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Okay Toby,
Since I looked again at your post, and it seems you took a lot of time and effort to make it all pretty and such, I will answer each point……………………………immediately after you answer my two questions that have been waiting.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 20 2012,09:47) I don't have the time or patience to wade through all the other garbage you post.
Garbage?Are you a Moderator here?
HAVE YOU CALLED ANYONE ELSES POSTS GARBAGE??
Do you not think it takes me time to do what I do?
Yes Toby,
IMO, most of what you post is unrelatable, unscriptural, unprovable garbage.
But did you not notice my last of the three posts? I await your answers to the two questions.
Quote (toby @ Feb. 20 2012,16:40) Hi Terraricca, What are you talking about. The post you quoted was to Mikeboll.
Why do you post a response to someone else's questions.
Do you actually have anything of value to say in this thread?
tobyI did not ask you to tell us that God created all things ,this I knew almost before I was 4 years old ,
this is to remind you that after all you are on a forum ,
NOW ;YOU STILL DID NOT ANSWER THE QUESTIONS ,WHY ??IS IT BECAUSE I AM JUST A FISHERMAN ,IN YOUR EYES OF NO VALUE ?? IF YOU HAVE TRUTH IN YOU WE ALL CAN SEE IT WELL SOME OF US DO,
ARE YOU BY ANY I DO NOT KNOW? A PREACHER ?IF YOU ARE I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU DO NOT ANSWER QUESTIONS ,JUST ASK THEM ,RIGHT
?IT SEEMS YOU HAVE A HABIT OF NOT ANSWERING QUESTION THAT MIGHT JEOPARDIZE YOUR BELIEVES ,YOU ARE NOT ALONE ,MANY DO NOT WANT TO LEARN THEY KNOW IT ALL,
AND WHAT THEY DO NOT KNOW BECOMES IRRELEVANT TO THEM.Pierre
Hi Mikeboll,
Once again you misunderstand due to your desperate determination. You said:
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 19 2012,00:18) Toby, Paul surely wasn't anxious to receive a body like the one Jesus now has if Jesus no longer even has a body. Paul surely wouldn't have told us that God would not leave us naked in heaven if He will. What do you think that even means, Toby? What do you think “earthly tent” and “heavenly tent” mean in 2 Cor 5? Paul has already explained that the new resurrected body will be Spiritual (Please do not substitute the word 'Spirit'), that is, created (Born) of the Holy Spirit. It will be powerful, Incorruptible, everlasting and Glorious.
This is in contrast to the Natural Body (Please do not substitute the word 'Physical') which is sinful flesh from sinful flesh.
The 'Earthly Tent' is the Natural Body.
The 'Heavenly Tent' is the Spiritual Body.There is nothing different that he says here that he did not say before.
Mikeboll, if the Spirit of man is clothed in a body of Natural flesh before death, if the Spirit of man is clothed in a Spiritual Body when he is resurrected, what is the Spirit of man clothed in between those two events?
Does the Spirit of Man have a body?
See, Mikeboll, the question is still on the table no matter which way you try to cut it?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 20 2012,10:23) Yes Toby, IMO, most of what you post is unrelatable, unscriptural, unprovable garbage.
Mikeboll, is it because you cannot refute anything that I wrote that you cannot post against my last post to you – you have no where to go and are just playing for time.Terraricca,
When you post something to do with 'Does a Spirit have a Body in Heaven' along with your Scriptural support then a response will be given to you.
Do you have any evidence of a Spirit in Heaven having a body?Quote (toby @ Feb. 20 2012,20:26) Terraricca,
When you post something to do with 'Does a Spirit have a Body in Heaven' along with your Scriptural support then a response will be given to you.
Do you have any evidence of a Spirit in Heaven having a body?
tobyyou have confirmed my suspicions,it is now clear ,you have no clue ,you are a religion maker of dogma,
interpreting scriptures but never understand them out side of your own religion,talking to you is useless ,because you only repeat the scriptures what I can read ,so do not need someone to read for me ,good by,until you answer my questions.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 20 2012,14:40) Quote (toby @ Feb. 20 2012,20:26) Terraricca,
When you post something to do with 'Does a Spirit have a Body in Heaven' along with your Scriptural support then a response will be given to you.
Do you have any evidence of a Spirit in Heaven having a body?
tobyyou have confirmed my suspicions,it is now clear ,you have no clue ,you are a religion maker of dogma,
interpreting scriptures but never understand them out side of your own religion,talking to you is useless ,because you only repeat the scriptures what I can read ,so do not need someone to read for me ,good by,until you answer my questions.
Pierre
Terraricca, it is you who has just openly revealed your ignorance on this. If you had something to contribute to this thread then that was the time to do it.
The fact that you cannot produce a post that has any reference to the thread topic question, is obvious.Oh, sorry, yes, Soup! Yes, Spirit is a Soup. But how do you ask me that when it has already been said – ok, not the word (Soup) but the concept.
You yourself used the word but yet did not understand when you read it from another.
'Soup', nice one Terraricca, good word. I think I will use it, too.
'Soup'… Yes, I like itQuote (toby @ Feb. 20 2012,13:26) Terraricca,
When you post something to do with 'Does a Spirit have a Body in Heaven' along with your Scriptural support then a response will be given to you.
Do you have any evidence of a Spirit in Heaven having a body?Terraricca, I ask you again: can you show evidence of 'Spirit with Body in Heaven'.
THAT is the thread topic question!
Quote (toby @ Feb. 21 2012,05:31) Quote (toby @ Feb. 20 2012,13:26) Terraricca,
When you post something to do with 'Does a Spirit have a Body in Heaven' along with your Scriptural support then a response will be given to you.
Do you have any evidence of a Spirit in Heaven having a body?Terraricca, I ask you again: can you show evidence of 'Spirit with Body in Heaven'.
THAT is the thread topic question!
tobyJob 1:6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.
Job 1:7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”
Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it.”1CO 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,
Phil 1:10 so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ
COL 1:22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
HEB 5:1 For every high priest taken from among men is appointed on behalf of men in things pertaining to God, in order to offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins;
HEB 5:6 just as He says also in another passage,
“YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER
ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK.”HEB 10:9 then He said, “BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second.
1JN 3:5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.LK 1:8 Now it happened that while he was performing his priestly service before God in the appointed order of his division
DA 4:17 “This sentence is by the decree of the angelic watchers
And the decision is a command of the holy ones,
In order that the living may know
That the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind,
And bestows it on whom He wishes
And sets over it the lowliest of men.”EZE 14:5 in order to lay hold of the hearts of the house of Israel who are estranged from Me through all their idols.”’
EZE 14:11 in order that the house of Israel may no longer stray from Me and no longer defile themselves with all their transgressions. Thus they will be My people, and I shall be their God,”’ declares the Lord GOD.”ISA 57:15 For thus says the high and exalted One
Who lives forever, whose name is Holy,
“I dwell on a high and holy place,
And also with the contrite and lowly of spirit
In order to revive the spirit of the lowly
And to revive the heart of the contrite.ISA 30:1 “Woe to the rebellious children,” declares the LORD,
“Who execute a plan, but not Mine,
And make an alliance, but not of My Spirit,
In order to add sin to sin;JOB 10:22 The land of utter gloom as darkness itself,
Of deep shadow without order,
And which shines as the darknessEX 20:20 Moses said to the people, “ Do not be afraid; for God has come in order to test you, and in order that the fear of Him may remain with you, so that you may not sin.”
EX 23:2 “You shall not follow the masses in doing evil, nor shall you testify in a dispute so as to turn aside after a multitude in order to pervert justice;
EX 27:21 “In the tent of meeting, outside the veil which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall keep it in order from evening to morning before the LORD; it shall be a perpetual statute throughout their generations for the sons of Israel.Ge 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
Ge 1:27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.now i ask you again do you think that God and all the spirit beings are living in a soup ?
or are they all well established individuals and that like us all have duty's and are well organized ,just as in all what God as created ,but living souls are either from flesh or spirit or visible or invisible world,NO SOUP,BUT WELL SETUP IN RESPECTFUL ORDER ,NOT KAYOS,EVEN CREATION AS BEEN DONE IN THE RIGHTFUL ORDER,GOD IS NOT A MAGICIAN ,A MAGICIAN IS DECEIT ,GOD HIS KNOWLEDGE AND POWER,BIG DIFFERENCE ,
HERE I STOP,YOUR TURN
Pierre
Mikeboll,
Seeing that the earthly Tent is the natural body in which 'we groan' (due to sin), and Paul yearns for the Spiritual Tent (the sinless body) – how do you see it that this is speaking of the Spirit Beings of Heaven being in a 'Spiritual' body?
Are Angels clothed in a Spiritual Tent?
Where does Scripture say so?Paul is referring to the elect (The great 'We') – at no time does he refer to Angels, except to say that the resurrected man will not procreate nor die – they will be everlasting like the Holy Angels of Heaven.
Moreover, Mikeboll, is a Tent a 'Permanent Dwelling Place'
Furthermore, does one not 'Pitch Their Tent' in different places at different times…
Even more, does one not 'Go in and out' of a Tent.
And then, If it is the Spirit that is clothed in a (Temporary Dwelling), what is the Spirit clothed in when it is neither in the Natural Body nor the Spiritual Body?
What is the Spirit in when it is Naked?
Let us say this… Jesus was in his Spiritual Tent, which is his Spiritual Body, that Scriptures clearly shows him proving to the Disciples.
Jesus, beforehand, stepped out of his Spiritual Tent, and was in his Naked Spirit.The Naked Spirit can go anywhere, is not restricted by Physical Boundaries, nor Earthy Parameters, so time and distance or a mere wall or door of a building is not even a consideration to a Naked Spirit (cue, the Demon Spirits who in one moment were in the body of the mad man, and the next they were in the bodies of the swines a long way off in the distance!!)
Jesus enters the room among his Disciples, and then enters his Spiritual Tent to effectively manifest himself among them.
This spiritual tent has his name emblazoned on it, as opposed to the Angels, who only have generic Spiritual Tents, which are non-personal, and only allocated by permission of God. (As shown already – Demon Spirits cannot partake of these allocated generic Spiritual tents, and therefore cannot manifest themselves in the physical world as physical beings).
Terrarica,
What did I say in the previous post to you about 'Soup'.
Why do you ask me to answer a question that I just answered to you?Quote (toby @ Feb. 21 2012,15:15) Terrarica, What did I say in the previous post to you about 'Soup'.
Why do you ask me to answer a question that I just answered to you?
Quote (toby @ Feb. 19 2012,20:23) The 'Heavenly Tent' is the Spiritual Body.
You are correct. The heavenly tent is the spiritual body with which the elect, whose citizenship is in heaven, will be clothed. God will not leave them naked (bodiless).Quote (toby @ Feb. 19 2012,20:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 20 2012,10:23) Yes Toby, IMO, most of what you post is unrelatable, unscriptural, unprovable garbage.
Mikeboll, is it because you cannot refute anything that I wrote that you cannot post against my last post to you…………
I can refute all of it, starting with the fact that Jesus NEVER said spirits don't have BODIES, like you keep stating.Quote (toby @ Feb. 19 2012,20:23) Does the Spirit of Man have a body?
Once again, spirit BEINGS have bodies. Things like “team spirit” do not.Quote (toby @ Feb. 20 2012,05:31) Terraricca, I ask you again: can you show evidence of 'Spirit with Body in Heaven'.
Can you show evidence of “Spirit being without body in heaven”?We have many eye witness accounts to fall back on. What do you have?
Hi Mikeboll.
You said:
Quote You are correct. The heavenly tent is the spiritual body with which the elect, whose citizenship is in heaven, will be clothed. God will not leave them naked (bodiless). Thank you for agreeing.
Can you expand a bit on the 'not leave them naked' though.
Who, and what, is the 'them' that the text refers to?
Consider the answer in context of the topic question that asks: 'Does a Spirit have a body in Heaven?'.
Clearly, a Spirit can enter into a Body, or be put into a body, but that is not the topic question. The topic question asks if that Spirit, itself, has a body.
You said:
Quote I can refute all of it, starting with the fact that Jesus NEVER said spirits don't have BODIES, like you keep stating. Well, you certainly can 'claim' to be able to refute all of it. And when you do you condemn yourself, because no matter what you say, it is obvious, that you would be refuting the Scriptures – and just remember that 'Our fight is not against flesh and blood (the fight is not really against me) – but against spiritual forces of darkness in heavenly places (The fight is against lies and deception).
The Spiritual Body that Jesus was in, and showed to his disciples, and over 400 others, was a body, of sinless; incorruptible; undecayable; glorious; spiritual; flesh and bone.
Jesus said that a Spirit does not have a sinless; incorruptible; undecayable; glorious; spiritual flesh and bone body, as the disciples can clearly see, touch and feel that he does. He said this to PROVE to them, that he was a fully human flesh and bone being in the Spiritual Body that he was raised up in from the grave.
His natural body had died, meaning that the Spirit was removed from it. This was pronounced by him in his own words: 'Father, into thy hands I commit my Spirit'.
His death was proved physically by the soldier's unusual technique of jabbing Jesus in his side with a spear, which let his blood flow out (The normal method would be to break the person's leg) – Thus fulfilling a long known prophecy.
You said:
Quote Once again, spirit BEINGS have bodies. Things like “team spirit” do not. Let me clarify, then. When Jesus died, where did his Spirit go? Was the Spirit that left his body – in a body?
Quote Can you show evidence of “Spirit being without body in heaven”? We have many eye witness accounts to fall back on. What do you have?'
Let's take the latter part first – Please show your proof.
Your statement doesn't make sense.
Ok, the former part:
The definition of a Spirit is that it is opposed to the physical:
it is bodiless;
it is immaterial;
it is invisible;
it is not of material form nor shape.A holy Spirit's abode, is in the Spirit realm, which is Heaven.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 20 2012,03:02) Gene, The only question of this thread is whether or not angels and Jesus have bodies. You agree with me and Pierre that they do, and Toby insists that they don't.
Aren't you smart enough to know which side of the discussion you're even on?
Or is it that you are so hell-bent on disagreeing with anything I say that you can't even see which end is up anymore?
Mike……..Don't give me this BS, You are saying that SPIRITS (ARE) BODIES themselves. That is NOT what I or Toby are saying or Have EVER Said. You even say Jesus was Morphed back into a SPIRIT “BODY” existence when he went to heaven, which is simply a LIE According to What He said at lest, He said he was NOT a SPIRIT , why?, because a spirit does not have a body as you see “I HAVE” Get it MIKE “NO” SPIRIT has a BODY Period and in all your useless Posts you have never shown ONE Spirit “BODY” in scripture.You problem is you back round in Metaphysical religious beliefs of the Trinitarians and Preexistence you tend to view religion in a Mystery Religious Sense as Plato and Aristotle the original Greek Metaphysical pagan teachers did which infected true Christianity a long long time ago and you have bought into it hook line a sinker. IMO
peace and love………………………………gene
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