Firstborn of/over all creation

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 14 2014,21:25)

Hi MB, Rom 8 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. This applies to Jesus too=after the Jordan Lk4 4 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

Jesus was already God's firstborn Son long before God ever sent His firstborn Son into the world.

[NickHassan]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 16 2014,13:00)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 14 2014,21:03) Hi MB, By being made one with the Spirit, Jesus has inherited all the history of the works of that Spirit. So, because Jesus inherited the Spirit, we can now attribute every thing the Spirit has ever done to Jesus?   So then it was Jesus who was hovering over the waters in Genesis 1:2? Are you sure, Nick?

Hi MB,
You should grasp the concept but not adjust scripture

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
” In the beginning the Word was with God and the Word was God”
does not describe the creation of another being.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
You must reconcile ps 104
The Spirit[of and in Christ] created

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
You say
“Jesus was already God's firstborn Son long before God ever sent His firstborn Son into the world. “

No he was proclaimed the Son of God by God at the Jordan

Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
He was sent into the world
So were his brothers

John 17:18
“As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.”

So this does not imply preexistence

[mikeboll64]

Yes Nick,

“Sent into the world” could have different meanings, couldn't it?

With the disciples, we know it means “sent them OUT into the various places in the world”.  We know this, because the disciples were never said to have ever been anywhere BUT in the world.

But what about a man who says he came down from heaven to do the will of He who sent him?

Could “God sent him into the world” have an entirely different meaning then?  

Of course it can.  So focus on the “I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN” part……. because that part really says all you need to know.  Then you'll be able to understand the following correctly:

1 John 4:9-10
“In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins..

Now, here are the two main points waiting for a response from you:

1.  Is there any scriptural indication that spirit beings in heaven, like angels, became “new creations” because of Jesus' sacrifice?

If not, then please explain Colossians 1:15 – in conjunction with 1:16.

2.  What is included in the “all things” that came from God in 1 Cor 8:6?  Just “new creations”?  Or literally “all things”, like it says?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Indeed the Word that was with God came and was made flesh.
The Spirit of Christ spoke through him
The Spirit is from heaven

The Spirit creates.ps 104

[mikeboll64]

Okay Nick,

Let's discuss some of these things you mentioned.

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 16 2014,21:23)

Indeed the Word that was with God came and was made flesh.

What was this “Word” BEFORE it “came and was made flesh”?

Was it a sentient being with a mind and will of its own?  Please explain what the Word was BEFORE it BECAME flesh.

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 16 2014,21:23)

The Spirit of Christ spoke through him

Through whom?  The Word who “came and was made flesh”?

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 16 2014,21:23)

The Spirit creates.ps 104

Please explain.  Did God create all things?  Or did God send a Spirit to go and create all things?

What exactly do you mean by, “the Spirit creates”?

[mikeboll64]

Nick,

These questions are still waiting for you.  Please answer them.

1.  Is there any scriptural indication that spirit beings in heaven, like angels, became “new creations” because of Jesus' sacrifice?

If not, then please explain Colossians 1:15 – in conjunction with 1:16.

For example, you say Jesus is the “firstborn of NEW creations”. But angels didn't become “NEW creations” when Jesus was sacrificed, right? So how can Col 1:15 be about NEW creations only, when 1:16 says that even the things in heaven (which did NOT become “new”) were created through Jesus?

2.  What is included in the “all things” that came from God in 1 Cor 8:6?  Just “new creations”?  Or literally “all things”, like it says?

[NickHassan]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 19 2014,04:15)

Okay Nick, Let's discuss some of these things you mentioned. Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 16 2014,21:23) Indeed the Word that was with God came and was made flesh. What was this “Word” BEFORE it “came and was made flesh”? Was it a sentient being with a mind and will of its own?  Please explain what the Word was BEFORE it BECAME flesh. Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 16 2014,21:23) The Spirit of Christ spoke through him Through whom?  The Word who “came and was made flesh”? Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 16 2014,21:23) The Spirit creates.ps 104 Please explain.  Did God create all things?  Or did God send a Spirit to go and create all things? What exactly do you mean by, “the Spirit creates”?

Hi MB,
The word was with God and was God.
No mention of any other sentient being-that is theology.
God creates through His Spirit.

ps 104

[NickHassan]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 19 2014,04:22)

Nick, These questions are still waiting for you.  Please answer them. 1.  Is there any scriptural indication that spirit beings in heaven, like angels, became “new creations” because of Jesus' sacrifice? If not, then please explain Colossians 1:15 – in conjunction with 1:16. For example, you say Jesus is the “firstborn of NEW creations”.  But angels didn't become “NEW creations” when Jesus was sacrificed, right?  So how can Col 1:15 be about NEW creations only, when 1:16 says that even the things in heaven (which did NOT become “new”) were created through Jesus? 2.  What is included in the “all things” that came from God in 1 Cor 8:6?  Just “new creations”?  Or literally “all things”, like it says?

Hi MB,
God's Spirit creates
The Word is of the God Who is spirit

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Do you think some “sentient being” other than God created all things?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Did God not create?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
.Isaiah 40:28
Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

Isaiah 43:15
I am the Lord, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.

Romans 1:25
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

1 Peter 4:19
Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

Who is the creator?

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 19 2014,05:16)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 19 2014,04:22) Nick, These questions are still waiting for you.  Please answer them. 1.  Is there any scriptural indication that spirit beings in heaven, like angels, became “new creations” because of Jesus' sacrifice? If not, then please explain Colossians 1:15 – in conjunction with 1:16. For example, you say Jesus is the “firstborn of NEW creations”.  But angels didn't become “NEW creations” when Jesus was sacrificed, right?  So how can Col 1:15 be about NEW creations only, when 1:16 says that even the things in heaven (which did NOT become “new”) were created through Jesus? 2.  What is included in the “all things” that came from God in 1 Cor 8:6?  Just “new creations”?  Or literally “all things”, like it says? Hi MB, God's Spirit creates The Word is of the God Who is spirit

N

Quote

God's Spirit creates

ANY SCRIPTURE FOR THIS UNDERSTANDING

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 19 2014,05:19)

Hi MB, .Isaiah 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding. Isaiah 43:15 I am the Lord, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King. Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 1 Peter 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. Who is the creator?

N

Quote

Who is the creator?

NO ONE WILL DENY GOD AS THE ONLY CREATOR ,BUT YOU DENY THE SON ,BY DENYING THAT HE WAS GOD'S FIRST CREATION ,JUST AS SCRIPTURES SAYS IT ,

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 19 2014,05:17)

Hi MB, Do you think some “sentient being” other than God created all things?

N

WHY DID GOD CREATED THE HEAVENLY BEINGS +- 200000000 OF THEM TO SIT AROUND PARTYING

AND THE VERY FIRST OF THOSE BEINGS IS GOD'S SON CALLED “THE WORD” AND ALL PARTICIPATE IN GOD CREATION JUST AS ALL MEN PARTICIPATE TO BRING ABOUT GOD'S WILL TO ITS FULFILLMENT ,

DENYING SCRIPTURES DOES NOT GIVE TRUTH ,

SO ANSWER MIKE'S QUESTIONS INSTEAD OF RUNNING AROUND LIKE A CHICKEN WITHOUT A HEAD

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
Ps 104

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 19 2014,23:37)

Hi T, Ps 104

N

Ps 104:1 Praise the LORD, O my soul.

O LORD my God, you are very great;
you are clothed with splendor and majesty.
Ps 104:2 He wraps himself in light as with a garment;
he stretches out the heavens like a tent
Ps 104:3 and lays the beams of his upper chambers on their waters.
He makes the clouds his chariot
and rides on the wings of the wind.
Ps 104:4 He makes winds his messengers,
flames of fire his servants.

Ps 104:5 He set the earth on its foundations;
it can never be moved.
Ps 104:6 You covered it with the deep as with a garment;
the waters stood above the mountains.
Ps 104:7 But at your rebuke the waters fled,
at the sound of your thunder they took to flight;
Ps 104:8 they flowed over the mountains,
they went down into the valleys,
to the place you assigned for them.
Ps 104:9 You set a boundary they cannot cross;
never again will they cover the earth.

Ps 104:10 He makes springs pour water into the ravines;
it flows between the mountains.
Ps 104:11 They give water to all the beasts of the field;
the wild donkeys quench their thirst.
Ps 104:12 The birds of the air nest by the waters;
they sing among the branches.
Ps 104:13 He waters the mountains from his upper chambers;
the earth is satisfied by the fruit of his work.
Ps 104:14 He makes grass grow for the cattle,
and plants for man to cultivate—
bringing forth food from the earth:
Ps 104:15 wine that gladdens the heart of man,
oil to make his face shine,
and bread that sustains his heart.
Ps 104:16 The trees of the LORD are well watered,
the cedars of Lebanon that he planted.
Ps 104:17 There the birds make their nests;
the stork has its home in the pine trees.
Ps 104:18 The high mountains belong to the wild goats;
the crags are a refuge for the coneys.

Ps 104:19 The moon marks off the seasons,
and the sun knows when to go down.
Ps 104:20 You bring darkness, it becomes night,
and all the beasts of the forest prowl.
Ps 104:21 The lions roar for their prey
and seek their food from God.
Ps 104:22 The sun rises, and they steal away;
they return and lie down in their dens.
Ps 104:23 Then man goes out to his work,
to his labor until evening.

Ps 104:24 How many are your works, O LORD?
In wisdom you made them all;
the earth is full of your creatures.
Ps 104:25 There is the sea, vast and spacious,
teeming with creatures beyond number—
living things both large and small.
Ps 104:26 There the ships go to and fro,
and the leviathan, which you formed to frolic there.

Ps 104:27 These all look to you
to give them their food at the proper time.
Ps 104:28 When you give it to them,
they gather it up;
when you open your hand,
they are satisfied with good things.
Ps 104:29 When you hide your face,
they are terrified;
when you take away their breath,
they die and return to the dust.
Ps 104:30 When you send your Spirit,
they are created,
and you renew the face of the earth.

Ps 104:31 May the glory of the LORD endure forever;
may the LORD rejoice in his works—
Ps 104:32 he who looks at the earth, and it trembles,
who touches the mountains, and they smoke.

Ps 104:33 I will sing to the LORD all my life;
I will sing praise to my God as long as I live.
Ps 104:34 May my meditation be pleasing to him,
as I rejoice in the LORD.
Ps 104:35 But may sinners vanish from the earth
and the wicked be no more.

Praise the LORD, O my soul.

Praise the LORD.

WAS IS IT THAT YOU WANT TO ENLIGHTEN ME WITH

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