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Quote (toby @ Feb. 08 2012,01:06) Hi Terraricca. The word 'Spiritual' is more often used in context of Earthly Beings. Its meaning is similar to, but not exactly 'Supernatural'.
So, 'Spiritual Love' does not mean 'Spirits having sex with each other' but 'People… Caring in a Godly way (love) but not a physical care but a mindful care': if a man said they had 'Spiritual Love' for you – would you run a mile from them (I'm presuming…!!!) or would you engage with them in a 'Spiritual Embrace' (return the 'Spiritual Love').
The term 'Spiritual Forces' does not mean 'Spirit Forces' nor 'Spirits using force' but 'Supernatural Forces' as opposed to 'Natural Forces' – forces of the mind and spirit (small 's').
Paul is talking concerning mankind's struggle with his 'Spiritual Life' – the struggle, not with the carnal flesh, but with thoughts towards Godly things, the mind acting in 'Spiritual ways' to accomplish 'Spiritual enlightenment'. When the Mind has attained that enlightenment then the desires of flesh are tamed.This is what is referred to as:
– 'Putting off the old man and putting on the new man'.
– Dying in the flesh but living in the spirit.
– Being 'Not of the earth'
A 'Spiritual State' achievable by a pre-Dead-and-Resurrected man.
Terraricca, note that the verse states 'Spiritual Forces of wickedness (Or Darkness) in Heavenly places'.
This means 'Bad thoughts emanating from evil Spirits such as Satan and other Angels that infiltrate our minds and thoughts.My point to Mikeboll is that these 'Spiritual forces' are not unique to Angels – the point is must – it is an irrelevance. I don't see what point is trying to made, except trying to force the term 'Spiritual Bodies' to mean 'Spirits with Bodies'.
See, try 'Spiritual Minds': 'Spirits with Minds'…?
What about 'Spiritual House': 'Spirit Houses'…I asked for some sentences to be produced using the word 'Spiritual' as pertains Spirit Beings in the spirit realm and the only thing which could be produced was 'Spirits manifesting bodies in the physical world' (or words to that effect).
Is that a valid example?
Yet I produced loads of them from the Human perspective (Did you notice as you read what I wrote above?).Terraricca, 'Spirit' is defined as 'Immaterial, incorporeal, bodiless, without shape or form'.
How do you then insist that it must have material, be corporeal, have a body and be with Shape and Form?
('shape and form' here mean the same thing – not 'Form' as in 'Flesh' or 'Spirit').Terraricca, why don't you answer questions instead of just posting scathing remarks to others – thank you.
TobyWhy do you answer me on the word spiritual ?you have not done any teaching ,this is known material
But if you could have answered the definition of SPIRITUAL BODY,there may be I can learn some thing,
I have a question :do jelly fish have a flesh body ?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 07 2012,10:06) Gene, What does your pride think about Jodi Lee coming around to the obvious truth of the matter?
Mike……..another wrong assumption about Jodi Lee, God back and reread Here post to you on , 03:23, and while you are there read Marlin1 , 16:35 neither Jodi nor I nor Marlin1 .Mike Jodi Lee know full well Spirit are not Bodies and He never acknowledge they were or are, from what i have read. I thing you are desperately grabbing for straws to save YOU OWN PRIDE. IMO
peace and love…………………………………….gene
Quote (toby @ Feb. 06 2012,20:23) Hi Mikeboll.
Sorry, but exactly what is your point again?
Are you trying to prove that Spirits have bodies by hanging off the word 'Spiritual'?
Is that all of the 480 pages of attempts at a proof come down to?
I have made more points in these 480 pages than you could even come close to addressing.And the proof of that is the fact that I just made ONE point to you, using the words of Barnes, and you cannot even address that one single point.
Quote (toby @ Feb. 07 2012,01:06) My point to Mikeboll is that these 'Spiritual forces' are not unique to Angels………….
And who says they have to be unique to angels?
Take the phrase “spiritual strength”. Now, that phrase could refer to the strength a human being gains through an answered prayer.
Or, it could refer to the strength of the spirit being that slayed 185,000 Assyrians in one night.
The point is that the word “spiritual” SOMETIMES does refer to something BELONGING TO A SPIRIT BEING.
And the fact that “spiritual wickedness” in Eph 6 is “in the heavenly realms” shows that it is the wickedness BELONGING TO certain spirit beings.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 07 2012,08:52) Mike……..another wrong assumption about Jodi Lee………..
Wrong Gene. Her exact words and the link to the discussion are right there on the previous page.She, like you, used to think there were no such things as “spirit beings”, because that exact phrase is not used in scripture. She does not think that any more, according to her own words that I posted for you.
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 07 2012,18:24) I have a question :do jelly fish have a flesh body ?
Hi Terrarica.Yes, It is a Fish and it has flesh. Fish is one of the things mentioned by Apostle Paul as as being a kind of flesh.
Sorry to ask, but, what does a Jellyfish have to do with being spiritual – or even a Spirit having a body?Hi Mikeboll. Like I said, it seems the only summary point you can bring to this topic is the word spiritual, which even that you cannot string one credible sentence together to prove your point – a point I may add, that doesn't prove that Spirits have bodies. Mikeboll, apostle Paul was talking concerning how the dead bodies of human beings were raised up. How do you go from dead bodies of human beings, to bodies of spirit beings in heaven, simply by the word spiritual? Mikeboll, it seems that you are just grasping at straws on this topic. The thread topic is concerning whether spirit beings in heaven have bodies, not an exercise in linguistic gymnastics. You speak of more posts than anyone else, yet your summary proof is in relation to aspects of spirituality? I asked you to present a few sentences using the word spiritual as regards Spirits in heaven, and so far you cannot. Yet even without thinking, I produce many: spiritual food, spiritual hunger, spiritual thirst, spiritual growth, spiritual family, spiritual church. Mikeboll, you yourself even said that we should confine our posts to God, Jesus and Angels/Spirits in heaven. Perhaps the discussion needs to be confined as you suggest, as it is clear that Demon Spirits who are not in heaven do not have bodies – which is what Gene is saying. You must by now understand what Gene is saying, and that he cannot and never has done, as far as I can see here, acknowledged heavenly spirits. Your pursuit of him is therefore pointless. Have you not heard of the story of the wind, the sun and the man with a coat?
Quote (toby @ Feb. 08 2012,13:29) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 07 2012,18:24) I have a question :do jelly fish have a flesh body ?
Hi Terrarica.Yes, It is a Fish and it has flesh. Fish is one of the things mentioned by Apostle Paul as as being a kind of flesh.
Sorry to ask, but, what does a Jellyfish have to do with being spiritual – or even a Spirit having a body?
tobythere are many different flesh ,and I am sure if you would be in the water you would not see the jelly fish coming before it is to late ,you rather would see a shark better ,because his color and is form,a jelly fish is transparent and being in his element he is difficult to see at the least to a inexpert eye
this is my analogy to the living beings in all creation of our God and father.
Pierre
Quote (toby @ Feb. 07 2012,18:00) Hi Mikeboll. Like I said…………………………………………………………………………..
…
So you can't bring yourself to acknowledge what Thayer, Strong, NETNotes and most of us here already know, huh?
Toby, one of the definitions of “spiritual” is “belonging to a spirit being”. You don't have to like it, but refusing to acknowledge it makes you look like Gene refusing to acknowledge that the word “spirit” in Luke 24:37 means “spirit being”.
Hi Mike,
So it is true then that you cannot move past the only word you know – spiritual?
I see you added the word Being in your quote – why, Mike?Quoting what another person thinks is no more proof of anything than your own thoughts.
Barnes is only a man! – not a God – but he seems to be your God along with NetBible.
Are there not others who say their piece in NetBible – do they agree with you?
On what?
So, you can use a reference article to try to prove your point (which still failed!)…
but refuse to say what the definition of Body is.
Remember that in order to agree we must first be talking of the same thing.Body of a spirit… What is a body?
So far you cannot define it as the universally agreed dictionary definition absolutely disagrees with you.
Even making up your own definition does not do it as it makes no sense.
Your definition has a Spirit Body being made of Spirit.
So then what is the Spirit that the spirit body is made of?
And, if the spirit body is made of spirit – what is the spirit that is in…the spirit body of the spirit?Mike have you heard of the word 'Recursion'?
Quote (toby @ Feb. 08 2012,18:02) Hi Mike, So it is true then that you cannot move past the only word you know – spiritual?
I see you added the word Being in your quote – why, Mike?Quoting what another person thinks is no more proof of anything than your own thoughts.
Barnes is only a man! – not a God – but he seems to be your God along with NetBible.
Are there not others who say their piece in NetBible – do they agree with you?
On what?
So, you can use a reference article to try to prove your point (which still failed!)…
but refuse to say what the definition of Body is.
Remember that in order to agree we must first be talking of the same thing.Body of a spirit… What is a body?
So far you cannot define it as the universally agreed dictionary definition absolutely disagrees with you.
Even making up your own definition does not do it as it makes no sense.
Your definition has a Spirit Body being made of Spirit.
So then what is the Spirit that the spirit body is made of?
And, if the spirit body is made of spirit – what is the spirit that is in…the spirit body of the spirit?Mike have you heard of the word 'Recursion'?
Toby………….This is absolutely right Mike has not one leg to stand on< He simply forces the text to say or imply things the text is not saying he does this with other issues also.Like becasue they “THOUGHT the SAW a GHOST or Spirit , that means there really does exit Spirit “BEINGS”. Like that is some kind of affirmation of truth, That would be like me saying I “thought” I saw a Flying Saucer and therefore there really is a Flying Saucer. So Mike would defend any who “THOUGHT” they saw something as if that something really existed and use that for his so-called Proof it did exist.
I mean this guy does not give up no matter how wrong he is it appears. IMO
But what does scripture say “PRIDE GOES BEFORE a FALL”. The sad part here is the clarification of What Spirit really is could open up so many scriptures for people and take away a lot of the MYSTERY TEACHINGS that people have fallen into becasue of all the false concepts of what Spirits are. But when people want to hang on to there Metaphysical beliefs they produce all kinds of false teaching about spirits, just like the Greeks Plato and Aristotle did which eventually found there way into Christianity.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 08 2012,23:29) Quote (toby @ Feb. 08 2012,18:02) Hi Mike, So it is true then that you cannot move past the only word you know – spiritual?
I see you added the word Being in your quote – why, Mike?Quoting what another person thinks is no more proof of anything than your own thoughts.
Barnes is only a man! – not a God – but he seems to be your God along with NetBible.
Are there not others who say their piece in NetBible – do they agree with you?
On what?
So, you can use a reference article to try to prove your point (which still failed!)…
but refuse to say what the definition of Body is.
Remember that in order to agree we must first be talking of the same thing.Body of a spirit… What is a body?
So far you cannot define it as the universally agreed dictionary definition absolutely disagrees with you.
Even making up your own definition does not do it as it makes no sense.
Your definition has a Spirit Body being made of Spirit.
So then what is the Spirit that the spirit body is made of?
And, if the spirit body is made of spirit – what is the spirit that is in…the spirit body of the spirit?Mike have you heard of the word 'Recursion'?
Toby………….This is absolutely right Mike has not one leg to stand on< He simply forces the text to say or imply things the text is not saying he does this with other issues also.Like becasue they “THOUGHT the SAW a GHOST or Spirit , that means there really does exit Spirit “BEINGS”. Like that is some kind of affirmation of truth, That would be like me saying I “thought” I saw a Flying Saucer and therefore there really is a Flying Saucer. So Mike would defend any who “THOUGHT” they saw something as if that something really existed and use that for his so-called Proof it did exist.
I mean this guy does not give up no matter how wrong he is it appears. IMO
But what does scripture say “PRIDE GOES BEFORE a FALL”. The sad part here is the clarification of What Spirit really is could open up so many scriptures for people and take away a lot of the MYSTERY TEACHINGS that people have fallen into becasue of all the false concepts of what Spirits are. But when people want to hang on to there Metaphysical beliefs they produce all kinds of false teaching about spirits, just like the Greeks Plato and Aristotle did which eventually found there way into Christianity.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Hi Gene.The spirit of truth is a spirit; but God could give him a body if he desires, like the shape of a dove.
The spirit of love is a spirit,with no body.
The spirit of the wicked,is a spirit, with no body.The angels are spirit creatures,with a spirit body.
satan is a spirit creature.
We are made in the image of God, so God has a body.We are given a face ,a body,arms and legs,just like God.
wakeup.
What is the difference in these two scriptures?
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
And
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Does “image” in these two scriptures mean the same?
Georg
Hi Gene.
It is certainly true that the disciples 'thought' they were seeing a Spirit – but were wrong.
Jesus Christ told them so and proved it to them.
If someone is trying to say otherwise, then it may be wise to be cautious how you dialogue with them, as they are clearly speaking directly against the words of Jesus Christ.
However, it was not (uncommon) in those days for individuals to see or perceive Spirits that had manifested themselves in the physical world.
I am not going to argue over whether those Spirits were Beings or whatever, just that I am going with what is written in the book that we are all reading from – which says that Spirits (MESSENGING Angels of God) were seen and interacted with humans – of which there are plenty of examples.
Perhaps you could encourage Mike to move on to discuss other things to do with 'Spirits with Bodies?' other than whether a Spirit is a Being or not – or perhaps neither of you have much else to say!!
I agree with your summation concerning a Demon Spirits not having a body, as this is patently obvious from the events outlined by the mad man and the swines.
Also, no one has every seen a Demon Spirit – all interactions have been concerning the mind and spirit of a human being.
Fallen Angels (as Demon Spirits are) are not allowed to manifest a body of their own so can only invade the body of another living Being – and that ONLY by the person inviting them in by evil thinking.
This applies to 'good' Spirits as well: consider the words of Jesus:“Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if any one hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.
He who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I myself conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”Even Jesus 'waits' for a person to 'open his Spiritual Door' and allow Jesus in.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 08 2012,06:29) Like becasue they “THOUGHT the SAW a GHOST or Spirit , that means there really does exit Spirit “BEINGS”.
Gene,The Luke 24:37 point was never even about whether or not spirit beings exist. It was about the word “spirit” MEANING “spirit being” in that verse.
When will you admit that it does?
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 08 2012,07:18) The angels are spirit creatures,with a spirit body.
satan is a spirit creature.
We are made in the image of God, so God has a body.We are given a face ,a body,arms and legs,just like God.
I agree wholeheartedly, Wakeup.Hi Wakeup. God is Spirit, and man was made in Gods Spirit image, not Body – God doesn't have a Body. Our Body is a type of a Disibility/Handicap we have – so that we can never BE God (Perhaps??).
By image, we have the ability to feels emotions and love, we also are intelligent – more than the animals – such as that Man can put himself in the temple of God and make himself out to be God. We also can create as in be creative, similar to God was in creating the World. (Example man has created his own virtual world inside the Internet hasn't he).
So think spiritually Wakeup, always think Spiritually. What is good is in the heart and is always in love. Negative things such as anger are from the enemy. Every GOOD thing is from above.
From Nick Hassan, in the “Is Jesus Still a Man?” thread:
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 07 2012,22:41) Hi Jodi,
Yes he is a man.
But not a man of flesh.
Flesh cannot enter the kingdom.His flesh did not corrupt but if we follow him and we receive a new heavenly body then does he not have one?
Quote (Pastry @ Feb. 09 2012,12:55) What is the difference in these two scriptures? Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
And
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Does “image” in these two scriptures mean the same?
Georg
georgGe 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
here it says OUR why is that ?
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