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Hi Mikeboll,
Before you go can you just tell us what happened to the “Spiritual Body” that you said that Jesus had before he came to earth as a Man.
I think you owe us that much of an explanation?
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 13 2012,10:02) Toby, There exists no such thing as a 'Ghost'.
'Ghost' is not a Scripturally endorsed word.
You demonstrate a lack of knowledge and an indoctrination by the spirit of this age of skepticism.
You may well find it in some naive Scriptural rendering but it is for that exact reason: naiviety.
This demonstrates both your bias and lack of knowledge. The Hebrew word for ghost is rapha.
Here is what Strong's concordance states.
Contrary to what you have written it is settled by Strong's that scripture does use the word ghost.
A ghost is spirit and has a form. It is such a form some claim is the body of a spirit being.
Hi Kerwin,Do you want to start a Thread on that – but use the word “Spirit” in this one.
This thread is about “Spirits in Heaven”.
Thanks.
Oh, by the way, I don't see a single Scriptural reference mentioned concerning Dead People walking about, in that web page you posted concerning what Strong says.
In your new Thread, maybe you can point it out (if you can!).Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 12 2012,21:49) Kerwin………..Even if you use the dictionary you chose and get the meaning the abode of the DEAD, from it, DEAD is DEAD, DEAD is NOT LIVING. Go and look at a Dead Man is he still living, NO, why becasue he (IS) DEAD, Does he talk, walk. think, No he does not. I have posted many scriptures that speak of the state of the DEAD an None of them speak of a dead man still being alive. Why does even the bible use the word Dead if that was not the case Kerwin. Kerwin it has nothing to do with me being a Skeptic or not,though it is true I am a Skeptic of what i hear especially in these days of thousands of false teachings going around in religions. It all has to do with what scriptures say, Tell me this Kerwin why did Jesus say I was “DEAD” and now I am “ALIVE” forever What would be his point if he truly was not dead and “NOW” Alive for evermore. This false belief that a person is still living when he is dead causes People to think they are eternal NOW and Have already eternal life , so why look for a resurrection FROM the DEAD it that were the Case, you can hope for eternal life it you think you already have it. This whole neither world thing is a teaching of Pagans like the ancient Egyptians who believe when you die you go into the “Neither world” where you need a boat to take you on your journey to eternal life, Many pagan peoples believed that when a person dies they Just go into another state of existence . But that is not the teaching of the true word of God.
Isa 38:18……> For the “GRAVE “cannot” praise you, death “cannot” celebrate you: they that go down into the pit “cannot” hope for thy truth.
Pas 89:48……> What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his “SOUL” from the hand of the grave> Selah
Ecc 9:10…….> What ever thy hand finds to do, do if with they might; for there is no “WORK”, no “DEVICE”, nor “KNOWLEDGE”, nor “WISDOM”, in the GRAVE, where you go.
Kerwin i am not being a septic here about what scripture says , but i am a skeptic about you claim that a person is still alive after he dies as a “Living Soul”.
Truly believe you are way off on those one brother. I could give you more but these should suffice.
peace and love to you and yours Kerwin…………………………………….gene
Gene,I could have chosen a dozen dictionaries and they would the same thing because Sheol is the underworld of the Hebrew people to this day.
If you put aside the teachings of this unbelieving age then you would discover that Scripture is known to speak of ghosts. Strong's concordance is clear on this matter as you can see here. A more appropriate translation is “shade” as a ghost is a shade of the person it once was.
My point is a ghost is a spirit being with a form. For this reason some,unknowingly, advocate that one must be a ghost in order to inherit the kingdom of heaven.
Hi Kerwin,
GHOST: An old Saxon word equivalent to soul or spirit. It is the translation of the Hebrew nephesh_ and the Greek _pneuma, both meaning “breath,” “life,” “spirit,” the “living principle” (Job 11:20; Jeremiah 15:9; Matthew 27:50; John 19:30). The expression “to give up the ghost” means to die (Lamentations 1:19; Genesis 25:17; 35:29; 49:33; Job 3:11). (see HOLY GHOST.)
Kerwin, the SAXON's were PAGANS.
Hi Mikeboll,
Before you go can you just tell us what happened to the “Spiritual Body” that you said that Jesus had before he came to earth as a Man.
Toby,
What happened to the BEING Jesus in heaven when he came to earth as a man? In other words, what happened to the existence Jesus was having in heaven when he came to earth as a man?
(Btw, I didn't say I was going anywhere.)
Hi Mikeboll,
This is excellent.
I asked you a single question that you are not answering directly as in the same way you demand others answer you.
Mikeboll, you said that Jesus was in a “Spiritual Body” before he came to Earth as a Man.
What did he do with this “Spiritual Body” when he came to Earth into “the Body prepared for him” making him a Human Being?
Quote (toby @ Mar. 13 2012,18:40) Hi Mikeboll, This is excellent.
I asked you a single question that you are not answering directly as in the same way you demand others answer you.
Mikeboll, you said that Jesus was in a “Spiritual Body” before he came to Earth as a Man.
What did he do with this “Spiritual Body” when he came to Earth into “the Body prepared for him” making him a Human Being?
tobyI got it he was naked right
Terraricca,
Thanks for response.I'm puzzled as to why Mikeboll won't answer the one question I asked him?
He said if I asked him one question at a time he would answer it.
Are you really puzzled, Toby?
Are you flippin' kidding me with that “question”? Think it out, man. It will come to you. Your DIRECT answer is in YOUR answer to my question.
I'll give you just a little more time. If you don't have it figured out all by yourself by tomorrow, I'll show you what you can't see.
Quote (toby @ Mar. 13 2012,19:20) Terraricca,
Thanks for response.I'm puzzled as to why Mikeboll won't answer the one question I asked him?
He said if I asked him one question at a time he would answer it.
tobyyou start to be not worthy of an answer ,you want to teach others but you do not want to learn anything ,
it is all about you ,not Christ ,not God,not the scriptures ,
BUT YOU,
Toby,
I'm sorry for my attitude on that last post. I just can't believe you're asking a question like that.
As soon as there was no more spiritual body belonging to Jesus in heaven, there was no more Jesus in heaven.
How God did this, who knows? Did spiritual Jesus just lose conciousness until 9 months later when he emerged from Mary's womb? I don't know.
But from the moment Mary became impregnated, spiritual Jesus in heaven no longer existed. Not him, nor his spiritual body.
At this exact moment, God started preparing his flesh body within the womb of Mary.
The spiritual body is a part of spiritual Jesus. It's not like he “took off” his spiritual body and dove head first into Mary's egg.
So, the DIRECT answer to your wierd question is:
Jesus didn't do anything with his spiritual body. There wasn't a time when there was a Jesus in heaven without a spiritual body encompassing him. When Jesus was “transformed” from spirit to flesh, all of him was transformed – including his spiritual body.
Your question is like me asking you what happened to the flesh body of Lot's wife when “she” was turned into a pillar of salt.
Uh…………… well………………. wasn't her body also turned into salt along with the rest of her?
See what I mean? Whatever happened to Jesus at the transformation also happened to his body.
Mike………..What did Jesus do with his “SPIRIT BODY” when he was “MORPHED” here on earth was it still floating around in Space waiting for him to come back to it ? Seeing he was on earth with a Physical body and was resurrected with one what ever became of the Spirit Body you say he became. Was he Morphed back from a Physical to His preexisting Spirit BODY? Surely something like that had to have happened in your doctrinal teachings right. When and where in scripture did these Changes take place or is it just your rendition of what you “THINK” Happened?
peace and love………………………………………………………………….gene
Hi Terraricca,
Thank you once again for your response – it is very enlightening as usual.
At the same time I am also puzzled by that same your response as all I am doing is asking a question that I would like Mikeboll to answer seeing that he said he would do so if i asked one question at a time and didn't write a 'Novel' (as he calls it).
I don't understand why it causes you a problem that I ask Mikeboll a single question?
Hi Mikeboll,
I can't see the answer – What is it?
You said that Jesus had (?) a “Spiritual Body” in Heaven before he came as a Human Being in an Earthly Body.
I just wanted to know what you say happened to that “Spiritual Body” when Jesus left Heaven and came into the Earthly Body.
I would just like you to answer that question.
Quote (toby @ Mar. 13 2012,21:01) Hi Terraricca, Thank you once again for your response – it is very enlightening as usual.
At the same time I am also puzzled by that same your response as all I am doing is asking a question that I would like Mikeboll to answer seeing that he said he would do so if i asked one question at a time and didn't write a 'Novel' (as he calls it).
I don't understand why it causes you a problem that I ask Mikeboll a single question?
tobyQuote I don't understand why it causes you a problem that I ask Mikeboll a single question? Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 13 2012,05:03) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 13 2012,10:34) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2012,14:45) Gene I thank for you respond it is intelligently presented I understand it perfectly ,
so I will respond in a similar way;
Quote Terricca…………..I am “JUST” a “LITTLE” Lower the a ANGEL, becasue my body can die, their “BODY” Can't. Notice the word “LITTLE LOWER”. I am familiar with the expression about Christ HE MADE HIM A LITTLE LOWER THAN ANGELS;this we all know applies to Jesus Christ right ?? I do not think so, here is why i do not think so ;
Jesus was made a man latter but it was not the case with the WORD OF GOD ” when the prophecy was given Jesus was not in existence right ? yes, so it only could be talking about someone highly placed and that person or being will put in a lower position than the angels,right ?? yes it is,
so those word in scriptures ;Ps 8:5 You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings
and crowned him with glory and honor.
Terricca…………The scriptures about being a LITTLE Lower then the Angels was talking about MANKIND in a general sense, Not about Jesus alone or separately as a MAN. Lets read it together again, without adding any of our own ideas to it.Psa 8:3……..> When i consider thy heavens the works of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou has ordained; 4 what is man, that you are mindful of him? and the son of man, that you visits him? now notice this carefully Pierre,
For you have made Him (man) a “LITTLE” LOWER than the angels, and has crowned him (MAN) with glory and honor.Pierre this is all talking about Mankind it is not specific to Jesus alone. Don't you notice you have to “CREATE” something mysteriously extra to make it fit your view that it is Just talking about Jesus alone.
Heb 2:6-……> But one in a certain place testified, saying , What is “MAN” , that you are mindful of him? or the son of “MAN” that you visit him. v 7…..> You made him (MANKIND) a LITTLE LOWER than the angels; you crowned him (Mankind) with glory and honor, and did set him (MANKIND) over the works of “THY” hands: V8….> You have put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put (ALL) in subjection under him (mankind) , he (GOD) left “NOTHING” that is not put under him.
Now notice carefully Pierre at the rest of this….
But “NOW” we see “NOT YET”, all things put under him (mankind). But we see (for NOW PIERRE is) Jesus, who was Made (LIKE US) A “LITTLE LOWER” than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; That he by the grace of God should taste death for “EVERY” Man.
peace and love to you and yours Pierre…………………………gene
geneQuote Pierre this is all talking about Mankind it is not specific to Jesus alone. Don't you notice you have to “CREATE” something mysteriously extra to make it fit your view that it is Just talking about Jesus alone. what make you so sure that your interpretation is the right conclusion
now i will tell you this ;all scriptures are for Christ the son of God ,THE WORD OF GOD that became flesh and dwell among us.
no man no humanity exist sins Adam sin we human start to live again wen he died on the stake,
and so remove the curse of sin,MAN (US) HAVE NO CREDIT NO GLORY ONLY SHAME ,BUT IN CHRIST WE GAIN GLORY AND HONOR,BECAUSE OF HIS SACRIFICE.
this is all what i have to say ,i will no more discuss this subject with you ,we are to fare a part in the understanding of scriptures.
Terricca….> it does not take a very smart person to understand those scriptures I Posted to you. Can't you see how you must change all these simply straight forward scriptures to meet your dogmas and false teachings? Ask you co-hart Mike maybe he can explain them to you. Pierre trust me you have a wrong understanding of those scriptures i post from scriptures to you.peace and Love………………………………..gene
Hi Kerwin,
Quote GHOST: An old Saxon word equivalent to soul or spirit. It is the translation of the Hebrew nephesh_ and the Greek _pneuma, both meaning “breath,” “life,” “spirit,” the “living principle” (Job 11:20; Jeremiah 15:9; Matthew 27:50; John 19:30). The expression “to give up the ghost” means to die (Lamentations 1:19; Genesis 25:17; 35:29; 49:33; Job 3:11). (see HOLY GHOST.) Kerwin, the SAXON's were PAGANS.
You are correct that the word ghost comes from the pagan Saxon language but your source also testifies it is a translation of the Hebrew nephesh and Greek pneuma. It is similar to translating the Hebrew word Sheol to the pagan Greek Hades. The Greeks were also pagans.
Quote Oh, by the way, I don't see a single Scriptural reference mentioned concerning Dead People walking about, in that web page you posted concerning what Strong says.
In your new Thread, maybe you can point it out (if you can!).I was not trying to establish that Ghosts walked about; only that they exist. That entry from Strong’s clearly indicates they do as there are 8 occurrences of the word “rapha” ,whose sole definition is ghosts, in the Old Testiment.
Quote This thread is about “Spirits in Heaven”. Was it not claimed by a certain individual that the body of a spirit is spirit? The form of a ghost is composed of spirit. Is a human being resurrected as a ghost? Do only ghosts inherit the kingdom of heaven? Does that sound like the teaching of the Sadducees?
Hi Mikeboll, sorry I didn't see your response until after I posted another request for an answer.
Quote As soon as there was no more spiritual body belonging to Jesus in heaven, there was no more Jesus in heaven. Mikeboll, what happened to the Spiritual Body to make it “No More”? That is still the question I asked.
Quote How God did this, who knows? Did spiritual Jesus just lose conciousness until 9 months later when he emerged from Mary's womb? I don't know. Sorry, 'How God did' what? (This is rhetorical!)
Quote But from the moment Mary became impregnated, spiritual Jesus in heaven no longer existed. Not him, nor his spiritual body. ditto: Mikeboll, what happened to the Spiritual Body to make it “No Longer exist“?
Quote At this exact moment, God started preparing his flesh body within the womb of Mary. So there was a moment of time when the Spirit that is Jesus was neither in Heaven in a Spiritual Body – nor in the Earthly Body of the Baby that was to become Jesus the Man?
What Body, then, was Jesus the Spirit in? (You already said his Spiritual Body did not exist – but I'm not sure you can say that his Spirit did not!?!)Quote The spiritual body is a part of spiritual Jesus. It's not like he “took off” his spiritual body and dove head first into Mary's egg. But yet Jesus was NOT in a Spiritual Body when he was in the Earthly Body – so this just doesn't add up.
Quote So, the DIRECT answer to your wierd question is: Jesus didn't do anything with his spiritual body. There wasn't a time when there was a Jesus in heaven without a spiritual body encompassing him. When Jesus was “transformed” from spirit to flesh, all of him was transformed – including his spiritual body.
Yet you just said that you did not know (“How God did this, who knows?”)
So, Mikeboll, this “Transformed” – is this like saying “Manifested”? How often have you read of “The Manifested Spirit”?As far as I read Scriptures says that Jesus “emptied Himself” (Phil 2:7) if the verse can be taken in that sense
Quote Your question is like me asking you what happened to the flesh body of Lot's wife when “she” was turned into a pillar of salt. Uh…………… well………………. wasn't her body also transformed along with the rest of her?
See what I mean?
No, Mikeboll. The Spirit of Lot's wife was not transformed into a Pillar of Salt.
So, all in all, you still have not answered the question because it was only the Spirit that is Jesus that was in Body of the child.
So, come on – why is it so hard for you to evidence your idea?
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