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Hi Mikeboll
On page 494 of this thread, a number of points in my post to you were asked and you stated in your response that you would answer them if I first answered some point you made.
That was done but you reneged on answering the points.
On page 503 some more points were put to you and again you refused to answer unless I first apologised to you for something you deemed as worthy of an apology.
This was done but you, again, reneged on answering the points put to you.
Could you revisit both these set of points and answer them for the record.
Thanks.
Quote (toby @ Feb. 29 2012,15:25) Hi Mikeboll On page 494 of this thread, a number of points in my post to you were asked and you stated in your response that you would answer them if I first answered some point you made.
That was done but you reneged on answering the points.
On page 503 some more points were put to you and again you refused to answer unless I first apologised to you for something you deemed as worthy of an apology.
This was done but you, again, reneged on answering the points put to you.
Could you revisit both these set of points and answer them for the record.
Thanks.
tobycould you point them out clearly for all to see,
thank you
Yes Toby. Could you list any point you want to ask me about ONE POINT PER POST PER DAY?
If you ask ONE question, then I will answer it. I ignore the majority of your posts because they are long-winded and many times nonsensical. What you do is called “flooding”. The Trinitarians use the same tactic here all the time. They know that point by point, anyone with a Bible can derail their train easily. So they must post a zillion scriptures in the same post, claiming that they all prove that Jesus is God Almighty, and hoping that the sheer volume of information will dissuade others from refuting them.
Btw, I don't remember seeing your answer to why Paul was hopeful to receive a body he wouldn't even need in heaven. Or why he wanted a body just like the one Jesus DOESN'T EVEN HAVE ANYMORE – according to you.
Perhaps the answer was in one of your novels I didn't read. Please separate that answer from the rest of your usual fluff, so I can then read THAT ANSWER ONLY.
Also, in the post that contains THAT ANSWER ONLY, include ONE QUESTION you want me to address.
I will continue to dialogue with you if you are willing to do it in a very succinct manner.
(Sorry my post slamming long posts was so long.
)Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 28 2012,09:45) MIke………..The question was clear, Why would a “MORTAL” or DEAD BODY need to be Quickened (brought back to LIFE) if what you say we are to Have a “SPIRIT BODY”…………….
Hi Gene,The teaching in Romans 8 does not concern resurrected bodies. Paul is talking about our mortal bodies being dead (to sin) if we live by the Spirit.
He is speaking metaphorically about letting our earthly bodies die so we can live, not by the flesh, but by the Spirit. And once we let our mortal bodies die to sin, God will make those same mortal bodies alive again by Spirit instead of sinful flesh.
The whole teaching is about the bodies we have on earth, and not about the bodies of the resurrected.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 29 2012,09:35) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 28 2012,09:45) MIke………..The question was clear, Why would a “MORTAL” or DEAD BODY need to be Quickened (brought back to LIFE) if what you say we are to Have a “SPIRIT BODY”…………….
Hi Gene,The teaching in Romans 8 does not concern resurrected bodies. Paul is talking about our mortal bodies being dead (to sin) if we live by the Spirit.
He is speaking metaphorically about letting our earthly bodies die so we can live, not by the flesh, but by the Spirit. And once we let our mortal bodies die to sin, God will make those same mortal bodies alive again by Spirit instead of sinful flesh.
The whole teaching is about the bodies we have on earth, and not about the bodies of the resurrected.
Mike………….Again a Spirit does not have a MORTAL BODY because it is NOT a BODY, now or ever was, a BODY of any type or Kind. Spirits are what is (IN) BODIES. Trying to Change simple straight forward scriptures to meet you wrong understand does not help to give true understanding MIKE> Forcing the text to say what in fact it is not saying only causes other to get confused MIKE.Mike show us one resurrection that did not include a PHYSICAL BODY. Jesus was raised with a Physical Body, go read the valley of dead Bones and come back an tell us what kind of Bodies was being raised up from the graves they were in, was it a Flesh Body or a “SPIRIT BODY” ?. You have not one example of anyone raised up from the grave without a real Physical Body and not One scripture says Mortal Spirits are raised up in a resurrection from the dead either.
peace and love……………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 29 2012,13:37) Mike………….Again a Spirit does not have a MORTAL BODY because it is NOT a BODY, now or ever was, a BODY of any type or Kind. Spirits are what is (IN) BODIES. Trying to Change simple straight forward scriptures to meet you wrong understand does not help to give true understanding MIKE> Forcing the text to say what in fact it is not saying only causes other to get confused MIKE. Mike show us one resurrection that did not include a PHYSICAL BODY. Jesus was raised with a Physical Body, go read the valley of dead Bones and come back an tell us what kind of Bodies was being raised up from the graves they were in, was it a Flesh Body or a “SPIRIT BODY” ?. You have not one example of anyone raised up from the grave without a real Physical Body and not One scripture says Mortal Spirits are raised up in a resurrection from the dead either.
peace and love……………………………………………..gene
On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.Just wondering if he snuck through the window.
t8,
Read my comment in your new thread about learning something new. I used to believe like you, that Jesus was raised from the dead as a spirit. But he assures his disciples in Luke 24:37 that he is NOT a spirit.
I know he became a life-giving spirit, but I assume it was upon his ascension to heaven, because he had flesh and bone after he was raised on earth – something he assured us that spirits do not have.
(Keep in mind that Jesus also walked on water as flesh, and did many other things that flesh beings normally can't do. Also, Philip, as flesh, was somehow transported through space and/or time. Surely God could have made the still flesh person Jesus appear in the locked room.)
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 29 2012,19:51) t8, Read my comment in your new thread about learning something new. I used to believe like you, that Jesus was raised from the dead as a spirit. But he assures his disciples in Luke 24:37 that he is NOT a spirit.
I know he became a life-giving spirit, but I assume it was upon his ascension to heaven, because he had flesh and bone after he was raised on earth – something he assured us that spirits do not have.
(Keep in mind that Jesus also walked on water as flesh, and did many other things that flesh beings normally can't do. Also, Philip, as flesh, was somehow transported through space and/or time. Surely God could have made the still flesh person Jesus appear in the locked room.)
Mikethis is a verse that bothers me
; MK 16:12 After that, He appeared in a different FORM to two of them while they were walking along on their way to the country.
iF Christ could not be recognized by his disciples and be able to change form at will ,why would he keep his original destroyed body of flesh
???Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 29 2012,12:51) t8, Read my comment in your new thread about learning something new. I used to believe like you, that Jesus was raised from the dead as a spirit. But he assures his disciples in Luke 24:37 that he is NOT a spirit.
I know he became a life-giving spirit, but I assume it was upon his ascension to heaven, because he had flesh and bone after he was raised on earth – something he assured us that spirits do not have.
(Keep in mind that Jesus also walked on water as flesh, and did many other things that flesh beings normally can't do. Also, Philip, as flesh, was somehow transported through space and/or time. Surely God could have made the still flesh person Jesus appear in the locked room.)
Mike…………..Is that not what i have said all along. Spirits are NOT BODIES. The imperishable Body is a Physical Body that simply can not die, Any Physical body can be transported from one point to another in an Instant, as Phillip was and can disappear or appear if God choses to do it. It can also live for ever, as shown in Genesis where God said they would never die if they had taken of the tree of life Adam and Eve would have never died. The physical body Jesus had after his resurrection went through a door , that is not impossible.love and peace……………………………….gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 29 2012,11:25) Hi G,
I am looking forward to the new IMPERISHABLE body of 1Cor 15 but you are not?
Nick………..What do you base this statement on , where have i ever said i am not looking for a imperishable “BODY” Fact is I am looking forward For a Changed BODY, but it still will have Flesh and BONE as Jesus said his resurected Body Had. Your body will not be a NEW ONE it will Be a Changed ONE, Remember where it say, “and we who are alive will be “CHANGED” in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, and again, this Perishable (BODY) must put on the Imperishable, (IT) (this body) is sown in weakness (IT) this body is raised in power and Glory, This (IT) is referencing a physical Body that is Spiritually regenerated.A spirit is not sown in weakness nor is it raised in power and Glory, these scriptures are relating to a Physical Body not a Spirit Body becasue there exists no such thing as a SPIRIT “BODY” IMO
peace and love……………………………………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 01 2012,10:42) Hi G,
No a new creation.
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom
N1Co 6:17 But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
Hi T,
Indeed Christ shares his Spirit with his body.
Unless they share his Spirit they are none of his.We must be buried with him in his death and raised with him in the Spirit [Rom6]
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 01 2012,13:48) Hi T,
Indeed Christ shares his Spirit with his body.
Unless they share his Spirit they are none of his.We must be buried with him in his death and raised with him in the Spirit [Rom6]
NQuote Hi T,
Indeed Christ shares his Spirit with his body.
Unless they share his Spirit they are none of his.this is not what Paul says right ??
1Co 6:17 But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 29 2012,09:27) Yes Toby. Could you list any point you want to ask me about ONE POINT PER POST PER DAY? If you ask ONE question, then I will answer it. I ignore the majority of your posts because they are long-winded and many times nonsensical. What you do is called “flooding”. The Trinitarians use the same tactic here all the time. They know that point by point, anyone with a Bible can derail their train easily. So they must post a zillion scriptures in the same post, claiming that they all prove that Jesus is God Almighty, and hoping that the sheer volume of information will dissuade others from refuting them.
Btw, I don't remember seeing your answer to why Paul was hopeful to receive a body he wouldn't even need in heaven. Or why he wanted a body just like the one Jesus DOESN'T EVEN HAVE ANYMORE – according to you.
Perhaps the answer was in one of your novels I didn't read. Please separate that answer from the rest of your usual fluff, so I can then read THAT ANSWER ONLY.
Also, in the post that contains THAT ANSWER ONLY, include ONE QUESTION you want me to address.
I will continue to dialogue with you if you are willing to do it in a very succinct manner.
(Sorry my post slamming long posts was so long.
)
Hi Mikeboll.I will be happy to oblige your request.
Thank you for suggesting it.You said,
Quote Btw, I don't remember seeing your answer to why Paul was hopeful to receive a body he wouldn't even need in heaven. Or why he wanted a body just like the one Jesus DOESN'T EVEN HAVE ANYMORE – according to you. The resurrection is concerning the raising up of the dead body of a person. The Spirit never dies (cannot die but can be destroyed).
Scriptures concerning the resurrection state that the body that was buried (or rather, in whatever way it is deemed 'dead' by the removal of the animating Spirit) is the same, but renewed body that will be raised up in glory, with power, uncorruptible – viz.: Spiritual.
Well, Jesus was raised up from the dead in a renewed body such that the disciples did not immediately recognise him. The 'Spiritually Renewed' body is capable of greater acts than the 'Natural' body, but is, nonetheless, a flesh and bone (and blood) body.
Scriptures tells us that all those in the first resurrection will be raised up with Spiritually Renewed bodies at the Last Trumpet. Those not dead at that time – their bodies will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. They will all then rise up in the air to meet with the returned Jesus Christ – just as he was when he left.
It seems that Paul will have a body like that of Jesus, just as he was when he rose up in the air and into the cloud.
Jesus' body did not change as he rose up into the cloud, and Scriptures says those in first resurrection will be just like Jesus.
So, yes, Paul will have a body just like Jesus has – a Spiritual Body that will be given him when he is raised bodily (how else!) from the grave.
Mikeboll, I don't know what it is you are saying about Paul being raised from the dead and not having a body because he will not need it. As far as I read scriptures says that it is the Body that is raised up. It is not a New Body – it is the Same Body but it is Re-Newed.
Jesus is the Prototype of the resurrected. What Jesus IS is what they too will be. And Jesus had a Resurrected Body of Flesh and Bone.
Scriptures says that the body of the dead that will be raised up renewed – not a new body given to them.Hi Mikeboll.
This is a separate post link to the 'questions point by point' post.
You said:
Quote (Keep in mind that Jesus also walked on water as flesh, and did many other things that flesh beings normally can't do. Also, Philip, as flesh, was somehow transported through space and/or time. Surely God could have made the still flesh person Jesus appear in the locked room.) The 'walking on water' thing is not about having a Spiritual Body – It is about 'Faith'.
Peter did not gain a Spiritual Body when he briefly walked on the water. Jesus said he didn't (maintain) his faith that he briefly had.
But that being said, what are some of the other things that Jesus' flesh body did?
You mentioned that there many other things.
We're they to do with a Spiritual body – or – Faith?(This is, by the way, one question in multiple parts)
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