Do spirits have bodies?

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November 26, 2010 at 2:15 am#226509

mikeboll64

Blocked

JA:

Quote

Are there horses and Chariots of fire in heaven…or was this figurative speech….?

Will that be your answer to every scripture now JA? The “all” in Col 1:16 is “figurative”. The “fire” is “figurative”. “Firstborn” is “figurative”. “Begotten” is “figurative”. How do you decide? Don't answer – I already know. You start with your OWN OPINION of how things were and are, and then you make certain words be “figurative” in the Bible in order for the scriptures to fit around YOUR OPINOIN.

Okay, forget Elisha and the chariots of fire. Let's talk “donkey”.

Numbers 22 NIV
31 Then the LORD opened Balaam’s eyes, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with his sword drawn. So he bowed low and fell facedown.

32 The angel of the LORD asked him, “Why have you beaten your donkey these three times? I have come here to oppose you because your path is a reckless one before me. 33 The donkey saw me and turned away from me these three times. If it had not turned away, I would certainly have killed you by now, but I would have spared it.”

I ask the same question here as I did about Elisha. Do you suppose the angel had a body when only the donkey could see him? Or did he “manifest” a body that only the donkey could see at first, and then “manifest” another body that Balaam was also able to see?

The point is that the angel had a body whether Balaam could see it or not at the moment. The chariots and horses had bodies even though Elisha's servant could not see them at first.

JA:

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And what do you think…flames of fire….what is fire but raw energy, energy unleashed…does energy have container, a body…

Well, if a fire is in the fireplace and not outside of it, then it has an outer perimeter, right? That is a “body”. Anything that determines that “this area is fire” and “this area is not fire' is a “body” of sorts.

JA:

Quote

If you understood more then you would not be disputing…you lack advanced knowledge and only see things with childish eyes..nit meek child but ignorant child.

Good. Because Jesus says, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.” He also says, “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.”

JA:

Quote

Energy…with intelligence…can create anything…

You have energy. You claim to have intelligence. Would you create me my own planet? Oh, and while you're at it, create me a species of life that I can rule over on that planet.

Do you even think before posting?

JA:

Quote

Outside God? There is no 'outside God' because everything is in God..
That's why we are in God and God is in Us because God is all invasive…because spirit is all invasive…if allowed to be.

There is no “outside God” because his Spirit it all invasive……..IF ALLOWED TO BE. So what does that mean? Do I, a mere human, have the power to NOT allow God's Spirit in me? And if I choose NOT to allow it in me, then I would be “outside God”, would I not?

The rest of your post is just more of your opinions – and they are not scripturally supported. JA, I used to enjoy your posts. I used to learn something every once in a while from them. But you are now reduced to posting any number of things that scripture doesn't come close to supporting. And you choose to ignore the things I claim that are said DIRECTLY in the scriptures.

You refuse to believe 1 Cor 15, where Paul clealy explains that there are earthly bodies and heavenly bodies. He says we have been born with the earthly body, but some of us will aquire a spiritual body. Why won't you believe what the scriptures say? Why do you feel your own intelligence is any match for God's teachings?

From now on, if you want to discourse with me, post a scripture and make a claim of your understanding of it. We can discuss that one scripture in light of other ones. I've had it with “the world according to JA” posts.

peace and love,
mike

November 26, 2010 at 3:17 am#226514

GeneBalthrop

Participant

To All………..Spirits (intellects) do (NOT) have bodies they reside (IN) bodies. God creates a Body and then adds Spirit into it, even all creation has spirit (IN) them and it all originated from one Source and that source was and is the LORD GOD himself. IMO

peace and love………………………………….gene

November 26, 2010 at 6:42 am#226526

JustAskin

Participant

Hi Mikeboll,
I see now from your post above why you have a problem…you are not very well educated nor receptive of the Holy Spirit but choose your own 'spirit of mikeboll64 truth'

You read everything with a literal stance and see everything from a fleshly standpoint.

Mike, in order to progress, you need to start seeng things from the real Spiritual point of view.

You need to 'put off the old, and put on the new'.

Did the Angel 'need' a sword to stop Balaam? Hardly…and where did the 'Spirit' get a sword from?

The Angel did not manifest itself visibly to Balaam but only to the donkey…how does a donkey perceive the world around it differently from a higher level human…certainly, the donkey saw/perceived something 'dangerous' in it's path and turned aside but Balaam did not see it.

Perhaps the Angel thought that Balaam would have realised there was something up….for sure, Balaam did not see/perceive the Angel until it fully manifested itself after Balaam beat the donkey…and what, a human voiced talking donkey? Where is Stuart? Did heread this, i hope not otherwise this is proof that humans are not the only 'animals' who acquired highlevel speech (All animals 'communicate' with each other in one form or another).
So the donkey 'Spoke' to Balaam … And it didn't seem strange to Balaam that the donkey was speaking …Hebrew… I thought donkeys spoke 'Carrot'!!

Or, or… maybe … Balaam could understand 'Carrot'?

Or, maybe, it was figurative language for the donkey eyawing in pain yet 'stubbornly' refusing to carry out its master's order…seeing one of greater hierachy indicating to the contrary. In fact, why didn't the donkey tell Balaam that the Angel was opposing it…in fact, again, why did the Angel oppose the donkey at first…why did it not manifest itself to Balaam in the first place…?

Mike, i don't really think you have any idea what you are talking about.
You seem to me like a desperately ignorant child trying to interject in adult conversation, and the adults have to keep explaining things to you to try and get you up to speed.

You do not understand Dimensions…why?
Dimensions explains exactly how a 'person' can be here, there, anywhere, and everywhere in one time and anytime and all times (Multiply out those combinations…oh, you don't understand…sorry!)

It also shows that a physical body cannot exist in a higher dimension outside the fourth dimension. In order to be able to be 'here' and 'there' the 'object', the 'Mind', the 'Intellect (thanks Gene)', the Spirit, cannot be in a contained body. The Spirit is free from three dimensional space. Three dimensional space is the container…Time, is the fourth dimension, hence a contained body in a fixed point in time. Move time forward…and the contained object is 'animated' …moves… by the power of lintellect's desire. Like 'Animating a 'two dimentional' cartoon, or film…now we have learnt how to 'perceive' the third dimension if we wear special glasses….see…perhaps Balaam had a sight problem?

Mike, Angels have a FORM, Spirits have a FORM, but they do not have bodies…what Body does a Spirit need.

Mike, why do they call Alcohol, 'Spirit'?
Because, if it's container…is left open to the air …it disappears, evaporates, it 'spirits itself away', and to where, Mike,? Where, …to whereever it wills…and you can neither see it nor touch it but…you may perceive it…and it is here, there, and everywhere…and look, see, this liquid spirit has no intellect so it goes where it is blown…and what if had intellect…and could gather itself at another point, become again, a 'body', contained liquid? Appear anywhere, spirit out of the bottle, like a genii (the genii is mythological,… and visible for our visual story telling sake) The Spirit has power, energy, force, and can do damage, or good as the intellect desires…fortunately, God, for the Angels, has limited what they are allowed to do, when they are allowed to do it and where they may go to do it.

November 26, 2010 at 6:50 am#226527

JustAskin

Participant

Everyone laughed at the jokes that were being told down the pub…the speaker was well versed in 'pulling' the audience and the ladies were particularly taken by him.
He earned quite a bit that night. Certainly, he will get invited back.
There was one strange thing though that everyone commented on afterwards…and that was he only drank water…. All the other dogs drank lager…most, odd that one?

November 26, 2010 at 7:33 am#226529

shimmer

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 26 2010,18:42)

Mike, Angels have a FORM, Spirits have a FORM, but they do not have bodies…what Body does a Spirit need.

Ok so if Angels have a form and Spirits have a form, but no bodies….what is the form then ?

Wouldnt it be a different type of body ?

November 26, 2010 at 7:47 am#226530

shimmer

Participant

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 26 2010,19:33)

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 26 2010,18:42)

Mike, Angels have a FORM, Spirits have a FORM, but they do not have bodies…what Body does a Spirit need.

Ok so if Angels have a form and Spirits have a form, but no bodies….what is the form then ?

Wouldnt it be a different type of body ?

Hi. Forget I asked that, please. I should only be focusing on a few things at the moment. No need to answer this question. Really.

November 26, 2010 at 5:00 pm#226578

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Shimmer………Angel have bodies with GOD given Spirit in them, What JA is saying is partially right , But he is saying Spirit have form and reckons that as a kind of body, i would disagree with that . I believe Spiirt is (intellect) which occupies thing that have form as a Body does. the angels were seen in both Balaam's and Elijah's case when the eyes of the people involved were opened to seen them , i do not believe they were able to appear and disappear as He does, but simply were allow to be seen by Men having there eyes opened to see them. Very much like perceiving Spiritual things over Carnal perceptions, It all has to do with the intellect or Spirit and the Power to percieve. Just my understanding on this JA does have some interesting point though to consider. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………gene

November 26, 2010 at 7:04 pm#226604

mikeboll64

Blocked

Hi JA,

I didn't bother reading your tripe, nor will I. Scripture and explanation of how you understand it please.

Then we can continue.

mike

November 26, 2010 at 8:43 pm#226624

JustAskin

Participant

Ah,,,,so you finally got it…but are too embarassed to admit it.

Poor you. But even so. I'm glad you finally got there.

Now you can move forward.

Without a body, the Spirit is restrained in neither space nor time.
But God has restrained backwards Time, time past, for the Angels as this is only possible in the highest Heaven, God's abode. And no Angel can abuse his position in God's presence.

November 26, 2010 at 9:14 pm#226625

JustAskin

Participant

Shimmer,

The FORM is IMMATERIAL MATTER…i.e. Energy…Force, Power…with Intellect.

Why do we say “The Power of thought” (That's what I put on my Website over three years ago: 'Powered by Thought' )

Shimmer,
Where can you not go with the power of your thought?
Did you need a body in order to take you there?
What can you do when you get there?
What prohibited you from doing it?
Try this exercise: go inside a fiercest erupting Volcano
Travel down to the bottom of the deepest Ocean
Reach out to the most inhospitable Planet
Eat the most poisonous rotting food
All in the power of your thought
Were you harmed at all?
Did you need a body?
Why was that?
What did Einstein discover: E=MC² Do you know what this means?>

November 26, 2010 at 11:26 pm#226639

terraricca

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 26 2010,23:42)

Hi Mikeboll,
I see now from your post above why you have a problem…you are not very well educated nor receptive of the Holy Spirit but choose your own 'spirit of mikeboll64 truth'

You read everything with a literal stance and see everything from a fleshly standpoint.

Mike, in order to progress, you need to start seeng things from the real Spiritual point of view.

You need to 'put off the old, and put on the new'.

Did the Angel 'need' a sword to stop Balaam? Hardly…and where did the 'Spirit' get a sword from?

Or, or… maybe … Balaam could understand 'Carrot'?

Mike, Angels have a FORM, Spirits have a FORM, but they do not have bodies…what Body does a Spirit need.

it is not that i do not understand English,

but this is crap;

either you do not understand what the intervention was ,meant,was to accomplish ??
or you try to use it for another purpose,your allegory will only arouse people like gene.and edj

scriptures says that there is such a thing as spiritual body.s ,it is obvious that the angels do not have eyes like us or anything like us,but they still have hearing capabilities,and so seeing capabilities,and a mind or spirit of there own,

now if you try to explain this with what you obviously do not know,this would be difficult for others to understand is it??

Pierre

November 27, 2010 at 12:20 am#226641

shimmer

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 27 2010,09:14)

Shimmer,

The FORM is IMMATERIAL MATTER…i.e. Energy…Force, Power…with Intellect.

Why do we say “The Power of thought” (That's what I put on my Website over three years ago: 'Powered by Thought' )

Yeah it IS amazing where you can go with the power of thought alone,

Thought and emotions, feeling, freedom in the spirit without the limitations of the human body.

I used to think the only freedom people will truely experience is when they are free of their body, and free of all that life has made them become, free to feel and think and love and be.

If that makes sense, free to be whoever they may be.

Life weighs people down in all sorts of ways,

Spirits without body, I can see your point, but scripture, wouldnt it say otherwise ?

November 27, 2010 at 12:49 am#226642

JustAskin

Participant

Ah Terra,
Both you and Mike are out of your depth.

So you become as the Pharasees were to Jesus.

You think of things in earthly terms and cannot see in the Spirit.

Like children with immature minds, you cannot see the greater glory.

Terra, do you know what some children say, when asked where Chicken eggs comes from?

They say, 'From the Supermarket'.

Now, try telling those kids that eggs come out the of a lady chickens bottom (Euphomism…) and they go,
'No, that a lie, I know because my mom gets them from the shops every week, and for when we make cakes'.
Or , 'Yuk, i'm never gonna eat another egg',
Or, 'That's sad,…so we just killed and ate a little chick this morning'.

Yes, Terra, childish eyes.

To 'See', to 'Hear', to 'Feel'…these senses are also attributes of the Spiritual form.
They are not 'physical' in the Spirit but are senses none the less.

God 'talks' to the Angels, but not with a physical mouth.
You can 'grieve' (Hurt), the 'feelings' of the Holy Spirit, or, how does that verse go…'Do not [put to the] test the Angel of the Lord, for my name (Power and authority) is in him'
Spirits can 'See', but don't need physical eyes…

Terra, There are many things in the world that humans cannot yet understand…how do birds and Fish navigate…what 'senses' do they use to do that…how do they learn to go places they have never been to and know that they should go there?
How did the ancient Egyptians build the Pyramids? Even with modern technology, it is only theory as to exactly how they managed such pinpoint accurate work…and these are physical things…what more, even greater things, can the Spirit achieve without hinderance from a limited fleshly body?

Can a fish contemplate Rocket Science? Try telling it that…it will laugh at you, 'gurgle, gurgle, gurgle…'
Tell a man in Jesus' time that one day man will be able to talk to and see another man as if they were right in front of them (Telephone, Tv, Internet, Webcam). What do you think he would say?
SmelliVision, touchiVision, interactiVision….

Terra, we 'can be' Gods…because we are made in the image of God.

So what God has done, we can do in our limited fleshly way…and we are doing so, in a haphazard way, we build life inside our computer systems, our computer universe, and we give it the attributes that we have…but we build them 'silicon' bodies, bits and bytes bodies and they, when we build in selfawareness, ha! When they 'eat of the fruit' will also become aware of themselves, and wonder about their creator and what 'form' we are…but will they also say, they must be 'silicon' like us, 'bits and bytes' like us.
No Terra, bitsand bytes cannot exist outside of the computer system, any more than flesh and blood bodies, or however you are saying it, can exist in the Heavenly places.

Lift your eyes, your 'inner spiritual eyes' and you will see the glory of God, and the Heavenly realm.

And further…does the Scriptures mention 'Spiritual bodies' anywhere except pertaining to Christ and the adopted brethren?

It mentions 'Heavenly bodies' in two forms. One is 'in the heavens (plural)' meaning 'Sky and Space'. Bodies like Sun, Moon and Stars.
Two, 'bodies', as in 'Earthly person', and 'Spiritual person'. Yes, there is the Earthly Man, and there is the Spiritual man.

November 27, 2010 at 1:17 am#226645

JustAskin

Participant

Einstein's theory…Einstein's fact…
Energy is equivalent to Mass time a constant.

Mass is not about where you go to on a Sabbath, but means 'Matter', physical elements.

The whole universe is composed of Matter…physical, chemical elements.

And…where did this Matter come from?

Energy….
Break Matter apart, and you release Energy, huge amounts of Energy…proof….Matter is compressed pure constrained contained Energy.
We…are…every atom of our bodies is Matter…and Matter is….?

So what drives this complexed combination of compressed energy forming atoms and atoms clumped together called Molecules, and Molecules organised together called , i don't know…parts, and parts together called a body. What drives the body…but a force, a mind, an intellect, a Spirit…

God speaks to mankind through the elements, using the elements,…air, fire, thunder, lightening…the Israelites could not stand the sound of God's voice and begged Moses to ask God to stop…and God did…he spoke after that only through, by way of, the Prophets…

When we pray, God 'may' hear us. May? It means 'respond'…if we pray earnestly, then God will respond…see hear…what is 'hearing'. God sees what we do always….spiritual vision, see hear, what does God 'see' and how does he 'hear' and 'see' All of us, All of the time…
We teach our children (some silly ones of us) that Santa Clause, Old Saint Nicolaus, sees us and knows if we are good or bad….sad…take the emphasis from God and give it to a silly fat guy in a red outfit designed by 'Pepsi Cola'…a designer God, who brings bribery presents for our little ones….because we think our little ones won't understand who the invisible God is….we need to teach them a tangible 'God'…like Mike and Terra need a touchyfeely Spirit.

November 27, 2010 at 1:44 am#226649

terraricca

Participant

you say;Terra, we 'can be' Gods…because we are made in the image of God
——————————————————————-
but we have been gods for a long long time ,we received that tittle right in Paradise,it says ;LOOK I(GOD)GIVE ALL THIS SO LOOK AFTER THIS AND MULTIPLY AND CULTIVATE AND ,,,,,,,,,,,

look now today were we standing ,wars still going on,poverty still there,misery still there,sickness still there ,hate still there,
and you talking of understanding beyond the universe?and yet do not understand the basics of it all.

we are failed gods,failed children we are failed tenants,

you forget one major thing and that is the plan of God was to fill the earth with righteous people,because of Satan corruption and challenge to God that his plan was an failure,but God will accomplish this at a later date,
and what we know today will become irrelevant then.

Pierre

November 27, 2010 at 1:48 am#226650

shimmer

Participant

Good posts JA, there definatly are two things happening , there's the spiritual side and there's the physical side an your posts are good.

But remember it says we will have – in the twinkle of an eye – do you how fast that is – that we (Whoever) will have new bodies. ?

November 27, 2010 at 1:50 am#226651

shimmer

Participant

SO JA though I can agree with you, and it sounds good, what about those scriptures which say man will have a new body ?

November 27, 2010 at 2:26 am#226654

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Shimmer ………..> in my opinion nothing can exist without a body as a Soul without a body. Spiirt enters Bodies and give it life it is intellect working in bodies it is what keep us alive even in our blood cells it is working to sustain our physical lives and it is Spirit. So we now have Spirit bodies in a sense and these bodies can live forever, If GOD willed it. Look what the Lord God said about Adam before he drove him out LEST HE PUT FORTH HIS HAND AND TAKE OF THE TREE (THAT WHICH PRODUCES FRO IT SELF) OF LIFE AND NEVER DIE. So it was possible for them to have never died even in the bodies they had, because the Spirit of life could have keep regenerating it for ever. Spirit is LIFE it is the POWER that produces LIFE in all aspects of LIEFS existence. IMO

Spirit it self does not have a BODY it is what is (IN) a Body, and i believe Me and JA are not far apart on this . IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………………………………..gene