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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 17 2012,01:32) Wakeup……….How about when Jesus said He was SON of MAN over 80 times does that mean anything to you. Question is in what way was Jesus a Son of GOD, and in what way are we called Sons of GOD also. peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………………..gene
Gene b.Jesus is the sword of God made FLESH, and there fore he also is man, he was born out of a woman like all of us; but by the will of his father. We are also the son of man,born out of a woman,but by the will of the flesh(dad).
To make it simple:
He is called the son of God because he was born by the will of God. He is also called the son of man,because he was born out of a woman.wakeup.
Quote (t8 @ July 16 2012,02:49) Quote (Lightenup @ July 16 2012,16:26) Hi Wakeup,
Jesus died on the cross according to His flesh, not according to His divinity, as I understand it.Also, the one who pre-existed flesh as a heavenly being, even the only begotten God, humbled Himself and took on a different form. He became a human baby while still remaining who He was according to His pre-existent nature, as divinity. Being truly a human baby according to the limitations of the human flesh nature, He depended on others for His care as any other human baby would.
But LU, according to you, God had to be toilet trained etc.
t8,
If you believe that Jesus pre-existed as a heavenly being of whatever sort, theos, angel, or whatever, the concept is still strange but it would be also strange if He became flesh as a baby and didn't need to be potty trained, etc.The pre-existent being who was with God in the beginning and was God as the begotten God, became a human baby which is quite a supernatural event. It was not the Father that became flesh as a human baby but His only begotten Son. He sent His Son who took on a body prepared for him which was born from a virgin, that too is quite supernatural. We aren't told every detail although we are told that Jesus, according to the flesh, grew in wisdom, stature and in favor with God and man.
Jesus, before becoming flesh, emptied Himself of whatever was necessary to be a human child while still remaining the begotten God. Being the Begotten God was not something He could empty Himself of.
Quote (Wakeup @ July 16 2012,08:06) Quote (Lightenup @ July 16 2012,13:26) Quote (Wakeup @ July 14 2012,17:16) Quote (Lightenup @ July 12 2012,09:16) Pierre,
So, the God of gods has more authority than the Lord of lords…Jehovah is still both of them.You may have given your child everything and you are in authority over your child…that is why you are the father and they are not. Still you and your child are part of a unity.
Lightenup.Are you saying that God died on the cross,when he left jesus before he died; Eli Eli lama sabachtany?
Are you saying that mary changed Gods nappies,and fed on mary's breast?
can you tell me?
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,
Jesus died on the cross according to His flesh, not according to His divinity, as I understand it.Also, the one who pre-existed flesh as a heavenly being, even the only begotten God, humbled Himself and took on a different form. He became a human baby while still remaining who He was according to His pre-existent nature, as divinity. Being truly a human baby according to the limitations of the human flesh nature, He depended on others for His care as any other human baby would.
Lightenup.Let me tell you what is the truth:
1.Our God the father,(JHWH) has never experience death.
To die only means that he was under satans power,because satan is death itself: death will only be conquered,when satan is no more.2. No human person has ever touched The fathers body in any way nor form: flesh or not flesh.
3. The father has never sucked on any womans breast for food;either in the flesh or not flesh.
4.When Jesus cried ''my God ,my God''—-
why have you forsaken me''. HE WAS NOT PLAYING HOLLYWOOD.5. When jesus said,''I am the son of God''. It is the truth, He does not speak with a split tongue.
6. The word became flesh: never change it to God was made flesh.
A small twist can cause a big fall.
wakeup.
Hello Wakeup,Let me address this one by one:
you said:Quote Let me tell you what is the truth: 1.Our God the father,(JHWH) has never experience death.
To die only means that he was under satans power,because satan is death itself: death will only be conquered,when satan is no more.True, God the Father has never experienced death. His Son, the Begotten God did experience death according to the flesh that He took on. It was not by satan's power that His flesh died but the Son willingly laid down His life.
John 10:17“For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18“No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”
Quote 2. No human person has ever touched The fathers body in any way nor form: flesh or not flesh. The Father never became flesh. I agree that no person on earth has touched the Father.
Quote 3. The father has never sucked on any womans breast for food;either in the flesh or not flesh. This is also true. It was not the Father but the Father's Son, the only Begotten God that became flesh as a human child. It was this flesh body that needed food, not the pre-existent heavenly being.
Quote 4.When Jesus cried ''my God ,my God''—-
why have you forsaken me''. HE WAS NOT PLAYING HOLLYWOOD.That is also true. Jesus, the only begotten God, was crying out to His Father. His Father forsook Him apparently because of the fact that all the sins of the world were put on Him on the cross. This forsaking did not last long, only long enough to serve its purpose.
Quote 5. When jesus said,''I am the son of God''. It is the truth, He does not speak with a split tongue. That is also true. The literal Son of God would be a begotten God because like begets like.
Quote 6. The word became flesh: never change it to God was made flesh. The word was the only begotten God who was in the beginning with God the Father. The only begotten God became flesh, not God the Father.
Quote A small twist can cause a big fall. Yes, and you twisted my statement in my post and left out the word 'begotten' from 'begotten God.'
Read my words:
Quote Also, the one who pre-existed flesh as a heavenly being, even the only begotten God, humbled Himself and took on a different form. Pay attention to the details Wakeup
They are there to help you.Scriptural facts: Jesus came down from heaven. Jesus had glory alongside God before the world was created by his God through him.
Delusion: Those scriptures don't really mean what they clearly say because I DON'T WANT THEM TO.
Scriptural fact: Jesus is the Son of the Most High God.
Delusion: Jesus IS the very God he is the Son of.
Scriptural fact: In the OT, Jehovah is the God of gods and Lord of lords.
Delusion: In the NT, Jehovah is only the God of gods and not the Lord of lords.
Quote Remember Kathi is quoting you in the section that is called DELUTIONS. It is called “Delusions” Pierre.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 21 2012,23:05) Scriptural fact: In the OT, Jehovah is the God of gods and Lord of lords. Delusion: In the NT, Jehovah is only the God of gods and not the Lord of lords.
Kathithe lack of understanding in the OT and NT make people dream and lose their way,
Delusion; they start to believe in their dream and tell lies to all they meet,and tell them that ; In the NT, Jehovah is only the God of gods and not the Lord of lords.
the truth is why would Jehovah keep that title Lord of lords ,when he has given it to his son Jesus Christ ,his new king ,forever
Quote (Lightenup @ July 21 2012,23:07) Quote Remember Kathi is quoting you in the section that is called DELUTIONS. It is called “Delusions” Pierre.
thanksThanks Pierre for confirming that you believe the delusion that Jehovah is no longer the Lord of lords in the NT.
The truth is that Jehovah is still the God of gods and the Lord of lords and that Jesus is that Lord of lords. As a babe in a manger, He was Lord. He didn't become Lord when He became the King of the throne of David…He was Lord when He created all things in heaven and on earth.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 21 2012,23:30) Thanks Pierre for confirming that you believe the delusion that Jehovah is no longer the Lord of lords in the NT. The truth is that Jehovah is still the God of gods and the Lord of lords and that Jesus is that Lord of lords. As a babe in a manger, He was Lord. He didn't become Lord when He became the King of the throne of David…He was Lord when He created all things in heaven and on earth.
That is false,unless you have a scripture that I forgot do you???Pierre,
Do you want a scripture that proves that Jehovah is still both God of gods and Lord of lords? You don't believe that Jehovah is still both, is that right?Quote (Lightenup @ July 09 2012,05:27) Hi t8,
Thanks for asking. I do object to using the word 'binity' to express what I believe. Are you and your wife a binity? If you want a word to sum up what I believe, use the word that the Bible uses:
A husband and wife are not one being.
And God is not defined by his nature but by his person or identity. After all God shares his nature with others. So not a good analogy.Just as Adam is defined by his identity and that is not to be confused with adam which means man or mankind.
Your doctrine sounds like a Binity. If you added the Holy Spirit, then you would have a Trinity after all.
t8,
I'm not saying the Father and Son are are one being. They are two.Also, their original nature establishes the Father and the Son as divine and deity. Acquiring divine nature does not establish one as divine AND deity. I have mentioned that several times and you never acknowledge that.
Please do not use the term binity when referring to what I believe!
Quote (Lightenup @ July 20 2012,23:05) Scriptural fact: In the OT, Jehovah is the God of gods and Lord of lords. Delusion: In the NT, Jehovah is only the God of gods and not the Lord of lords.
That would be quite a delusion, Kathi. Of course we know that Jesus and his God are both Lords over other lords. King David was also a Lord over other lords, according to scripture.The delusion comes in when someone tries to take the facts that David was a Lord over other lords, and Jesus is a Lord over other lords, and illogically claim that David IS Jesus simply because of these similarities.
It would be equally deluded to notice that both David and Jesus were faithful shepherds of Jehovah's flock, and use that similarity between them to claim they are one and the same.
It would be like saying, “David is good, and Jesus is good, and God is good, ergo, David, Jesus and God are all the same being.”
Or like saying, “King Nebuchadnezzar is called the King of kings, and Jesus is called the King of kings, therefore, King Nebuchadnezzar IS Jesus.”
These types of delusions are created when one's DESIRE for something to be the truth overrides what the scriptures actually teach. When that kind of desire takes hold of certain people, there is no end to the snippets of scripture that can be manipulated into teaching what that person WANTS those snippets to teach.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 21 2012,23:54) Pierre,
Do you want a scripture that proves that Jehovah is still both God of gods and Lord of lords? You don't believe that Jehovah is still both, is that right?
KATHIif God almighty loses a title tell me who would demote him???
Quote (Lightenup @ July 23 2012,21:07) Is that all you have Pierre? A nonsensical answer to my question?
Kathisome times simple question ,make our tower fall ,just like it make yours crumble,
And sometimes questions don't make any sense and are totally non-applicable Pierre. Do you want to try again? Or are you afraid of really having your bubbles broken with scripture?
kathi
Quote Pierre,
Do you want a scripture that proves that Jehovah is still both God of gods and Lord of lords? You don't believe that Jehovah is still both, is that right?God almighty is the God of gods and Lord of lords , and Christ his Lord of lords and king of kings, what is so difficult to understand ???I show you this already and they are in perfect harmony
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