD TO FULFILL THE TRUTH OF WHAT WAS WRITTEN IN THE SCRIPTURES ,SHE WOULD NOT HAVE ANY PARTICIPATION BESIDE BEING A SURROGATE MOTHER ,FOR THE SON OF GOD ,KNOWN AS THE WORD” IN HEAVEN SO THAT GOD COULD CONTINUE HIS PLAN TO SAVE HUMANITY FROM THE EVIL CREATED BY SATAN ,(REBELLION TOWARD GOD THE CREATOR)THIS IS WHY THEIR COULD NOT BE ANY FOCUS ON MARY FOR ANYTHING ,CHRIST WAS THE REASON NOT MARY ,MANY HAVE DECLARED HER THE MOTHER OF GOD WHAT IS RIDICULE, TO MANY PEOPLE LIKE TO PLACE MARY WHERE SHE DOES NOT BELONG , JESUS KNEW AT THE AGE OF 12 WHERE HE CAME FROM AND FOR WHAT REASON , SCRIPTURES SAYS SO,

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 19 2014,19:07)

Hi MB, Of course Jesus did not exist before his conception in Mary The Spirit of anointing did though.

That's not really a DIRECT answer to my question, Nick. But are you saying that “the Spirit of anointing” is who came down from heaven, not to do his own will, but the will of the Father?

(I still await your DIRECT response to my question about 1 Cor 8:6)

Here, let me show you how DIRECT answers work……………

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 20 2014,02:28)

So Mary was his real mother and contributed half his natural human genes. So how does this fit with you view he was the Son of God[alone?] before he became flesh?

Easily, Nick.

Imagine that God decided to send His spirit son Gabriel to earth, and have Gabriel be born of a human woman named “Helen”.

The end result would be that Gabriel would be Helen's son – according to the flesh.

But the fact that Gabriel ended up being Helen's flesh son wouldn't change the fact that Gabriel had already been a spirit son of God for eons BEFORE he became Helen's flesh son, right?

My understanding is that Jesus was literally God's firstborn spirit son, and that God's other spirit sons were subsequently created through that first one.

Then, much later, that same firstborn Son of God was sent to earth, to be born of a human woman named Mary. The fact that Jesus was Mary's son – according to the flesh – doesn't erase the fact that Jesus was God's firstborn Son in heaven long BEFORE he ever emptied himself to be made in the likeness of a human being.

Does that address your query?

[terraricca]

Nick

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
Guesswork?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Indeed the Spirit of Christ spoke through him.
And so all the natural men became and still remain confused.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
He was conceived.
No surrogacy

[Author]

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