Do spirits have bodies?

[toby]

Hi Terraricca.

So if you knew all about the Spirit as you have written – why were you arguing about the Spirit having a body.

You see that when you try to speak falsely you will be found out.  Now you have to admit the Spirit is a 'Force of some kind'.

Thank you Terraricca.  Now, tell that to Mikeboll as well please.

(By the way – It was Mikeboll who introduced the concept of a Spirit being called 'a Being', because he was confusing 'Aspects of a Spirit' (spirit: (Lowercase 's')… love, compassion, fear, humility, truth, untruth, etc.) with 'a Spirit' which is the Entity (An Angel).

This is why Mikeboll refuses to entertain questions such as 'Did the Spirit (entity) that is Jesus have a body while the body of Jesus was in the grave'?

Perhaps you can answer that question seeing that Mikeboll cannot despite all his postering!!

Did the Spirit that Is Jesus (The body is just a mere 'Tent') have a body when it left the body of Jesus to rest with God?

There is only one question to answer in this thread: 'Do Spirits in Heaven have bodies?'

Be of a mind that there are no definitions of 'Body' that claim that a Heavenly Spirit has one.

In fact, the definition of 'Spirit' is that:
– It does Not have a Body
– A Spirit is Bodiless
– It is Incorporeal
– It is Immaterial
– It is Without Form or Shape
– It is Invisible
– Not Tangible (Not able to be touched by common sensory organs)

Now, Terraricca, please show me your definition of 'Spirit' from an agreed source such as a dictionary.

I ask for a common agreed source as no two people can interchange in discussion and come to an agreement if both are using differing definitions of the words and terms used in the discussion.  Do you agree that it is so?

And 'Body' is defined as:
– Having Material Shape and Form
– Flesh and Blood (and Bone)
– Tangible (Able to be touched by common sensory organs)
– Made of Material matter
– Physical

Terraricca, if you disagree with that definition then please show me your own.

[toby]

Hi Mikeboll.

So what you are saying is that you happily use quotes from a source as long as that source 'appears' to agree with what you say – but then you dismiss that source when it changes to what you do not believe?  

That sounds a little dodgy to me.

So what makes you believe what is written in Scriptures that 'Appears' to say what you believe – what makes you believe what apostle Paul says?

It appears that you believe apostle Paul but not Jesus Christ.

You believed Barnes when you thought you found a killer quote but abandoned Barnes when he clearly spoke against you – and that 'Killer quote' was also speaking against you.

So, the only thing you have to say is “Paul says Jesus DOES have a new, glorious body.  Jesus IS a spirit being.  You do the math.”

Ok, let's examine what you say:

“Paul says Jesus DOES have a new, glorious body.”

Please can you show me where Paul says these Exact Words?

You said, “Jesus IS a spirit being.”

Please can you show me where this exact sentence is written?

You said, “You do the math.”

This is not an exercise for mathematicians!

[toby]

Mikeboll,

Also, I took the initiative and looked up the term 'Spirit Being' and the definitions was given as:

'An Incorporeal Being'

Can you tell me what 'an Incorporeal Being' is?

Also quoted was:  'Disembodied Spirit'.
Mikeboll, can you tell me what a 'Disembodied Spirit' is?

[terraricca]

toby

Quote

Hi Terraricca. So if you knew all about the Spirit as you have written – why were you arguing about the Spirit having a body. You see that when you try to speak falsely you will be found out. Now you have to admit the Spirit is a 'Force of some kind'. Thank you Terraricca. Now, tell that to Mikeboll as well please.

this is your miss fortune of not understanding what we are saying but you can BELIEVE WHAT EVER YOU WANT ,YOU NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT BELIEVES STRANGE THINGS ,RELIGION RHETORIC,

so long

[mikeboll64]

Quote (toby @ Feb. 26 2012,16:04)

Hi Mikeboll. So what you are saying is that you happily use quotes from a source as long as that source 'appears' to agree with what you say…………………

Is that what I posted, Toby? Go back and read my post again. Why would I want to discuss scriptures with someone who plays underhanded tricks like this?

A good man would make a retraction and an apology. You do that, and I'll walk you through the math part.

[david]

Not really following this thread.

I suppose this scripture has been discussed:

1 CORINTHIANS 15:42-50, RS: “So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. . . . It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. . . . Thus it is written, ‘The first man Adam became a living being’; the last Adam [Jesus Christ, who was a perfect human as Adam had been at the start] became a life-giving SPIRIT. . . . I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”

[mikeboll64]

Many, many times, David.

The vast majority of us understand this to mean that the elect who are raised to a citizenship in heaven will have a spiritual body – ie: the kind of body that belongs to spirit beings such as angels.

How do you understand it, David?

[david]

yes, like you said.

[david]

I think this argument depends very very much on how you define “BODY.”

If a body is something physical, as of course definitions suggest (because they often don't include the idea of angels, for example) then of course spirits don't have bodies.

We should just make a distinction between “physical body” (human) and “spirit body” (angels, those resurrected to heaven, God, Jesus)

We should rephrase the question to ask; Do spirits have spirit bodies?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (david @ Feb. 26 2012,18:26)

We should rephrase the question to ask; Do spirits have spirit bodies?

I say YES.

[terraricca]

David and mike

If you read trough this topic we have done all you say,but people just refuse to believe, just go back one or two pages and see my talk to Toby ,and see what he answers ,they do not want to see it nothing we can do,

I also agree with you ,but I have not much hope that it would change anything,

[toby]

Hi David.

You said, 'We should rephrase the question to ask; Do spirits have spirit bodies?'

We cant.

The reason is that the definition of a 'Spirit' is that it is Incorporeal (and all the other things listed).

If you check back a page, the definition was given for 'Body' and for 'Spirit'.

Also, there is no such thing as 'Spirit Body' – there is no such term used anywhere in any Scriptural writing by any credible Scriptural author – or are you saying that those in this forum are wiser than those who were given authoritative positions as spokespersons for God's word?

It appears that as those who cannot justify their claim of Spirits having bodies are constantly having to change the title of the thread in order to put flesh on the spirit of the title.

The thread title asks: 'Do Spirits have Bodies? What about God?'

The answer is 'No, they do not have.  Because a Spirit is Bodiless.

Simple really…

However, it appears that licence has been allowed in order to expand the discussion as there is scope to explore what Mikeboll claims as: a 'Body' meaning 'Something that separates one thing from another'.

This is the first 'change' to the thread question.

When that didn't work – when it was shown that a body is not defined as simply a separation between things because… how were there 'a legion of Demons' in the mad man… the thread topic was changed to 'Do Spirits have bodies In Heaven? How about God?'

This is the second change.

However, the Holy Spirit is a Spirit.  Does the Holy Spirit have a body?

The Holy Spirit was dismissed as eligible for discussion as it was deemed 'different' to 'other Spirits'!!

A Third change.

The same could be said about God.

But God has not been wholly excluded – the Spirit that is God is still referred to occasionally in a lank sort of way by one person but nothing of substance is used as material fact – and just as the Holy Spirit is 'different' – I think that person (quite rightly…!!!) should be extremely cautious in staking a claim here.

All in all, I deem that a fourth change.

So, a Spirit (other than God and the Holy Spirit), an Angel, was then modified to say 'a Spirit Being'.

There are no references in Scriptures to the term 'Spirit Being' – this was introduced by one in this forum who was in dispute with another.  The term took on a life of its own by way of the first person constantly using 'aspects of effects of the spirit' (love, meekness, wisdom, and fear, etc.) as a way of deliberately misunderstanding such questions as 'What happens to the Spirit of Man when he dies – does that Spirit have a body?'.

This is answered with something similar to 'The Spirit of man …(and then one or more aspects is listed) is not admissible' when it was clear that the question is speaking of the Spirit that is the animator of the body of the man – like when both Steven and Jesus said, 'Into thy hands I commit my Spirit'.

David, I don't know your thoughts but if such a person or persons were presenting you with an offer of life and when you asked questions surrounding that offer they kept changing the parameters, adding words, deliberately misunderstanding perfectly normal sentences, refusing to use commonly understood everyday agreed meanings of directly relevant words – would you take up their offer?  Or would you deem them to be rogue salesmen?

[toby]

Mikeboll.

I'm not sure what it is you find wrong with what I said as a summary from my understanding of what you wrote:

Quote

I agree with many, many different scholars………………WHEN THEY SPEAK ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE.  Now, since there is no scripture in the Bible that says spirit beings don't have bodies, then it wouldn't really matter if Barnes and Gill wrote an entire novel about “disembodied spirits”, because none of it could be SCRIPTURALLY proven.'

I find it strange that you can agree with only part of what a Scholar says and quote that as 'proof' or part of your proof, and happily dismiss the other part of what that same scholar says.
You happily quote 'Barnes' when he says something that agrees with you then drop him like a hot stone when he does not.  Such a source should be dismissed altogether as being 'Unreliable' – you should not have brought up his writings in the first place then.
This very aspect is the foundation of the Gospels books:  Any writings that were found to have errors, no foundation, we're unbelievable in whole or in part (e.g. The Gospel of Saint Thomas and 'The Maccabees') were not included in 'The Bible' and are NOT referred to in credible and authoritative Christian writings.

However, for the sake of whatever offence you claim was said against you I say that I apologise for whatever that offence was.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (david @ Feb. 27 2012,11:26)

I think this argument depends very very much on how you define “BODY.” If a body is something physical, as of course definitions suggest (because they often don't include the idea of angels, for example) then of course spirits don't have bodies. We should just make a distinction between “physical body” (human) and “spirit body” (angels, those resurrected to heaven, God, Jesus) We should rephrase the question to ask; Do spirits have spirit bodies?

David………….No there exists no such thing as “SPIRIT BODIES” not one scripture say it. Using the word “SPIRITUAL BODY” as a reference to a “SPIRIT BODY” is wrong, becasue SPIRITS are what is (IN) BODIES > There are hundreds of scriptures the show this and not one scripture the say there exist a SPIRIT “BODY”?

The concepts of Spirit Bodies came from Platonic Metaphysical thinking trying to make a Spirit a “BEING” when in fact a Spirit is what animates “BEINGS”.  Spirits give us COGNATE THOUGHTS, or simply our intellects that work in our minds. That is why it say  

let this mind be in you which was also (IN) Christ Jesus or Lord and again , if the “SPIRIT” that raised Jesus from the grave “DWELL” (IN) You (IT) Shall also quicken your (MORTAL) BODY. Now why would it quicken A MORTAL BODIE if those “MORTAL” BODIES were not needed becasue we are going to Be “SPIRIT BODIES” , DO Spirits DIE? they do not according to Scripture Die. SO what is MORTAL that must be “QUICKENED” (brought back to life) is it not A PHYSICAL BODIES that must be resurected?.

David there exist no such thing as a “SPIRIT BODY”,  Spirits are what is (IN) BODIES. Just that simple. IMO

peace and love…………………………………..gene

[terraricca]

Gene

Hmmmm??

[NickHassan]

Hi G,
Good question

[mikeboll64]

Quote (toby @ Feb. 27 2012,02:18)

Mikeboll. I'm not sure what it is you find wrong with what I said as a summary from my understanding of what you wrote: Quote I agree with many, many different scholars………………WHEN THEY SPEAK ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE.  Now, since there is no scripture in the Bible that says spirit beings don't have bodies, then it wouldn't really matter if Barnes and Gill wrote an entire novel about “disembodied spirits”, because none of it could be SCRIPTURALLY proven.' I find it strange that you can agree with only part of what a Scholar says and quote that as 'proof' or part of your proof, and happily dismiss the other part of what that same scholar says.

Do you see it now, Toby?  When they speak ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE.  

Let me give you one of MANY examples.  You know I use NETNotes ALOT, right?  But NETNotes was compiled by 25 TRINITARIAN scholars, who list as one of the definitions of spirit:  “the third person in the Trinity Godhead”.

Now, do YOU agree with this?  I hope not.  But more importantly, are they speaking ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE with this definition?

See?  They are NOT speaking according to scripture in this particular case, so I dismiss that as a valid definition of the Greek word “pneuma”.

Yet I agree whole heartedly with many of the insights they offer that ARE according to the scriptures.

So, about Barnes and Gill, you have to ask yourself:  IS THERE ANY SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER THAT SPIRIT BEINGS DON'T HAVE BODIES?

There is NONE.  Therefore I will dismiss what you posted from Barnes and Gill because it did NOT come from any scriptural teaching.

On the contrary, the fact that God gives to EACH SEED a body to His liking IS scriptural.

Do you at least understand the difference between “according to scripture” and “you happily use quotes from a source as long as that source 'appears' to agree with what you say – but then you dismiss that source when it changes to what you do not believe?”  ?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2012,13:48)

Hi G, Good question

I'm with Pierre………………….. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Which question, Nick? Why is it good? And what is the answer to it?

[GeneBalthrop]

MIke………..The question was clear, Why would a “MORTAL” or DEAD BODY need to be Quickened (brought back to LIFE) if what you say we are to Have a “SPIRIT BODY” because we Know SPIRITS don't DIE. They go back to GOD who Gave them in the First Place. So it is the “MORTAL BODY” that is Resurrected to eternal Life NOT the SPIRIT. That is what Nick and Pierre's Hmm, meant. Pierre simply did not think about that before. You haven't either, IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………….gene

[NickHassan]

Hi G,
We know it applies to the Jewish people[ez 37] and this was written to the Jewish converts in Rome.
I am not sure how this might relate though.

[Author]

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