Continued discussion

Participant

Quote (2besee @ June 28 2013,02:16)

Hi Abe,
So IT which came down from Heaven was the words and spirit of God.
“the words that I speak to you, they are spirit , and they are life“

Enlighten me please Abe!

Hi 2b,

(Quote)
“the words that I speak to you, they are spirit, and they are life”

Jn.1:14 And the Word became flesh,

Jn.1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son(God), which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

(Quote)
So IT* which came down from Heaven was the words and spirit of God.

Jn.5:37 And the Father himself, which hath 'sent’ Me*(it), hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

(Quote)
So IT which came down from Heaven was the (1)words and (2)spirit of God.

What was the Son (word(1)) baptized With(2) ? Could not be the Word……Cannot…..Was not…….Is not.

Peace brother..

June 29, 2013 at 1:13 am#349111

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ June 28 2013,09:27)

Hi 2Besee,

This cryptic writing is too hard on my eyes to read.
If it is suppose to be a bible verse, post the AKJV Bible.

Because when someone wishes to make a point, a currupt version
or translation (A.K.A. “newer”) will only take one further away from the truth.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed. J.,

I find the AKJV corrupt in a number of places but then I am not an Anglican of the 16th Century.

June 29, 2013 at 1:19 am#349115

Participant

Quote (2besee @ June 28 2013,05:35)

Quote (kerwin @ June 28 2013,08:38)

Abe and 2besee,

The “because” tells us why Jesus is the firstborn over all creation.

Hi Kerwin.
Because He was risen from the dead?

2besee,

That's not the words given but there is definitely a relationship.

June 29, 2013 at 1:22 am#349116

Participant

Thanks Abe, I'll have to think about that! you always make me think which is good.

June 29, 2013 at 1:32 am#349119

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ June 29 2013,14:19)

Quote (2besee @ June 28 2013,05:35)

Quote (kerwin @ June 28 2013,08:38)

Abe and 2besee,

The “because” tells us why Jesus is the firstborn over all creation.

Hi Kerwin.
Because He was risen from the dead?

2besee,

That's not the words given but there is definitely a relationship.

Hi kerwin,
That is what I understood from reading Acts chapter 13 and also from looking into the word “begotten”.

It is best to read Acts 13 in full but here is a part:

Acts 13
And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took [him] down from the tree, and laid [him] in a sepulchre. But God raised him from the dead: And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

June 29, 2013 at 10:03 am#349142

Participant

Quote (2besee @ June 29 2013,07:32)

Quote (kerwin @ June 29 2013,14:19)

Quote (2besee @ June 28 2013,05:35)

Quote (kerwin @ June 28 2013,08:38)

Abe and 2besee,

The “because” tells us why Jesus is the firstborn over all creation.

Hi Kerwin.
Because He was risen from the dead?

2besee,

That's not the words given but there is definitely a relationship.

Hi kerwin,
That is what I understood from reading Acts chapter 13 and also from looking into the word “begotten”.

It is best to read Acts 13 in full but here is a part:

2besee,

The states cause is:

Colossians 1:16
King James Version (KJV)

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

The passage is a big run on sentence so I might only have it in part instead of the whole but it seems that the cause comes before the effect of him being the firstborn and not afterwards, as some would have.

June 30, 2013 at 10:41 am#349360

Participant

Quote

What was the Son (word(1)) baptized With(2) ? Could not be the Word……Cannot…..Was not…….Is not.

Abe,

Jesus the son of man and son of God (as the second Adam) was baptized with the holy spirit which came down from heaven.

He became the Christ at that moment.

Do you agree, or disagree?

June 30, 2013 at 10:43 am#349361

Participant

Three times son of God.

At his birth (conceived of the Holy Spirit) no Father of the flesh the second Adam.

Son when the Holy Spirit descended on him like a Dove.

Son when begotten from the dead, to eternity to be at God's right side.

June 30, 2013 at 10:45 am#349362

Participant

Thanks Kerwin.

June 30, 2013 at 5:40 pm#349387

Participant

Quote (2besee @ June 30 2013,02:41)

Quote

What was the Son (word(1)) baptized With(2) ? Could not be the Word……Cannot…..Was not…….Is not.

Abe,

Jesus the son of man and son of God (as the second Adam) was baptized with the holy spirit which came down from heaven.

He became the Christ at that moment.

Do you agree, or disagree?

Hi 2b,

(Quote)
He became the Christ at that moment.

Col.1:26 [that is], the mystery which has been hidden from the [past] ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, 27to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ IN YOU, the hope of glory.

Eph.1:22 And He put all things in subjection under His(Christ) feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, 23which is His Body, the fullness of Him who fills
all *IN’* all.

Col.3:10 and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the IMAGE of the *One* who Created him– 11[a renewal] in which there is no [distinction between] Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.

IMAGE(Christ) of the *One* who Created him–

To Me, Christ(Word) is in the Beginning(Wisdom) of the Creation.

He was created in the Beginning.

He was created as Jesus….

He was created from the Dead.

Col.1:15
3739 [e]hosὅςwhoRelPro-NMS *(1)Who*
1510 [e]estinἐστινisV-PI-3S
1504 [e]eikōnεἰκὼν[the] imageN-NFS
3588 [e]touτοῦof theArt-GMS
2316 [e]theouθεοῦGodN-GMS
3588 [e]touτοῦ–Art-GMS *Of The*
517 [e]aoratouἀοράτου“invisible,” Adj-GMS
4416 [e]prōtotokosπρωτότοκος[the] firstbornAdj-NMS
3956 [e]pasēsπάσηςof allAdj-GFS
2937 [e]ktiseōsκτίσεωςcreation;N-GFS

(:16)
3754 [e]hotiὅτιbecauseConj
1722 [e]enἐν*by*Prep *In*
846 [e]autōαὐτῷhimPPro-DM3S
2936 [e]ektisthēἐκτίσθηwere createdV-AIP-3S
3588 [e]taτὰ–Art-NNP
3956 [e]pantaπάνταall things,Adj-NNP
1722 [e]enἐνinPrep
3588 [e]toisτοῖςtheArt-DMP
3772 [e]ouranoisοὐρανοῖςheavens,N-DMP
2532 [e]kaiκαὶandConj
1909 [e]epiἐπὶuponPrep
3588 [e]tēsτῆςtheArt-GFS
1093 [e]gēsγῆςearth;N-GFS
3588 [e]taτὰtheArt-NNP
3707 [e]horataὁρατὰ**visible,** Adj-NNP
2532 [e]kaiκαὶandConj
3588 [e]taτὰtheArt-NNP
517 [e]aorataἀόραταinvisible;Adj-NNP
1535 [e]eiteεἴτεwhetherConj
2362 [e]thronoiθρόνοιthrones,N-NMP
1535 [e]eiteεἴτεorConj
2963 [e]kyriotētesκυριότητεςlordships,N-NFP *Lordships*
1535 [e]eiteεἴτεorConj
746 [e]archaiἀρχαὶprincipalities,N-NFP
1535 [e]eiteεἴτεorConj
1849 [e]exousiaiἐξουσίαιauthorities:N-NFP
3588 [e]taτὰ–Art-NNP
3956 [e]pantaπάνταall thingsAdj-NNP
1223 [e]di'δι'*by*Prep *Through*
846 [e]autouαὐτοῦhimPPro-GM3S
2532 [e]kaiκαὶandConj
1519 [e]eisεἰς*for*Prep *Into*
846 [e]autonαὐτὸνhimPPro-AM3S
2936 [e]ektistaiἔκτισταιhave been *created.*V-RIM/P-3S

(:17)
2532 [e]kaiκαὶAndConj
846 [e]autosαὐτὸςhePPro-NM3S
1510 [e]estinἔστινisV-PI-3S
4253 [e]proπρὸ*before*Prep *Before*
3956 [e]pantōnπάντωνall,Adj-GMP
2532 [e]kaiκαὶandConj
3588 [e]taτὰ–Art-NNP
3956 [e]pantaπάνταall thingsAdj-NNP
1722 [e]enἐνinPrep
846 [e]autōαὐτῷhimPPro-DM3S
4921 [e]synestēkenσυνέστηκεν*hold together.*V-RIA-3S

To Me, God is Invisible……..

(1)Who(Christ)……..Never created, formed or made anything….. Whether Visible or Invisible.

(Quote)
Son when begotten from the dead, to eternity to be at God's right side.

Thank you, Hand is not in Scripture.

Zech.6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the *counsel* of peace shall be Between them both.

Peace brother…..

July 1, 2013 at 2:04 am#349488

Participant

Hi abe,
So is that a “yes, Jesus was created before the world was created, and all things were created by God and through Jesus”? Or, do you see Christ and Jesus as different? Sorry, just trying to understand how you see things. Thanks Abe.

July 2, 2013 at 9:18 pm#349668

Participant

Quote (2besee @ June 30 2013,18:04)

Hi 2b+ All,

I believe the only thing not created through the Son, is the Son himself………Except Jesus………From the Dead.

Wisdom of God Beginning
Word of God God Said;

Kingdom of God*
Kingdom of the Son*

Acts7:49 Heaven is my Throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

Matt.5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: Neither by Jerusalem; for it is the City of the great King.

Gen.1:6 And God said, Let there be a *Firmament* in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7And God made the Firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so. 8And God called the *Firmament* Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Eze.1:1 Now it came about in the thirtieth year, on the fifth [day] of the fourth month, while I was by the river Chebar among the exiles, the heavens were * Opened* and I saw visions of God.

(Son)
Eze.1:26 And above the *Firmament* that was over their heads was the likeness of a Throne, as the appearance of a *sapphire stone:* and upon the likeness of the Throne was the likeness as the appearance of a Man above upon it.

(God)
Rev.4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a Door [was] Opened in Heaven: and the first voice which I heard [was] as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a Throne was set In heaven, and [one] sat on the throne. 3And he that sat was to look upon like a *jasper* and a *sardine stone:* and [there was] a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. 4And round about the throne [were] four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Rev.21:18 And the building of the wall of it was [of] jasper*: and the city [was] pure gold, like unto clear glass. 19And the foundations of the wall of the city [were] garnished with all manner of precious stones. The First foundation [was] jasper;* the second, sapphire;* the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

Col.1:12 giving thanks unto the Father, who made us meet(qualify) to be partakers of the Inheritance of the Saints in Light;
13who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the Kingdom of the *Son* of his Love; 14in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins:

Matt.13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; But the tares are the children of the Wicked [one]; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the Devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of His Kingdom* all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then* shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father.* Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

1Cor.15:24 Then [cometh] the End, when he shall have delivered up the Kingdom* To God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that He is Excepted, which did put all things under him. 28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be Subject unto Him that put all things under him, that God may be all In all.

1Cor.15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God*; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

they shall gather out of His Kingdom*(Son) all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Do you believe Kingdom of the Son is the same as Kingdom of God?

Peace brothers.

July 2, 2013 at 11:41 pm#349673

Participant

Hi Abe,
The word = God said (God's spoken word) – is this what you mean? I agree.

And all things were created through the Son.

So wouldn't the Son be the Spirit of God.

Spirit gives birth to Spirit.

Genesis 1 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

I don't quite follow what you mean by this:

“….is the Son himself………Except Jesus………From the Dead.”

I will have to give the Kingdom of the son and the Kingdom of God more thought and get back (have run out of phone data nearly).

July 3, 2013 at 4:51 am#349706

Participant

Quote (2besee @ July 02 2013,15:41)

Hi Abe,
The word = God said (God's spoken word) – is this what you mean? I agree.

And all things were created through the Son.

So wouldn't the Son be the Spirit of God.

Spirit gives birth to Spirit.

I don't quite follow what you mean by this:

“….is the Son himself………Except Jesus………From the Dead.”

I will have to give the Kingdom of the son and the Kingdom of God more thought and get back (have run out of phone data nearly).

Hi 2b,

Anything created is through and into the Son. Jesus was born through Mary and also born from the dead.

Scripture says the Word was made flesh…. God is not a man.(Num.23:19)

Spirit does not have flesh and bones.(Lk.24:39) The Word was made flesh. No, the Word is not the Spirit.

Is.58:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD
21As for me, this [is] my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit* that [is] upon thee, and my words* which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

My spirit* that [is] upon thee, and my words* which I have put in thy mouth,

Scripture says God raised up Christ, Through the Power and the Glory of God. 2 of the 7 Spirits Of God.

(Quote)
So wouldn't the Son be the Spirit of God.

I believe this 100%.

That is the only way to have One Spirit.

Rom.8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

A Christian HAS to Believe in the Son of God. If anyone makes him God…….“He is none of His”.

Peace brother…….

July 3, 2013 at 7:29 am#349718

Participant

Abe, I'm hearing you.
Will get back as soon as I can.
Thanks.

July 3, 2013 at 3:40 pm#349754

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Abe……..Jesus' Kingdom is not the Fathers Kingdom, I believe that is what you are saying and i agree with that, Jesus said whosoever overcomes even as I have overcome shall sit with me in my kingdom even as i have overcome and sit with my Father in his Kingdom. Jesus' kingdom is a extension of the Kingdom of David over Israel, and will eventually extend to all the earth, and then be turned over to God the Father, after the thousand year Millennial reign of Jesus and the Saints.

At the end of Jesus rule , he will send forth the angels or messengers, to gather out of “HIS” Kingdom all that offend (prevent) and those doing iniquities, and cast them into a fire (intense Judgments) . Because there Worm (evil nature) didn't die under the rule of Jesus and the Saints.

Therefore he says, if thy right eye offend (prevent) you, cast it from you , for it is better you enter into the Kingdom of God with one eye, then to have two and be cast into the fire, where the “WORM” dies not and the time of their torment does not end If the Worm (evil nature) doesn't die neither does the torment.

He repeats this also about the hand and leg, So to me he is saying that Worm that works in people must die in order for the punishment and torment to cease, and if we get rid of the worm, that works in all of US, and remember (even Jacob was called a worm by God.) If we can with God's help put it to death, we will be spared that future fire of intense torment brought on by the Judgment of God. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

July 3, 2013 at 4:28 pm#349759

Participant

Gene,

I do not assume “Worm” means soul as the worm of the grave consumes dead flesh.

July 3, 2013 at 6:15 pm#349766

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 03 2013,07:40)

peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

Hi Gene,

(Quote)
Jesus' Kingdom is not the Fathers Kingdom, I believe that is what you are saying and i agree with that

Amen.

Col.1:12 giving thanks unto the Father, who made us meet(qualify) to be partakers of the Inheritance of the Saints in Light;(love)
13who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the Kingdom of the *Son* Of His Love;(light) 14in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins:

Matt.13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of His Kingdom* all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then* shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father.* Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

After* the Sons Kingdom is made Perfect.

43 Then* shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father.* Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Peace brother….

July 4, 2013 at 4:07 pm#349843

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Abe…….I agree with that.

Peace and love to you and yours…………………gene

July 5, 2013 at 2:07 am#349879