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Quote (Lightenup @ July 24 2012,17:33) Mike,
1. Is Jesus, David's Lord, yes or no?2. Is David ever called or written as 'Lord of lords' as his name, yes or no?
1. YES2. NO
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2012,18:45) Quote (Lightenup @ July 24 2012,17:33) Mike,
1. Is Jesus, David's Lord, yes or no?2. Is David ever called or written as 'Lord of lords' as his name, yes or no?
1. YES2. NO
Great Mike,
You get a shiny star
For a while I thought you were equating the two as both being the Lord of lords as if it were both of their name.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 25 2012,17:47) Pierre,
God was always a Father with a Son.
kathicommon sense says that when you are called a father it is because their is a change ,a new comer ,like a son that was not there before ,all others are a lie
Quote (Lightenup @ July 24 2012,17:50) Great Mike,
You get a shiny star
Okay, now will you answer my point:Are you trying to refute the fact that King David was also a Lord of other lords, just like Jesus, Jesus' God Jehovah, and the many others who are Lords of other lords?
Also, you didn't comment about my post a couple of pages back.
Does the fact that Nebuchadnezzar was a King of other kings, and Jesus is a King of other kings equate those two? YES or NO?
Does the fact that David was a faithful shepherd of God's people and Jesus is a faithful shepherd of God's people equate those two? YES or NO?
Do these similarities between two beings cause them to be one and the same being? YES or NO?
Mike,
you asked:Quote Are you trying to refute the fact that King David was also a Lord of other lords, just like Jesus, his God Jehovah, and many others are Lords of other lords? Yes I am refuting that David was a Lord of other lords just like Jesus. Think a lord vs. the Lord. Big difference. You realize that a god is different than 'the' god, so why don't you realize the difference here? You also realize that satan could be considered a god of gods but you don't equate him to the one who is 'the' God of gods.
Quote Does the fact that Nebuchadnezzar was a King of other kings, and Jesus is a King of other kings equate those two? YES or NO? Neb was 'a' king of kings…Jesus is 'the' king of kings. Neb was an earthly king over his contemporary kings but was replaced but Jesus is the king over all kings of the whole earth forever, never to be replaced.
Quote Does the fact that David was a faithful shepherd of God's people and Jesus is a faithful shepherd of God's people equate those two? YES or NO? No! David temporarily 'was' a faithful earthly shepherd of animals, not people. Jesus is and always will be the faithful shepherd of His people.
Quote Do these similarities between two beings cause them to be one and the same being? YES or NO? They are NOT similar.
Pierre,
God was always a Father with a Son. What was different is at one time, the Son was within the Father and yet to be begotten…later He was begotten before the ages.Quote (Lightenup @ July 25 2012,18:46) Pierre,
God was always a Father with a Son. What was different is at one time, the Son was within the Father and yet to be begotten…later He was begotten before the ages.
kathiwere in scriptures is that written ,if it is not written it would be your opinion ,and man do I have opinions ,but that is not the truth of God so show me scriptures
Pierre,
Col 1:15+ tells us that He was born/begotten before anything was created in heaven or on earth. His name YHVH tells us that He always existed.
Acts10:36 (HRV) says, “YESHUA THE MESSIAH, HE IS YHWH OF ALL.”
Regarding communion, I Cor. 11:27 (HRV) says, “whoever eats of THE BREAD OF YHWH and drinks from his cup and is not worthy, he is indebted to THE BLOOD OF YHWH and to his body.”
I Cor. 12:3 (HRV) says, “there is no one who speaks by the spirit of Eloah (God) and says that Yeshua is accursed. And neither is a man able to say that YHWH IS YESHUA except by the Ruach HaKodesh” (Holy Spirit).
I Cor. 15:47 (HRV) says, “The first son of man (Adam) was dust that was from the earth. THE SECOND MAN (Yeshua) WAS YHWH FROM HEAVEN.”
I Cor. 8:6 (HRV) says, “But to us ourselves, [there] is ONE ELOAH, THE FATHER, from whom [are] all [things] and by whom we are, and ONE YHWH, YESHUA THE MESSIAH; by his hand [are] all [things] and by his hand we are also.”
Quote (Lightenup @ July 24 2012,18:44) Think a lord vs. the Lord.
So now we are letting the choice of an English translator – whether or not he capped the “L” – decided our doctrine for us? Come on, Kathi. Was there a distinction like this in the Hebrew or the Greek?Quote (Lightenup @ July 24 2012,18:44) Neb was 'a' king of kings…
How do you know that? Most translations say “the king of kings”. Are you saying that I couldn't see Neb walk down the street and say, “There goes the king of kings!” ?Again, come on.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 24 2012,18:44) No! David temporarily 'was' a faithful earthly shepherd of animals, not people.
70 He chose David his servant
and took him from the sheep pens;
71 from tending the sheep he brought him
to be the shepherd of his people Jacob,
of Israel his inheritance.
72 And David shepherded them with integrity of heart;
with skillful hands he led them.So you see that they ARE similar. Should we FORCE David into BEING Jesus because of these similarities? Should we search the scriptures to find other similarities, like the fact that Jesus will rule from DAVID'S throne, and use that to further the claim that David IS Jesus? Or should we ALSO consider the many DIFFERENCES between them?
See, this is what irritates me the most about your claims, Kathi. If some nut-job out there started claiming that David WAS Jesus just because they were both the shepherds of God's people, and both rule from the same throne, YOU would be on them like ugly on an ape. Yet you are blind to the fact that you do the exact same thing when it comes to Jesus and his God. You ignore the many DIFFERENCES between Jesus and the God who brought him into existence, and focus on trivial little things like them both being lords of other lords. As if there can only be one lord over other lords in existence.
Mike,
Good one to show me that David was considered a shepherd of people. I was wrong there, sorry. Still, a type of the heavenly is only a type. You would have to prove that Jesus was an earthly type of the heavenly One, i.e. that Jesus wasn't Lord of all creation and that He didn't have dominion over the universe when in His proper glorified place with the Father. You can't prove that but I can prove that He does have eternal dominion over the universe.The evidence remains that I have shown you many verses that call Jesus 'YHVH' in the Aramaic Bible in Plain English and the HRV in other threads. They would sure set you on a path of light from the one wayward one you are traveling down now and we wouldn't be having all this disagreement.
Lightenup, in another thread, you asked mike if he did any research on the Aramaic Bible in Plain English.
Rather than asking people to do research, why not start a thread, and show us the line of evidence from this Bible. But, rather than just show scriptures, I think it would be a good idea to show the history of this Bible…where it came from, the manuscripts, etc.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 25 2012,19:13) 5) Pierre, Col 1:15+ tells us that He was born/begotten before anything was created in heaven or on earth. His name YHVH tells us that He always existed.
Acts10:36 (HRV) says, “YESHUA THE MESSIAH, HE IS YHWH OF ALL.”
Regarding communion, I Cor. 11:27 (HRV) says, “whoever eats of THE BREAD OF YHWH and drinks from his cup and is not worthy, he is indebted to THE BLOOD OF YHWH and to his body.”
I Cor. 12:3 (HRV) says, “there is no one who speaks by the spirit of Eloah (God) and says that Yeshua is accursed. And neither is a man able to say that YHWH IS YESHUA except by the Ruach HaKodesh” (Holy Spirit).
I Cor. 15:47 (HRV) says, “The first son of man (Adam) was dust that was from the earth. THE SECOND MAN (Yeshua) WAS YHWH FROM HEAVEN.”
I Cor. 8:6 (HRV) says, “But to us ourselves, [there] is ONE ELOAH, THE FATHER, from whom [are] all [things] and by whom we are, and ONE YHWH, YESHUA THE MESSIAH; by his hand [are] all [things] and by his hand we are also.”
Kathi1) wrong;Paul talks about the father and the son
Col 1:12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light.
Col 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.The Supremacy of Christ
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.2) wrong;it call God and Christ lord ,so God in my book is higher than a lord no ? yes
Ac 10:36 You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.
3)wrong;it talks about the lord Jesus
1Co 11:23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread,
1Co 11:24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.”
1Co 11:25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
1Co 11:26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
1Co 11:27 Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning4)wrong;one God the father ,one lord Jesus Christ
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
5) wrong ;did not Christ say that ” he came down from the father ?yes he did .
1Co 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being” ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
1Co 15:46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.6) wrong;in those scriptures Paul just shows opposites views
1Co 12:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
this is again miss representation of Gods word;
Quote (david @ July 25 2012,02:08) Lightenup, in another thread, you asked mike if he did any research on the Aramaic Bible in Plain English. Rather than asking people to do research, why not start a thread, and show us the line of evidence from this Bible. But, rather than just show scriptures, I think it would be a good idea to show the history of this Bible…where it came from, the manuscripts, etc.
David,
A thread was already started months ago. It doesn't have much meat to it yet but it is a start.Pierre,
You are reading the verses as if YHWH is only a name for one person when the version is not just applying the name to just one person. I didn't write those verses Pierre, they came out of the Hebrew-Roots Version of the Scriptures. That version was translated from Hebrew and Aramaic manuscripts.Quote (Lightenup @ July 26 2012,13:50) Pierre,
You are reading the verses as if YHWH is only a name for one person when the version is not just applying the name to just one person. I didn't write those verses Pierre, they came out of the Hebrew-Roots Version of the Scriptures. That version was translated from Hebrew and Aramaic manuscripts.
kathiwhy you do not supply those manuscripts and the verses were it says what you are saying
Pierre,
Go here and read my last post with a link to find the Hebrew Roots Bible, then look up the verses on the PDF.https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….6;st=10
Or you can go here and scroll down to the Aramaic Bible in Plain English translation on the Bible cc site:
Quote (Lightenup @ July 26 2012,15:01) Pierre,
Go here and read my last post with a link to find the Hebrew Roots Bible, then look up the verses on the PDF.https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….6;st=10
Or you can go here and scroll down to the Aramaic Bible in Plain English translation on the Bible cc site:
kathiQuote 8:6 Variant Word Count: 7
yet for us there R288 is but one God, the R289 Father, from R290 whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one R291 Lord, Jesus Christ, by R292 whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
8:6 Variant Word Count: 9 (27%)
To us there is one God, the Father, from whom comes every thing and by whom we live; and one LORD Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.what I understand people do here make assumption ,that
when in scriptures it says “THERE IS BUT ONE GOD THE FATHER AND ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST ” then they think and make it one being ,AND THAT IS FALSE DEDUCTION.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 26 2012,17:46) Pierre,
There is no mention of one being there. That was your false deduction.
kathithen you do not clearly say what you mean
Quote Col 1:15+ tells us that He was born/begotten before anything was created in heaven or on earth. His name YHVH tells us that He always existed. this I show you as it as no nail to dance on
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