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Hi Ed,
We know that Jesus was CONCEIVED of the HOLY SPIRIT in Mary.
Soo how does this fit with your idea of a preexistent spirit being born of Mary?
Hi LU,
So a man was conceived in Mary as a vessel.
And the Spirit was later placed into the vessel?
At the Jordan perhaps?
Jesus came in the flesh. The Word became flesh. The Word was WITH God. God made all through his Word. God made all through his son. It is written. We cannot pretend it is not written.
Hi T8,
John the Baptist was conceived in Elizabeth.
Jesus was conceived in Mary.
Same Greek words.
Do you agree?
T8….GOD AND HIS WORD ARE ONE AND THE SAME THING, JUST AS YOUR WORD AND YOU ARE ALSO. JESUS himself is NOT, GOD’S WORD, GOD WHO IS SPIRIT WAS (IN) the (MAN) JESUS SPEAKING TO THROUGH HIM. None of that ever made Jesus a God of anykind, no more than the WORD OF GOD made the prophets Gods, even though God also spoke through them,
Isa 44.24…Thus says the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed you from the womb, I am the LORD that makes (ALL) things; that stretches forth the heavens (ALONE); that spreads the earth (BY MYSELF).
Isa 44:8…Fear you not, neither be afraid: have not I told you from that time, and have declared it? You are even my witnesses? Is there a God beside me? Yea there is (NO) God; I know not (ANY).
Strange God the Father dosen’t know, that there is another God, but himself, but people here say there is another.
I wonder who we are to believe them or God?
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Edj…BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD REVEALING TRUTH IN MY MIND. “FREEWILL”, IS A “OXYMORON”, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT, SEENING NO SCHUCH THING EXISTS.
Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
Good Morning LU,
I think you must have missed practically everything that I have posted, lol.
Have I not talked about God’s plan from the beginning?
Have I not talked about the promises that God gave the prophets?
Have I not quoted 1 Corinthians 15 several times, and also quoted Romans 5!!
Have you bothered to read 1 Corinthians 15 or Romans 5??, maybe you have but it’s vanity to you as it is not one of the scriptures you deem as foundational, so you just ignore it.
When you don’t agree on a verse, that is when you use more verses to prove that your understanding of the other verse is correct.
LU PLEASE tell me how the below scriptures FIT into your theology?
1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, WHO IS THE FIGURE of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Titus 1: 2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
LU you seem to clearly IGNORE the PLAN of God that He had before He made the worlds.
XXXXXXX My God is ALL KNOWING, He doesn’t do do-overs, He knows the future.XXXXXXX
1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Did Adam have a history of men trying to follow their own path?
Did Adam have the law of which men tried to follow and failed?
Did Adam have the prophets and scriptures to read and learn from?
Adam wasn’t even a prophet himself.
Jesus learned from the prophets, and was a prophet himself.
LU why does scripture say that God is LONGSUFFERING towards us not willing to have anyone perish but to have all come to eternal life?
To create mankind and give them their own minds and imaginations, so that they are not puppets or robots, and then to bring them to righteousness and eternal life, took a PLAN that NEEDED TIME.
Jesus was NOT BORN perfected, He BECAME perfected when he gave his ultimate showing of faith to his God, when he followed the will of his God to the cross.
We are clearly told Adam was a figure of him that was to come, and Paul further explains what that means, that God had planned before the time of mankind began that there would be ONE MAN that brought sin and death, and then there would COME ONE Man to bring righteousness and Eternal Life.
Paul also tells us that Jesus was born a natural man and he BECAME a spiritual man, because FIRST is the natural then afterwards is the spiritual.
I would think that a verse that came hundreds of years before, would be considered the framework for understanding verses that which came much later. This is exactly the problem with the so called “early church fathers”, they cared less about the OT, and much MORE about fitting the NT into their preconceived ideas about gods and their beliefs in pagan philosophies.
This to me would be considered a FOUNDATIONAL SCRIPTURE,
Psalms 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. 5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. 6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE.
And likewise these scriptures,
Isaiah 11: 1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Psalm 89:18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king. 19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people. 20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him: 21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him. 22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him. 23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him. 24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
27 Also I will MAKE him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him. 29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven. 30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; 31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; 32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
What you seem to really fail at in your understanding is to know that God had promised before He created the heavens and earth eternal life for the HUMANS that He was going to create.
You seem to fail to understand that He knew EVERYTHING AHEAD of TIME, that He knew because He planned it, that there would be ONE MAN that would bring sin and death, and this was a figure of another MAN who He would raise up from Israel from the tribe of Judah from David’s seed, who would bring righteousness and eternal life. Through this MAN God created the worlds, this MAN was to BECOME the FIRSTFRUITS of God’s Spirit. Everything God had made was through the knowledge of the coming of the Sons of God.
2 Samuel 7: 12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to BECOME the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Please explain how these scriptures fit into your theology LU?
Hi T8,
You got it wrong when you said that JESUS CAME IN THE FLESH.
Scripture says that JESUS CHRIST has come in the flesh.
Scripture focuses on the anointing and not on the man.
And so Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever
We no longer speak of Christ according to the flesh. 2 Cor 5 But you do.
Jodi and Nick….it isn’t that they have not had the truth presented to themm by you and Nick and myself, that has nothing to do with it.
They have long ago rejected those clearly written scriptures we present, because the “truth of God” is not “in” them, or they would have loved what we have written to them. AGAIN, they have long ago rejected them or they would not be holding on to their positions, they can’t even take one or two of those scriptures and even think they may be wrong.
This is just a waste of time, let the dead bury the dead? The “ONLY ” GAIN IS IT SHARPENS US UP, FOR THE FUTURE.
YOU and Nick are doing a great job here, may our one true GOD, continue to teach and strengthen us together in the truth and the faith of Jesus our soon comming world ruler, yes our comming KING, but better yet our heavenly BROTHER, who truly is one of us.
He is by no means our God, because we have a God, and it is the same God, Jesus our brother has, and the same Father also, he has.We must hang on to the end, and we will recieve the honour and glory, and inherit eternal life, just as Our brother has. What the father did “in” Jesus he is also doing “in” us, lets not lose site of that.
Peace and love to you both and yours. …….gene
Hi T8
Rev 19.11
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called faithful and true
and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. his eyes were as a flame of fire,
and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written , that no man knew , but he himself
And he was clothed in a vestige dipped in blood; and his name is called the Word of God.
Somehow you seem to think that the Word which was with God in the beginning
was, at that time, the man Jesus. No the Word was made flesh at the Jordan.
LU, DO YOU REALLY UNDERSTAND THE SECOND (MAN) IS THE lord, Or a GOD. HERE IS A SCRIPTURE WHICH MAY THROUGH YOU INTO CONFUSION OF WHAT YOU SAID. ”GOD IS (NOT) A MAN THAT HE SHOULD LIE, NOR A SON OF (MAM) THAT HE SHOULD REPENT.
SEEMS YOU HAVE ANOTHER DELIMA ON YOU HANDS, YOU SAY JESUS YOU LORD IS YOU JOHOVAH GOD, BUT JOHOVAH GOD SAYS HE IS (NOT) A MAN. How do you rectify that in you mind LU.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Hi LU,
Yes the human vessel formed in Mary later housed the Word of God.
Jesus was made both Lord and Christ.
Acts 2.36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God hath made that same Jesus,
whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Gene,
I believe the second man is the Lord from heaven, the Lord of all, the Lord of lords, the LORD our Righteousness.
Nick,
The heavenly Son was brought forth into the womb of Mary when she conceived by the Holy Spirit and filled the vessel of His flesh. John the Baptist, while in the womb knew this, but you don’t, why not?
LU you said, 1 cor 15:47 … the second man is the Lord from heaven. This fits with my theology perfectly.”
Yes you sure are denying scripture, you have pulled this verse and taken it out from the surrounding text to make it fit into your pagan doctrine, and seem to blatantly ignore other scriptures.
You have not applied what the word says both BEFORE and AFTER that!! The way you handle scripture is disgusting.
23 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
LU do you even know what the firstfruits represents? It means he received something of which MADE him heavenly, and that something was the Spirit of God.
Isaiah 42: 1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Jesus was MADE INTO our master, and he sits at the right hand of God and he is coming down a son of man. That is scriptural FACT.
The word of God says that He would put his Spirit upon the seed of David, and AFTER that he would bring judgment to the Gentiles, thus because then he would have been MADE a master and able to judge.
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath MADE that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
LU how can you read verse 47 and not apply it to 46?
Jesus was born of the seed of David, he was tempted as we are tempted, he was in all ways flesh just like us, born natural ABLE to DIE, the natural is FIRST THEN the SPIRITUAL, as he was raised the firstborn of the dead and was MADE a MASTER.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
The SECOND man sits at God’s right hand, he was MADE a master, he is NOW our master from heaven. As we bore the image of the first man we will bare the image of the second man.
LU you completely DENY what this passage is telling you,
You interpret the verse as saying that the Lord from heaven became the second man., fully denying 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
The second MAN is the same as the NEW MAN, of which was a CREATION of God that occurred in a MAN, this MAN is worthy of being a lord, that is why we are specifically told that Jesus who was born of the seed of David that was promised to come, was MADE into a master. He did not pre-exist as a master.
That which you speak is blasphemous against the Holy Spirit, as the Spirit MADE Jesus into a new man and into a master who now is able to sit at the right hand of God in heaven, being a lord from heaven, who will come down as the Son of God who is still a Son of man. But you say that a pre-existing son was already a master from heaven. You deny and speak against the Spirit and God’s work in man.
Isaiah 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
Here is Jesus quoting that scripture. LU, Isaiah’s words that were fulfilled in the man of the seed of David, UTTERLY DESTROYS your belief that Jesus created the earth.
Luke 4: 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
It is one thing when a person is ignorant to scripture it is a completely different story when a person makes it appear as if they are reading scripture, but they are doing nothing but denying it.
Jodi,
I am sure that bothers you that Jesus is the Lord from heaven. He is who He is…the Lord of lords, the Lord of all, Jehovah our Righteousness. He became man also. It’s in your Bible that you quote. What translation of the Bible do you use? Is it pagan too? I took those words out of your translation. You don’t have to like it.
Hi LU,
John was filled with the prophetic Spirit while yet in the womb.
Scripture does not say that about Jesus
but you believe it anyway?
Lk 1.15
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and he shall drink neither the wine nor strong drink;
and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb.
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