Examination of the incarnation doctrine.

[Pastry]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 25 2011,12:08)

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 25 2011,12:04) Ed!  You know The Word of God who became flesh, the only begotten of the Father….. He is Yashua who's title is The Word of God and God…..I said all of that before… Only I did not say Yashua….. I said who became Jesus, all the same being….Peace Irene Hi Irene, You and me are not on the same page here. Perhaps you should re-read my previous posts again? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed! Lets start over…..
You believe that The Word of God is Gods Holy Spirit. correct??>??
And that Spirit became flesh, correct?
And the only begotten of the Father is Yashua, correct?
Who became flesh, correct?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 24 2011,19:05)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 25 2011,11:53) Actually Ed, I am the one who is still on track.  It IS the Word who became flesh that had the glory of an only begotten from the Father, Ed. Hi Mike, That is until that same glory is revealed in us. (See Romans 8:18 & Hebrews 11:40) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed,

I'm not sure what you're saying here. But it seems that you agree that the Word who became flesh is the one who had the glory of God's only begotten. Is that a correct assumption on my part?

peace,
mike

[Ed J]

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 25 2011,12:21)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 25 2011,12:08) Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 25 2011,12:04) Ed!  You know The Word of God who became flesh, the only begotten of the Father….. He is Yashua who's title is The Word of God and God…..I said all of that before… Only I did not say Yashua….. I said who became Jesus, all the same being….Peace Irene Hi Irene, You and me are not on the same page here. Perhaps you should re-read my previous posts again? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed!  Lets start over….. (1) You believe that The Word of God is Gods Holy Spirit. correct??>?? (2) And that Spirit became flesh, correct?   (3) And the only begotten of the Father is Yashua, correct? (4) Who became flesh, correct?

Hi Irene,

1) Yes
2) Yes, Yes
3) Yes, Yes, Yes
4) We all became flesh.

Have you heard about the hurricane named Irene?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 25 2011,12:23)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 24 2011,19:05) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 25 2011,11:53) Actually Ed, I am the one who is still on track.  It IS the Word who became flesh that had the glory of an only begotten from the Father, Ed. Hi Mike, That is until that same glory is revealed in us. (See Romans 8:18 & Hebrews 11:40) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Hi Ed, I'm not sure what you're saying here.  But it seems that you agree that the Word who became flesh is the one who had the glory of God's only begotten.  Is that a correct assumption on my part? peace, mike

Hi Mike,

The glory as of the only begotten of the Father (John 1:14)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Yes Ed……………..”as of” the only begotten. Go on…………..

[Pastry]

Ed!  Yes, but we did not exist before we became flesh…..

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 25 2011,12:44)

Yes Ed……………..”as of” the only begotten.  Go on…………..

Hi Mike,

Pretty simple really:
The glory is God's, which is first seen in (“Jesus”=74) his “God Son”(74),
then also seen in us. (See Romans 5:2, 8:18, 9:23-24)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 25 2011,12:54)

Ed!  Yes, but we did not exist before we became flesh…..

Hi Irene,

Speak for yourself. (See 2Tm.1:9)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Pastry]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 25 2011,13:07)

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 25 2011,12:54) Ed!  Yes, but we did not exist before we became flesh….. Hi Irene, Speak for yourself. (See 2Tm.1:9) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed!  Then where did you come from?  Not from your Parents?  Jesus was created by Almighty God, not from the dust of the earth like we did….And where is there a Scripture and proof that you existed before????Irene
Ps. That Scripture does not proof you existed before, only that we were predestine to be called….

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 25 2011,20:01)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 25 2011,12:44) Yes Ed……………..”as of” the only begotten.  Go on………….. Hi Mike, Pretty simple really: The glory is God's, which is first seen in (“Jesus”=74) his “God Son”(74), then also seen in us. (See Romans 5:2, 8:18, 9:23-24) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

what is the glory of God ?

Pierre

[Ed J]

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 25 2011,13:16)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 25 2011,13:07) Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 25 2011,12:54) Ed!  Yes, but we did not exist before we became flesh….. Hi Irene, Speak for yourself. (See 2Tm.1:9) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (1) Ed!  Then where did you come from?  (2) Not from your Parents?  (3) Jesus was created by Almighty God, (4) not from the dust of the earth like we did….(5) And where is there a Scripture and proof that you existed before????Irene (6) Ps. That Scripture does not proof you existed before, only that we were predestine to be called….

Hi Irene,

1) YHVH
2) Through my parents.
3) Are you talking about being created in Mary's womb?
4) Adam came from dust, I came by way of my parents.
5) 2Timothy 1:9, John 15:27, Jeremiah 1:5, Jude 1:12.
6) What scripture are you referring to?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2011,13:22)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 25 2011,20:01) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 25 2011,12:44) Yes Ed……………..”as of” the only begotten.  Go on………….. Hi Mike, Pretty simple really: The glory is God's, which is first seen in (“Jesus”=74) his “God Son”(74), then also seen in us. (See Romans 5:2, 8:18, 9:23-24) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj what is the glory of God ? Pierre

Hi Pierre,

dignity, glory, honor, praise, worship.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 24 2011,10:26)

Kerwin Quote I believe Jesus is called the Word of God in Revelations 19 because he is the incarnation of the Word of God.   In John 1:1+  speaks of God being the incarnation of the Word,  The Spirit beeing with God being the incarnation of the Word, and Jesus becomming the incarnation of the Word. are you a believer in reincarnation ? Pierre

Pierre,

I did not use the word reincarnation. I used the word “incarnation” in its meaning as “a concrete or actual form of a quality or concept; especially: a person showing a trait or typical character to a marked degree.”

The example of this provided by Merriam-Webster’s online dictionary is “she is the incarnation of goodness”

In the same way Jesus, God, and the Spirit of God are all incarnations of The Word of God.

Other words that mean the same thing are manifestation and embodiment.

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 25 2011,20:50)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2011,13:22) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 25 2011,20:01) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 25 2011,12:44) Yes Ed……………..”as of” the only begotten.  Go on………….. Hi Mike, Pretty simple really: The glory is God's, which is first seen in (“Jesus”=74) his “God Son”(74), then also seen in us. (See Romans 5:2, 8:18, 9:23-24) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj what is the glory of God ? Pierre Hi Pierre, dignity, glory, honor, praise, worship. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

NO to all ,

you have to think more

Pierre

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 25 2011,22:14)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 24 2011,10:26) Kerwin Quote I believe Jesus is called the Word of God in Revelations 19 because he is the incarnation of the Word of God.   In John 1:1+  speaks of God being the incarnation of the Word,  The Spirit beeing with God being the incarnation of the Word, and Jesus becomming the incarnation of the Word. are you a believer in reincarnation ? Pierre Pierre, I did not use the word reincarnation.  I used the word “incarnation” in its meaning as “a concrete or actual form of a quality or concept; especially: a person showing a trait or typical character to a marked degree.”   The example of this provided by Merriam-Webster’s online dictionary is “she is the incarnation of goodness” In the same way Jesus, God, and the Spirit of God are all incarnations of The Word of God. Other words that mean the same thing are manifestation and embodiment.

Kerwin

Ancient Egypt

The Pharaohs of Ancient Egypt were sometimes said to be incarnations of the gods Horus and Ra.
[edit]Bahá'í

Further information: God in the Bahá'í Faith
In the Bahá'í Faith, God is described as a single, imperishable God, the creator of all things, including all the creatures and forces in the universe. The connection between God and the world is that of the creator to his creation.[2] God is understood to be independent of his creation, and that creation is dependent and contingent on God. God, however, is not seen to be incarnated into this world and is not seen to be part of creation as he cannot be divided and does not descend to the condition of his creatures. Instead, in the Bahá'í understanding, the world of creation emanates from God, in that all things have been realized by him and have attained to existence.[3] The Bahá'í concept of the intermediary between God and humanity is expressed in the term Manifestation of God, which are a series of personages, such as Jesus and Bahá'u'lláh, who reflect the attributes of the divine into the human world for the progress and advancement of human morals and civilization.[4] In expressing God's intent, these Manifestations are seen to establish religion in the world.[4] The Manifestations of God are also not seen as an incarnation of God, but are instead understood to be like a perfect mirror reflecting the attributes of God onto this material world.[4][5]
[edit]Buddhism

Illustration of the Ashoka Chakra, as depicted on the National flag of the Republic of India.
See also: Rebirth (Buddhism)
In the teaching of the Buddha sentient beings incarnate due to the psychological factors of ignorance, craving and clinging which results in the phenomenon of becoming and rebirth. To be born human is considered a great privilege because unlike other mammals even a person of average intelligence with sufficient effort and proper guidance can walk the path of dharma and become liberated from the cycle of rebirth. The motive force in the process of material incarnation and becoming (popularly known as 'life') is attachment to and identification with matter. This ignorance gives rise to the volitional factors which are called sankharas. These sankharas through the infinite possibilities of worldly desires propel the human being through the pattern of repeated birth and death until the dawning of wisdom (awakening) brings about the desire for liberation.
According to Buddha's teaching the soul (as that structure of sankharas that gives rise to incarnation and animates the body during 'life') is not a fixed entity but in a state of constant flux – being modified over time by actions of body, speech and mind. The constant transmutation and interdependence of phenomena mean that nothing can be said in terms of ultimate truth to have a fixed identity. This is the doctrine of anatta, the no-self doctrine applying to all phenomena (see Three marks of existence).
Liberation in Buddhism is achieved when the stock of accumulated sankharas buried in the unconscious have been dissolved through the practise of the Noble Eightfold Path, a path leading to the experience called enlightenment (Bodhi in Sanskrit and Pali). At enlightenment all the causes for future rebirth have been deleted and the sage abides in a state of being called deathlessnes (Amaravati or Amrta). Such a one – called an arahant or Buddha is no longer destined for reincarnation after death.
In Tibetan Buddhism, an enlightened spiritual teacher (lama) may choose to reincarnate after death in order to continue to help people. Such a teacher is called a tulku.
[edit]Christianity

Christ Pantocrator, God incarnate in the Christian faith, shown in a mosaic from Daphni, Greece, ca. 1080-1100.
Main article: Incarnation (Christianity)
The Incarnation of Christ is a central Christian doctrine that God became flesh, assumed a human nature, and became a man in the form of Jesus Christ, the Son of God and the second person of the Trinity. This foundational Christian position holds that the divine nature of the Son of God was perfectly united with human nature in one divine Person, Jesus, making him both truly God and truly man. The theological term for this is hypostatic union: the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, God the Son, became flesh when he was miraculously conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary.[6] Biblical passages traditionally referenced in connection with the doctrine of the Incarnation include John 1:14 and Colossians 2:9.
[edit]Hinduism

Varaha, the boar avatar of Vishnu
Main article: Avatar
In Hinduism, incarnation generally refers to an Avatar of Vishnu, the preserver in the Trimurti. Collectively, the 10 avatars of Vishnu are known as the dashavatara. Ganesha and Shiva also have avatars.
[edit]Islam

[edit]Mainstream Islam
Mainstream Islam completely rejects the doctrine of the incarnation of God in any form, as the concept is defined as Shirk. In mainstream Islam God is one and “neither begets nor is begotten”.[7] Islam specifically rejects the Christian idea of Jesus as a divine incarnation, but rather Jesus is seen as a prophet (nabī) and messenger (rasūl) of God. The Qur'anic text itself seems to fully reject this concept according to mainstream interpretations. Sunnism is the most prominent sect to hold this belief.
[edit]Shiite sects
There are some hadiths which tell that Muhammad and his successors carry a divine succession from God.[clarification needed] Although not all Shiites claim this view, a rare few think that Imam Ali, believed to be the real caliph after Muhammad, was an incarnation of God and also he is the god(ali).[clarification needed] . This view is vigorously rejected by Sunnis and other shias..[clarification needed] The only conflict source between sunnis and shias is believing that imam ali be the real caliph after Muhammad in the view of shias and the acceptance of 12 “imam's” “welayah”. However, some Muslims called “wahabi” say some tales about shias incarnation thought for making division between shias and sunnis that they call brothers in quran. They also accuse shias of worshiping metals and woods. But shias only use them as “tabarrok” just like “hazrate zahra
“(Muhammad's daughter) that she use “tabarrok” first. In shias philosophy, tabarrok is for showing your love to “ahle beit” and requesting “shafa'at” from them because they believe that ahle beyt where the best God created and they use this method to have better connection to Allah or they use this method it when they do sins and want to request “maghferat” from God they believe its easier to go from this method.
[edit]Alawis
The Alawi of Syria encompass Muhammad, Allah and Ali in a trinity based from Christianity..[clarification needed]
[edit]Ismailism
The Aga Khan is the leader of the Ismailis and is believed that only he can fully understand and interpret the Quran. The Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims take the Aga Khan as an Imam (spiritual leader). In the Shia tariqah the Light Of God (Noor) has always been present. The Islamic prophet Muhammed had this Noor. There is a Hadith stating that Muhammad said “Ali and I are from the same Noor”. Aga Khan is the direct descendant of Muhammad through Imam Ali and Bibi Fatima. The Noor has been passed down since there needs to be a guide present at all times to interpret the Quran and give guidance according to the time..[clarification needed]
[edit]Nation of Islam
The founder of the US-based black nationalist Nation of Islam, Wallace Fard Muhammad, is believed by followers to be an incarnation of God, also considered to be the Messiah of Christianity and Mahdi of Islam.
[edit]Judaism

Main article: God in Judaism
Main article: Chabad-Lubavitch related controversies
Mainstream Judaism totally rejects any doctrine of an incarnation of God and absolutely rejects any concept of an incarnation of God in any form.[8] Jews especially rejected vehemently – even under penalty of death or threats of torture – the Christian idea of Jesus as a divine incarnation of God, and neither see Jesus as a Prophet nor Messiah.
However, some Hasidim believe in a somewhat similar concept. Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, a prominent Hasidic leader, said that the Rebbe is God's essence itself put into a body of a Tzaddik. [9]. While many other Jews find this idea highly controversial, panentheism, i.e. considering everything and everyone as manifestations of God, is the accepted mainstream Hasidic and Kabbalistic doctrine.
The Kabbalah has an idea of gilgul (reincarnation) as part of the soul's journey to achieve perfection.
[edit]Rastafari

The Rastafari movement views Haile Selassie I as God incarnate, who has come the second time as a deliverer.

Pierre

[kerwin]

Irene,

We obviously understand two different things about who/what the Spirit of God is.

The Spirit of God is part of God but it also has an individual existence as a separate entity that has traits of a person but is not a person.  That is why Jesus in John 16:13 states “for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak” crediting the Spirit with independence as it with speaking only what it hears.   God would speak what he knows and not what he hears for he is the source of what is spoken, and that his The Word.   Other Scripture makes it clear that the Spirit is part of God.

Verse 1:14 does not state that the Word is the only begotten of God.  Read it carefully and you will find it instead makes the point that the glory of the Word incarnate is AS OF the only Begotten.  

Quote

John 1 King James Version (KJV) 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

If you read Ephesians 4:3-6 then you will easily see that the Spirit of God and God are listed as separate parts of the unity of the Spirit.  

Quote

Ephesians 4 King James Version (KJV) 3Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 25 2011,06:53)

Actually Ed, I am the one who is still on track.  It IS the Word who became flesh that had the glory of an only begotten from the Father, Ed.

Mike,

Quote

John 1 King James Version (KJV) 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Don't forget the “as of”.

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2011,15:20)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 25 2011,20:50) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2011,13:22) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 25 2011,20:01) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 25 2011,12:44) Yes Ed……………..”as of” the only begotten.  Go on………….. Hi Mike, Pretty simple really: The glory is God's, which is first seen in (“Jesus”=74) his “God Son”(74), then also seen in us. (See Romans 5:2, 8:18, 9:23-24) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj what is the glory of God ? Pierre Hi Pierre, dignity, glory, honor, praise, worship. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj NO to all , you have to think more Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Romans 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace
wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (Link)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 25 2011,23:00)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2011,15:20) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 25 2011,20:50) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2011,13:22) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 25 2011,20:01) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 25 2011,12:44) Yes Ed……………..”as of” the only begotten.  Go on………….. Hi Mike, Pretty simple really: The glory is God's, which is first seen in (“Jesus”=74) his “God Son”(74), then also seen in us. (See Romans 5:2, 8:18, 9:23-24) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj what is the glory of God ? Pierre Hi Pierre, dignity, glory, honor, praise, worship. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj NO to all , you have to think more Pierre Hi Pierre, Romans 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (Link) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

Ro 5:2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.

I cut out this ;And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God

Now can you read it ?

it does not say what THE GLORY is it says that we hope in it to come

SO MY QUESTION REMAINS ;what is God s glory ?

Pierre

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2011,16:45)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 25 2011,23:00) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2011,15:20) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 25 2011,20:50) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2011,13:22) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 25 2011,20:01) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 25 2011,12:44) Yes Ed……………..”as of” the only begotten.  Go on………….. Hi Mike, Pretty simple really: The glory is God's, which is first seen in (“Jesus”=74) his “God Son”(74), then also seen in us. (See Romans 5:2, 8:18, 9:23-24) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj what is the glory of God ? Pierre Hi Pierre, dignity, glory, honor, praise, worship. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj NO to all , you have to think more Pierre Hi Pierre, Romans 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (Link) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj Ro 5:2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. I cut out this ;And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God Now can you read it ? it does not say what THE GLORY is it says that we hope in it to come SO MY QUESTION REMAINS ;what is God s glory ? Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Just because you reject the answer, does not mean I didn't answer!
If you want to answer your own question, go ahead no-one is stopping you.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Author]

Posts