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Hi Terraricca, that was interesting reading. There is certainly a lot of interesting points that the author made.
However, I was rather hoping for you opinion on the matter of Jesus, Nicodemus, and what was meant by 'the wind blows where it will. It comes and goes from and to where no man knows'.
Perhaps you could expand your own opinion on this explicit point, which is what is linked to the topic of 'Do Spirits have Bodies in Heaven.
I made a small error on the last page:
“For instance: What is it that is clothed in a Spiritual Body? (Is it not the Body of Human Beings raised from the dead)”
Of course, that should say:
“For instance: What is it that is clothed in a Spiritual Body? (Is it not the Spirit of Human Beings raised from the dead)”
Quote (toby @ Feb. 25 2012,04:50) “For instance: What is it that is clothed in a Spiritual Body? (Is it not the Spirit of Human Beings raised from the dead)”
Yes – at least those raised to a citizenship in heaven. Those spirit beings will be clothed with a spiritual body like the ones angels are clothed with right now.Those who remain to dwell on earth will be clothed with flesh bodies – just like they are today.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 25 2012,07:25) Hi Gene, I didn't read Toby's post, but I do know that both you and Toby keep claiming that Jesus said spirits don't have BODIES. That is a lie against scripture.
What if Jesus had said, “Automobiles don't have flesh and bone”? Would that mean the same as “Automobiles don't have BODIES“? YES or NO, Gene?
Flaws like this happen when people try to FORCE the scriptures into teaching something they don't really teach.
Mike……You have one big problem a automobile is NOT a “BEING” a LIVING SOUL < Jesus was not exampling a no living substance now was he , No He was talking about Himself a LIVING SOUL. Lets keep it to the context of that text instead of trying desperately to force the text and ideas to meet you misunderstandings of Spirit having BODIES.“You say”, scripture says that Spirit have bodies O really, so where is that written at I would like to see it. Fact IS NOT “ONE” scripture say they do have bodies at all. There is no such thing as a “BODY SPIRIT” in existence no matter what you say no scripture backs that up. Pure hog wash Mike.
God who is spirit does not have a body he lives “vicariously” in and through his creation. He was truly (IN) Jesus and IN all True Saints of His, by virtue of His spirit (INTELLECT) and Intellects have no bodies . Your Platonic metaphysical belief system fails MIKE. It simply is not true no matter how much you think it is. Spirit do not have bodies of any kind at all. Never did and never will.
peace and love………………………………………….gene
Okay Gene,
Let me put this into terms you can understand:
What if Jesus said, “ANGELS don't have flesh and bone”. Would that be the same as saying, “ANGELS don't have BODIES”? YES or NO?
Mike………….YOU can try all you want to twist up what Jesus “actually” said , but the facts are he simply did not say that now did he? That is you problem here you insert all kind of human logic into what scripture actually is saying and try desperately to make a case to fit you renditions of Metaphysical thinking.
Scripture does not say what you are implying so you simply set out to “FORCE” it to> You Trinitarians and Preexistence do that with all kind of scriptures you make it say what in fact it is not truly saying, and there by corrupting the word of GOD, Through you Human Metaphysical reasonings. You would have been a Great Student of PLATO and ARISTOTLE a pagan Greek thinking follower. IMO
peace and love…………………………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 25 2012,09:00) Mike………….YOU can try all you want to twist up what Jesus “actually” said , but the facts are he simply did not say that now did he?
That is right, Gene. Jesus simply did NOT say, “Spirits don't have BODIES”. He did NOT say that, did he Gene?I am, however, glad that you've suddenly realized that we must go by what is actually said in scriptures. I was wondering when you were going to come around to that realization.
So, when Paul says angels ARE ministering spirits, then that is what we should believe, right Gene? We can't just start adding our own words or thoughts into that scripture and PRETEND that Paul said angels HAVE ministering spirits INSIDE OF THEM, right Gene?
I will remember your very words from this post: “the facts are he simply did not say that, now did he?”
I want to remember those exact words from you Gene, so I can use them on you when you start adding your words into the scriptures. You know, like when you PRETEND John 1:14 says “the Word came to be IN someone who was flesh” instead of “the Word BECAME flesh”. Or when you PRETEND that John 17:5 says “glorify me with the glory THE THOUGHT OF ME IN YOUR HEAD had before the world began”.
From now on, I will try to remember to use your own wonderful words from this post against you when you start doing silly things like adding your own words into the scriptures to FORCE them to teach what you WANT them to teach.
So thanks for those words, Gene.
Back to the point, did Jesus say that spirits don't have BODIES, Gene, like you and Toby keep claiming?
The answer, in YOUR OWN WORDS, is:“The facts are he simply did not say that, now did he?”
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 26 2012,00:44) Quote (toby @ Feb. 25 2012,04:50) “For instance: What is it that is clothed in a Spiritual Body? (Is it not the Spirit of Human Beings raised from the dead)”
Yes – at least those raised to a citizenship in heaven. Those spirit beings will be clothed with a spiritual body like the ones angels are clothed with right now.Those who remain to dwell on earth will be clothed with flesh bodies – just like they are today.
Hi MB,
Having our citizenship NOW in heaven does not mean we live there now or in the future does it?Having citizenship in heaven means being a citizen of heaven. Just like having citizenship in the U.S. means I'm a citizen of the U.S. – whether I'm actually IN the U.S. or not. But yes, it has to do with being a citizen of heaven.
Poetic language, Nick. Learn to tell the difference.
(Do me a favor and go talk to someone else for a while, okay?)
Yes Nick. Like when Paul speaks of having already “died” to sin. Do you suppose Paul LITERALLY died?
Nick, this topic is about whether or not spirit beings such as angels and the raised Jesus have bodies in heaven or not.
Stick to the topic.
My point exactly MB,
So why do you think we will live in heaven because we have citizenship there NOW?Quote (toby @ Feb. 26 2012,03:22) Hi Terraricca, that was interesting reading. There is certainly a lot of interesting points that the author made. However, I was rather hoping for you opinion on the matter of Jesus, Nicodemus, and what was meant by 'the wind blows where it will. It comes and goes from and to where no man knows'.
Perhaps you could expand your own opinion on this explicit point, which is what is linked to the topic of 'Do Spirits have Bodies in Heaven.
tobyJn 3:6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
Jn 3:7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’
Jn 3:8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”the first question we should ask is ;of what spirit did Jesus talks about ?
sins he talks to a man that has a spirit (soul) but carnal oriented,so Christ was not talking about that one but at a spirit to obtain,to reach for,but being available then right there with Christ,
so the spirit what Jesus was talking about is the true understanding of gods will ,to worship him in truth and spirit.so by having done this “this is taking place;but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.;now Gods can if so wanted use his holy spirit
to on you to do his will ,Now Gods spirit is not as man but act as God sees fit;
so ;Jn 3:8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
WHAT CHRIST IS SAYING IS THAT WE NOT UNDERSTAND THE WHY'S FOR WHAT GOD IS DOING AND MAY LOOK LIKE WE DO NOT KNOW WERE WE GOING IF WE ARE USE BY HIM OR PREVENTED TO GO WERE WE WOULD LIKE TO GO,
WE HAVE FOR THIS THE EXAMPLE OF ;STEVEN,WHO SPEAKS UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT TO THE CROWD THAT STONE HIM,
WE HAVE THE EXAMPLE OF PETER THAT WAS CALLED TO CORNELIUS HOUSE,OR WHEN HE WAS ASKED BY JESUS OF WHAT HE THINK OF WHO HE WAS ,AND SO ANSWER JESUS; “YOU ARE THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD”
WE ALSO THE EXAMPLE OF PHILIP AND THE ETHIOPIAN READING ISIAH.
OR PAUL ON HIS VOYAGES,AND HIS RESTRICTION TO GO BEYOND WHAT GOD AS PERMIT HIM TO GO AND PREACH .
AND SO IT IS WITH ANY ONE THAT HIS ; So it is with everyone born of the Spirit ;
please do not see my capital letters as yelling but as important message.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2012,11:14) My point exactly MB,
So why do you think we will live in heaven because we have citizenship there NOW?
Nonly 144k will + 12
Hi T,
The Spirit of God is far more than just UNDERSTANDING.
The Spirit does the mighty works of God through men.
The Spirit shows the wonderful character of our God.
The Spirit produces good fruit and powerful gifts.
1Cor 12. Gal5. Eph 5Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2012,11:36) Hi T,
The Spirit of God is far more than just UNDERSTANDING.
The Spirit does the mighty works of God through men.
The Spirit shows the wonderful character of our God.
The Spirit produces good fruit and powerful gifts.
1Cor 12. Gal5. Eph 5
Nickyou do not understand what his Gods spirit.
God holy spirit his his ,and can do many works,has many powers,but always fulfill his will,
if he want to lead or punish or bless someone with power or understanding this is not up to us but to him
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