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Mike,
I strain at finding credibility in anything you say….but you slowly working in what you hear into what you believe…hmmm…maybe Stuart is right, but only that SOME humans evolve from the Apes…The Angels were not 'Angels' when they procreated. They are Spirits…they created human bodies, placed themselves, that is 'Spirit', so the bodies became 'living souls' and then procreated….
You still think so much in the flesh that you have blind eyes to reality.
So desperate are you to 'prove' what you want that you ignore all else.
The spirit cannot come out of the body unless the body dies…hence later, they were killed in the flood (Although a strange anomolie puts some of them in the land of Caanan even after the flood)
Also, 'Legion' begged Jesus to allow them to go into the pigs and then the pigs 'commit suicide themselves', hmmm an early form of Mad'pig' Desease…As for the Angels having sexual desires…Since Angels cannot procreate what purpose could there be for having 'sexual desires'. How are you feeling sexual desires if you don't have sexual organs?
No, it was seeing humans procreating, and knowing that they cannot procreate that led to the sin of jealousy in them. There was no such thing as a 'women' until eve had daughters, albeit that the traits of the women were taken out of Adam (Thank God!).
Procreation was previously unknown to the Angels (In heaven there is no giving nor taking in marraige…this means 'no procreation')The Angels 'desired' the women because it meant that they could procreate if they had the 'faculties' which meant creating human bodies…and they could be like God and 'create' their own offspring…have Sons like God (Did the Mangels procreate Daughters or just Sons?)
Mike, can you imagine what it's like if you had sexual desires and were unable to fulfil them for Eternity??? And watching others procreate…Mike, you would go mad…
And which would be preferable, to be in the everlasting Spirit realm (do you understand what that means?) or in the finite time limited flesh on earth subject to hunger, pain, thirst, heat, cold, sleep, tiredness, rain, desert, toilet stuff, 'a wife!!!', Mike, Which? Just for a few minutes of carnal activity?Quote (seekingtruth @ Nov. 21 2010,05:29) I appreciate your posting the scriptures with chapter and verse for me, this is how it should work;
Hi Wm,I almost always do it this way. In fact, I usually post the whole scripture and which translation it was from in the color blue.
I will take to heart your words about leaving out “liar” and “deciever” and “heretic”, as I have been regularly called all of the above here.
peace and love,
mikeJA:
Quote The Angels were not 'Angels' when they procreated. They are Spirits…they created human bodies, placed themselves, that is 'Spirit', so the bodies became 'living souls' and then procreated….
What scripture taught you this JA? Anyway, no matter how you slice it, it still ends up with “spirit sperm” impregnating a human egg. And the act of “procreation” begins (not ends as many people think) at that point. The Nephilim were the offspring of a spirit and a human procreating. If the angels just “made themselves humans” then the sperm they delivered would have also been human sperm, so the Nephilim wouldn't have been different than any other human.I all comes down to the sperm JA, no matter how many of your unscriptural opinions you jam down our throats. If it was “spirit sperm”, then spirits procreated. And if it wasn't, then the Nephilim were only human like the rest of us. I don't remember Moses putting any stipulations on it. He just said that angels took human women, and the Nephilim were the result of angel/human procreation.
JA:
Quote As for the Angels having sexual desires…Since Angels cannot procreate what purpose could there be for having 'sexual desires'. How are you feeling sexual desires if you don't have sexual organs?
And that's exactly the point I made. Why would the angels have even considered the human woman sexually good looking if they weren't created with both the ability and the desire to enjoy sex?JA, the following are the things you've claimed as fact when there is no scriptural backing that I know about.
1. The spirit cannot come out of the body unless the body dies…
2. Also, 'Legion' begged Jesus to allow them to go into the pigs and then the pigs 'commit suicide themselves', hmmm an early form of Mad'pig' Desease…
(First, this one proves your #1 false, for the man the spirits came out of did not die. Secondly, we have no idea whether these spirits died at all.)
3. No, it was seeing humans procreating, and knowing that they cannot procreate that led to the sin of jealousy in them.
4. Procreation was previously unknown to the Angels (In heaven there is no giving nor taking in marraige…this means 'no procreation')
5. The Angels 'desired' the women because it meant that they could procreate if they had the 'faculties' which meant creating human bodies…
6. …and they could be like God and 'create' their own offspring…have Sons like God (Did the Mangels procreate Daughters or just Sons?)
7. As for the Angels having sexual desires…Since Angels cannot procreate what purpose could there be for having 'sexual desires'. How are you feeling sexual desires if you don't have sexual organs?
8. Mike, can you imagine what it's like if you had sexual desires and were unable to fulfil them for Eternity???
(This one contradicts your #7)
I sorry JA, but I will choose scripture over your opinion/facts every time. Unless maybe you could show me scriptures that support any of these 8 claims you made?
I thank you for reminding me that the Nephilim were in Canaan after the flood. Shimmer was right that angels might actually still be procreating with humans to this very day. I thought God had put an end to it after the flood, but I was apparently mistaken. Thank you for that pointer.
peace and love,
mikeMike
this is new to me were is this written??i think this comes from JA?
I thank you for reminding me that the Nephilim were in Canaan after the flood. Shimmer was right that angels might actually still be procreating with humans to this very day. I thought God had put an end to it after the flood, but I was apparently mistaken. Thank you for that pointer.peace and love,
mikePierre
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 21 2010,11:34) Mike this is new to me were is this written??i think this comes from JA?
I thank you for reminding me that the Nephilim were in Canaan after the flood. Shimmer was right that angels might actually still be procreating with humans to this very day. I thought God had put an end to it after the flood, but I was apparently mistaken. Thank you for that pointer.peace and love,
mikePierre
Hi Pierre,Thank JA for this one, for he is right.
Genesis 6:4 NIV
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.Numbers 13:33 NIV
We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.”mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 21 2010,18:44) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 21 2010,11:34) Mike this is new to me were is this written??i think this comes from JA?
I thank you for reminding me that the Nephilim were in Canaan after the flood. Shimmer was right that angels might actually still be procreating with humans to this very day. I thought God had put an end to it after the flood, but I was apparently mistaken. Thank you for that pointer.peace and love,
mikePierre
Hi Pierre,Thank JA for this one, for he is right.
Genesis 6:4 NIV
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.Numbers 13:33 NIV
We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.”mike
Mikeyeah ok now it comes back,good refreshing,
thanks
Pierre
Hi Mike.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 21 2010,03:49) 1. Angels are ministering SPIRITS, according to scripture.
2. Angels PROCREATED with humans to produce Nephilim, according to scripture.
3. If God didn't create angels with both the ABILITY and DESIRE to procreate in the first place, then they wouldn't have ever thought human women were sexually “good looking” in the first place. And then we wouldn't have this very clear scriptural account of SPIRITS PROCREATING.
Hebrews 1:14
Angels…”Aren't they all serving spirits, sent out to do service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?Luke 24:37
Jesus said “a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have”
So….Angels are all spirits, spirits dont have flesh and bones.I will be looking into it more though tommorow.
Quote Hey All, do any of you think JA is going over the line with his insults and ridicules and belittlement? I for one think these angry and hurtful posts are anything but Christian behavior. Won't you help me in correcting and rebuking him about this behavior when you see it? Maybe just a kindly spoken reminder that we are all Christians here or something. Thanks.
Yeah, JA – I have told you about this, we are all christian here so please, behaveShimmer,
Thank you…you make me smile.
Mike appears to be sensitive, like a woman. Perhaps he should be treated like one.
He belives in 'Alien Sex'…invisible Angels 'laying down' with women…
Hey, i got a great joke about that…
Do you wanna hear it? And it does involve 'Super Men'…Mike,
Angel sperm…!!
Funny how the Nephilim looked liked humans but more powerful and big, giant…the poor women, did they survive the birth, or did the Nephilim 'burst out of the womb', 'Alien, …the movie…, style'
In Korea, many women are 'tiny'. When the Americans went over, they litterally killed many women in childbirth because thier union with the korean women resulted in babies too big to come out naturally.I think your analysis on the procreation act is based on your carnal fleshly thinking…you think of Spirits in the ssme way you think of flesh and blood. To you, there is no distinction, hence your belief that Angels have bodies…else how are they contained in heaven…ha ha…how weird…even that God is in a container body…elses how is He in some things and not in others….what separates us from God if God doesn't have boundaries….
Mike, Mike Mike…'stay Off the Mike!'
Yes, God has 'boundaries'….but not like you seem to believe….the Boundaries are mindful, of Truth, of Righteousness, of Love, of Sonship, of Grace, of Faith…nothing to do with physical.
Likewise, Angels, are Spirit, their boundaries are of power, authority, abilities…their 'limits' are only those God puts 'around them'…what they can do with the amount of power they have, where they can be in the 'seven heavens' and on Earth.
At first, the Angels were not limited to come to earth. Indeed, they had to come to earth to do the work set to them. But, when they saw that if they had human bodies they could procreate with human women and have Sons like God has Sons, it was too much of a temptation andsome did that.
Now, God banned them from coming to earth and entering human bodies…Yes, you are right that the men who were 'exorcised' did not die…bad example, ok, but see, the men had human spirits in the all the same …as well as the bad Angel Spirit, demon spirit, so when the Demons were removed there was still a spirit in the body. But the Nephilim…when their human bodies died, the whole body died…(And who would have eaten pig meat that had had a demon spirit in it so suicide was the right way to destroy them?)
Mike, please try to learn what 'Spirit' is.
If you keep thinking Spirit is like 'superflesh' you will keep getting things wrong.
And Mike,
I think you are struggling to understand even basic language…stands to reason then that you get so much wrong.
I was saying that, as a Spirit, 'if you sexual desires', you would go mad because you would not be able to procreate EVER, for ETERNITY…what point is there having feelings (…where would you have those feelings??…) if there is absolutely no way of fulfilling those feelings?
Mike, which Angels procreated amongs themselves..in Heaven, in any of the heavens?
I think you are struggling against a pointless questions.
No, Angels do not Procreate.
The father of the Nephilim were 'Humans with Angel Spirit'. The Nephilim were humans, albeit giants with super strength…also sounds like they weren't very intelligent, a bit like yourself, really, eh?
Perhaps Terra is right, they are still breeding today…and you would know…
Pierre,
You wrote:
Quote kerwin
you are placing ,men tradition above Gods word,
you will in this way never come to the full understanding of Gods word.and never understand Christ spirit.
Jesus told us about the yeast of those men and there traditions
This is a groundless accusation and does not continue the conversation. What are you afraid of?
Mike Boll,
I understand that you believe Paul was speaking figuratively in Athens but I disagree as their is other scripture that demonstrates he is all present. It is true that his presence seems to be centered on the highest of heavens which is called his throne.
I plan on addressing this in more detail later.
Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 21 2010,21:23) Hi Mike. Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 21 2010,03:49) 1. Angels are ministering SPIRITS, according to scripture.
2. Angels PROCREATED with humans to produce Nephilim, according to scripture.
3. If God didn't create angels with both the ABILITY and DESIRE to procreate in the first place, then they wouldn't have ever thought human women were sexually “good looking” in the first place. And then we wouldn't have this very clear scriptural account of SPIRITS PROCREATING.
Hebrews 1:14
Angels…”Aren't they all serving spirits, sent out to do service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?Luke 24:37
Jesus said “a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have”
So….Angels are all spirits, spirits dont have flesh and bones.I will be looking into it more though tommorow.
Quote Hey All, do any of you think JA is going over the line with his insults and ridicules and belittlement? I for one think these angry and hurtful posts are anything but Christian behavior. Won't you help me in correcting and rebuking him about this behavior when you see it? Maybe just a kindly spoken reminder that we are all Christians here or something. Thanks.
Yeah, JA – I have told you about this, we are all christian here so please, behave
Hi Shimmer,What about point #3? You didn't respond to that one.
And no one, not me and not Moses, is claiming that these angels that procreated with human woman had either flesh or bones.
This is the bottom line of it all. What made the Nephilim different from the rest of the human beings? Instead of being the offspring of a human/human procreation, they were the offspring of a human/angel procreation.
That's really all there is to it. Angels procreated. The result was the Nephilim. Angels are spirit beings. So therefore spirits procreated.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (JustAskin @ Nov. 21 2010,23:18) I think you are struggling against a pointless questions.
Correction, I “struggle” against the pointless opinions that you claim as fact. As if somehow your opinions carry more weight than the scriptures themselves.
I'm waiting for you to scripturally defend even ONE of the 8 unscriptural claims you made. Can't you even defend ONE of them JA?
And this is the second time in two days that you have made a derogatory sexist comment degrading women. Do it again and I will block you.
mike
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 22 2010,01:31) Mike Boll, I understand that you believe Paul was speaking figuratively in Athens but I disagree as their is other scripture that demonstrates he is all present. It is true that his presence seems to be centered on the highest of heavens which is called his throne.
I plan on addressing this in more detail later.
Hi Kerwin,Maybe you could start a “Where is God?” thread. It will be good to get all the scriptural info in one place.
I agree, there are scriptures that imply God is “everywhere all the time”, and many more that imply he resides in heaven. We could get them all together and see whether us living “IN” God is metaphorical or physical.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (JustAskin @ Nov. 21 2010,23:02) Mike, Mike Mike…'stay Off the Mike!'
Hi JA,I remember reading “Stay ON the Mike” about 50 times here. What happened? Have you learned your lesson?
JA, I have read you unscriptural “world according to JA” posts for months here. In the past, I have always just rolled my eyes, ignored them, and hoped that no one else was taking your false claims seriously. But more recently, I took up the task of requiring you to put your money where your mouth is……..and what happened?
You can't refute Col 1:16 in any sane manner – so one theory shot down.
You can't refute that if the Nephilim are the offspring of angels and humans, then angels procreated.
You can't show any scriptural support to the 8 unscriptural things you claimed a coulple of posts ago.
But the most important thing we've all learned is that you would rather run away from the discussion spouting insults and derogatory comments than actually defend your unfounded claims to the end.
Why don't you try addressing some points once in a while instead of posting insults and ridicules? Watch the others on this site and learn how it is done JA. Everyone attempts to answer to the other's points and scriptures. Not you. You post a 400 word post which might contain one indirect reference to something I said. When you are ready to DIRECTLY address the points I make that solidly refute your OPINIONS, then I will again discourse with you. Until that time I will ignore you as a waste of my time.
peace and love,
mikeMikeboll,
Which woman claims sexist derogatory against me. A crime is only a crime when the 'Injured Party' makes an allegation.Which female made this 'allegation', you?
And you seem to be in love with posing questions to which you have no intention of accepting as a response unless it says what you want it to say.
Tell me, Mike, have you ever tried having a debate with yourself?
When did you start? just the year will do!
Mike,
You say you will ignore my posts…nothing new there, is there.
Seeing that you disregard what i say, there really isn't any dfference.
You just concentrate on what you regards as 'derogatory'…what are you afraid of in the rest of the post such that you choose to ignore it, fear? I think so…
JA………….Mike does not want a truthfull dialog with anyone that disagrees with him as Martian has said, He is only interested in his own dogmas and does not even address you or my posts but simply dismisse them and gos on with his own destorted view of what scripture says . He has yet to produce (ONE SCRIPTURE) Where Jessu or any apostle said (SPECIFICALLY) that Jesus Preexisted as a living being before his exisence on earth, He relies on scriptures that can be forced to say that but do not (SPICIFFICALLY SAY IT).
Such is all the dogmas and teachings of PREEXISTENCES, They believe a SPIRIT is a Being , not understanding Spirit is What is (IN) a Being and and is the force that workes giving (Intellect) THAT ANIMATES THE BODY IT IS IN. There exist no such thing as a Spirit having a Body , not GOD or any Spirit is a Body of any kind, Angels have Bodies that have Spirit (IN) them these Spirit are made by GOD and installed in Angelic Bodies.
We also shall be as the Angels in the resurection , that is to ay we will have the same BODIES that will not die, bit not the less we will have bodies just as GOd see fit to give us each a body of our own. The only one who can live inside or outside of a body is GOD who is spirit IT or Him Self.
The very best that Trinitarians and Preexistences can do is force there own meanings on the text they quote , but never give a (SPECIFIC TEXT) to back up their claims only texts that can be taken all kind of way and even word like (through) wich is translated 50 different way in scriptures , they do not consider that it was the Trinitarian Translators the translated these scriptures and they simply slanted them to give meaning to their false teaching of the Preexistence Trinity Doctrines they imposed on all Christerdom. This LIE is the same thing that is being done here, there is not truly Honest Dialog being done here by them and there never will be either. IMO
peace and love……………………………gene
I have come to believe the unless GOD opens the eye of the mind to see the truth no one can see it. This site has proven that over and over again and again, There is no truthfull and Honest dialogy being accomplished here, no ture gains is ever made no matter how many scripture you post. Honest and sincerer people like Adam, Martian, Jodi, Chosenone, Marty, not3in1, Kerwin, Kejion, DJ, Georg, Shimmer, Kenrich, Nick, David,< Sure some had differences in what they said but they all brought to the table truthful dialog they believed in and presented them. But they all seem to sonner of later grow weary and fustrated by the Attacks on their Person caused mostely always by those who believe in the Gnostic's and Trinitarian teachings of the Preexistence of Jesus.
peace and love…………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 22 2010,03:27) JA………….Mike does not want a truthfull dialog with anyone that disagrees with him as Martian has said,
Ha! Yes Gene, you and Martian are also included in the group that is afraid to answer direct questions directly. Hey Gene, I have been asking and asking this question to JA:
Now, here is the very simple question JA. Col 1:16 says all invisible rulers in heaven were created through Jesus. Now aside from God Himself who isn't a “creation” and Jesus, who could not logically be said to be created through himself, is there any logical SCRIPTURAL reason for you to insist this doesn't include the angels?
If not “angels”, then who are these invisible powers, rulers and authorities in heaven who were created through Jesus?
You see, I thought if I made it purple, then maybe it would stand out and he would see the question. And surely if he saw it he would answer it, right?
Gene, I apparently missed the post where he directly answered my direct question. Could you tell me what his answer was? If you don't mind, please tell me his answer and post the link where I can find his answer that I overlooked.
Do you see what's happening here Gene? I have a group of “non-answerers” all trying to kick someone at the same time. It's funny that I don't hear these complaints from Shimmer, Kathi, Pierre, Irene, Kerwin or t8. Only from the people who are both claiming unscriptural things AND are afraid to confront the scriptures that refute the unscriptural things they are saying. I've heard it from WJ and KJ first – because they didn't want to answer a direct question about Eusebius. Then SF jumped on board, because like WJ and KJ, he would rather give a diversion instead of an actual answer – so I kept asking in the hope he would actually answer it. Now I got Ed saying it – and he even posted proof of me asking the same question 8 times! But he won't bother posting his supposed “answer” to that question that I “ignored” – because if he had actually answered the question, I would have moved on to my follow up question.
Did you notice my “follow up question” to JA today in the “superior” thread? Yeah, he wouldn't actually answer the purple one, so I moved on to the first of many follow up questions that I've had waiting.
Gene, what are you guys so afraid of? What if I did re-ask a question you already answered? You spend hours each week posting the same tired diatribes about pre-existers being trinitaians, antichrists and Gnostics. Would it kill you to just take 2 minutes and answer it again? I would think that if you are so sure of your claim that you would jump at the chance to reenforce it by getting the opportunity to re-answer my question……………….unless maybe you're not so proud of your answer in the first place.
Could that be it Gene? Anyway, I'll await your link to where JA answered the purple question I've been asking for weeks now.
peace and love,
mike
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