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Hi All,
Rev 16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
Me: Click on the link below. Click on 2378 above “the”, the second word of the sentence. One of the definitions is “under”.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/16-4.htm
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Me: The angels under the altar in Rev 16:7 are where the saints that were beheaded in Rev 6:9. Both are with the Messiah in heaven. I believe that the Altar symbolizes the sacrifice of Christ. The angels rendered the judgment upon the earth.
Me: Click on the link below. The click on 373 above “they shall rest”:
Definition
to give rest, give intermission from labor, by impl. refreshNASB Translation
give…rest (1), refresh (1), refreshed (3), rest (3), resting (2), rests (1), take your ease (1).Me: There is no definition that says death. Know there are different degrees of rest. They still rest in Christ after the resurrection of their bodies, for they always will have peace.
Heb 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Me: The promise land is a type of heavenly reward. We enter our rest into Christ at our resurrection from the dead, i.e. from being baptized (die in the Lord) in the holy spirit. We cannot die in the Lord unless the Lord first existed. We die in the Lord from Pentecost.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.
Me: Click on the link below. Then click on 1510 above “we will be”.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/6-5.htm
NASB Translation
accompanied* (1), accompany* (2), am (138), amount (1), amounts (1), appear* (1), asserted* (1), become* (5), been (45), been* (1), being (26), belong (3), belonged* (1), belonging (1), belonging* (1), belongs (4), bring* (1), came (1), come (5), consist (1), crave* (1), depends* (1), do (1), done* (1), exist (3), existed (4), existed* (1), falls (1), found (1), had (8), happen (4), have (2), have come (1), lived (1), mean (1), mean* (2), means (7), meant (2), originate (1), owns (1), remain (3), remained (1), rest (1), sided (1), stayed (2), themselves (1), there (6), turn (1).Me: We are resurrected with him spiritually at the baptism of the holy spirit.
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Me: Notice “their works do follow them” pertain to those in the spirit that exists.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear (5319) what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Me: Notice “now are we the sons of God” and “see him as he is” in 1 John 3:2. We shall appear (5319) like Christ is Christ is in bodily form.
1 Thes 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall “appear” (5319) first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Me: “the dead in Christ” in verse 16 are those that “sleep in Christ” in verse 14. They have died in spirit to self and live now in Christ. Their bodies are dead until the appearing of Christ at the first resurrection. Those alive are also dead spiritually to Christ. They are alive in their physical bodies. They must die to their physical bodies to obtain new bodies of the form of their own bodies. It is appointed to all men to die at least once (Heb 9:27).
Click on the link below: Then click on 450 above “will rise”. One of the definitions is “appear”. This fits in with “appear” in 1 John 3:2 above.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_thessalonians/4-16.htm
c. to raise up, cause to be born: σπέρμα offspring (Genesis 38:8), Matthew 22:24 (cf. Winer’s Grammar, 33 (32)); τόν Χριστόν, Acts 2:30 Rec. to cause to appear, bring forward, τινα τίνι one for anyone’s succor: προφήτην, Acts 3:22; Acts 7:37; τόν παῖδα αὐτοῦ, Acts 3:26.
“appear” (5319) in 1 Thes 4:16 is emphasis mine.
He All,
Forgot to add link from the above passage reprinted below with the link.
Me: Click on the link below. The click on 373 above “they shall rest”:
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/6-11.htm
Definition
to give rest, give intermission from labor, by impl. refresh
NASB Translation
give…rest (1), refresh (1), refreshed (3), rest (3), resting (2), rests (1), take your ease (1).Me: There is no definition that says death. Know there are different degrees of rest. They still rest in Christ after the resurrection of their bodies, for they always will have peace.
Hi Edj
I believe all good except 2.
Roman 8:9 (a) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. (b) Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Me: Verse 9b is a continuation of thought from 8b. The spirit of Christ is the spirit of God after Christ existed.
Hi TruthComber,
Are you suggesting that the HolySpirit that descended on Christ
at the Jordan river was (according to you) not the Spirit of God?Hi Gene
We where talking alittle about the seventy weeks of Daniel. I read this book awhile ago I thought it was a good study one of the best I found.
Hi Anthony, looks like you never found this video…
Here a video that accurately explains the 70 weeks of Daniel:
Hi Ed
You: Are you suggesting that the Holy Spirit that descended on Christ
at the Jordan river was (according to you) not the Spirit of God?Me: Of course not. I had never said that. I am a little perturbed about people on this form accusing me of saying things I have never stated. I have tried my best to explain myself. I have said implicitly or explicitly that the Messiah was born with the holy spirit as his only spirit in his human heart and mind. He is the son of God. He had lived with the holy spirit as his only spirit. He had died with the holy spirit that went back to his father. He was resurrected with the holy spirit as his only spirit. I believe, and hope I have presented scripture to more than suggest this.
Christ had received the empowerment of the holy spirit at Jordon. He now had more power than before. He had more of the holy spirit than before Jordon. The baptism of John the Baptist was one of repentance. I believe the Messiah did it as part of ritual, for he was still under the law. No one could be baptized with the holy spirit before Pentecost. How could they? Christ had not died yet. When one is baptized with the holy spirit, they are bury with Christ. Then they are resurrected with him with their sins paid for through the holy spirit. The sacrifice of animals could not do that. When the saints had died before the ascension, the holy spirit went back to God. Their human spirit died. It did not go back to God. Their is only one spirit in the end, the holy spirit. The saints from John back had received the holy spirit, but they were not baptized with the holy spirit. The holy spirit with the heart and mind of Christ was work in process from his birth and was completed at his ascension into heaven. That is why no one could receive the holy spirit between Christ’s birth and his ascension into heaven. I believe the baptism of repentance was a rain check. If you had died before the resurrection, you could still be saved as if you had been baptized in the name of Christ after Pentecost. That is the case of the thief on the cross. He had not been baptized with water nor with the holy spirit, but he had called upon the name of the Lord to save him, as you do when you are water baptized.
The rest of mankind resurrect from the dead have their human spirits regenerated again. They can then go through the same process as we do.
Anyway, this is what I believe.
P.S. The apostles had received the holy spirit after Christ’s resurrection but not with the sacrifice of Christ in it and with power until Pentecost (John 20:22). Christ, a human, was now part of the holy spirit in heart and mind. Therefore, we humans greatly benefit from this in understanding, among other greater things as having our sins forgiven and being able now to ascend into heaven at our deaths.
Hi All,
With a little help from God, I believe that the baptism at Jordon was a type of the baptism of the holy spirit at and after Pentecost. The apostles had received the holy spirit at John 20:22. They received the holy spirit with power at Pentecost. Christ had the holy spirit before Jordan. He receive power of the holy spirit at Jordan.
Hi All
Now notice how Jesus himself describes death-
John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
John 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
John 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
John 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.Mat 9:24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.
Mark 5:39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.
Luke 8:52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
Luke 8:53 And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.In Jesus own words above, death is described to be like a sleep.
Job 14:10 NIV But man dies and is laid low; he breathes his last and is no more.
Job 14:11 As water disappears from the sea or a riverbed becomes parched and dry,
Job 14:12 so man lies down and does not rise; till the heavens are no more, men will not awake or be roused from their sleep.Psa 13:3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;
James 4:14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
God bless
Edj….That guy has every thing mixed up. The seventy week prophecy of DANIEL “only” deals with the destruction of JERUSALEM and TEMPLE, the despursment of the Jew’s, and the birth of the Messiah JESUS. It had nothing to do with the end times when Jesus reappears on the earth again.
It has nothing to do with the Antichrist, nor the “Man of Sin” either.
The placement of the great tribulation takes place at the end of the thousand year rein of Jesus and the saints. To place that tribulation, you have got to go from the time period shown i revelations, there are seven beasts (kingdoms on this earth prophecied ) remenber what it says, “five are fallen, one IS, and one is to come. The Five that are fallen was beforw the return of Jesus, the one that IS, is the kingdom of Jesus and the saints, and the one to come is that kingdom that will arise after satan is released out of the bottomless pit, which takes place after the thousand year reign of Jesus and the saints. That sets the time of those prophecies, the “one that is” is the key to unlock the time of those events.
Peace and love to you and yours. ..gene..
Hi Anthony,
All truth which you have stated–with one condition. This is before Pentecost–even those saints that were awakened from their “sleep” at the time the of Christ’s death (Matt 27:52).
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Me: Click on the link below. Then click on 530 above “once”.
Short Definition: once, once for all
Definition: once, once for all.https://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/9-27.htm
Me: The definition that fits is “once for all.”.
Thus:
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once for all to die, but after this the judgment:
Me: After Pentecost, No one rose from the dead. The saints that died after Pentecost go straight to heaven in spirit. They have died to the flesh once and for all. They have died to self. The saints that died before Pentecost are baptized in the holy spirit in the grave. Their sins are then paid for. They resurrect spiritually with Christ into heaven. They are now sons of God. They do not resurrect or appear anymore as physical beings.
All receive new bodies at Christ’s return.
Hi Anthony,
The saints that died before Pentecost, and those that died after Pentecost do not sleep in the dust of the earth from Pentecost. They are with the Lord in heaven. They receive new bodies at Christ’s return.
Hi All. This is were some say that our soul lives on, and just our bodies die. ( Pentecost )
The Coming of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2
2 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all [a]with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them [b]divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
The Crowd’s Response
5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. 7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own [c]language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and [d]Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” 12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?”
13 Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.”
Peter’s Sermon
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only[e]the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
21 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.’22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you [f]have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having [g]loosed the [h]pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him:
‘I foresaw the Lord always before my face,
For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad;
Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
27 For You will not leave my soulin Hades,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the ways of life;
You will make me full of joy in Your presence.’29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, [i]according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted [j]to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
34 “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” ’36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the [k]remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
A Vital Church Grows
40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this [l]perverse generation.” 41 Then those who [m]gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ [n]doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. 44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, 45 and [o]sold their possessions and goods, and divided[p] them among all, as anyone had need.
46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added [q]to the church daily those who were being saved. God is good
TC….There has not been any resurection taken place but Jesus, the rest of the chosen raise to meet the lord at his comming. That is the firstfurits, of them that sleep the sleep of death.
Anthony has it right brother.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Hi Gene,
You: TC….There has not been any resurection taken place but Jesus, the rest of the chosen raise to meet the lord at his coming. That is the firstfurits, of them that sleep the sleep of death.
Anthony has it right brother.Me: Nope, you both have it wrong.
1 Cor 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
Me: I have explained this already. “own order” is unique to oneself. After Pentecost, the spiritual resurrection for saints occurs after death for each saint. Firstfruits are those that resurrect before the rest of mankind. Those at his coming are the rest of mankind.
At this point, there seems to be no reconciliation of what you believe and what I believe. So be it.
Hi TC the soul is a living being and it dies because the wages of sin is death. The Spirit of the Father, that gave us, goes back to Himself. Yes the Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of the Father and His Son. There only one Spirit. Not two. The Soul is a living being. Man became a soul. I think you getting messed up with thinking of the false doctorine, that man is made up of three parts: spirit, soul and body. Scriptures teaches that man has two parts. Body and Spirit.That the Father gave us.( Nothing is ours it’s All His.) Well next if you don’t mind I was going to show you the prophesy of Joel. Seeing that the day of Pentecost speaks of Joel prophesy in ( Joel 2 ) . God bless.
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