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Mike.
Good point on the wounds, I agree. Did you check out Zechariah 13:6 from my post above?My opinion – Wm
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2011,06:32) Quote (Baker @ Jan. 01 2011,05:18) Be sure to pay close attention to verse 19.
For a “spirit” to be seen by a human, he has to take on a human body. Notice, after he showed them his hands and side did they know it was the Lord.
Hi Georg,And YOU be sure to pay close attention to verse 20.
Jesus showed them his hands and side to prove what? Most likely that he was the risen Lord. What you suggest is that the SPIRIT Jesus “manifested” a body, complete with holes in the hands and the side for proof. What you suggest means that Jesus LIED to his disciples by telling them he was NOT a spirit. If Jesus showed them his scars as proof it was really him who was raised, but he was really a spirit at the time who just “manifested” a fake body to mislead them, I think that would have been deceitful. And I don't think Jesus would be deceitful, do you?What I suggest is that Jesus was raised BACK TO EARTH with his same body, which could just as easily been “collected” by God as a ransom 40 days later when Jesus ascended to heaven in his new, transformed, spiritual body.
I don't know who's right about this, but my suggestion eliminates the possibility of Jesus LYING, while yours makes Jesus out to be a liar and deceiver – things Jesus said Satan was.
peace and love,
mike
Mike! You don't believe that Jesus can't magnify into His former body in order to show them that it is Jesus. and that HE WAS RISEN FROM THE DEATH?
? Angels can and Jesus cannot?…..IN Mark it shows us that they were frightened and thought they had seen a ghost. Can you go through closed doors? I don't thjnk that Jesus was lying. but I believe it is an error either in John here or Mark there. Something is not right. And since Jesus body is the ransom, I go with John. We can't have it both. If Jesus was in His fleshly body then the ransom can't take effect…. Peace IreneQuote (Baker @ Jan. 01 2011,03:30) Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2011,06:20) Don't you think I've read that, how do you know what we can or cannot do in our glorified bodies. Wm
Wm! what are you talking about 'WE' it is Jesus that apopeared through closed doors….Peace Irene
Well from my point of view we will have bodies like Jesus… so, we.My opinion – Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2011,05:52)
Someone asked me once why Jesus said flesh and bone instead of flesh and blood, you'll note that the above verse does not say flesh or blood, but flesh and blood. Perhaps there is no blood in a resurrected body and that is what makes it imperishable.
I've brought that point up here recently also. The term “flesh and blood” is used many times in the scriptures. But only one time is “flesh and BONE” used. Consider this scripture, Wm:Leviticus 17:11 NIV
For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.Jesus died to make atonement, not for his own life, but for all of ours. But the same principle should apply. It is the BLOOD that makes atonement, not the body.
And Paul said that FLESH could not inherit God's Kingdom, where Jesus is now. Forget the “blood” versus “bone” thing, because FLESH cannot enter. So Jesus does NOT have FLESH anymore. Nor would there be any reason for him to have it. Jesus is now a spirit, as 1 Cor 15:45 and 2 Cor 3:17-18 clearly teach us.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2011,05:52)
As to Jesus was “raised” twice, “He ascended on high” is different from resurrection.
Being resurrected and ascending to heaven are both “being raised”. Wm, do you deny that we can “RAISE” our voices to heaven? Jesus was both RAISED from the dead and RAISED to heaven.peace and love,
mikeQuote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2011,06:49) Quote (Baker @ Jan. 01 2011,03:30) Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2011,06:20) Don't you think I've read that, how do you know what we can or cannot do in our glorified bodies. Wm
Wm! what are you talking about 'WE' it is Jesus that apopeared through closed doors….Peace Irene
Well from my point of view we will have bodies like Jesus… so, we.My opinion – Wm
Wm! Some will be Spirit Beings, but that is another subject. The elect will reign with Christ, Rev.7 and those multitude that stand in front of the Throne of God, All the meek will inherit the earth and will be flesh…..Peace IreneI used to just back out of discussions once all points are made/understood/rejected to avoid “quarreling about words” but it was pointed out that I was leaving people hanging. So at this point I announce that I am backing out of this discussion, I've made my points, you have made yours, at least for my part I will have to agree to disagree, less a continued argument should “ruin those who listen”. Now at the same time, if something I presented is unclear I will happily try to explain it to the best of my abilities.
My position – Wm
Quote (Baker @ Jan. 01 2011,08:06) Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 31 2010,20:46) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 31 2010,17:21) Gene we know your opinion stand for nothing but wind,and most of the time with dust.
you have eyes and you can read better than I,this I know and can see,but so also could the pharisees.Pierre
Gene and all, In the past I would never report a post. I have had things said to me, and I have kept quiet. I have seen all kinds of things said to others and I have kept quiet. Lately I have no doubt myself said thing's to people. I have decided though that from now on I will report whatever I see if it is harmfull to a persons spiritual wellbeing. We shouldnt tolerate it. See how easily others got tiled and banned. Then other's still get away with it. We dont need to tolerate it.If I have said anything here to upset anyone, then I apologise. Jay was only speaking truth and He got frustrated because no-one listened, and everyone got frustrated in the end. SeekingTruths signature verse say's it all. And we should all be seeking truth and not causing wars or divisions.
Everyone should have a right here to have a say. We are all at different levels of understanding. The weak should be cared for, the less knowledgable taught…truthfully. No-one should be scared to ask a question and no-one should be scared of people understanding something wrong. We are all different and we should all be treated as such, but we should all also be treated equal with no favourite treatment of individuals.
None of this is Christian like. And it should stop.
Shimmer, I agree with you that nobody should put another down like Gene, and even Pierre has done. I have been wrongly accused of being the one that took JA of this Forum, and that I have the Spirit of Anti-Christ because I believe that Jesus preexisted, more then once has he done so. That should never be aloud. Also flooding a tread with accusation over and over again, should not be aloud. It simple is not like a Christian….Peace Irene
PS look at Georg's post to Mike, there is the scripture where Jesus appeared through closed Doors….No flesh and Blood can do so….
Hi Irene I agree. We should not have to put up with some thing's. Report posts because then the person/people will learn hopefully not to do it again.And Mike, Ok thanks.
Irene/Georg… Jesus appearing through closed door's, first question is… where does it say He walked through closed door's ? It doesn't actually say those word's. Doesn't it say they were gathered behind closed door's ? I don't have time to read. It's school holiday's and my son keep's talking to me, which is why I can't concentrate very well lately.
But as Mike I think said, Jesus did many thing's, also, before he died. Example walking on water.
The way I see it, in nature, God gives us examples. I have always thought of a Butterfly. How it goes in the cocoon and after a while come's out a butterfly. It can fly. It couldn't before. So though it's the same it's different.
I can't say much more though for a while, I need to take a break and spend some time doing other thing's.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 15 2010,05:19) Now………about God. Can anyone tell me what separates what IS God from what IS NOT God?
peace and love,
mike
Hi MIke,Just like everything on the television reflects mankind,
everything in our universe is a reflection of our God.
And everything that is in our universe is Not God.
I could pick something up and ask: is this God?
I could bring any person over: are they God?
And in each and “EVERY CASE” you would
have to say, no they/it are “Not God”!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Baker @ Jan. 01 2011,06:48)
Mike! You don't believe that Jesus can't magnify into His former body in order to show them that it is Jesus. and that HE WAS RISEN FROM THE DEATH?? Angels can and Jesus cannot?…..
Jesus, the angels, and even men can do whatever our God gives us the power and ability to do, Irene. I haven't read anywhere where angels “manifested” or “created” bodies in scripture though, so I don't know what your last part refers to.Quote (Baker @ Jan. 01 2011,06:48)
IN Mark it shows us that they were frightened and thought they had seen a ghost.
Yes, it says that also in Luke. But Jesus assured them that he was NOT a spirit by pointing them to his flesh and bone, which spirits do NOT have and he did.Quote (Baker @ Jan. 01 2011,06:48)
Can you go through closed doors?
I HAVEN'T gone through any closed doors that I remember.
But I also haven't walked on water in my flesh body……..have you? Jesus did, though. Like I said, anyone can do anything God gives him the power and ability to do.Quote (Baker @ Jan. 01 2011,06:48)
I don't thjnk that Jesus was lying. but I believe it is an error either in John here or Mark there. Something is not right. And since Jesus body is the ransom, I go with John. We can't have it both.
I'm not sure what you're saying here.Quote (Baker @ Jan. 01 2011,06:48)
If Jesus was in His fleshly body then the ransom can't take effect….
Let me ask you this, Irene. Is there a time limit to when God had to “claim” Jesus' body as the sacrifice? Could God not have claimed his flesh body when he was raised to heaven?peace and love,
mikeQuote (Ed J @ Jan. 01 2011,07:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 15 2010,05:19) Now………about God. Can anyone tell me what separates what IS God from what IS NOT God?
peace and love,
mike
Hi MIke,Just like everything on the television reflects mankind,
everything in our universe is a reflection of our God.
And everything that is in our universe is Not God.
I could pick something up and ask: is this God?
I could bring any person over: are they God?
And in each and “EVERY CASE” you would
have to say, no they/it are “Not God”!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed,I agree with all you wrote, but you didn't answer the question. What is it that separates what IS God from what is NOT God? Whatever it is, I would call it a “body”. Bodies are what separated all individual things from everything else, right?
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2011,08:40) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 01 2011,07:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 15 2010,05:19) Now………about God. Can anyone tell me what separates what IS God from what IS NOT God?
peace and love,
mike
Hi MIke,Just like everything on the television reflects mankind,
everything in our universe is a reflection of our God.
And everything that is in our universe is Not God.
I could pick something up and ask: is this God?
I could bring any person over: are they God?
And in each and “EVERY CASE” you would
have to say, no they/it are “Not God”!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed,I agree with all you wrote, but you didn't answer the question. What is it that separates what IS God from what is NOT God? Whatever it is, I would call it a “body”. Bodies are what separated all individual things from everything else, right?
mike
Hi Mike,I don't really get what you are driving at there?
Your question (as worded) cannot be answered correctly.
The word 'separates' throws a monkey wrench into your question?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2011,06:32) Quote (Baker @ Jan. 01 2011,05:18) Be sure to pay close attention to verse 19.
For a “spirit” to be seen by a human, he has to take on a human body. Notice, after he showed them his hands and side did they know it was the Lord.
Hi Georg,And YOU be sure to pay close attention to verse 20.
Jesus showed them his hands and side to prove what? Most likely that he was the risen Lord. What you suggest is that the SPIRIT Jesus “manifested” a body, complete with holes in the hands and the side for proof. What you suggest means that Jesus LIED to his disciples by telling them he was NOT a spirit. If Jesus showed them his scars as proof it was really him who was raised, but he was really a spirit at the time who just “manifested” a fake body to mislead them, I think that would have been deceitful. And I don't think Jesus would be deceitful, do you?What I suggest is that Jesus was raised BACK TO EARTH with his same body, which could just as easily been “collected” by God as a ransom 40 days later when Jesus ascended to heaven in his new, transformed, spiritual body.
I don't know who's right about this, but my suggestion eliminates the possibility of Jesus LYING, while yours makes Jesus out to be a liar and deceiver – things Jesus said Satan was.
peace and love,
mike
MikeIt is obvious you don't understand the “ransom”.
Sorry, I just feel it is pointless at this time to continue, you will believe what you want anyway.Georg
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2011,06:51) Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2011,05:52)
Someone asked me once why Jesus said flesh and bone instead of flesh and blood, you'll note that the above verse does not say flesh or blood, but flesh and blood. Perhaps there is no blood in a resurrected body and that is what makes it imperishable.
I've brought that point up here recently also. The term “flesh and blood” is used many times in the scriptures. But only one time is “flesh and BONE” used. Consider this scripture, Wm:Leviticus 17:11 NIV
For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.Jesus died to make atonement, not for his own life, but for all of ours. But the same principle should apply. It is the BLOOD that makes atonement, not the body.
And Paul said that FLESH could not inherit God's Kingdom, where Jesus is now. Forget the “blood” versus “bone” thing, because FLESH cannot enter. So Jesus does NOT have FLESH anymore. Nor would there be any reason for him to have it. Jesus is now a spirit, as 1 Cor 15:45 and 2 Cor 3:17-18 clearly teach us.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2011,05:52)
As to Jesus was “raised” twice, “He ascended on high” is different from resurrection.
Being resurrected and ascending to heaven are both “being raised”. Wm, do you deny that we can “RAISE” our voices to heaven? Jesus was both RAISED from the dead and RAISED to heaven.peace and love,
mike
Mike………Wrong again , “This is Flesh of my Flesh and Bone of My bone”, and there are other places that say that also. IMO And live of the creation is indeed in the Blood because the cells repair and sustain the life of the body, until we die. The Spirit (intellect) (IN) the cells operate to maintain Life in us, and when they quite we die> IMOpeace and love………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 01 2011,09:45) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2011,06:51) Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2011,05:52)
Someone asked me once why Jesus said flesh and bone instead of flesh and blood, you'll note that the above verse does not say flesh or blood, but flesh and blood. Perhaps there is no blood in a resurrected body and that is what makes it imperishable.
I've brought that point up here recently also. The term “flesh and blood” is used many times in the scriptures. But only one time is “flesh and BONE” used. Consider this scripture, Wm:Leviticus 17:11 NIV
For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.Jesus died to make atonement, not for his own life, but for all of ours. But the same principle should apply. It is the BLOOD that makes atonement, not the body.
And Paul said that FLESH could not inherit God's Kingdom, where Jesus is now. Forget the “blood” versus “bone” thing, because FLESH cannot enter. So Jesus does NOT have FLESH anymore. Nor would there be any reason for him to have it. Jesus is now a spirit, as 1 Cor 15:45 and 2 Cor 3:17-18 clearly teach us.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2011,05:52)
As to Jesus was “raised” twice, “He ascended on high” is different from resurrection.
Being resurrected and ascending to heaven are both “being raised”. Wm, do you deny that we can “RAISE” our voices to heaven? Jesus was both RAISED from the dead and RAISED to heaven.peace and love,
mike
Mike………Wrong again , “This is Flesh of my Flesh and Bone of My bone”, and there are other places that say that also. IMO And live of the creation is indeed in the Blood because the cells repair and sustain the life of the body, until we die. The Spirit (intellect) (IN) the cells operate to maintain Life in us, and when they quite we die> IMOpeace and love………………………….gene
Hi Gene,Do you believe our spirit resides in our blood?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEDJ………Yes i believe SPIRIT (intellect) does reside (IN) the Blood in the Cells or they would not know what to DO in their individual Job maintaining out Bodies Life is ever where in us in our Minds in our bodies all working by SPIRIT (intellects) each caring out there individual functions to sustain us. When these Spirit of life leave us our bodies total decompose back to the earth from which they came, and the SPIRITS return back to GOD who gave them in the first place, we are gone for ever , ” when a man dies his thoughts parish, he is Gonzo for ever and will remain that way until GOD recreates a FLESH BODY again and adds Spirit Intellect) back into it. Like the body of dead bones in Ezekiel shows, IMO
peace and love………………………………………gene
Hi Gene,
I told Georg that our spirit resides in our blood, but
he believes differently. Glad to see we agree again!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgMike Boll,
Why do you say in your heart that all flesh is the same when God states all flesh is not the same? Is not it self evident that the natural flesh and blood of a maple tree is not the same as the natural flesh and blood of a human being?
Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2011,07:12) I used to just back out of discussions once all points are made/understood/rejected to avoid “quarreling about words” but it was pointed out that I was leaving people hanging. So at this point I announce that I am backing out of this discussion, I've made my points, you have made yours, at least for my part I will have to agree to disagree, less a continued argument should “ruin those who listen”. Now at the same time, if something I presented is unclear I will happily try to explain it to the best of my abilities. My position – Wm
Wm I appreciate that, some that don't agree will me start calling me names, you are a fine Christian and that I do appreciate…..Good luck to you and Happy New Year, Peace to you IreneQuote (Baker @ Jan. 01 2011,09:15) Mike It is obvious you don't understand the “ransom”.
Sorry, I just feel it is pointless at this time to continue, you will believe what you want anyway.Georg
How disappointing Georg.When did we ever discuss the “ransom”? Wasn't it me who came to Irene's “rescue” about Jesus being a “ransom sacrifice” the first time she brought it up here?
I have no problem that JESUS was ransomed for us – scripture says he was. And I don't even have a problem with his body along with his blood being that ransom. My mom has done what I asked you to do – she has showed me these scriptures:
Hebrews 10 NIV
10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body
Now that we know the body was sacrificed, we have to use discernment to understand what was meant by “his body will not see decay” and “spirits have not flesh and bone, as you see I have”.
I believe I have been shown the truth…..literally just right now. Will you bear with me a little while longer?
Georg, Irene and Pierre:
Did Jesus sacrifice his LIFE for us? YES or NO?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2011,12:01) Mike Boll, Why do you say in your heart that all flesh is the same when God states all flesh is not the same? Is not it self evident that the natural flesh and blood of a maple tree is not the same as the natural flesh and blood of a human being?
Kerwin,What are you on about? I've told you before that you should post the quote from the person you are addressing. It helps us all to know what is being discussed and claimed by both parties.
In which of my posts did I claim that “all flesh is the same”?
mike
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