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Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Nov. 02 2011,18:28) Mike said: Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 02 2011,10:18) Jacob wrestled with an angel, or vice-regent of God.
Jacob said that he saw God FACE TO FACE and that he named the place where he wrestled with God “Peniel” because he saw God FACE TO FACE. You weren't there!Mike said:
Quote And many times, the Hebrews called what they KNEW was an angel OF God “YHWH”.
To call an angel “YHWH” would be blasphemy if that angel were not YHWH! Duh….Here is what you are saying Mike,
“And many times the Hebrews committed blasphemy by calling what they knew to be an angel by the name YHWH.”
Think Sonny think!Mike said:
Quote Btw, John 1:18 doesn't say “God the only Son”. It says “the only begotten god” has explained God Almighty to us. See Jack? Someone OTHER THAN God was sent to explain God to us.
The Sahidic Coptics inwhich the non-trinitarians trust say, “God the Only Son.” Many other ancient translations say read the same way. The small “g” is YOUR opinion because the original Greek text has ALL CAPS!See Mike. No one OTHER THAN God can explain God to us.
Mike said:
Quote It doesn't say that no one understood God, so HE came to earth to explain HIMSELF to us – no matter how much you WANT it to say that
The context requires my interpretation. Christ is called the “Word,” the “Truth,” the “Light,” and the “Exegete.” All these terms require that He came to COMMUNICATE God to us. Therefore, the expression, “No man has seen God” speaks to our IGNORANCE and necessarily means “no man has seen Him with the understanding. God the only Son, He has EXPLAINED Him.”It's all about context Sonny!
Servant of the Exegete,
Jack
KJEx 3:2 There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up.
Ex 3:3 So Moses thought, “I will go over and see this strange sight—why the bush does not burn up.”
Ex 3:4 When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, “Moses! Moses!”
And Moses said, “Here I am.”1JN 4:12 No one has seen God at any time;
JN 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
3JN 1:11 Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. The one who does good is of God; the one who does evil has not seen God.
It's all about context Sonny!
Pierre
Jack,
Jesus is the VISIBLE representation of our INVISIBLE God. And it was Jehovah Himself who told Moses that no man can see His face and live.
And Manoah, after realizing he had seen AN ANGEL OF GOD, said:
Judges 13:22
“We are doomed to die!” he said to his wife. “We have seen God!”And Jehovah is the One who told the Israelites not to test the ANGEL He was sending ahead of them, because “My Name is in him”.
Quote (Sonny Roo @ Nov 1) The small “g” is YOUR opinion because the original Greek text has ALL CAPS!
Forget upper versus lower case “g”. Pay attention to the word BEGOTTEN. Was God Almighty ever “begotten”, Jack? If so, by whom?
Quote (Sonny Roo @ Nov 1) See Mike. No one OTHER THAN God can explain God to us.
So God Himself came to earth to explain Himself? See? I knew that was what you WANTED 1:18 to say. But, sorry Sport – it just doesn't say that.Sonny-Roo, let the scriptures guide YOU. Don't try to guide THEM. Okay Tiger?
Yeah Jack, what Pierre said.
Exodus 3:4 says “GOD called to him from the bush”. But verse 2 and Acts 7:30 and 35 all say it was an ANGEL OF God.
Please explain, Sonny Roo.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Nov. 01 2011,19:28) Mike said: Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 02 2011,10:18) Jacob wrestled with an angel, or vice-regent of God.
Jacob said that he saw God FACE TO FACE and that he named the place where he wrestled with God “Peniel” because he saw God FACE TO FACE. You weren't there!Mike said:
Quote And many times, the Hebrews called what they KNEW was an angel OF God “YHWH”.
To call an angel “YHWH” would be blasphemy if that angel were not YHWH! Duh….Here is what you are saying Mike,
“And many times the Hebrews committed blasphemy by calling what they knew to be an angel by the name YHWH.”
Think Sonny think!Mike said:
Quote Btw, John 1:18 doesn't say “God the only Son”. It says “the only begotten god” has explained God Almighty to us. See Jack? Someone OTHER THAN God was sent to explain God to us.
The Sahidic Coptics inwhich the non-trinitarians trust say, “God the Only Son.” Many other ancient translations say read the same way. The small “g” is YOUR opinion because the original Greek text has ALL CAPS!See Mike. No one OTHER THAN God can explain God to us.
Mike said:
Quote It doesn't say that no one understood God, so HE came to earth to explain HIMSELF to us – no matter how much you WANT it to say that
The context requires my interpretation. Christ is called the “Word,” the “Truth,” the “Light,” and the “Exegete.” All these terms require that He came to COMMUNICATE God to us. Therefore, the expression, “No man has seen God” speaks to our IGNORANCE and necessarily means “no man has seen Him with the understanding. God the only Son, He has EXPLAINED Him.”It's all about context Sonny!
Servant of the Exegete,
Jack
Hi JackExcellent post and the Truth Brother.
It takes the Spirit of God to show a man the truth that lies in the scriptures.
Jesus said… “search the scriptures for in them you THINK you have eternal life but they are they that testify of ME but you will not come to ME that you might have life”. John 5:39, 40
The scriptures testify of Jehovah God and Jesus takes claim to them being written about him!
Amen! The lies of satan and the darkness that attacks the nature of who Jesus is, is exposed and driven back by the TRUE LIGHT and Jesus is “THE LIGHT” that lights every man!
Blessings Brother!
WJ
wj
Quote Hi Jack Excellent post and the Truth Brother.
It takes the Spirit of God to show a man the truth that lies in the scriptures.
Jesus said… “search the scriptures for in them you THINK you have eternal life but they are they that testify of ME but you will not come to ME that you might have life”. John 5:39, 40
The scriptures testify of Jehovah God and Jesus takes claim to them being written about him!
Amen! The lies of satan and the darkness that attacks the nature of who Jesus is, is exposed and driven back by the TRUE LIGHT and Jesus is “THE LIGHT” that lights every man!
Blessings Brother!
WJ
common and shared knowledge does not make it the truth ,but kisses and moral support does it neither,so no truth and stick to what we want to see and hear ,in the club.
Pierre
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 03 2011,09:14) It takes the Spirit of God to show a man the truth that lies in the scriptures.
Keith,If your spirit is showing you things that contradict the things clearly spelled out in scripture, then you are being guided by the wrong spirit, dude. For example, if the scriptures say “the Son OF God”, and your spirit is telling you “God the Son”, then your spirit is telling you the lies of the god of this age. Don't you know you're supposed to test the spirits? Don't you know that the only thing we have to test those spirits against is what is clearly written in the word of God?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 03 2011,09:14) Jesus said… “search the scriptures for in them you THINK you have eternal life but they are they that testify of ME but you will not come to ME that you might have life”. John 5:39, 40 The scriptures testify of Jehovah God and Jesus takes claim to them being written about him!
Really Keith? Hey guys, scriptures speak of God AND they speak of Jesus! Therefore, Jesus must BE God! 
Keith, scriptures also speak of Moses. Is HE God too?
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 20 2010,15:56) What did the ante-nicene church fathers say about the Son as the firstborn of/over all creation? Do they indicate that the Son was the first to come forth from God and then through Him all things came into being? Or did they indicate something else by calling him the firstborn of/over all creation (Col 1)? Put ante-nicene church fathers quotes on here and let's see if there was a common understanding. Let this thread just be quotes from the church fathers with online sources sited.
Let's just look at their words.
Hi lightenup.Was Jesus born of a woman or not?
Did he sucked his mothers breast or not?
Did he feel pain,and sorrow,and hungry in the desert?
He is human Just like us, he needs to go, when natures calls.
Did he die or not.
THis is the MYSTERY THAT NOT MANY CAN SEE.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 31 2011,04:53) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 20 2010,15:56) What did the ante-nicene church fathers say about the Son as the firstborn of/over all creation? Do they indicate that the Son was the first to come forth from God and then through Him all things came into being? Or did they indicate something else by calling him the firstborn of/over all creation (Col 1)? Put ante-nicene church fathers quotes on here and let's see if there was a common understanding. Let this thread just be quotes from the church fathers with online sources sited.
Let's just look at their words.
Hi lightenup.Was Jesus born of a woman or not?
Did he sucked his mothers breast or not?
Did he feel pain,and sorrow,and hungry in the desert?
He is human Just like us, he needs to go, when natures calls.
Did he die or not.
THis is the MYSTERY THAT NOT MANY CAN SEE.wakeup.
wakeupQuote THis is the MYSTERY THAT NOT MANY CAN SEE. no mystery there it happen to all of us in time,
Pierre
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 30 2011,05:53) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 20 2010,15:56) What did the ante-nicene church fathers say about the Son as the firstborn of/over all creation? Do they indicate that the Son was the first to come forth from God and then through Him all things came into being? Or did they indicate something else by calling him the firstborn of/over all creation (Col 1)? Put ante-nicene church fathers quotes on here and let's see if there was a common understanding. Let this thread just be quotes from the church fathers with online sources sited.
Let's just look at their words.
Hi lightenup.Was Jesus born of a woman or not?
Did he sucked his mothers breast or not?
Did he feel pain,and sorrow,and hungry in the desert?
He is human Just like us, he needs to go, when natures calls.
Did he die or not.
THis is the MYSTERY THAT NOT MANY CAN SEE.wakeup.
Hi wakeup,
True. One reason it is a mystery is because the Son pre-existed His existence in the womb of Mary. To many, it is too amazing to think the begotten God would empty Himself in order to come as a helpless baby for our benefit and salvation.Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 31 2011,07:07) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 30 2011,05:53) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 20 2010,15:56) What did the ante-nicene church fathers say about the Son as the firstborn of/over all creation? Do they indicate that the Son was the first to come forth from God and then through Him all things came into being? Or did they indicate something else by calling him the firstborn of/over all creation (Col 1)? Put ante-nicene church fathers quotes on here and let's see if there was a common understanding. Let this thread just be quotes from the church fathers with online sources sited.
Let's just look at their words.
Hi lightenup.Was Jesus born of a woman or not?
Did he sucked his mothers breast or not?
Did he feel pain,and sorrow,and hungry in the desert?
He is human Just like us, he needs to go, when natures calls.
Did he die or not.
THis is the MYSTERY THAT NOT MANY CAN SEE.wakeup.
Hi wakeup,
True. One reason it is a mystery is because the Son pre-existed His existence in the womb of Mary. To many, it is too amazing to think the begotten God would empty Himself in order to come as a helpless baby for our benefit and salvation.Kathi
Lightenup.God never emptied himself; this is not scriptural,its not in scripture.Give that up.
The word was with God from everlasting,then God made the word flesh; not God made flesh, but the word made flesh.And that word became the man Jesus.The time God made that word flesh,is at his(Jesus) birth.This was the beginning of his life as a human.A true human but God dwells in him fully. And born by the will of God.
He is not half human and half God.If this was so ,then his suffering would not be genuine,his pain would not be real,his death would not be real.
This man(which is the word) was resurected and given a glorified body,and is sitting next to his father.He is the first born from the dead,the first resurected.He is also the first spoken word,when God started creating.John 1:1.In the beginning was the word.
He is now given all authority; he is given charge,he does not have to ask his father anymore.He will come back with a new name;THE WORD OF GOD.REV19.KING OF KINGS,LORD OF LORDS.
Gods word is not one singular utterance, but multitudes of utteranses. our word is not just one,but many.one can speak all day long; and we say,he is speaking his word.(singular)
What ever God says,that is his word and is a living word.
wakeup.
Sorry Wakeup,
I did not see this post till just now. I see that you have reposted it in this thread:
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=150We can discuss it there.
KathiHi,
I suggest these all mean the same.
Which means the firstborn is of the NEW creation
Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.Colossians 1:15
who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.Hebrews 12:23
to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,First was Adam;he was made a living soul.
The first of the flesh creatures.(speaking of humans,not animals).Second was Jesus,He was the first made a quickening
spirit.(spirit).
He is the Adam of the spirit creatures to be; that are now still in the flesh.wakeup.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 07 2014,10:19) Hi, I suggest these all mean the same.
Which means the firstborn is of the NEW creation
Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.Colossians 1:15
who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.Hebrews 12:23
to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
NickQuote I suggest these all mean the same.
Which means the firstborn is of the NEW creationno,those scriptures do not talk about the same thing ;
but it can be said that those scriptures shows THE WILL AND VIEW OF WHAT THE FATHER WANT IN CHRIST TO BE ,
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