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Quote (Lightenup @ July 08 2012,17:16) Pierre,
Whether or not the Lord of lords serves the God of gods…Jehovah is still BOTH God of gods and Lord of lords. So for you to say that one is higher than the other…so what, Jehovah is both God of gods AND Lord of lords and together they are both head over all power and all authority and have all dominion in this age and in the one to come.
kathyNO JEHOVAH HIS THE ONLY GOD OF GODS AND THE ONLY LORD OF LORDS ,
THERE IS NO TOGETHERNESS ,UNITY CAN BE ,FOR WE CAN ALL BE UNITED TO JEHOVAH ,
BUT JEHOVAH STAND ALONE ABOVE ALL GODS ,
Kathi,
I think this thread is for trying to figure out WHERE these delusions came from. Do you remember the exact moment when you started believing that the Son of God was the God he is the Son of? Were you reading the Bible, and a particular scripture seemed to clearly speak of two Most High Gods?
Or did you learn this from men first, and THEN comb the scriptures trying to find support for this doctrine of man?
Mike,
You indicate that I believe in one person that is His own Son yet in the next sentence you indicate that I believe in two persons. I'm pretty sure that you know that I believe in two persons and one is from the other so why would you act like I was saying that one came from himself? You probably need a break or something.You asked if I learned this from men first. No, I learned this from the Holy Spirit giving me understanding as I read and meditated on the scriptures. It is not difficult, Mike.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 09 2012,00:16) Mike,
You indicate that I believe in on person that is His own Son yet in the next sentence you indicate that I believe in two persons. I'm pretty sure that you know that I believe in two persons and one is from the other so why would you act like I was saying that one came from himself? You probably need a break or something.You asked if I learned this from men first. No, I learned this from the Holy Spirit giving me understanding as I read and meditated on the scriptures. It is not difficult, Mike.
KathiSo what do you believe in that is different of what you have argued with most of us
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 08 2012,02:10) T8………..But you can Preach the “DELUSION” of a PREEXISTENT JESUS and that is OK , right? interesting condemn others exempt yourself> Many here have shown over the years what you preach is a Delusion on this subject of “Preexistence” but you assume them of preaching Delusions and not your. Now that is indeed interesting to say the least. Its like beholding the splinter in you brothers eye and not seeing the Beam in you own eye. Are we now to believe what ever does not agree with your religious concepts is a “DELUSION” on this site, Because YOU say so? That changes the whole attitude of the Heaven Net Site, where i alway believed there was a freedom of expression of one thoughts. Now are we to believe anytime we disagree with you were are under a “DELUSION” of some kind? What makes you so sure you are not the one DELUDED? IMO
peace and love to you and yours T8………………………………………………………………gene
peace and Love to you and yours T8…………………………………………………………………..gene
GEneB.Isiah 9:6. For unto us a child is born,unto us a son is given: and the govenment shall be upon his shoulders; and his name shall be called WONDERFUL, COUNSELOR,—–THE MIGHTY GOD—–,THE EVERLASTING FATHER—,THE PRINCEEOF PEACE.
Isiah 44:6. Thus said the Lord the KING of israel,AND HIS REDEEMER THE lORD OF HOST: I AM THE FIRST, AND I AM THE LAST,BESIDE ME THERE IS NO GOD.(this simply means that God is speaking through his living word: God is living; and his word is also living).His living word obeys the living God.And once the word is spoken ;God must honour it,he must keep it.
Unless he wants to change it.Isiah 45:5. I AM THE LORD AND THERE IS NONE ELSE BESIDE ME:——(his word is in him).
22. —–I AM GOD AND THERE IS NONE ELSE BESIDE ME.(his word is in him).
Isiah 46:9. —I AM GOD AND THERE IS NONE ELSE; I AM GOD AND THERE IS NONE LIKE ME.
REV.1:11. I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA—–
17. —–I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST
18. I AM HE THAT LIVED AND WAS DEAD,AND BEHOLD I AM ALIVE FOR EVERMORE.—REV.22:13. I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA THE BEGINNING AND THE END,THE FIRST AND THE LAST.
GOD AND HIS LIVING WORD PREEXIST FROM EVERLASTING.
HIS WORD WAS MADE FLESH AT CONCEPTION,THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE WORD.
BUT THE CHANGING OVER FROM SPIRIT TO FLESH:Sorry for the bold letters.
wakeup.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 08 2012,05:10) T8………..But you can Preach the “DELUSION” of a PREEXISTENT JESUS and that is OK , right? interesting condemn others exempt yourself> Many here have shown over the years what you preach is a Delusion on this subject of “Preexistence” but you assume them of preaching Delusions and not your. Now that is indeed interesting to say the least. Its like beholding the splinter in you brothers eye and not seeing the Beam in you own eye. Are we now to believe what ever does not agree with your religious concepts is a “DELUSION” on this site, Because YOU say so? That changes the whole attitude of the Heaven Net Site, where i alway believed there was a freedom of expression of one thoughts. Now are we to believe anytime we disagree with you were are under a “DELUSION” of some kind? What makes you so sure you are not the one DELUDED? IMO
peace and love to you and yours T8………………………………………………………………gene
peace and Love to you and yours T8…………………………………………………………………..gene
Yes I preach that he existed in the form of God, emptied himself, and came as a man, died, rose again, and is seated at the right hand of the majesty on high in the glory that he had with him before the world began.And you cannot fault it because if you do, then you oppose scripture.
That is why it is you who has explaining to do. And beware of powerful delusions gene. They take hold when we rebel against the truth.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 08 2012,20:16) Mike,
You indicate that I believe in one person that is His own Son yet in the next sentence you indicate that I believe in two persons. I'm pretty sure that you know that I believe in two persons and one is from the other so why would you act like I was saying that one came from himself? You probably need a break or something.
Do you object to that doctrine being called the Binity so we can use one word to refer to it?T8………..Interesting , you can produce not one scriptures that shows any activity of Jesus before his berth on this earth and in fact Jesus never said one word of any activity of his, prior to his earth existence and you say we are deluded? You preexistences as well as all Trinitarians make Jesus out to be what he was Not, Your work is a work of Separation That moves Jesus away from humanity making him something different then we are and in that you weaken what GOD has and can do in humanity, you make Jesus something different, then our example of God working in a Human Being Just as we are Your failing to see Jesus as another Human Being that God Perfected while he was on this earth that he “Learned” obedience by the thing he suffered and Grow in Statue to that as a Human Being Is completely and totally a delusion you preexistences and trinitarians preach, so if i were you, instead of giving out threats to others i would be more considerate of my own state of consciousness concerning the truth of GOD. IMO
peace and love to you and yours T8………………………………………………………………………….gen
e
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 09 2012,00:57) T8………..Interesting , you can produce not one scriptures that shows any activity of Jesus before his berth on this earth and infact Jesus never said one words of any activity of his prior to his earth existence and you say we are deluded? You preexistences as well as all Trinitarians make Jesus out to be what he was Not, Your work is a work of Separation That moves Jesus away from humanity making him something different then we are and in that you weaken what GOD has and can do in humanity, you make Jesus something different then our example of God working in a Human Being Just as we are Your failing to see Jesus as another Human Being that God Perfected while he was on this earth that he “Learned” obedience by the thing he suffered and Grow in Statue to that as a Human Being Is completely and totally a delusion you preexistences and trinitarians preach, so if i were you, instead of giving out threats to others i would be more considerate of my own state of consciousness concerning the truth of GOD. IMO peace and love to you and yours T8………………………………………………………………………….gen
e
Gene B.Gen.14:18. And Melchizedek king of salem(king of peace)(jesus) brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
19. And he blessed him,and said;blessed be Abraham of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth.
Heb.7:1 Melchizedek king of salem priest of the most high God—-(Jesus).
2. —-King of righteousness;king of salem;king of peace(Jesus)
3. Without father .without mother, without descent,having no end of life; but –MADE– LIKE UNTO THE SON OF GOD;ABIDED A PRIEST CONTINUALLY.
Here you go,Jesus activity before he was born.
wakeup.
Wakeup……….Forcing the text to say what in fact it is not saying is a big Problem here, Show me one scripture that says Jesus in his “Past life” was Melchizedek King of Salem or (peace). In fact it say after the “ORDER” of Melchizedek He is clled as a “HIGH PRIEST” now that is hardly saying that Jesus was indeed Melchizedek Now is it? IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 08 2012,07:57) T8………..Interesting , you can produce not one scriptures that shows any activity of Jesus before his berth on this earth and in fact Jesus never said one word of any activity of his, prior to his earth existence and you say we are deluded? You preexistences as well as all Trinitarians make Jesus out to be what he was Not, Your work is a work of Separation That moves Jesus away from humanity making him something different then we are and in that you weaken what GOD has and can do in humanity, you make Jesus something different, then our example of God working in a Human Being Just as we are Your failing to see Jesus as another Human Being that God Perfected while he was on this earth that he “Learned” obedience by the thing he suffered and Grow in Statue to that as a Human Being Is completely and totally a delusion you preexistences and trinitarians preach, so if i were you, instead of giving out threats to others i would be more considerate of my own state of consciousness concerning the truth of GOD. IMO peace and love to you and yours T8………………………………………………………………………….gen
e
Gene,This post was SOOOO much easier for me to read than your usual posts. Using the “bold” feature makes it easy to understand what you are saying, and which points you are especially bringing our attention to.
When you use all the parenthesis, it is extremely hard for me to understand what you're even trying to say.
So while I don't agree with the content of your post, I was able to at least see and understand the points you are trying to focus our attention on.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 08 2012,00:16) Mike,
You indicate that I believe in one person that is His own Son……………………you act like I was saying that one came from himself? You probably need a break or something.
Kathi,These are YOUR words from our Biblical Discussion thread:
“Jesus is a member of the unity that He is a son of.”
To me it sounds like you're saying Jesus is his own son – or at the very least, part of his own father.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 08 2012,00:16) You asked if I learned this from men first. No, I learned this from the Holy Spirit giving me understanding as I read and meditated on the scriptures. It is not difficult, Mike.
Did you test that “Holy Spirit” against the words of scripture before believing it? Satan masquerades as an angel of light, you know. Besides, I don't believe that is the whole truth. I believe you have grown up being spoon fed the illogical doctrine that God's servant Jesus is equal with the God he serves. I don't believe you were reading your Bible, thinking that we had one God who had one begotten Son, and then all of a sudden, the Holy Spirit told you that the Son of the Most High God is also the Most High God.I think you have probably repressed the memory of the time when you first heard a pastor say that the Son of God is God, and thought to yourself, “What kind of nonsense is this?”
I have been hearing this first hand from my 10 year old son and his friends ever since they were 5. They come home from the Trinitarian church his mom takes them to, asking me how the Son of God can be God. And I personally believe that every single Trinitarian out there has, at one time in their life, had to “come to terms” with the “fact” that God's Son is also God – because the first time they heard this nonsensical claim, it was a very hard pill to swallow.
Quote (t8 @ July 08 2012,08:14) Quote (Lightenup @ July 08 2012,20:16) Mike,
You indicate that I believe in one person that is His own Son yet in the next sentence you indicate that I believe in two persons. I'm pretty sure that you know that I believe in two persons and one is from the other so why would you act like I was saying that one came from himself? You probably need a break or something.
Do you object to that doctrine being called the Binity so we can use one word to refer to it?
Hi t8,
Thanks for asking. I do object to using the word 'binity' to express what I believe. Are you and your wife a binity? If you want a word to sum up what I believe, use the word that the Bible uses:Jehovah
Deut 10:17
For Jehovah your God, he is God of gods, and Lord of lords, the great God, the mighty, and the terrible, who regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward.Mike,
Do you remember me changing the word to 'in' instead of 'of' because I thought that would help you understand better? You may have not seen that because you have not acknowledged it. Go back in that thread and look at my response.Jesus is a member of the unity that He is a son IN.
Also, if you understood that like begets like, then you can explain how a god could beget a god to your son. It doesn't have to be difficult.
Here Mike,
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=160
8th post down.Quote (Lightenup @ July 08 2012,12:32) Mike,
Do you remember me changing the word to 'in' instead of 'of' because I thought that would help you understand better? You may have not seen that because you have not acknowledged it.
I not only saw it, but responded to it (1st post on page 19). My response was something to the effect of, “Does the Bible say Jesus is the Son OF God, or the Son IN God?”You are not allowed to change the Bible's “OF” to “IN”, just so it suits your own man-made doctrine, are you?
Mike,
Do you not know that the Father is IN Jesus and Jesus is IN the Father? Jesus is not only OF the Father but He is IN the Father. John 17Okay Kathi,
So let's adjust your statement: Jesus is a member of the unity that He is a son of and a son in.
If you include the “OF” part, which you must because it is scriptural, then you're STILL saying Jesus is his own son – or at the very least, part of his own father.
Or would you prefer to eliminate the scriptural “OF” altogether so your man-made doctrine can reign supreme over the scriptures?
The Heaven Net “urban” Dictionary defines: Delusions – False beliefs that everyone but me suffers from.
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