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Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 11 2012,16:53) To all, Here is a study done on the speaking in tongues. It is preliminary with only five subjects.
Quite interesting.Quote (david @ Dec. 11 2012,15:51) Quote David, I don't know if I answered all of your questions with this post. I did not read your long post because I know that the gifts of the Spirit have not ceased, and so, there is no need in my hearing anything that you or anyone else says to the contrary That's ok 94. I didn't read your post either, because like you, I know what I know and don't need to consider anything that might conflict with what I want to believe.
94, do you think that the gift of speaking in “different tongues” (other languages) exists today?
Hi David:If you are speaking of God using a disciple who does not know Russian, speaking to Russian people in that language, for example, it probably would not be necessary for God to do this since there are Russian disciples who can preach the gospel to Russian people.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Dec. 12 2012,13:26) Quote (david @ Dec. 11 2012,15:51) Quote David, I don't know if I answered all of your questions with this post. I did not read your long post because I know that the gifts of the Spirit have not ceased, and so, there is no need in my hearing anything that you or anyone else says to the contrary That's ok 94. I didn't read your post either, because like you, I know what I know and don't need to consider anything that might conflict with what I want to believe.
94, do you think that the gift of speaking in “different tongues” (other languages) exists today?
Hi David:If you are speaking of God using a disciple who does not know Russian, speaking to Russian people in that language, for example, it probably would not be necessary for God to do this since there are Russian disciples who can preach the gospel to Russian people.
Love in Christ,
Marty
EXACTLY. Hence, the need is gone. This is what I have been saying.Back then, there were people who had this miraculous gift where they spoke in different tongue (languages) so that the good news could spread more quickly and get started.
That's not needed anymore.
In fact, the signs of the miraculous gifts that “verify”ied Christianity as having Gods backing are not necessary to do that anymore and have “been done away with” and “cease”ed.
Now, we have the bible. People can read it and put faith in what it says. Back then, people didn't have bibles. Something more was needed to jump start the spread of chrisiptianity.
Now, they are not necessary any more, and so, as you it holy discern, speaking in different tongues (languages) isn't done today. And it's not required.
Quote (david @ Dec. 14 2012,13:05) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 12 2012,13:26) Quote (david @ Dec. 11 2012,15:51) Quote David, I don't know if I answered all of your questions with this post. I did not read your long post because I know that the gifts of the Spirit have not ceased, and so, there is no need in my hearing anything that you or anyone else says to the contrary That's ok 94. I didn't read your post either, because like you, I know what I know and don't need to consider anything that might conflict with what I want to believe.
94, do you think that the gift of speaking in “different tongues” (other languages) exists today?
Hi David:If you are speaking of God using a disciple who does not know Russian, speaking to Russian people in that language, for example, it probably would not be necessary for God to do this since there are Russian disciples who can preach the gospel to Russian people.
Love in Christ,
Marty
EXACTLY. Hence, the need is gone. This is what I have been saying.Back then, there were people who had this miraculous gift where they spoke in different tongue (languages) so that the good news could spread more quickly and get started.
That's not needed anymore.
In fact, the signs of the miraculous gifts that “verify”ied Christianity as having Gods backing are not necessary to do that anymore and have “been done away with” and “cease”ed.
Now, we have the bible. People can read it and put faith in what it says. Back then, people didn't have bibles. Something more was needed to jump start the spread of chrisiptianity.
Now, they are not necessary any more, and so, as you it holy discern, speaking in different tongues (languages) isn't done today. And it's not required.
No, David, the gifts of the spirit are still in operation in the church. But you are correct about the need about the tongues spoken at Pentecost. Even in what is written in the bible, the event of the tongues spoken in the various languages at Pentecost only happened on this one occasion.Love in Christ,
MartyRevelation 5:9; 7:9; 10:11; 11:9; 13:7; 14:6; 17:15
“Tongues” seems to refer to languages. Different tongues means different languages.
There is no trace of Scriptural evidence that tongues were ever heard by anyone as incoherent, incomprehensible babbling.
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not . . . ” (1 Corinthians 14:22
(Miraculously speaking in different languages was a sign for unbelievers, NOT for those that already believed. And certainly someone who was given a miraculous gift of speaking in tongues was a believer)Hi David:
The languages spoken by the Apostles on the day of Pentecost were indeed a sign to unbelievers, but when a person confesses Jesus as Lord, in some instances when they believe with the gospel with a repentant heart, or after they are baptised in water, they receive the Holy Ghost, and speak in tongues, this may be a sign to them and also to someone who is an unbeliever in the congregation or is present when this happens.
Here are some incidents that are recorded in the Acts of the Apostles:
Quote t 10:44 ¶ While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter
Quote Act 19:1 ¶ And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Have you read the 14th chapter of 1 Corinthians?
What about these verses of scripture?
Quote 1Cr 14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. Quote 1Cr 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: (Here the Apostle Paul acknowledges that he speaks in an unknown tongue) 1Cr 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.
But here the Apostle Paul states that the congregation should not speak in an unknown tongue in the church, unless there is someone who can interpret what has been said so that the congregation can understand what has been spoken.
I am dealing with this problem with the congregation and the pastor of the church where I currently worship and where God has shown me that I will be ordained as the overseer of this congregation. They speak in tongues in the church when there is no interpreter, and I have shown them these scriptures, and so, they are rebelling against God's Word.
But all of the gifts of the Spirit should be operating in the church for the purpose of edifying the body of Christ.
Quote 1Cr 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 1Cr 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Cr 12:29 [Are] all apostles? [are] all prophets? [are] all teachers? [are] all workers of miracles?
1Cr 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1Cr 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way
Quote 1Cr 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 1Cr 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Cr 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Cr 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Cr 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
1Cr 12:12 ¶ For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ.
Love in Christ,
MartyYou start with acts 10:44-46.
Acts 10:46: “for they [gentiles] Heard them speaking with tongues…”
I wonder if the Gentiles (non-jews) spoke a language other than the Jews? Probably. So, the use of to guess makes suspense here.
94,
1. Do you think the apostles ever spoke in other languages when they used this gift of tongues?
2. Does this ever happen today?
Quote (david @ Dec. 19 2012,09:32) You start with acts 10:44-46. Acts 10:46: “for they [gentiles] Heard them speaking with tongues…”
I wonder if the Gentiles (non-jews) spoke a language other than the Jews? Probably. So, the use of to guess makes suspense here.
Hi David:Cornelius and his company were the first Gentiles to receive the Holy Ghost, and so, it was not Gentiles who were looking on and heard them speak in tongues and magnify God, it was Jews.
Generally, the Holy Ghost was received after someone was baptized in water in the name of Jesus, but here Cornelius and his company recieved the Holy Ghost the instant they believed the gospel, and it was probably done this way to show that gospel was not only for the Jews but for all that believed with a repentant heart:
Quote Acts 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life
The tongue that they were speaking was an unknown tongue. They were not speaking to man, but magnifying God in this tongue. It is not the same as what happened on the day of Pentecost.
Did the Apostles speak in languages at other times similar to what they did on the day of Pentecost, you ask? If they did, it is not recorded in the scriptures.
Do Christians today speak in languages like they did on the day of Pentecost? I thought we already established that it was not necessary since the gospel has been preached to most nations, and either they teach the people the Word of God in their native tongue, or in some cases someone may teach in english and there may be an interpreter, but do Christians speak to God in an unknown tongue, today, yes they do. I do. And does God speak to a congregation of his people in a tongue when there is someone with the gift of interpretation? Yes, He does.
All of the “gifts of the Spirit” are still in operation the the “true church of the living God”. They are not in operation in a “dead church”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
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