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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 30 2010,10:47) 1. Of or relating to the sky or the heavens: Planets are celestial bodies. 2. (Astronomy) of or relating to the sky celestial bodies[/color]
–adjective. 1. pertaining to the sky or visible heaven. 2.
Mike……….Seeing Paul said CELESTIAL “BODIES” And the Word originated as CELESTIA a LATIN word for (SKY) or the Heavens It can only be Paul was talking about the Sun, Moon and Stars, as he went on to explain. That these Celestial “BODIES” and they differ in GLORY. Terrestrial or (earthly) bodies (Bodies that come from the earth) also differ in glory to, just as the Celestial bodies as the sun and moon and star do.Again Mike your inserting MYSTERY RELIGION into our plainly written scriptures again. IMO
peace and love…………………………………..gene
To All! I am trying to forget what happened here with JA It was so wrong, and I would really appreciate that we all forget about that. There is no reason to do this, except to bring further division between us. I know we don't all agree with our believes, and that is human nature. I like a good debate with Scriptures, but the personal attacks should never happen. Even now were JA is gone, He has found a way to attach us, and some of you bought right into it. Lets be the Christians we should be… NO PERSONAL ATTACKS. CAN YOU ALL AGREE ON THAT?
??? I hope so….
Peace IreneQuote (Baker @ Dec. 30 2010,13:23) Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 30 2010,10:37) Jay isn't here to defend Himself is he Irene ? So why bring thing's up when He can't ? Do you want me to find all of the posts where Mike was egging Him on to react like that ? Not only Mike but yourself too ? Calling Him a liar ? Why was this thread started in the first place ? And the other's ? It seems it was simply to challenge Jay on His beliefs. If it was supposed to be a debate then why was it put under 'truth or tradition?' why wasn't it put in debates ? There's a difference between a debate and a discussion you know.
Shimmer! He had Ed put a post up and to that I responded…..you can look all those post up yourself were he was so abusive to Mike, Pierre and me…….and that seems to be just fine with you, why….>? Irene
Irene, WHY can't they just get on ?I have an ex brother in law… He comes across as really well mannared and in control. However He aggravates people. He divided the whole family against each other. So I do have experience in this, and I do see that Jay was often egged on to react as He did. I do know Jay need's to control himself more. That I agree with. But you arent seeing BOTH sides of the story where I do.
With Kathi and Ed, they are both in the wrong sort of but it's Ed who is more so and it's Ed who has to apologise. Ed has made such a big thing out of nothing. And it's kathi I feel sorry for.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 30 2010,10:47) 1. Of or relating to the sky or the heavens: Planets are celestial bodies. 2. (Astronomy) of or relating to the sky celestial bodies[/color]
–adjective. 1. pertaining to the sky or visible heaven. 2.
Mike……….Seeing Paul said CELESTIAL “BODIES” And the Word originated as CELESTIA a LATIN word for (SKY) or the Heavens It can only be Paul was talking about the Sun, Moon and Stars, as he went on to explain. That these Celestial “BODIES” and they differ in GLORY. Terrestrial or (earthly) bodies (Bodies that come from the earth) also differ in glory to, just as the Celestial bodies as the sun and moon and star do.Again Mike your inserting MYSTERY RELIGION into our plainly written scriptures again. IMO
peace and love…………………………………..gene
Quote (Baker @ Dec. 30 2010,11:23) you can look all those post up yourself were he was so abusive to Mike, Pierre and me…….and that seems to be just fine with you, why….> ? Irene
Hi Irene,I've often wondered that same exact thing.
mike
From JustAskin…
mikeboll64, you are trying to prove that Celestial means what you WANT it to mean.
What does the first line in your dictionary say?
Does it not align with what Paul says:
“there are terrestrial bodies like Animals, fish, birds and Man.
And there are Celestial bodies like Sun, Moon and Stars”Mikeboll64, why did you look up the word 'Celestial' by itself, when the term in question is 'Celestial Body'?
Mikeboll64, please post a definition of 'Celestial Body' and not 'Celestial' by itself. Is it not deception to change the context like you just did, do you think?
Also, do you think that 'Spirit Body' (not mentioned any where by anyone at anytime except you) is the same as 'Spiritual Body'?
Mikeboll64, Jesus was buried in a Natural Body…and was raised in a Spiritual Body (not a Spirit Body like you said because there is no such thing as a Spirit Body…what is a 'spirit Body', Mike?).
Mikeboll64, was the Spiritual Body that Jesus was raised up in, Flesh and Bone, or, like you said 'Spirit'?I see though, that we are no longer discussing Spirit Body, nor Spiritual Body, for I see you are now saying that Jesus was raised into a Fleshly body, albeit, a glorified, pure, Sinless and incorruptible Fleshly body.
Strange, that after all this time, you are now agreeing with Paul:
'It is sown a corruptible body; it is raised an incorruptible SpiritUAL Body.
First the Natural Body, then the Spiritual Body.'Mike, was Jesus' Spiritual Body made of Flesh and Bone, or was it Spirit?”
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 30 2010,11:37) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 30 2010,13:23) Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 30 2010,10:37) Jay isn't here to defend Himself is he Irene ? So why bring thing's up when He can't ? Do you want me to find all of the posts where Mike was egging Him on to react like that ? Not only Mike but yourself too ? Calling Him a liar ? Why was this thread started in the first place ? And the other's ? It seems it was simply to challenge Jay on His beliefs. If it was supposed to be a debate then why was it put under 'truth or tradition?' why wasn't it put in debates ? There's a difference between a debate and a discussion you know.
Shimmer! He had Ed put a post up and to that I responded…..you can look all those post up yourself were he was so abusive to Mike, Pierre and me…….and that seems to be just fine with you, why….>? Irene
Irene, WHY can't they just get on ?I have an ex brother in law… He comes across as really well mannared and in control. However He aggravates people. He divided the whole family against each other. So I do have experience in this, and I do see that Jay was often egged on to react as He did. I do know Jay need's to control himself more. That I agree with. But you arent seeing BOTH sides of the story where I do.
With Kathi and Ed, they are both in the wrong sort of but it's Ed who is more so and it's Ed who has to apologise. Ed has made such a big thing out of nothing. And it's kathi I feel sorry for.
Shimmer! We just posted at the same time…..Yes, lets forget it…Peace Irene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 30 2010,11:38) Mike……….Seeing Paul said CELESTIAL “BODIES” And the Word originated as CELESTIA a LATIN word for (SKY) or the Heavens It can only be Paul was talking about the Sun, Moon and Stars, as he went on to explain.
So Gene,Was Paul explaning anything at all about the bodies PEOPLE will be resurrected with? Because I thought the question he was answering was:
35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”
And I also thought he was speaking of PEOPLE when he said:
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
Was I wrong? Was he talking about planets and stars?
mike
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 30 2010,11:42) From JustAskin… mikeboll64, you are trying to prove that Celestial means what you WANT it to mean.
What does the first line in your dictionary say?
Does it not align with what Paul says:
“there are terrestrial bodies like Animals, fish, birds and Man.
And there are Celestial bodies like Sun, Moon and Stars”Mikeboll64, why did you look up the word 'Celestial' by itself, when the term in question is 'Celestial Body'?
Mikeboll64, please post a definition of 'Celestial Body' and not 'Celestial' by itself. Is it not deception to change the context like you just did, do you think?
Also, do you think that 'Spirit Body' (not mentioned any where by anyone at anytime except you) is the same as 'Spiritual Body'?
Mikeboll64, Jesus was buried in a Natural Body…and was raised in a Spiritual Body (not a Spirit Body like you said because there is no such thing as a Spirit Body…what is a 'spirit Body', Mike?).
Mikeboll64, was the Spiritual Body that Jesus was raised up in, Flesh and Bone, or, like you said 'Spirit'?I see though, that we are no longer discussing Spirit Body, nor Spiritual Body, for I see you are now saying that Jesus was raised into a Fleshly body, albeit, a glorified, pure, Sinless and incorruptible Fleshly body.
Strange, that after all this time, you are now agreeing with Paul:
'It is sown a corruptible body; it is raised an incorruptible SpiritUAL Body.
First the Natural Body, then the Spiritual Body.'Mike, was Jesus' Spiritual Body made of Flesh and Bone, or was it Spirit?”
Shimmer??? I guess there will never be a unity here, if JA still comes in the middle…..IreneMike…………There is another Bible i have Just sent of For, it is a complete New Testament text written from Aramaic scriptures which predates the Greek versions the we now have , and reading the preview on it , it clarifies the many many errors of the Greek language translations that can take all kind of various meanings.The Greek language is one of the main reasons we have so many different denominations today.
Check This out :THE ARAMAIC ENGLISH NEW TESTAMENT:WRITTEN BY ROTH go the Amazon.com, and read the reviews on it .
peace and love……………………………………….gene
Irene, I was posting and I lost my connection, I was saying I agree that it should drop.
But Jay just wanted me to post that and I see nothing wrong with it, it's just His opinion on the subject.
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 30 2010,11:42) From JustAskin… mikeboll64, you are trying to prove that Celestial means what you WANT it to mean.
What does the first line in your dictionary say?
Does it not align with what Paul says:
“there are terrestrial bodies like Animals, fish, birds and Man.
And there are Celestial bodies like Sun, Moon and Stars”Mikeboll64, why did you look up the word 'Celestial' by itself, when the term in question is 'Celestial Body'?
Mikeboll64, please post a definition of 'Celestial Body' and not 'Celestial' by itself. Is it not deception to change the context like you just did, do you think?
Also, do you think that 'Spirit Body' (not mentioned any where by anyone at anytime except you) is the same as 'Spiritual Body'?
Mikeboll64, Jesus was buried in a Natural Body…and was raised in a Spiritual Body (not a Spirit Body like you said because there is no such thing as a Spirit Body…what is a 'spirit Body', Mike?).
Mikeboll64, was the Spiritual Body that Jesus was raised up in, Flesh and Bone, or, like you said 'Spirit'?I see though, that we are no longer discussing Spirit Body, nor Spiritual Body, for I see you are now saying that Jesus was raised into a Fleshly body, albeit, a glorified, pure, Sinless and incorruptible Fleshly body.
Strange, that after all this time, you are now agreeing with Paul:
'It is sown a corruptible body; it is raised an incorruptible SpiritUAL Body.
First the Natural Body, then the Spiritual Body.'Mike, was Jesus' Spiritual Body made of Flesh and Bone, or was it Spirit?”
Shimmer ………..Right on , this was JA point he was trying to make and i totally agree with it, as you do to. I think EDJ does to.Shimmer go to Amazon.com and read the review on the Aramaic new testament written by Gabriel Roth. It is supposed to clarify a lot of scriptures that have caused so many devisions in Greek-Roman- Catholic-Protestant Christianity. Check it out and see what you think.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 30 2010,12:02) Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 30 2010,11:42) From JustAskin… mikeboll64, you are trying to prove that Celestial means what you WANT it to mean.
What does the first line in your dictionary say?
Does it not align with what Paul says:
“there are terrestrial bodies like Animals, fish, birds and Man.
And there are Celestial bodies like Sun, Moon and Stars”Mikeboll64, why did you look up the word 'Celestial' by itself, when the term in question is 'Celestial Body'?
Mikeboll64, please post a definition of 'Celestial Body' and not 'Celestial' by itself. Is it not deception to change the context like you just did, do you think?
Also, do you think that 'Spirit Body' (not mentioned any where by anyone at anytime except you) is the same as 'Spiritual Body'?
Mikeboll64, Jesus was buried in a Natural Body…and was raised in a Spiritual Body (not a Spirit Body like you said because there is no such thing as a Spirit Body…what is a 'spirit Body', Mike?).
Mikeboll64, was the Spiritual Body that Jesus was raised up in, Flesh and Bone, or, like you said 'Spirit'?I see though, that we are no longer discussing Spirit Body, nor Spiritual Body, for I see you are now saying that Jesus was raised into a Fleshly body, albeit, a glorified, pure, Sinless and incorruptible Fleshly body.
Strange, that after all this time, you are now agreeing with Paul:
'It is sown a corruptible body; it is raised an incorruptible SpiritUAL Body.
First the Natural Body, then the Spiritual Body.'Mike, was Jesus' Spiritual Body made of Flesh and Bone, or was it Spirit?”
Shimmer ………..Right on , this was JA point he was trying to make and i totally agree with it, as you do to. I think EDJ does to.Shimmer go to Amazon.com and read the review on the Aramaic new testament written by Gabriel Roth. It is supposed to clarify a lot of scriptures that have caused so many devisions in Greek-Roman- Catholic-Protestant Christianity. Check it out and see what you think.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Hi Gene,Does it have the original Matthew?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 30 2010,11:50) Mike…………There is another Bible i have Just sent of For, it is a complete New Testament text written from Aramaic scriptures which predates the Greek versions the we now have , and reading the preview on it , it clarifies the many many errors of the Greek language translations that can take all kind of various meanings.The Greek language is one of the main reasons we have so many different denominations today. Check This out :THE ARAMAIC ENGLISH NEW TESTAMENT:WRITTEN BY ROTH go the Amazon.com, and read the reviews on it .
peace and love……………………………………….gene
Hi Gene,I think it's GREAT that you are really delving into this. We all know the scriptures have been butchered by men with agendas throughout history.
I wonder though, how will you know this version of the Greek is the “correct” translation?
That's why I love NETBible, man. You can see the KJV, NKJV, NIV, NASB, and others side by side. But the best part is that you can view the actual Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, and even the LXX texts!
But I will be interested in seeing how these versions you've ordered compare to the versions we are used to. I trust that you will point out the major discrepancies as you find them and shed some light for all of us?
peace and love,
mikeMIke…………Your forgetting Paul said a (SPIRIT)(UAL) BODY. (IT) that body that was sown in corruption is raised in incorruption. (IT) Mike (IT) the which was the (IT) or BODY is (RAISED) a Spiritual BODY MIKE (BODY, BODY, BODY) get it. a BODY and a Spirit does (NOT) Have a BODY MIKE. Notice carefully Paul did not say a SPIRIT BODY, now did HE? As you are forcing the text to mean, again. If i say You were a GODLY Man am i say your are a GOD MAN, NO!. Spiritual means it has the spirit working in (IT) that resurected BODY. And so (IT) becomes “INCORRUPTIBLE” WHEN IT (the body) WAS CORRUPTIBLE . When that tales place then this corruptible Body will have taken on incorruption but it is still a body , just like the one Jesus was raised up in. IMO
peace and love…………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 30 2010,14:02) Shimmer go to Amazon.com and read the review on the Aramaic new testament written by Gabriel Roth. It is supposed to clarify a lot of scriptures that have caused so many devisions in Greek-Roman- Catholic-Protestant Christianity. Check it out and see what you think. peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Cool Gene, ok thanks. Your right about the different Bible versions.JustAskin..
Each type of body has a different glory. Animal different from bird from fish from Man.
So to the difference between earth and sky.
Similarly, the difference between the natural body and the spiritual body. That the natural body is subject to sin and corruption, all natural flesh on earth dies at some point, but the Spiritual bod, like …similar to… the sun moon and stars, exist with a radiant glow, are Sinless and incorruptible, never dying… (of course, these are only verbal similes, not Scientific facts)Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 30 2010,12:22) MIke…………Your forgetting Paul said a (SPIRIT)(UAL) BODY. (IT) that body that was sown in corruption is raised in incorruption. (IT) Mike (IT) the which was the (IT) or BODY is (RAISED) a Spiritual BODY MIKE (BODY, BODY, BODY) get it. a BODY and a Spirit does (NOT) Have a BODY MIKE. Notice carefully Paul did not say a SPIRIT BODY, now did HE? As you are forcing the text to mean, again. If i say You were a GODLY Man am i say your are a GOD MAN, NO!. Spiritual means it has the spirit working in (IT) that resurected BODY. And so (IT) becomes “INCORRUPTIBLE” WHEN IT (the body) WAS CORRUPTIBLE . When that tales place then this corruptible Body will have taken on incorruption but it is still a body , just like the one Jesus was raised up in. IMO peace and love…………………………………gene
Hi Gene,Contrary to what I've been accused of, I never mentioned the words “spirit body”. I don't have to use the words “spirit body” because I know full well that one of the definitions of the Greek word “pneumatikos” is “BELONGING TO A SPIRIT”. So in certain cases in the Bible, “spiritual” means “BELONGING TO A SPIRIT”. In the case of 1 Cor 15, “spiritual body” means “a body BELONGING TO A SPIRIT”.
I've showed this info before, would you like to see it again? Or you can look it up for yourself on NETNotes or Blue Letter. The “belonging to a spirit” definition comes directly from Thayer's Lexicon.
Gene, we've been over this and over this. I will give you a chance to answer these simple questions DIRECTLY AND HONESTLY. If you choose not to, then don't address me on this subject again.
1. Is Jesus now a spirit according to scripture? YES or NO?
2. Does Jesus now have a body according to scripture? YES or NO?
mike
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 30 2010,13:20) JustAskin.. Each type of body has a different glory. Animal different from bird from fish from Man.
So to the difference between earth and sky.
Similarly, the difference between the natural body and the spiritual body. That the natural body is subject to sin and corruption, all natural flesh on earth dies at some point, but the Spiritual bod, like …similar to… the sun moon and stars, exist with a radiant glow, are Sinless and incorruptible, never dying… (of course, these are only verbal similes, not Scientific facts)
I agree with that Shimmer. But instead of “similar to”, I think Paul was saying could be better worded by: “as can be seen by”.He was saying the INVISIBLE, spiritual, heavenly bodies of those PEOPLE raised to heaven would be different than the bodies they had on earth…………AS CAN BE SEEN BY………… the difference between the VISIBLE bodies we can see on earth as compared to the VISIBLE bodies we can see in the heavens, such as the sun, moon and stars. He was simply using the VISIBLE things people could see in heaven as an example of how the INVISIBLE things of heaven are also different from the things of earth…………..namely, PEOPLE'S BODIES.
peace and love,
mikeI havent read your post yet Mike i'm doing too many things and have to go.
Mike, I thought you were doing really well. But then you told Irene and Terrarica it's ok to disagree on what you were defending. So it's ok to disagree – but not debate – with Irene or Terrarica on something so important, but it's also OK to debate everyone else on the lesser things ? Mike ?
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