Continued discussion

[942767]

Quote (t8 @ June 16 2013,13:24)

Why can't God be talking to the one whom is his very own image and through whom he created the cosmos. Would that not be the obvious conclusion to draw even without looking into this in-depth?

Hi t8:

God did not tell us to whom he was speaking, but I say the angels, because man whom he  was in the process of creating is or appears to be a separate entity than the “us” that He was addressing.

And although the process is culminated in and through Jesus who as you say is “the express image of God's person, this process began from creation through those through whom God's Word came to man.  You say that he pre-existed in some form of sentient person, but I do not, and for sure he did not exist as a man.

 

Quote

Hbr 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,   Hbr 1:2   Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds.

He used angels, he used Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, the Pharoah, Joshua, all the judges, Samuel,  David, Solomon and the prophets to name a few people in the process of making man in His image.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[kerwin]

Quote (2besee @ June 15 2013,19:53)

Kerwin. Here is a couple of interesting posts from another poster here dated Nov 2012: Some things for you to think about: Quote I find it difficult to see the same old problem with John 1 and 1John 5:7. Even the later is in Italics people get all off the reservation about it. Does everyone here believe that God cannot control His own Words, even down to our generation? Did God not know how His Word would turn out in being translated into English? These two complement and agree with each other, (NO I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE TRINITY) Take this for an example, God created all thing by saying, by His Word, God spoke and it was so, God said let there be and it was etc. Can God lie? Why? Can He speak a lie or anything that is not truth? Why? God calls those thing that be not as though they were, meaning if God says that grass is blue, you need to look out the window because it will be blue and not green. He can not lie. Now look at this, Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. Notice that when he speaks a lie it is of his own and the father of it. If no truth is in him, he cannot tell the truth. If he does it is surrounded with lies. How about God? Can he speak a lie? Then if He can only speak truth, He speaks of His own and is the father of truth. Why is it so hard to believe that God's Word is God Himself? In the beginning, “God” period! His presents was all that was in the beginning.! Quote I have stated in the thread ” again abut the trinity” what I believe,but misunderstood so I will reluctantly state my position again. As stated above I am not convinced that there is 3 separate Gods. I do believe in John 1 and 1John 5:7 that complement each other and explain that while God is “ONE” I believe that God is Father, Word, and Holy Spirit as ONE. I believe man is comprised as spirit, soul, and body. WE ARE CREATED IN GOD'S IMAGE AND LIKENESS! We may not understand this, and think it has something to do with trinity doctrine, but it is different. When you can understand that when you die your body is lifeless, but you are not, then you can start to see this. You are not your body, much is stated in the bible about our soul and spirit as well as the body. Question for you. Have you ever had a talk with yourself? Needing to do this or that and had to talk yourself into or out of it? If so, who were you talking to? The scriptures talk about the flesh lusts against the spirit and the spirit lusts against the flesh. If you take the time to investigate this about man, then you can better understand this about God. To all: I have been through this for years and I am convinced, (by much studying) that this is truth weather you believe in it or not I don't think I can change unless God shows me different through His Word. https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….5;st=40

2beesee,

I have already thought about some of these points. God chooses to allow corrupt words to be inserted into the various versions as the many books that claim to be Scripture and are not as well as mistranslated parts of Scripture all throughout time attest. The question is why does he allow these things to happen? One reason is too many put their trust in what is written but not the author. The second is God is a living God and he is the one that teaches you. The third is that we have many tools to seek the truth and so are more accountable than those that do not. You may come up with more.

[kerwin]

Quote (t8 @ June 16 2013,08:24)

Why can't God be talking to the one whom is his very own image and through whom he created the cosmos. Would that not be the obvious conclusion to draw even without looking into this in-depth?

T8,

All the angels were present and they are his court.

[abe]

Quote (kerwin @ June 15 2013,19:58)

Quote (t8 @ June 16 2013,08:24) Why can't God be talking to the one whom is his very own image and through whom he created the cosmos. Would that not be the obvious conclusion to draw even without looking into this in-depth? T8, All the angels were present and they are his court.

Hi Kerwin,

Where in Scripture does it say, God created all things through his Angels?

15 who is the IMAGE of the Invisible God, the First Born of all CREATION; 16for IN him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created THROUGH him, and unto(into) him;

and IN him all things consist.

17 he is BEFORE All things, and IN him All things consist.

The angels had to be created Through the Son and Into Him.

And IN him ALL things consist.

Peace brother…

[GeneBalthrop]

Abe…….Check out the word “through” you will find is should be rendered because of him or for him. Jesus is GOD the fathers finished workman ship for all mankind and every thing physically created was for mankind that is why it says, all things are under the foot of man and because he said all thing are under the foot of man there is nothing that is not under man, Jesus is the first to achieve that goal, the first of many. Jesus is a representation of what God has planned for us all. IMO

Peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene

[abe]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 16 2013,00:14)

Abe…….Check out the word “through” you will find is should be rendered because of him or for him. Jesus is GOD the fathers finished workman ship for all mankind and every thing physically created was for mankind that is why it says, all things are under the foot of man and because he said all thing are under the foot of man there is nothing that is not under man, Jesus is the first to achieve that goal, the first of many. Jesus is a representation of what God has planned for us all. IMO Peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene

Hi Gene,

4241 [e]EprepenἜπρεπενit was fittingV-IIA-3S
1063 [e]garγὰρindeedConj
846 [e]autōαὐτῷto him,PPro-DM3S
1223 [e]di'δι'forPrep                           *Through*
3739 [e]honὃνwhom [are]RelPro-AMS
3588 [e]taτὰ–Art-NNP
3956 [e]pantaπάνταall things,Adj-NNP
2532 [e]kaiκαὶandConj
1223 [e]di'δι'byPrep                           *Through*
3739 [e]houοὗwhom [are]RelPro-GMS
3588 [e]taτὰ–Art-NNP
3956 [e]pantaπάνταall things,Adj-NNP
4183 [e]pollousπολλοὺςmanyAdj-AMP
5207 [e]huiousυἱοὺςsonsN-AMP
1519 [e]eisεἰςtoPrep
1391 [e]doxanδόξανgloryN-AFS
71 [e]agagontaἀγαγόνταhaving brought,V-APA-AMS
3588 [e]tonτὸνtheArt-AMS
747 [e]archēgonἀρχηγὸνauthorN-AMS
3588 [e]tēsτῆςof theArt-GFS
4991 [e]sōtēriasσωτηρίαςsalvationN-GFS
846 [e]autōnαὐτῶνof them,PPro-GM3P   *
1223 [e]diaδιὰthroughPrep                   *Through*    
3804 [e]pathēmatōnπαθημάτωνsufferings,N-GNP
5048 [e]teleiōsaiτελειῶσαιto make perfect.V-ANA

846 [e]autōnαὐτῶνof them,PPro-GM3P

Sons.

How could Jesus save Abraham?  

Heb.2:16   For verily not to angels doth he give help, but he giveth help to the          seed of Abraham.(Christ)

Christ is in ALL.

Jesus was not in ALL.

Heb.3:1   Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession;

:25   “It is   YOU   who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, AND IN YOUR       SEED(Christ)      ALL THE FAMILIES OF THE EARTH SHALL BE BLESSED.' 26″For you first, God raised up His Servant and sent Him to bless you by turning every one [of you] from your wicked ways.”

Christ is still in ALL.

God raised up His Servant and sent Him to bless you.

Jn.14:16   “I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17[that is] the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, [but] you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

18″I will not leave you as orphans;    I    will come to you.

Different Parts of the Body of Christ.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Zech.4:6   And he answered, and spoke to me, saying: This is the Word of the Lord to Zorobabel, saying: Not with an army, nor by might, but by my     SPIRIT,    saith the Lord of hosts.

I have to go to work.

Peace brother…

[2besee]

Quote

I have already thought about some of these points. God chooses to allow corrupt words to be inserted into the various versions as the many books that claim to be Scripture and are not as well as mistranslated parts of Scripture all throughout time attest. The question is why does he allow these things to happen? One reason is too many put their trust in what is written but not the author. The second is God is a living God and he is the one that teaches you. The third is that we have many tools to seek the truth and so are more accountable than those that do not. You may come up with more.

Kerwin,
I have never been a huge fan of Paul's though God has given me some words of His, some I love. I learnt though that most people here will use that as a weapon against me, though others elsewhere never do – its only here. (you watch them now! If they are reading).

The Paul epistles are not all attributed to Paul, and modern day scholars agree that some may be forgeries deliberately made to support latter beliefs.

The undisputed genuine epistles are:

1 Thes
Philippians
Philemon
1Corinthians
Galatians
2Corinthian
Romans

Those belived to be speudepigrapic (forgeries) by scholars are:

1 Timothy
2 Timothy
Titus
Ephesians
Collosians
2 Thessalonians.

source of information is wikipedia.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_epistles

[terraricca]

Quote (2besee @ June 17 2013,04:21)

Quote I have already thought about some of these points. God chooses to allow corrupt words to be inserted into the various versions as the many books that claim to be Scripture and are not as well as mistranslated parts of Scripture all throughout time attest. The question is why does he allow these things to happen? One reason is too many put their trust in what is written but not the author. The second is God is a living God and he is the one that teaches you. The third is that we have many tools to seek the truth and so are more accountable than those that do not. You may come up with more. Kerwin, I have never been a huge fan of Paul's though God has given me some words of His, some I love. I learnt though that most people here will use that as a weapon against me, though others elsewhere never do – its only here. (you watch them now! If they are reading). The Paul epistles are not all attributed to Paul, and modern scholars agree that some are forgeries, even possibly deliberately altered. The undisputed genuine epistles are: 1 Thes Philippians Philemon 1Corinthians Galatians 2Corinthian Romans Those belived to be speudepigrapic (forgeries) by scholars are: 1 Timothy 2 Timothy Titus Ephesians Collosians 2 Thessalonians. source of information is wikipedia. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_epistles

2bee

Quote

Those belived to be speudepigrapic (forgeries) by scholars are: 1 Timothy 2 Timothy Titus Ephesians Collosians 2 Thessalonians.

but what do you think about it are they forgeries

and if so how do you know

if not why did you even mention it

[2besee]

Quote

The question is why does he allow these things to happen? One reason is too many put their trust in what is written but not the author. The second is God is a living God and he is the one that teaches you. The third is that we have many tools to seek the truth and so are more accountable than those that do not. You may come up with more.

I completely agree.

[2besee]

Terraricca,

Quote the category rules:

“Group Discussions. Discussions among like-minded members only. No opposition. Invited members could be based on belief in a certain doctrine.”

You would only be here to accuse rather than to discuss, Terrarica..correct?

If you are interested, then click on the link provided regarding the epistles.

[kerwin]

Quote (2besee @ June 17 2013,04:21)

Quote I have already thought about some of these points. God chooses to allow corrupt words to be inserted into the various versions as the many books that claim to be Scripture and are not as well as mistranslated parts of Scripture all throughout time attest. The question is why does he allow these things to happen? One reason is too many put their trust in what is written but not the author. The second is God is a living God and he is the one that teaches you. The third is that we have many tools to seek the truth and so are more accountable than those that do not. You may come up with more. Kerwin, I have never been a huge fan of Paul's though God has given me some words of His, some I love. I learnt though that most people here will use that as a weapon against me, though others elsewhere never do – its only here. (you watch them now! If they are reading). The Paul epistles are not all attributed to Paul, and modern day scholars agree that some may be forgeries deliberately made to support latter beliefs. The undisputed genuine epistles are: 1 Thes Philippians Philemon 1Corinthians Galatians 2Corinthian Romans Those belived to be speudepigrapic (forgeries) by scholars are: 1 Timothy 2 Timothy Titus Ephesians Collosians 2 Thessalonians. source of information is wikipedia. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_epistles

2beesee,

I have heard that opinion but in testing their spirit they come off as being true. I know of passages that have either been inserted or removed from some manuscripts and certain translations from Koin Greek/Hebrew to English have mistranslations.

[terraricca]

Quote (2besee @ June 17 2013,05:47)

Terraricca, Quote the category rules: “Group Discussions. Discussions among like-minded members only. No opposition. Invited members could be based on belief in a certain doctrine.” You would only be here to accuse rather than to discuss, Terrarica..correct? If you are interested, then click on the link provided regarding the epistles.

ok,I leave those discussions to the ones that it may be interested in it ,it is your time ,

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (abe @ June 17 2013,05:24)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 16 2013,00:14) Abe…….Check out the word “through” you will find is should be rendered because of him or for him. Jesus is GOD the fathers finished workman ship for all mankind and every thing physically created was for mankind that is why it says, all things are under the foot of man and because he said all thing are under the foot of man there is nothing that is not under man, Jesus is the first to achieve that goal, the first of many. Jesus is a representation of what God has planned for us all. IMO Peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene Hi Gene, 4241 [e]EprepenἜπρεπενit was fittingV-IIA-3S 1063 [e]garγὰρindeedConj 846 [e]autōαὐτῷto him,PPro-DM3S 1223 [e]di'δι'forPrep                           *Through* 3739 [e]honὃνwhom [are]RelPro-AMS 3588 [e]taτὰ–Art-NNP 3956 [e]pantaπάνταall things,Adj-NNP 2532 [e]kaiκαὶandConj 1223 [e]di'δι'byPrep                           *Through* 3739 [e]houοὗwhom [are]RelPro-GMS 3588 [e]taτὰ–Art-NNP 3956 [e]pantaπάνταall things,Adj-NNP 4183 [e]pollousπολλοὺςmanyAdj-AMP 5207 [e]huiousυἱοὺςsonsN-AMP 1519 [e]eisεἰςtoPrep 1391 [e]doxanδόξανgloryN-AFS 71 [e]agagontaἀγαγόνταhaving brought,V-APA-AMS 3588 [e]tonτὸνtheArt-AMS 747 [e]archēgonἀρχηγὸνauthorN-AMS 3588 [e]tēsτῆςof theArt-GFS 4991 [e]sōtēriasσωτηρίαςsalvationN-GFS 846 [e]autōnαὐτῶνof them,PPro-GM3P   * 1223 [e]diaδιὰthroughPrep                   *Through*     3804 [e]pathēmatōnπαθημάτωνsufferings,N-GNP 5048 [e]teleiōsaiτελειῶσαιto make perfect.V-ANA 846 [e]autōnαὐτῶνof them,PPro-GM3P Sons. How could Jesus save Abraham?   Heb.2:16   For verily not to angels doth he give help, but he giveth help to the          seed of Abraham.(Christ) Christ is in ALL. Jesus was not in ALL. Heb.3:1   Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession; :25   “It is   YOU   who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, AND IN YOUR       SEED(Christ)      ALL THE FAMILIES OF THE EARTH SHALL BE BLESSED.' 26″For you first, God raised up His Servant and sent Him to bless you by turning every one [of you] from your wicked ways.” Christ is still in ALL. God raised up His Servant and sent Him to bless you. Jn.14:16   “I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17[that is] the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, [but] you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. 18″I will not leave you as orphans;    I    will come to you. Different Parts of the Body of Christ. Douay-Rheims Bible Zech.4:6   And he answered, and spoke to me, saying: This is the Word of the Lord to Zorobabel, saying: Not with an army, nor by might, but by my     SPIRIT,    saith the Lord of hosts. I have to go to work. Peace brother…

Abe……The word used there is the Greek word (dee-ah) here is what strongs says about it.

dee-ah

A primary denoting a channel as an act; through ( in very wide applications, local, causal or occasional ). in composition it remains the same import:-after, always, among, at, to avoid, because of (that) , briefly, by, for (cause)……fore, from, in, by occasion of, of by reason of , for sake, that, thereby, x through, through (-out), to, wherefore, with (-in). In composition it remains the same general import.

Abe check it out further brother.

Peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Abe…….I do believe God created every thing through the (CHRISTOS) or his spirits , but not through Jesus the man though. I think we are on the same page brother.

Peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene

[abe]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 17 2013,12:10)

Abe…….I do believe God created every thing through the (CHRISTOS) or his spirits , but not through Jesus the man though. I think we are on the same page brother. Peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene

Hi Gene,

Who is the image of the invisible God?

Col.1:15 He (Son) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, [both] in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19For it was the [Father's] good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, , whether things on earth or things in heaven.

The Son is the Firstborn from the Dead.

Col.1:18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

What do you believe is the difference between Christ and Jesus?

Peace brother..

[2besee]

Hi kerwin,
The only problem that I have with Paul is the “law” part, mainly. I have debated people in the past who stated that the law (the ten commandments) were finished, and when I show them that Jesus never said that, they quoted Paul. But then again, Peter did say that the ignorant and the unstable will twist Paul's words, as they do the other scriptures, and I think that is what it is.
I'll leave it there. No need to further discuss it

[GeneBalthrop]

2besee…….Paul was not saying we should not keep the commandments of God, What he was talking about is “HOW” we Keep them, is it by, the way “LAW WORKS” Through forced compliance, as all laws work that way, or is it by the Spirit?. Paul tells us a Law (forced compliance) generating a fearful compliance can never make a person right in there Heart, no more than all of our speed laws and enforcers of it, can make a person a safe driver. Law is only Law when it is enforced, and the “fear” of the penalty for breaking it “caused” people to obey it, but that never makes a person willingly obedient to it. Therefore he says “ by works of Law (the “WAY” Law “WORKS”  no flesh shall be “justified” (made right in the eyes of God) before God.  and again, Brethren you have not come to that mountain to Fear “AS THEY DID” .  Ex 20:20

What Paul was talking about had nothing to do with should we keep the commandments of God , but the “WAY” we Keep them, is it by the way LAW “WORKS” of by the Spirit of the Living God “working” in our hearts .  

hope this helps brother.

peace and love to you and your…………………………….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (abe @ June 18 2013,08:08)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 17 2013,12:10) Abe…….I do believe God created every thing through the (CHRISTOS) or his spirits , but not through Jesus the man though. I think we are on the same page brother. Peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene Hi Gene, Who is the image of the invisible God? Col.1:15   He   (Son)  is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, [both] in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19For it was the [Father's] good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, , whether things on earth or things in heaven. The Son is the Firstborn from the Dead. Col.1:18   He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. What do you believe is the difference between Christ and Jesus? Peace brother..

Abe……..Yes Jesus the man is the finished prototype of all mankind and God has created everything in existence for man, it plainly says in Hebrews, that “ALL” things are beneath the foot of man, not just Jesus but man in a general sense. And it goes on to say ” in that he (GOD) having put ” ALL” thing under his (mankind's) feet there is therefore “nothing” that is not under his (mankind's ) foot. Jesus is the first to achieve that goal GOD has in mind for us all. IMO

GOD the father also said he created everything by himself and also alone , he takes full credit for all creation alone. He also said he gives his glory to no man and that includes Jesus who is a son of man just like us.

The problem is with the Trinitarians use of the Greek words “through” and “by” those words have many other meanings , and if we are to try to fit all scripture together regarding that subject of creation without contradictions, we must modify that scripture to its ailment of the Old Testament , GOD did not create anything through The man Jesus, now if we say, he did it though the CHRISTO'S ( anointing SPIRIT),  then it might work there. But we can not tie the man Jesus as the one God did it through, as all Trinitarians and Preextences do. IM

Jesus was indeed the full “IMAGE” of the living GOD, but an IMAGE is not the real thing it is an IMAGE or a Reflection of the REAL THING. If you look in a mirror that image in that mirror may be of you but it is still not you, because you are not “in” the mirror right? Could you look at that Mirror and say it was you no because you are outside of that mirror. So Jesus as the MIRROR was reflecting “IMAGE” OF GOD,  the FATHER to Us.  This is the way I understand it brother.

Peace and love to you and yours………………gene

[abe]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 18 2013,14:28)

Quote (abe @ June 18 2013,08:08) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 17 2013,12:10) Abe…….I do believe God created every thing through the (CHRISTOS) or his spirits , but not through Jesus the man though. I think we are on the same page brother. Peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene Hi Gene, Who is the image of the invisible God? Col.1:15   He   (Son)  is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, [both] in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19For it was the [Father's] good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, , whether things on earth or things in heaven. The Son is the Firstborn from the Dead. Col.1:18   He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. What do you believe is the difference between Christ and Jesus? Peace brother.. Abe……..Yes Jesus the man is the finished prototype of all mankind and God has created everything in existence for man, it plainly says in Hebrews, that “ALL” things are beneath the foot of man, not just Jesus but man in a general sense. And it goes on to say ” in that he (GOD) having put ” ALL” thing under his (mankind's) feet there is therefore “nothing” that is not under his (mankind's ) foot. Jesus is the first to achieve that goal GOD has in mind for us all. IMO GOD the father also said he created everything by himself and also alone , he takes full credit for all creation alone. He also said he gives his glory to no man and that includes Jesus who is a son of man just like us. The problem is with the Trinitarians use of the Greek words “through” and “by” those words have many other meanings , and if we are to try to fit all scripture together regarding that subject of creation without contradictions, we must modify that scripture to its ailment of the Old Testament , GOD did not create anything through The man Jesus, now if we say, he did it though the CHRISTO'S ( anointing SPIRIT),  then it might work there. But we can not tie the man Jesus as the one God did it through, as all Trinitarians and Preextences do. IM Jesus was indeed the full “IMAGE” of the living GOD, but an IMAGE is not the real thing it is an IMAGE or a Reflection of the REAL THING. If you look in a mirror that image in that mirror may be of you but it is still not you, because you are not “in” the mirror right? Could you look at that Mirror and say it was you no because you are outside of that mirror. So Jesus as the MIRROR was reflecting “IMAGE” OF GOD,  the FATHER to Us.  This is the way I understand it brother. Peace and love to you and yours………………gene

Hi Gene,

Archangel.

Arch

archó: to rule, to begin
Original Word: ἄρχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: archó
Phonetic Spelling: (ar'-kho)
Short Definition: I reign, rule
Definition: I reign, rule.

Word Origin
a prim. verb
Definition
to rule, to begin
NASB Translation
began (62), begin (7), beginning (8), begins (2), begun (1), proceed (1), rule (1), rulers (1), starting (2).

began (62), begin (7), beginning (8), begins (2), begun (1),

Do you think Beginning is the proper word to use? Your thoughts on this?

Peace brother….

[2besee]

Gene, Abe, and all, I am sorry – been a bit distracted lately, and will get back to this soon.

[Author]

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