- This topic has 3,676 replies, 33 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 9 months ago by
.
- Posts
Nick I don’t even think you read the whole post. your mind is made up. Your really not concerned with what scriptures say you just like twisting them to make them say what your mysterious doctorines is that you and your father make up.
God bless.
Hi Anthony,
Seek the rest offered in Christ in the first resurrection.Heb 4
There is a second resurrection shown in Mt 25 but the mercy of our God is limited.
It is only extended to those who show mercy to His children and the goats are cast into the lake of fire.
Universalism is a demonic lie to capture the dreamers.
Is not man a creature who exists through influence?
Paul says that we are in bondage because of our natural born fear of death, this is what influences us into temptation, it is what influences our minds to serve the flesh. Not all service to the flesh is evil, if it were, then EATING would be a sin. But how you obtain your food can be sinful, if you killed in order to eat, or stole in order to eat, that is a sin. God gave the law so that we would know that such behavior is not acceptable. If you find yourself hungry and do not have food you seek God, not your own devices!!
So like our weak flesh influences us, God also influences us. Jesus represents that the POWER of God’s Spirit enables man to overcome his weakness. Jesus sweated blood, and asked God to take the cup of death from him, he showed his weakness of the fear of death, however he did not submit to it but to the will of God instead. Jesus said that ONLY God is GOOD, the ability of Jesus to submit to God’s will came through the power of God’s influence. Jesus could do nothing himself, he was not good, God influencing him did the work.
For one to believe that the influence of man’s weak flesh is more powerful than the influence of God’s Spirit, does not know God. Nick, it is like you believe that certain men have an influence inside them that is more powerful than that of God’s influence. You disgrace God and his powers of INFLUENCE. Man is pathetic, just look at what he is capable of believing! You don’t think that if God chooses to call a weak ignorant minded man, that His influence will not over power all other influences????
Those in the second resurrection are raised mortal, they are once again in bondage to the fear of death, those of the first resurrection have been freed from that bondage. If we did not fear death, would we seek God? Would there be any reason to have faith in Him, to desire to learn from Him, that He as our designer knows just how it is we are to function in the manner that brings us to joy and peace? Adam was of an ignorant mind, he showed a lack of faith in God, he thought he could be made wise through eating fruit, and he did not believe God that he could be made able to die. God had to make man’s body weak in order to show His power and that He is life, that He holds all wisdom. God had to give man a reason to desire Him and also His ways. Adam thought he could obtain wisdom without God, and that he could keep his life. Jesus was influenced by God’s Spirit and learned from the examples God had made through the history of man following his own ways, his own imagination, that man is extremely stupid and pathetic on his own. This wisdom Jesus received from these examples, and the words from the prophets that God’s Spirit used to influence him, made him willing to lose his life, so that he could pay the penalty that Adam had brought to the world.
We are told that the lake of fire is the second death. We are told that death and the grave are cast into this fire. We are told that God is a consuming fire who refines, He PURIFIES with fire. If people are cast into the lake of fire which is the second death, where even death itself is cast into, and God is a fire of PURIFICATION, then those that are subjected to the second death, are being subjected to purification. The liar, murderer, immoral, idolater, are destroyed BECAUSE those people who once were those things have become PURIFIED.
Do animals feel guilty?.. well I have seen a dog act guilty, but certainly not on a human level. GUILT is what God gives to bring repentance. Narcissists are beasts, they do not know guilt, like a psychopath does not have guilt, they have selfishness and excuses. Purification begins with giving the mechanism of guilt within the human brain, such a gift separates us from animals. You wonder why certain folks act the way they do, why they are more considerate, patient, kind, understanding, it is because they have guilt built into their conscience, which God gives in order that we may know right from wrong. Once guilt is in place that is when the FIRE takes hold, that is when the error of our ways are understood, that is when we feel shame, and are brought onto our knees into repentance. When one has repentance they are open to following a new way, God’s way.
Feeling guilty is the WORST feeling, that feeling exists on many levels. Those in the first resurrection will not be hurt by such. Those in the second resurrection include those that have been exceedingly sinful. Just imagine when they are given a guilty conscience!! They will be experiencing such pain and shame, a feeling I would never want to endure!! The firstfruits of God’s Spirit have it made, they will never have to endure such a fire, and they will be there ready to welcome those that have been washed clean, to teach them what they have been learning for the past thousand years.
You do not know the TRUE GOD if you do not believe that His influence, which includes giving a human mind a guilty conscience, has more power than that of a man’s.
But Nick it seems that you want to tell us that certain humans have an ability within themselves that is of greater power than that of God. You believe that now is the time for all to be saved, you ignore the elect as being the FIRSTfruits of God’s Spirit. You deny that God is longsuffering towards us, that He is not willing that any should perish, but all come into REPENTANCE and the knowledge of Him.
As for me, I give glory and honor to my Creator for I know that His power of influence is greater than all, and this is exactly why we are told that God will be all in all.
If God can purify ONE MAN, He can purify them ALL. To not believe that God has this power, makes you a self righteous fool.
Hi Jodi,
Your godless and legalistic theories are not of the Spirit but of your imagination.
dig deeper
Hi Nick
To get back to Matthew 25.
Nick
Don’t be content with the answer in modern mainstream Christianity of a place where pain, blasphemy and torture exist for all eternity…that isn’t actually biblical and it was in fact the MINORITY end-times view in the Christian religion (ancient churches) PRE-5th Century AD! 4/6 churches taught Universal Salvation, 1 eternal torment and 1 annihilationism…don’t believe anyone when they gloss over this or pretend it isn’t significant…closer to the times of the Apostles; we need to take heed of what was likely the Truth before widespread apostasy infected the religion we know today.
Many answers here area ea oksily seen as contradictory in defending their etenral torture-hell-hole, as and revealed as false:”Hell as an Eternal, Dying Destination” for example was given, yet we are clearly told that there is NO MORE SIN and DEATH, which includes the “second death” (and any other) – Modern Christendom is FULL of contradictions and inversions of the Truth of Scriptural teachings properly studied.
In short it actually actually denotes a temporal (limited, but no exact time-frame given) time of harsh corrective judgment – God’s “wrath” and “vengeance” is terrible to be on the receiving end of; but it’s not something Satan would grin at….God’s justice and thus judgment is REDEMPTIVE, not RETRIBUTIVE as a carnal man would demand. We see that example most clearly in that Christ’s sacrifice on the cross WAS FOR SINNERS…to SAVE THEM, not DAMN THEM…it was an act of divine love, He DIED for His enemies and teaches us to LOVE OURS…”so he can torture His own?” – NO! (directly or by “separating” from them, it’s the same lack of concern/love, and it’s FALSE.
The verse according to KJV:
Mat 25:46 – And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Hi Nick
“The entire concept of eternal or everlasting punishment hinges primarily on a single verse of Scripture– Matthew 25:46. This is the only place in the entire Bible where we find these two words together AND only in some Bibles. There are over a dozen English translations which do NOT contain the concept of “eternal punishment” on ANY of their pages, NOR the pagan concept of Hell.
The Greek form for “everlasting punishment” in Matthew 25:46 is ”kolasin aionion.” Kolasin is a noun in the accusative form, singular voice, feminine gender and means “punishment, chastening, correction, to cut-off as in pruning a tree to bare more fruit.” “Aionion” is the adjective form of “aion,” in the singular form and means “pertaining to an eon or age, an indeterminate period of time.” (Note: the two words in many, not all translations become reversed when bringing the Greek into English, that is, “kolasin aionion” literally punishment everlasting is reversed to everlasting punishment so as to make better sense in English.)
“Aionion,” as shown above, is the singular form of the adjective of the Greek noun “aion.” Many people unfamiliar with the Greek do not realize that the endings of the same word change (inflection) to indicate its mood, case, gender, etc. Therefore, “aionion” may appear with different endings. “Aionion, aioniou, aionios,” for example, are all different inflections of the adjective form of the noun “aion.”
The noun “aion” in Greek literature has always meant “an indeterminate period of time. It could be as short as the time Jonah spent in the belly of a fish (three days or nights even though the KJV has him in the “belly of Hell” “forever,” obviously a mistranslation; see Jonah 2:2, 2:6.), the length of a man’s life, or as long as an age.
The Bible speaks of at least 5 “aions” and perhaps many more. If there were “aions” in the past, then aions must have an end. The New Testament writers spoke of “the present wicked aion” which ended during that very generation. Obviously, it was followed by another “aion”– the “aion” in which we presently live. If there are “aions” to come, it must mean that this one we live in will also end.
There is a verse which says “the consummation of the aions” proving that each “aion” ends. So how can they be eternal?
There is “the coming eon” (Matt.10:30, Luke 18:30
There is “the present wicked eon” (Gal.1:4)
There is “the oncoming eons (future)(Eph.2:7)
There is “the conclusion of the eon (present) (Mt.13:39,40)
There is “the secret concealed from the eons (past) (Eph.3:9)Plainly, the Greek word “aion” transliterated “eon” cannot mean “eternal.” A study into the Greek of the Biblical period and before will bear this out.
“Aionion” is the adjective of the noun “aion.”
Since grammar rules mandate an adjective CANNOT take on a greater force than its noun form, it is evident that “aionion” in any of its adjective forms (ios, ou, on) CANNOT possible mean “everlasting” or anything remotely indicating eternity or unending time.
For example, “hourly” cannot mean “pertaining to days, weeks, months, or years. The word MUST mean “pertaining to an hour.” Therefore, “aionion,” the adjective form of the noun “aion” which clearly means a period of indeterminate TIME, CANNOT mean, “forever and ever, eternal, everlasting, eternity, etc.” or other words which connote timelessness or unending ages.
Therefore, those many Bibles which do NOT contain the teaching of everlasting punishment or Hell are true to the original languages of Greek and Hebrew. Those which teach everlasting punishment or Hell are false. Scholars are just as easily subjected to the “traditions of the elders” as the rest of us. It’s time to let the original Greek and Hebrew languages of the Bible break down the traditions of men.
Here is a list of Bibles which have taken major steps towards correcting many of the corruptions found in the King James Bible, NIV, NASB, NRSV, Amplified, as well as other leading selling Bibles:
Some of them are published by leading Evangelical Christian publishers like Baker Book House, Kregal and Eerdman’s Publishing. Here’s a partial list of some English Bible translations that do NOT contain Hell nor the concept of everlasting punishment: Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible (Kregal Publishers), Young’s Literal Translation of the Holy Bible (Baker Book House Publishers; Robert Young is author of the famous Young’s Concordance), Concordant Literal Translation of the N.T. (Concordant Publishing Concern), Scarlet’s New Testament (Nathaniel Scarlett, 1798), The New Testament (Abner Kneeland, 1823) Emphatic Diaglott (Greek/English Interlinear), The New Covenant (J.W. Hanson, 1884), New Testament in Modern Speech (Weymouth, 1910), The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible (1976), The Twentieth Century New Testament (1900), The New Testament of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed (James L. Tomanek)1958), The Western New Testament (1926), The New Testament, a Translation (Rev. Edgar Lewis Clementson, 1938), The People’s New Testament (Arthur Overbury), The New Testament, A New Translation based upon the Oldest Manuscripts (Johannes Greber, 1980) Jonathan Mitchell New Testament (2009) Far Above All New Testament (2009).
There are other translations like the Companion Bible King James Version, American Standard Version (1901), the Newberry Reference Bible (Still published by Kregal Publications), and the Riverside New Testament by Ballantine (1934) which contain footnotes, marginal readings and appendages which point out that several key Greek and Hebrew words have been MIStranslated by such Bible versions as the King James Bible.”
The verse according to a DIRECT LITERAL translation of the Greek: (Rotherhams):
Mat 25:46 And, these, shall go away, into, age-abiding, correction, but, the righteous, into, age-abiding, life.
I will add as well that the LIFE in this verse doesn’t end, BECAUSE it’s sealed with Christ and we “put on immortality” – 1Co 15:54 THAT IS WHY it never ends. Judgement has a purpose however and that purpose REACHES IT’S GOAL…the CHASTISEMENT ENDS.
God bless Nick
Hi Anthony,
It is good that you understand the teachings of the Spirit in Mt 25.
But you prefer the teachings of the ear ticklers?
Nick….Those who have ears to hear, hear the spirit of truth, so where does that leave you?, would be the better question.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Hi Gene,
If today you hear His voice harden not your heart.
The road to destruction is wide and many choose it.
Hi Anthony,
You would offer the catholic teaching of PURGATORY as a substitute for the SECOND DEATH, THE LAKE OF FIRE.?
Tickle tickle
Hi Nick
You said: It is good that you understand the teachings of the Spirit in Mt 25.
I say “thanks Nick” .what about yourself what do you not belive? I’d rather ask that because there not much you do believe. God bless Nick
Hi Anthony,
Carnal men are ruled by fear of death and judgement and what awaits the unbelievers.
But those in Jesus have already passed from death to life.
He is the door to eternal life.
Seek life.
Hi Anthony,
Your teaching of universalism denies the saving work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
It denies the worth of his suffering and his death for us.
It denies the salvation plan of God.
It is of the pit.
Hi Nick you deny the saving work of the Lord Jesus Christ. Everything about it.
Greeting
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Redemption in Christ
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He [a]made us accepted in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and [b]prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, [c]both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Prayer for Spiritual Wisdom
15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of your [f]understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,21 far above all principality[g] and [h]power and [i]might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.
22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who is fills all in all. God bless
Hi Nick
9 For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of
Hiswill in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fru loitful in every goodworkand increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy; 12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and [c]conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption [d]through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation .16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether it or dominions or [e]principalities or [f]powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
Reconciled in Christ
19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Sacrificial Service for Christ
24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, 25 of which I became a minister according to the [g]stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God, 26 the [h]mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles:[i]which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. 29 To this end I also labor, striving according to His working which works in me mightily. God bless.
Nick . there’s nothing here that you’ve done or said. I think you ought to get down off your high horse. Nick it’s All HIM not you. You need alittle less of self and a whole lot more of HIM, it’s All Him. We had nothing what so ever with HIS plans through out the ages. God bless.
Nick…You sit in your high tower you have made for yourself, shooting firey darts at the brethern, trying to make “yourself” out to be a man of truth, while others are not, who made you a judge over God’s heritage, have you not read,
Luk 17:1-2 …. Then said he unto the deciples, “It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him “through whom” they come. 2..It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend (prevent) one of these little ones”.
If you disagree with what is said, then produce you explanation for it, but words dealing with a persons spirituality only brings doubts on your own, who are you that judges another mans servant, unto his own master he will stand or fall, not by you NICK.
We all need to be more careful on what we say, and also how we say it, least we offend (prevent) anyone Nick. We will be held acountable for “every word” we speak, we are told.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
