Do spirits have bodies?

[terraricca]

Quote (toby @ Feb. 18 2012,15:31)

Terraricca, Please please please … Can you just show me from Scriptures where it says that a Spirit in the Spirit realm has a body when Jesus himself said that a Spirit does not have a body. Terraricca, are you wiser than Jesus Christ who spoke those words? Terraricca, I only asked to you show me you proof of a Spirit in the Spirif realm having a body. Thank you.

toby

Quote

Please please please … Can you just show me from Scriptures where it says that a Spirit in the Spirit realm has a body when Jesus himself said that a Spirit does not have a body.

I did not knew that the spirit world lives in a SOUP of beings;
and that my friend is not in scriptures.(you really should read this topic from the beginning)

Toby, are you wiser than Jesus Christ who spoke those words?

Toby, I only asked to you show me you proof of a Spirit in the Spirif realm having NOT a body. Thank you.

I think you should start to understand that you are talking to yourself ,I hope it helps you ,

Pierre

[toby]

Huh?

Terraricca, I thought the idea was to show how a Spirit has a body in the spirit realm?

Are you saying that you cannot do this?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (toby @ Feb. 17 2012,14:54)

Mikeboll, the 'outer parameter' (perimeter?)

Parameter: limits or boundaries

I meant parameter.

Quote (toby @ Feb. 17 2012,14:54)

Mikeboll, can you post a definition of 'Body' from a credible source,

Such as dictionary.com?  Did you know that out of all their 23 definitions of “body”, “body of water” is not mentioned?  Yet if you Google “body of water”, you'll find much information on it.

My point?  Just because standard dictionaries don't list it doesn't mean it isn't a definition.

Now, Pierre and I have both given our understanding of “body” in the case of angels.  We both understand it to be the outer parameter or boundary that separates one thing from all other things.

In that understanding, even God has a body of some kind.  Because without something separating what IS God from all the things are are NOT God, then all things would BE God.

Toby, it is truly okay with me if you disagree.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (toby @ Feb. 17 2012,16:39)

Huh? Terraricca, I thought the idea was to show how a Spirit has a body in the spirit realm? Are you saying that you cannot do this?

I think he has turned it around on you, Toby. He is now asking for YOU to show that a spirit being DOESN'T have a body in the spirit realm.

Are you saying that you cannot do this?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 18 2012,18:50)

Quote (toby @ Feb. 17 2012,16:39) Huh? Terraricca, I thought the idea was to show how a Spirit has a body in the spirit realm? Are you saying that you cannot do this? I think he has turned it around on you, Toby.  He is now asking for YOU to show that a spirit being DOESN'T have a body in the spirit realm. Are you saying that you cannot do this?

[toby]

Hi Mikeboll. Are you saying that after all of these pages, you cannot post a single proof that a Spirit in the Spirit realm has a body?

Turning round the question back to the questioner in this case just shows that you yourself have no answer.

And in case you think I won't answer you : Jesus Christ himself said that a Spirit does not have a body.

Now you ask me to show my evidence yet it was written many times now.  Even written in the very posts you quoted asking me to show my evidence…. How do you then ask but refuse to answer my question to you (actually, it was to Terraricca!)

[toby]

Mikeboll,
Are you saying that you cannot post definitions of the word 'Body'?  Does it embarrass you case to do so?
I'm not looking for YOUR DEFINITION as anyone can INVENT their own definition of anything anytime they can't prove their own case on an issue.

To discuss, argue, debate, dispute or converse competitively it is necessary to be in agreement about main terms in question.  This cannot be achieved if one person or many decide to create their own definition different to what is understood within the bounds of the topic.

This discussion is about a Spirit Being in the Heavenly realm and whether such a Being has a Body.

So far the only way you can make a claim to your credit is by redefining what YOU want to think of as a BODY.

Now think how your definition does not work:  What is the definition of a HUMAN BODY?  What about a Fish, Bird or Animal Body?  Is it not that it has FLESH.
And Living Flesh has a Spirit in it to animate that body of flesh making it a SOUL.

Then you are saying that God created Spirit Flesh and put a Spirit in it to animate it… Then why are you arguing with Gene?

Gene, Mikeboll agrees with you – all this time and the grief he put you through and he was agreeing with you – this is an amazing break through.

[toby]

Mikeboll,
A definition of Body for you.

Quote

Noun: The physical structure of a person or an animal, including the bones, flesh, and organs. Verb: Give material form to something abstract. Synonyms: corpse – flesh – trunk – carcass.

[toby]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 18 2012,11:47)

Quote (toby @ Feb. 17 2012,14:54) Mikeboll, the 'outer parameter' (perimeter?) Parameter: limits or boundaries I meant parameter.

Mikeboll, 'Parameter' are values that go towards calculating the characteristics of something.  'Parameter', even 'Outer Parameter' does not mean 'Outer Body', but 'the …values… of that outer Body'.  So, once again you are re-defining to your own desire.

'Skin, outer covering' is a term that more adequately describes what you are trying to say. But 'Skin' is not body?
Try it in a sentence:
'And God took the 'outer parameter(s)' of the body of an animal and clothed them with it' (Height, and width of each part of the animal!!!!?)

Mikeboll, you are trying to say that a Spirit has a Skin.  The Body is the Inner material.

Quote (toby @ Feb. 17 2012,14:54)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 18 2012,11:47) Mikeboll, can you post a definition of 'Body' from a credible source, Such as dictionary.com?  Did you know that out of all their 23 definitions of “body”, “body of water” is not mentioned?  Yet if you Google “body of water”, you'll find much information on it. My point?  Just because standard dictionaries don't list it doesn't mean it isn't a definition. Now, Pierre and I have both given our understanding of “body” in the case of angels.  We both understand it to be the outer parameter or boundary that separates one thing from all other things. In that understanding, even God has a body of some kind.  Because without something separating what IS God from all the things are are NOT God, then all things would BE God.

Why could you not just post the 23 definitions that say what a Body is?

Quote

Toby, it is truly okay with me if you disagree.

Mikeboll, I wouldn't want you to leave with a false understanding of what you have been saying for 870+ pages.  That would be remiss of me – I'm sure you would agree.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (toby @ Feb. 18 2012,02:17)

Hi Mikeboll.  Are you saying that after all of these pages, you cannot post a single proof that a Spirit in the Spirit realm has a body?

I could post about 100 of them – all of which you will dismiss as “visions” and “symbolic” – although you have no scriptural reason to do so.

I could remind you that it was God Himself who designed the cherubim atop the ark of the covenant – but you would pretend that God was “playing into human fantasy” – again, with no scriptural reason to do so.

On the other hand, you have absolutely NO scripture to support that angels DON'T have bodies.  Misquoting Luke 24 is not anything to put your money behind, Toby.  Jesus said that spirits don't have FLESH AND BONE.  He did NOT say they don't have BODIES.

So, is your MISQUOTED version of Luke 24:39 all you have?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (toby @ Feb. 18 2012,02:20)

Mikeboll, Are you saying that you cannot post definitions of the word 'Body'? Does it embarrass you case to do so?

Does it embarrass YOU that your “final word source” doesn't even list “body of water” in their definitions – despite the fact it is one of the real definitions of “body”?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (toby @ Feb. 18 2012,02:20)

Now think how your definition does not work: What is the definition of a HUMAN BODY? What about a Fish, Bird or Animal Body? Is it not that it has FLESH.

I believe that dictionary.com lists the body of an automobile as one of its definitions. Is that body made of flesh?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (toby @ Feb. 18 2012,03:45)

Mikeboll, 'Parameter' are values that go towards calculating the characteristics of something.

pa·ram·e·ter
   [puh-ram-i-ter]
noun
1. Mathematics .
a.
a constant or variable term in a function that determines the specific form of the function but not its general nature, as a  in f ( x ) = ax,  where a  determines only the slope of the line described by f ( x ).

b.
one of the independent variables in a set of parametric equations.

2. Statistics . a variable entering into the mathematical form of any distribution such that the possible values of the variable correspond to different distributions.

3. Computers . a variable that must be given a specific value during the execution of a program or of a procedure within a program.

4. Usually, parameters. limits or boundaries; guidelines: the basic parameters of our foreign policy.

5. characteristic or factor; aspect; element: a useful parameter for judging long-term success.

Usage note
4, 5.  Some object strongly to the use of parameter  in these newer senses. Nevertheless, the criticized uses are now well established both in educated speech and in edited writing.

I see you are one of those mentioned in that last part.  So why don't you tell me which word YOU would use to describe what distinguishes God from all the things that are not God.  For example, what determines the Being of God from the angel standing next to Him?  Or the Being of God from the sun, etc.  

Quote (toby @ Feb. 18 2012,03:45)

Mikeboll, I wouldn't want you to leave with a false understanding of what you have been saying for 870+ pages.  That would be remiss of me – I'm sure you would agree.

You mean you wouldn't want to leave me AND EVERY OTHER PERSON WHO HAS CONTRIBUTED TO THIS THREAD with OUR false understandings?  Face it Toby, you stand alone on this one.  

And once again, I don't really care that you stand alone in disagreement with the rest of us.  It is your choice.

Toby, Paul surely wasn't anxious to receive a body like the one Jesus now has if Jesus no longer even has a body.  Paul surely wouldn't have told us that God would not leave us naked in heaven if He will.  What do you think that even means, Toby?  What do you think “earthly tent” and “heavenly tent” mean in 2 Cor 5?

You are right about one thing:  Gene HAS agreed with me since the beginning of this thread.  He and I agree that angels have bodies.  Someone just needs to tell this to Gene.  

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike………Your BS is so obvious to any one that has a half a brain. Parameters, are simply the distance (AROUND) a specific object of some kind , it has nothing to do with that object at all but is just a Mathematical measurement only. It can be of water or force effect of magnetize or anything that exists, But is it never speaking about the OBJECT it self Just is effect in space only. Spirit do have effects that can be measures as influences, However that has nothing to do with there composition as a Body of any kind. That is just your imagination and forcing of definition to try to desperately find something that can support you false assumptions that spirit have bodies, it simply is not true.

I do agree the Angels have Bodies but they are not “SPIRIT BODIES” becasue Spirit have NO BODIES no more then EMF has a BODY even though there effects can be measured and even seen. Jesus described Spirit like the Wind , you can't see it, why? becasue it has no body, but you can see its effects, Like the leaves on a tree when the wind blows through , so it is with Spirit it is a Force which drives our (INTELLECTS) is is there but can not be see, except by it effect it has on us and all creation that has life (IN) it> There is no outer parameter of a Spirit it has no limits and can not be contained it is a force that gives us Cognate Thought or simply our (INTELLECTS) it has no limits or boundaries like a BODY DOES> It is what is (IN) BODIES , it just that simple Mike all you ran-ten and raving proves nothing but confuse yourself Pierre and others. IMO

peace and love……………………………………………..gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 18 2012,09:17)

Mike………Your BS is so obvious to any one that has a half a brain. Parameters, are simply the distance (AROUND) a specific object of some kind

It is Toby who disagrees with this, Gene.  It is ME who is telling him what you just told me. And YOU agree with ME at the same time YOU call MY words “BS”.    You really don't even have a clue what you're talking about most of the time, do you Gene?  It's like when you see the name mikeboll64, you can't help but to jump into the conversation, trying your best to DISAGREE with anything I said.  Yet many times, you aren't even sharp enough to know that you are actually AGREEING with me.  

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 18 2012,09:17)

I do agree the Angels have Bodies……..

Case in point.  Because that is the ONLY question this thread set out to answer, Gene – and YOU agree with ME about it.  I'm glad we are in agreement on the SOLE question of this thread.  Thank you.  

[terraricca]

Quote (toby @ Feb. 18 2012,16:39)

Huh? Terraricca, I thought the idea was to show how a Spirit has a body in the spirit realm? Are you saying that you cannot do this?

toby

well were are you ??

[toby]

Hi Mikeboll. I think you missed this – Definition of Body:

Quote

Noun: The physical structure of a person or an animal, including the bones, flesh, and organs. Synonyms: corpse – flesh – trunk – carcass.

How do you then say that Jesus did not 'say' (Mean by what he said) that a Spirit did not have a body.  You mean he didn't use the Exact Word 'Body' but the Definition of such.  Is this your proof.

Mikeboll, saying 100 things wrong does not make them right by that repetition.  You have published your '100' things all in error of your understanding and that is why you posted '100' things – because each time you realise you are wrong you post another attempt, and another and another… And now you have no where else to go you are only making claims as to having shown proof and trying to wriggle out by saying you wish only to disagree!

Well, please disagree –  when you do disagree in the manner you purport then there is no need to respond.

You use an extract definition as if I was the one who used it.  The extract has nothing to do with the discussion.  What has 'Body of water' or 'Body of a car' got to do with defining 'Body' in terms of Flesh and Blood and Bone, Angels, Spirits, Animals, Jesus and God?
Let me tell you?  'Body of water' and 'Body of a car' relate to  Material Matter existing in the Physical Realm.

Mikeboll, did the definition, did Any definition, include reference to 'Spirit (Being)' – except to say 'As opposed to Spirit'?

No wonder you would not post any definition of 'Body' all these times you were asked to.  And Terraricca ran away

[toby]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 18 2012,23:58)

So, is your MISQUOTED version of Luke 24:39 all you have?

Mikeboll, I see you cannot prove anything by your response because even the very definition of the word 'Spirit' says 'Without Body.
Incorporeal.
As opposed to Body.
Without material form or shape.'

I have no problem posting definitions of what is known and agreed as terms.  Can you?

So you agree with Gene that Angels have bodies made of Spirit and God made Spirits to go in them.  You mean to say that even you cannot understand the verse : 'God makes his Angels Spirits and his ministers a flame of fire'?

This is amazing. So then:

God makes Angels.
God puts Spirits into the Angels.

God makes Ministers.
God puts a flame of fire in the ministers.

God makes a flesh Body (For the human being).
God puts a spirit in the Body (to make a living human Being).

So Mikeboll,
A Spirit is in an Angel
and a Flame of Fire is in a Minister
and a human being is in a body.

Is that how you see things.  

Mikeboll, does the Spirit that God put into the Angel have a body?
Remember that you agree with Gene that a Spirit does not have a body but it is 'What is in a Body.'
See, Mikeboll, you are no further forward, are you.  Does the Spirit that is in the Angel have a body?

Remember, please, the question is  'Does a Spirit have a body?'
The question is NOT  'Is a Spirit 'In a Body?'

[toby]

Mikeboll, you said:

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 19 2012,00:00)

Does it embarrass YOU that your “final word source” doesn't even list “body of water” in their definitions – despite the fact it is one of the real definitions of “body”?

Mikeboll, it is clear that you are embarrassed.  Why don't you post proofs instead of 'turning things round'.  
You claim that you have proofs (100 in fact) but yet you cannot post a single one of them that actually has direct relevance in answering the topic question.

Let me remind you again: 'Does a Spirit have a Body? What about God?'

Mikeboll, Symbolism is Not Proof.  
You can symbolise a man travelling through space in a jet pack or other contraption of a personal nature – but can that happen in reality?  No… The jet pack symbolises what would later be a Spaceship (not a personal flight pack).  
You can symbolise a man flying through the air with flapping wings of a bird but can that happen it reality?  No?  The 'Wings' simply symbolise 'lifted up and moved by some means'.  
Similarly, no Angel that came into the Physical realm was said to have had Wings.  
Why, then, Jesus would be many things:  why did you only mention Angels with Wings when there are clear descriptions of Jesus as a man with a double-edged sword as a tongue – AND – as a Lamb as if slaughtered – AND – as a (giant) Angel.  
Is Jesus an actual Angel, I though he is a Man?  
Does Jesus have an actual double-edged sword Tongue?  I think the Disciples would have noticed.  
Is Jesus an actual slaughtered Lamb?  Jesus is also a 'Rock' that followed the Israelites in the wilderness.  
Is Jesus an actual hard stone, granite, marble, … Rock?  Jesus is a man in Human form with a Flesh and Bone body?  
How is he then an Angel, a Rock, a Lamb, a son of man with white hair and eyes of flaming fire and a tongue of a sword and brass feet'

Is Jesus actually all of these? Or are they Symbolic references of aspects of him?

[mikeboll64]

Toby,

I didn't care for your long-winded nonsense posts when you came here as JA. I didn't care for them when you came as Istari. And I don't care for them now that you're Toby.

Gene will gladly tell you that you have the free will to disagree with the rest of us on this topic.

Let me know when you can explain why Paul wanted his body to be transformed into a body like the one Jesus now has, okay?

[Author]

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