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Quote (Istari @ May 16 2011,02:53) Mike, I am surprised that you ask me that question – were you testing me – or did you think I could not answer – would not answer – why DID you ask it?
This is the question I want answered Istari. You know, the one you've avoided like the plague since this discussion started?Istari, we both KNOW that Jesus and his God are TWO SEPARATE BEINGS. What is it that keeps them “constrained” as TWO SEPARATE BEINGS so that they don't “meld” into ONE SINGLE BEING?
Quote (Wispring @ May 15 2011,22:58)
They have “identities”. Therefore they can differentiate between themselves because they each have an individual identity.
Hi Wispring,It doesn't really matter what you call it. If a being has an “individual identity”, then that is something that separates that particular being from all other beings, right? So call it an “identity”, or an “outer membrane”, or a “constraining boundary” or whatever. It still adds up to a BODY.
As I've said before, even a cloud in the sky has a body that separates what IS the cloud from what IS NOT the cloud. A “body” doesn't have to be something a human being can touch, see…………..or even understand.
Quote (Wispring @ May 15 2011,22:58)
In this theory they could have a type of non-physical body simply because they are composed of spiritual energy that is unique to each individual spirit.
Then each would have his own unique spiritual body, right?Let's step it up a notch. Do you believe like Istari, that spirits are “everywhere all the time”?
mike
Quote (shimmer @ May 16 2011,00:42) Mike, you need to expand your mind, look around, google some, your limiting your mind to just heavennet, just 3 people's agreement with you. Istari was right all along with this.
Hi Shimmer,Does it really matter how many people think spirits DON'T have bodies? There are MANY more Christians out there that believe in the Trinity (and MANY, MANY more scholars out there that have fancy words and explanations to defend it), than there are those who believe the scriptural teaching that Jesus is not the God he is the Son of. Does that make theTrinitarians right because there are more of them?
Now listen very carefully: Phil 2:6 says that Jesus was existing in the FORM OF GOD. So God apparently DOES have a form, for scripture says so.
Moses asked to see God, and God told him he couldn't see His face and live, but allowed him to see His back as He passed by. A being without form has neither a face nor a back.
NEVER is it said in ANY scripture that God doesn't have a form. So when you're quoting people who claim to know that He doesn't, you are quoting people who are either ignoring Phil 2 and Exodus 33, or have blown those scriptures off as “analogies”, like Istari does with the Book of Job.
I will also point out 1 Cor 15:48 once again. You seem to agree with Istari that Paul is talking about people who WILL EVENTUALLY BE of heaven. But Paul clearly says that God gives a body to EACH seed as He pleases. (Don't take “seed” literally.) He goes on to tell us earthly bodies are different than heavenly bodies. And then he says that as Jesus IS, so ARE ARE ARE those of heaven.
See? He doesn't say WILL BE, but ARE. So who ARE these people of heaven who have a body like Jesus now has? And why in the world would anyone think the one God placed as Ruler of heaven and earth would be the ONLY one existing in heaven within the “constraints” of a body, while those who serve him are more free and unconstrained than their Ruler is?
Shimmer, I'll finish up with a reference to the first topic I ever started here – the “As a Child” one………..remember? I will accept it as a child. I will continue to picture angels with beautiful winged bodies, just as the SCRIPTURES describe them. Why do you think God would have instructed Moses to put Cherubim with outstretched wings over the ark of the covenant? This is the place where He Himself resided from time to time in a thick gloom. And it was He who insisted the Cherubim be there. If God was only instilling a fairy tale for small minded children by designing the ark with winged Cherubim, then that's the fairy tale I'll believe. I will take God's fairy tale over Istari's “intelligence” every single day of my life. I will take the words of the scriptures over “the world according to JA” every day of my life.
I'm sorry that some of you think yourselves to intelligent to believe in God's “fairy tales” about angels with wings. But I will accept His fairy tales like a child. SPREAD YOUR BEAUTIFUL WINGS AND FLY ON, O POWERFUL ANGELS OF GOD!
peace to you,
mikeQuote (Istari @ May 17 2011,03:59) Poor you, Irene. You will carry your delusion with you forever. The reason you don't 'goggle' (sic) is because you HAVE DONE IT – and found you were WRONG.
So, to maintain your 'wrongness' you make out that you don't need to check – ha! Irene, you make yourself into a God, then!!'No Interpretation is given to one person'.
And you are deadly wrong about what you know to be false.
You refuse to acknowledge 'Spiritual Body' because of your vehemence previously has you wrapped up now – and you are embarrassed to climb down – sad.
Oh, and please – Irene, AGE does not mean SAFETY AND SECURITY so don't think that because you are aged by comparison it means God is anymore or less compassionate on deceit – yes Irene, deceit – for you KNOW YOU ARE WRONG!!
God has compassion on those who are gracefully WRONG – yes, but your wrongness is from full knowledge of your wrongness with no regard to righteous truth.
So, it is not to me that you should care what you believe!
Today, I checked the Internet – and – only ONE WEBSITE (the Mormon one as Shimmer mentioned) has a SINGLE RENDERING of 'Spirit Body' (Which is what you are saying).
Every other website states that the SPIRITUAL BODY is the sown body, the body of the dead raised up – JUST AS PAUL SAYS.
Align that with other Scriptures that speak of the raising of the bodies of the dead (The seas give up their dead…etc)
What other DEAD are there – the Spirit? No, Irene, the body. The Spirit that animates the body and gives it purpose goes back to God – so how is the SPIRIT raised up…Ok, not the Spirit, then. So why is their a SPIRIT BODY when the SPIRIT ALREADY EXISTS?
Irene, all you do is as Terraricca does – you post the same verse over and over and have no idea WHY? you refuse to examine it because you KNOW IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.
All three of you are One: Mikeboll, Irene, Terraricca! One almighty God of self delusion.
Praise God that we know why you are like this – Scriptures tells us this was to happen and it has right here in this forum!
JA……….Very true observation. Sad but true. IMOpeace and love to you and yours…………………gene
Mike, do I have this right? Please correct me if I don't:
1) You, once, here on this forum, believed, and agreed with two others, that God had a body like us (eyes, arms, so on),
2) And then, Jesus, was risen in spirit (only),
You seem to have had it back to front.
God is spirit, Jesus is body (form), scripture.Make this clear, I'm not accusing you of once believing #1, im asking.
Quote I will also point out 1 Cor 15:48 once again. You seem to agree with Istari that Paul is talking about people who WILL EVENTUALLY BE of heaven. Of course he is. He is talking about the ressurection.
Quote But Paul clearly says that God gives a body to EACH seed as He pleases. (Don't take “seed” literally.) He goes on to tell us earthly bodies are different than heavenly bodies. And then he says that as Jesus IS, so ARE ARE ARE those of heaven.
See? He doesn't say WILL BE, but ARE. So who ARE these people of heaven who have a body like Jesus now has?There is no ARE in the Greek.
Greek
As those earthly so also those earthly also as those Heavenly so also those Heavenly
(That could mean will be),οἷος 3634 as
ὁ 3588 those
χοϊκός 5517 earthy
τοιοῦτοι 5108 so
καὶ 2532 also
οἱ 3588 those
χοϊκοί 5517 earthy
καὶ 2532 also
οἷος 3634 as
ὁ 3588 those
ἐπουράνιος 2032 Heavenly
τοιοῦτοι 5108 so
καὶ 2532 also
οἱ 3588 those
ἐπουράνιοι 2032 Heavenlyhttp://biblos.com/1_corinthians/15-48.htm
Quote So when you're quoting people who claim to know that He doesn't, you are quoting people who are either ignoring Phil 2 and Exodus 33, or have blown those scriptures off as “analogies”, like Istari does with the Book of Job. Mike, Judaism and the majority of Christianity is quite a huge ammount of people.
Quote Shimmer, I'll finish up with a reference to the first topic I ever started here – the “As a Child” one………..remember? I will accept it as a child. I will continue to picture angels with beautiful winged bodies, just as the SCRIPTURES describe them. Why do you think God would have instructed Moses to put Cherubim with outstretched wings over the ark of the covenant? This is the place where He Himself resided from time to time in a thick gloom. And it was He who insisted the Cherubim be there. If God was only instilling a fairy tale for small minded children by designing the ark with winged Cherubim, then that's the fairy tale I'll believe. I'm sorry that some of you think yourselves to intelligent to believe in God's “fairy tales” about angels with wings. But I will accept His fairy tales like a child. SPREAD YOUR BEAUTIFUL WINGS AND FLY ON, O POWERFUL ANGELS OF GOD!
Fair enough.
Hi Mike,
Quote Let's step it up a notch. Do you believe like Istari, that spirits are “everywhere all the time”?
No.
To me it's all theory and speculation. I have a logical theory for both possibilites I will wait on the truth of this matter when and if God, Jesus, or the Spirit of Truth reveals it to me in this life or the next. Also a long time ago in this thread I put forth an even longer more intricate theory based on logic and reason for the bodies side of the argument. For the bodiless side I simply thought about it in a psychological framework. I can even understand Istari's logic in a scientific framework, although, he may not like this thought. I don't really care if he likes it or not. I do believe God's presence is virtually everywhere in all of reality and that those with a mind that can deny the existance of God in there own personal reality are shutting the door to God and living in darkness simply because God gave everyone the ability to do that. For now I lean to the same side you believe Mike. However, both work for me mentally/logically. I have never been to heaven above to actually experience this aspect of reality. I hope you can understand the truth of what I am communicating here.With Love and Respect,
WispringMike,
Your first question (You are an impossible person) is written loud and clear by the church fathers in the posts that Shimmer made.If you can't understand nor believe what these eminent fathers wrote (And none wrote counter to this as NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ISSUE EXCEPT you three kings) then it is pointless to try to make you understand.
It is clear that FAITH is not a word you understand – GREEK you certainly are – not even THOMAS, is your name, for even Thomas believed.
The body Jesus was RAISED IN was the same body he died in – and that body is the Glorious body he has now when in the flesh which he puts off when he enter heaven where he is pure Spirit.
The body cannot enter heaven – for what reason – what reason could a flesh material body do in the immaterial world… Mike, your desire for the impossible (Which you attain – impossible nonsense ideas) has driven you to just post nonsense things in an attempt to frustrate.
It is clear that NO MATTER WHAT ANSWER ANYONE GIVES YOU – if it doesn't say what you want it to say then that counts as NO ANSWER to you.
Throughout the whole forum this cry has been raised against you. Have you not learnt yet that that is your defence when you get things wrong – you ACCUSE. Others and then post an impossibly nonsense question trying to recover your 'dignity'!
The answer has been given by me
– you have read it
– you have ignored it
– other have posted unified answers to mine you ignore themAnd you still say 'You haven't answered me'
Therefore NO ANSWER SHALL BE FURTHER GIVEN YOU for that question.
It has been answered, reAnswered and further embellished from the church father posts showing what I stated was true – I did not read what the church fathers said until Shimmer posted the quotes because I had no idea others wrote about this matter – so seeing that what THEY WROTE is completely in line with what I have been saying to you — even down to DIMENSIONS — how then can you still not only refuse to believe but also still ACCUSE that no answer is given you?A mad man was angry with a strong man because the strong man exposed him as a fraud (or whatever!)
The mad man tried to attack the strong man but the strong man beat off the mad man's attack.
The mad man again attacked and again the strong man beat him off.
The mad man knowing he could not physically beat the strong man decided to get the strong man arrested and detained.
He provoked the strong man out of the sight of others so when the strong man retaliated in public the mad man allowed himself to be shown to be beaten up so it looked like an unprovoked attack.
He got his reward – the strongman was arrested and jailed for several weeks.The strong man was released early so the mad man was even more incensed and launched further attacks on the strong man but the strong man beat him up again.
Three times attacked – three times beaten back. The mad man – being a mad man – never learns (I guess that's why he's a mad man!)So now, the mad man, when he is beaten, to Regain his DIGNITY, he taunts the strong man, even as he is beaten to a pulp, says, 'That didn't hurt! Your punches are weak' ('You didn't answer my question – hit me again!)
So the strong man 'hits' him again and others hit him but as Nevis lying (!!!) there spewing puss from his wounds he still manages to mumble out the side of his twisted mouth, 'Zat digent hurz – hiz me again…'!Yes, this is the taunt that is designed to get the strong man arrested again.
What should the strong man do? – nothing but walk away.Shimmer,
Mike hates to lose. Unfortunately his affliction is just that – a loser!
And he sure has LOST it in this forum.But dont believe he isn't learning – he just doesn't like to let anyone know that he was TAUGHT anything from someone better… (This is not a boast – if a Child refuses to believe his Schoolmaster in the class, is it wrong to say that child refused to learn from someone better?)
Mike admits that it is only two (Three?) years he has been studying Scriptures yet he acts as though it was all his life… He came with the idea of trying to WIN arguments – not to learn of REAL S riptural matters.
Mike is a DEBATOR… debates are about WINNING – not LEARNING.
That's why Mike does not SHOW or ADMIT that he is wrong – No DEBATOR will ever ADMIT HIS GUILT but does what he does in private!
When Mike is stuck of a ledge of righteous post he get a giant cleaver and chops it off.
How is he LEARNING if he tries to destroy the righteous post – this is ANTI-CHRIST behaviour.
But Mike is smart – he pockets the shards of the post later and uses them for himself.
Shimmer, you are a compiler and have rightly compiled Mikes posts to show that he changes his views SUBTERRANEOUSLY over time after vilifying the original poster – I too have mentioned this about him.
He also copies the BAD WAYS of his opponent – in particular WJ and KJ.
I KNOW WJ's ways so I also see Mike adopting and adapting (Mike, understand what this word means?) then to himself.
These are not Christian ways.
Mike has a footer signature that displays his thought -HE WANTS TO BE GOD.
that is is point of the verse selection never mind the 'it's my favourite about God' – it's Mike favourite to HIMSELF…
mike wants to OWN the SCRIPTURES hence his pursuit of impossible question and demanding of answers – Mikes world doesn't fit into any kind of reality so he gets mad for impossible answers!Wispring,
Please explain what you mean by God's presence being 'Virtually' everywhere.
This is intriguing! How can God's presence be ONLY virtually everywhere?
'Where can I go to hide from your presence… In the depth of the earth… To the ends of the earth… To the heavens … To the planets… The roaring fire…the centre of the tornado…In the darkest place …in the brightest light….in death… In Spirit… In mind, in soul, in despair, in delight, in pleasure, in pain, in righteousness, in Sin… where can I go that I am not in your presence – that your Spirit cannot be with me – that you have no knowledge of me – where? I know not one place' (My quote from the Psalm)
I leave any expansion till you respond.
Mike,
You say that Shimmer finally answered your question. And what Is the difference between what Shimmer posted and what I have been saying to you from the beginning – nothing!So, it is only your desire to deliberately NOT understand that stops you receiving the righteous truth.
And now you appear to accept Shimmers answer – all is well!
Please do not think that you are creating a division between me and Shimmer – far from it – it us a great uniting!Mike keeps claiming that I have not answered his question.
What Mike means is 'Good post Istari – but what I want to hear is that 'You don't know''
'the reason I want to hear 'I don't know' is that it then means that 'I' win my nonsense question – so no matter what you say – even though true – I will never accept it – no matter what the Church fathers personally and collectively say – even though they completely reflect what you say – I will not accept YOUR answer because it means I lose AGAIN to you – and I can't have that – it's just too embarrassing!
So, I'll just keep lying and saying that you havent answered until you get so mad I can tile you and get you off this forum – 'I Am The God – I Have The POWER!!!''shimmer
Quote Mike, Judaism and the majority of Christianity is quite a huge ammount of people. you should see the size of the garage door that leads to destruction
and so small the door that leads to God.
Pierre
Quote (Istari @ May 18 2011,12:16) Terraricca, There is a gulf of a difference between 'Meek' and 'Stupid/Ignorant'.
Istaricarefull the devil is looking
Pierre
Quote (shimmer @ May 16 2011,23:40)
Mike, do I have this right? Please correct me if I don't:1) You, once, here on this forum, believed, and agreed with two others, that God had a body like us (eyes, arms, so on),
2) And then, Jesus, was risen in spirit (only),
You seem to have had it back to front.
God is spirit, Jesus is body (form), scripture.Make this clear, I'm not accusing you of once believing #1, im asking.
Hi Shimmer,When I started the thread, I only had an opinion that any individual being in existence would have to have some kind of “outer perimeter” that separated it from other beings.
As the thread progressed, we all delved into many scriptures, and many of us made very logical points. Kathi's point that angels are said to come from and go to places really hit home for me and provided what I think to be very logical support to my original opinion.
I was never quite sure about God, which is why I worded the thread the way I did. I felt for sure that angels had bodies, but had no clue whether or not God did.
I had always thought that Jesus was raised immediately from the dead in his new spiritual body. You directed me to Luke 24:39, and caused me to rearrange what I “knew” to be true.
Anyway, in the course of responding to you last night, I thought about the ark of the covenant and how God Himself insisted that it have angels over it, complete with wings. And I thought, “Well, why would God further instigate what was nothing more than a Hebrew fairy tale?” So only as of last night, I have decided that angels not only have bodies, but they have bodies exactly like they are descibed in scripture. I see no reason to think they don't, after realizing that it was God Himself who designed the ark. I will accept it as a child, for I am seriously tired of fighting about it.
I hope that answered your question. I couldn't quite understand what you were asking.
Quote (shimmer @ May 16 2011,23:40)
There is no ARE in the Greek.
You are correct, and I apologize for the “ARE ARE ARE” thing. I thought I had looked this up in the Greek a long time ago, and the word “are” was there. I was wrong, and you are right.I will point out that virtually every translation renders it with the word “are”, and not one that I've seen renders it “will be”. I'm barely beginning to understand some things about the Greek language, and this is a new one on me. They apparently don't put “are” and “is” in writing on certain occasions, but I don't yet know why.
Look at verse 55, where Paul asks, “Death, where is your victory? Death, where is your sting?” The word “IS” is not in the Greek either, but we know that's what he means, right?
Another quick example is Luke 17:17:
Then Jesus answered and said, “Were there not ten cleansed? But the nine–where are they?
Again, no “ARE” in the Greek, yet we know that's what Jesus is asking, right? Here's one more:Matthew 5:4
“Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.”
Once again, no “ARE” in the Greek. The same goes for Matthew 5:10, Luke 8:12, Luke 8:13, Luke 11:28, Luke 12:3, Luke 12:38, Luke 16:15, Luke 22:28, Romans 4:7, 2 Timothy 3:6, Hebrews 8:4, Revelation 19:9, and Revelation 22:14.All of these scriptures have the phrase “are those” just like 1 Cor 15:48. All of them are usually translated as “are those”, just like 1 Cor 15:48. And none of them have a Greek word for “ARE” in them, just like 1 Cor 15:48.
Like I said, I don't know the Greek rule about this yet, but I would imagine that if Paul was saying “so WILL BE those of heaven”, then Jesus was saying “blessed WILL BE those who mourn”.
I'll stand by the translators in this case, and continue to believe that Paul is speaking of those who ALREADY ARE of heaven, and not of those who WILL BE of heaven.
Shimmer, you are my friend, and I don't want to fight with you. In my forthcoming response to Wispring, I'll lay out what I believe and why, and then I'm bailing from this thread again for a while.
peace and love to you,
mikeQuote (Wispring @ May 17 2011,02:10)
Hi Mike,Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 16 2011, 20:29) Let's step it up a notch. Do you believe like Istari, that spirits are “everywhere all the time”?
No.
Hi Wispring,Neither do I. And if there is ever a place where a being IS at the same time there are places where that same being ISN'T, then something is separating where he IS from where he ISN'T.
Angels are said to “come” and “go” in scripture, and that is my basis for deciding that they aren't “everywhere all the time”.
We know from scripture that Jesus most definitely IS a spirit now. And we know from scripture that Jesus has a body now.
I understand that some think he is the only spirit with a body because he is a “man/spirit” (which is not scriptural) or a “new creation” (which is scriptural). But when these people speak of angels as being “unconstrained” and “everywhere all the time”, it makes me wonder why the one who is superior to them would be the only one with a bodily constraint. It is some of us who will rule over angels, so the same applies: Why should the rulers OF the angels be “less free” than the angels they rule over?
At any rate, we SCRIPTURALLY know of one spirit who has a body.
Lastly, I understand 1 Cor 15 to be teaching that God gave a body to EVERYTHING He created, and that the bodies of those in heaven are different than the bodies of those of earth. I understand Paul to be saying that the bodies of those who were originally created as flesh have to die in order for those people to put on the spiritual body that those of heaven were originally created with.
Wispring, when I started this thread, I didn't believe that angels really had wings and four faces, etc. I thought that to be childish. So while I “knew” in my heart that something had to be separating one from another, I considered the very clear descriptions many Bible writers have given as fairy tales. I don't know why I did that. I don't know why last night I all of a sudden thought of the ark of the covenant, and how God designed it with two winged angles on the lid.
Was that “sent to me” as an answer? I can't say for sure. What I can say is that I'm completely at peace with my childish acceptance that angels look exactly like they are described in scripture. This thread has made me learn a lot and delve into many scriptures, which is great. But it also has made me very angry at times. I'm not angry anymore, but completely at peace with my new understanding.
I'll leave the thread to you and the rest now. Thanks for your enlightening first posts on this thread. I thoroughly enjoyed them.
peace and love to you,
mikeHi Istari,
How are you doing? Well and good I hope. I misused the word “virtually”. To readers of my post please delete the word virtually and this is what I really meant to communicate. May the gospel that Christ Jesus proclaimed guide you in your life and may God the Father also be your spirtual father.With Love and Respect,
WispringWispring,
Then God is Everywhere… And God is Spirit. Yes!Spirit is everywhere – in the ethereal world of Heaven for they are not EMBODIED.
When they 'Come into' the visible physical EMBODIED world they come in the same FORM as those they come to – As a Man – in the form of a Man.
Read the description of what the person who sees the Angel says – there is Always a perception of a shimmering, pure White apparel, a burning feeling – POWER…a Fire (in one case)!
Yes, An Angel is PURE POWER – Power can be shaped for MATERIAL MATTER is SHAPED POWER!!
Why a FORM – How do you communicate with a child? You mimick what the child understands – don't show the child Adult things or talk in Adult ways but mimick the level of understanding level of the child – so to with Power knowledgeable Spirits – Appear not in Power (Flames of fire and lightening and thunder but in the shaped form of Man and speak with the voice of a man.
If you told someone that a flame of fire spoke to you – what would they say? (Who is going to so unwise as to bring up Moses' experience?)Wispring, Mike has reached the limit of his earthly understanding – he cannot attain the Spirit and therefore all his thoughts are as of the earth!
For this reason I liken him to FLATLANDER MAN.
Flatlander man is an imaginary two dimensional creatire that cannot envisage a three dimensional world so when he is told he CAN move sideways or up or down… He is scathing and implies impossibility… Then 3D man stands in front of him and then steps sideways – and, to 2D Flatlander man, 3D man has disappeared – magic!Ok, that is a 3D/2D world. In the 2/3D world bodies are what keeps things together. This is the world that God created – a Physical world – God took his Power and created Physical matter – shaped his power to make a physical world (HIS POWER – God's Power is in EVERYTHING therefore HE IS EVERYWHERE)
The BODY is the encasement of matter. The Matter of the body needs to be kept together (Do I need to say this – yes – to the foolhardy ones!)– ask Mike to define 'Body' then ask him to define 'Spirit'.
He showed a definition from his netBible but DELETED the parts that he didn't like… The parts that said that Spirit is immaterial.Mike is a part-time Jehovah's Witness and the magazines he reads has pictures of Jesus as a Spirit and God sitting on a throne and Angels flitting around 'heaven' with wings and so on.
This HUMANISED VISION of heaven has captured his imagination such that it has become a pictoral Idol which he worships.Why do Angels have WINGS! where in heaven are they flying – what are WINGS used for?
It is interesting to note that Mike is actually flitting from one thing to another and actually has NO IDEA what he is ACTUALLY saying.
Mike just wants to say that Istari is WRONG… nothing more – hence NO MATTER WHAT you show him he responds with nonsense and restates his pointless and purposeless claims that he has not been answered :'What Separates the being of Jesus from God'.
I said 'Nothing separates them for the Spirit is immaterial and therefore needs NO SEPARATION!'Mike still says he has not been answered!!
For someone to 'Answer Mikeboll' is 'to say what Mikeboll WANTS the person to say!' -only then will Mikeboll say 'You have answered'.Mike at one point is saying that Spirit must have some encasement making it a body – he almost choked thinking he asked 'If the Spirit is everywhere what restrains the Spirit' and received the reply 'God. God restrains the Spirit – for everything is in God'
On other occasions Mike uses physical appearing of Angels as proof of a body – despite what I explain to him How And Why…
Moreover then – WHY does Mikeboll64 want to redefine the Scriptural world.He with all his DICTIONARY, Greek, Hebrew, sarilic, Internet… Knowledge cannot understand what SPIRITUAL means. Like Irene, he CHANGES the term to SPIRIT BODY then launches a vehement discourse on THAT under the guise of SPiritual Body …
Where else is this false talk found: WJ – WJ uses the Term GOD as a NAME for …YHVH … ? Then claims that everything termed GOD is pertaining to Jehovah and therefore Jesus is also JEHOVAH or GOD…
this is clearly wrong because GOD is a title – not a name.
This is what Mike does with Spiritual Body – he has redefined the term even removing letters from it then repackaged it as his own term.
Go to any dictionary, search the Gospels, surf the deepest darkest corners of the Internet – find me a description of 'Spirit Body' (Ignore the Mormons – we know that is nonsense already)
No, not one single thing of Scriptural worth – Yet Mikeboll and Irene ( Nonidea what terra is on about – don't think he does either !) insist that such a thing exists – and continue to spew rudders directions on their 'proof'.Ha ha ha ha – Mike can't even understand what 'heavens' is even when told that the Sun moon and stars are in the heavens.
His cohort, Irene, says that Terrestrial bodies are Sun moon and stars…
And celestial is Angels… When Paul (and every living dictionary and every common understanding) is that they are Shining radiant objects in the heavens (Sky) Sun moon and stars.Understand their desparate error (Wispring – it stems from t8 removing tiles from me for Mikeboll illegally tiling me. Irene and Terra were incensed and began an attack against ANYTHING I said)
Now they are stuck – tarbaby style – with their misled thoughts – Mikeboll being the chief instigator but who then left them in their wilderness when he ACTUALLY realised how wrong he was.You see he has outlined how he came to change – why? Because Shimmer EXPOSED HIM.. he had to hold his hand up… See the bloodstains on them still – yes, the same Body he was BURIED in by his own errant deeds and thoughts – yes, the SAME BODY he was raised up again in to face his trial – with Shimmer as the Judge – 'Yes, your mighty one, your honour, I am Guilty' 'Yes, O God,your honour, I am Guilty'.
Now why did he not lead irene and terra back from the wilderness of wayward thoughts and deeds – because he would then have had to have admitted his guilt then – and yet he admits now but still leaves Irene and terra to their fate!Wispring, Mike is simply DESPARATE for someone to beat in a debate – hence his manner of discussion.
See his debate with Kathi fell apart after only one page despite Kathi posting clear and precise rules.
And where do we see the ubiquitous words 'You still have not answered my question' – ha ha ha – everywhere – the Spirit of Mike's plaintive cry IS everywhere…Yet, how many 'points' has Mike avoided answering? Legions!!
Mike, what is a SPIRITUAL BODY as opposed to a SPIRIT BODY?
(Ps – to make it simple : One exists and the other is a figment of your own desparate imagination)Wispring,
What is a SPIRITUAL BODY?How are the dead raised up?
Which part of 1Corin15 speaks of Angels?
Mike gets lost at first claiming that SPIRITS have bodies
Then is shown that JESUS is the ONLY ONE with a SPIRITUAL BODY
So he chokes (Oh dear – caught out again)
Irene then claims that SHE wasn't talking about Angels (Spirits) – so when I ask what of God who is also a Spirit – everything goes silent and pointless Terra chips in accusing me of what I know not … Not even to understand what he was saying – just vitriolic spew… (Revelation …)See, Wispring, all that is happening is twisting and thrashing on this matter like the ancient dragons tail… They launch an attack with nonsense, get beaten down with righteousness but just regather, regroup and relaunch another attack to get beaten again… (The wolves tryingto blow down the brick house of the pigs – they are wasting your breath!)
See, Wispring, if they were honest searchers if truth, they would not refuse the good knowledge and invent the false… But the Spirit FORCE of delusion is strong on these ones!Quote Shimmer, you are my friend, and I don't want to fight with you. Mike, Im not fighting with anyone, thinking and discussing Mike, I think about this a lot and i enjoy reading the posts, I come to realise yesterday how much I have learnt from being on this forum, just as you have. I liked the ending of your post yesterday, page 259, how you will accept it as a child, and fair enough.
Peace and love to you too Mike.
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