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@admin Is there anyway you can force Pretender (aka Proclaimer) to answer the Hot Seat question in the previous post? It’s been almost two months since he’s answered a single question on our Hot Seat thread.
Thanks in advance.
I’m also wondering how the Recent Topics list is compiled…
Why would there be 3 topics on the “Recent” list that haven’t had activity in well over a week – while others that have had activity within the last few minutes are NOT on the list? Seems awful strange to me.
I assume they are in the order that the topics were created. But wouldn’t it be better if that list showed the most recent topics that have actually seen some activity?
Hi Mike.
Please send him the link to your answer to his question, followed by the link to your new question. It can be hard navigating through lots of posts when you jump the gun with lots of questions. Thanks. Pretty sure that will sort it out.
Admin: Hi Mike.
Please send him the link to your answer to his question, followed by the link to your new question. It can be hard navigating through lots of posts when you jump the gun with lots of questions. Thanks. Pretty sure that will sort it out.
Yes, I thought of that myself, because I too understand how difficult it can be to navigate through an average of 3.2 new posts a day from the 4 active members on Heaven Net. The problem is that the site’s link system does not work. For example, I just now copied the link to your post that I’m currently responding to, and pasted it here. I even took a screenshot of it so you can see it is a link to post #931903…
Can you see that the following is supposed to be a link to your particular post – the one right above this one? Now do me a favor and click on the link – and see if it takes you to post #931903. Because the link takes me to the OP of this thread – not to post #931903.
https://heavennet.net/forums/topic/conspiracy-theories-myths-or-truth/page/99/#post-931903
Well? Did you click on it? Did the link take you to your post right above this one? Or to the OP of the thread? And the same happened when I tried to link particular posts to Pretender so he could answer my question.
So after realizing that I was unable to send Pretender a link to the particular posts where I answered his question and asked my own, I sent him multiple PMs, explaining in great detail exactly where he could find both my answer to his question, and my new question that he is obligated by the rules of this forum to answer.
Now, you wouldn’t think it would be very hard for him to those two posts even without my explicit instructions – since they were the last two posts on private thread for him and me… a thread that has only seen 3 new posts in the last month! Here’s a screenshot of that page…
I’m baffled as to why Pretender wouldn’t just quickly check for any new activity on that private thread on his own to see if there were new answers/questions – without me even having to spell it out for him, painstakingly navigate him right to the last two posts on the thread, and send him multiple PMs practically begging him to answer a question… something he hasn’t done there in almost 2 months.
I’m also baffled as to why you, @admin , would answer my request for help in this thread, and not answer my request for help in the actual Hot Seat thread where the posts in question actually are – immediately above my request to you for help that I posted yesterday.
See, my thinking is that if you had responded to the request for help that I posted in the Hot Seat private thread instead of my request for help in the Conspiracy thread, then you wouldn’t have to be telling ME to send Pretender a link right now, because you could see for yourself that the posts in question were right there above my request for help, and you – as the admin of the site – could have sent your own PM to Pretender, telling him exactly where to find those two posts, and demanding that he either answer the question or be blocked.
@admin Is there a reason why you chose to address my request in the Conspiracy thread and no in the Hot Seat private thread that the request actually concerns? Because I know as a past moderator of this site, you were notified of BOTH requests yesterday. Would you mind telling me why you responded to the one in the Conspiracy thread, but not to the one in the private thread that the request actually concerns? It’s almost as if you were conspiring with Pretender to help him stall even longer and continue to avoid my question. 🤔🤔At any rate, your link system doesn’t work, and so I am unable to link Pretender to the actual posts in question as you suggested. Perhaps you could figure out a way to either do that – or to just navigate Pretender to a couple of posts at the very end of our private thread – because he seems unable to grasp the concept that the first place to look for new questions/answers in our PRIVATE discussion would be at the very bottom of our PRIVATE thread.
Please advise further. Thanks @admin
@admin Now that is very interesting. After posting the link to your post, it actually did take me right to your post. So then I re-posted that same exact link a second time in my very next post, and THE SAME LINK doesn’t take me to your comment – but instead to the OP of this thread.
How can that be? Curiouser and curiouser. 🤯
Let’s try it with the links you are requesting I send to Pretender…
Private thread for Mike and Proclaimer only: “The Bible vs Scientism”
Nope. The post above this one is the link to the post where I answered Pretender’s question in the Hot Seat thread. It doesn’t take me to that answer, but to the OP of the thread. Let me try the link to where I asked my last question…
Private thread for Mike and Proclaimer only: “The Bible vs Scientism”
Nope. That one takes me to the OP of the Hot Seat private thread too.
Anyway, hopefully now you are able to see that I can’t do what you ask, and send Pretender a link to the actual posts. I have no idea why one time the link actually took me to the specific post, but all other times it takes me to the OPs of the threads.
@admin Maybe you can sort this out. In post #931905 above, the link takes me to the actual post I linked. But in post #931906, the SAME EXACT LINK takes me to the OP of this thread.And then two times after that (Post #931910 and Post #9319110), the links to two specific posts both take me instead to the OP of the Hot Seat private thread.
Anyway, while you are figuring this all out, please don’t forget to let Pretender know that the answer to his question and my new question are at the bottom of our private thread – exactly where one would expect to find them – especially after being told countless times that they were there. Thanks again for all your help.
This is really quite the mystery, @admin
Here is the link I posted in #931905 – before I hit “Submit”…
And this is the link I posted in #931906 – before I hit “Submit”…
They are identical links, but the link in #931905 actually takes to you the post that is linked, while the SAME EXACT link in #931906 takes you to the OP of this thread. I posted the same link about 30 seconds after posting it the first time, and it takes you somewhere different.
Why would that be? Anyway, once again, let Pretender know where to find his answer and question, and remind him that he is not allowed to post anything else anywhere else on the site until that question is answered. Thanks.
Hi Mike,
ME: BY THE WAY, ON PAGE 93 (originally by mistake, I said on page 92 )
APRIL 24, 2022 AT 11:38 AM #931343
SO HERE IT IS AGAIN!
I ASKED YOU:
FIND A SCRIPTURE THAT MAKES USE OF THE WORDS
TOHU VA BOHU AND IT IS NOT A REFERENCE TO
CONFUSION, CHAOS, WASTE, AND A NEGATIVE STATE OR REFERENCE!
SO, ARE YOU STILL SEARCHING?
You: I already addressed it in great detail, using YOUR OWN source!
As far as I know, there are no scriptures mentioned specifically that make use of
TOHU VA BOHU AND IT IS NOT A REFERENCE TO A CHAOS, WASTE, AND A NEGATIVE STATE OR REFERENCE!
SO PLEASE PRODUCE THE PARTICULAR SCRIPTURE!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Okay Carmel, I just went through every single use of each word in scripture. Tohu can be translated as empty/void/nothingness in each place it is used in scripture.
Bohu can be translated empty/void/nothingness in each place too. Of course I’m sure you’ll want to see them, right? Okay, since I have a holiday from work and nothing else to do, here we go…
Bohu
Gen 1:2… And the earth was without form, and empty/void H922
Isa 34:11… the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness/nothingness. H922
Jer 4:23… I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and empty/void H922
Tohu
Gen 1:2… And the earth was empty/void H8414
Deu 32:10… He found him in a desert land, and in the empty/void H8414 howling wilderness
1Sa 12:21… And turn ye not aside: for then should ye go after empty/void H8414 things, which cannot profit nor deliver; for they are empty/void/nothing. H8414
Job 6:18… The paths of their way are turned aside; they go to nothingness/emptiness, H8414 and perish.
Job 12:24… and causeth them to wander in an empty/void place H8414 where there is no way.
Job 26:7… He stretcheth out the north over the empty place/void place H8414
Psa 107:40… and causeth them to wander in an empty place/void place H8414 where there is no way.
Isa 24:10… The city of emptiness/nothingness H8414 is broken down: every house is shut up, that no man may come in.
Isa 29:21… and turn aside the just for a thing of nothingness/an empty thing. H8414
Isa 34:11… the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of nothingness/emptiness, H8414 and the stones of emptiness.
Isa 40:17… All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and emptiness/nothing. H8414
Isa 40:23… That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as nothing/emptiness. H8414
Isa 41:29… Behold, they are all vanity; their works are nothing: their molten images are wind and nothingness/emptiness. H8414
Isa 44:9… They that make a graven image are all of them nothing/empty H8414
Isa 45:18… For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not for nothing/to be empty, H8414 he formed it to be inhabited
Isa 45:19… I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me for naught/nothing: H8414
Isa 49:4… Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought/nothing, H8414 and in vain
Isa 59:4… None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in naught/empty things, H8414 and speak lies
Jer 4:23… I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was empty/void, H8414 and void
That’s all of them. The only three verses that use both of them together are…
Gen 1:2… And the earth was empty/void H8414, and empty/void H922
Isa 34:11… the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of emptiness/nothingness H8414 and the stones of emptiness/nothingness. H922
Jer 4:23… I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was empty/void, H8414 and empty/void H922
So since there are only three verses in the entire Bible that use both words, your challenge…
Carmel: FIND A SCRIPTURE THAT MAKES USE OF THE WORDS
TOHU VA BOHU AND IT IS NOT A REFERENCE TO
CONFUSION, CHAOS, WASTE, AND A NEGATIVE STATE OR REFERENCE!
… is rather misleading. And since none of the three actually refer to any of the negative words you used, but refer to something in an empty and void state, your claim has been solidly refuted.
There is absolutely nothing in Jer 4:23 that would even come close to even hinting at an indication that the earth in Gen 1:2 was an earth that God had made, and that his lowly subordinate Satan was able to completely destroy by overpowering the God who made, not only that earth, but the very one you say was able to overpower God and destroy it.
DEBUNKED!
Btw Carmel, you’ve never told me how a creature that God created was able to overpower the God who made him, and destroy the “first earth”. How did that happen? Can Satan overpower God and destroy this current earth too? Please explain how the clay is able to completely destroy the work of the Potter.
And as a side note… I absolutely loved it that one of the verses in my search just happened to be this one…
Isa 45:18… For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not to be empty, H8414 he formed it to be inhabited…
1. Tell me once again how Yahweh did 4 different things to the earth (formed, made, established, created).
2. Explain to us which particular actions constituted “forming” it, which particular actions constituted “making” it, which particular actions constituted “establishing” it, and which particular actions constituted “creating” it. Or does this verse talk about FOUR DIFFERENT earths? 🤣
3. Tell us if it makes sense for TOHU to be translated as “empty” in this verse, seeing how it is directly contrasted with “inhabited” (not empty, but inhabited). Works great, right? Does it work with your words? “Not chaos, but inhabited.” Nope. “Not confusion, but inhabited.” Nope. “Not a negative state, but inhabited.” Nope.
Okay dude, your turn to answer the second to the last post on the previous page… in a very DIRECT and HONEST manner. Feel free to answer the last post on the previous page too, if you have time. Thanks.
Hi Mike,
You: 1. The very word, notion, and concept of days was created by God and based solely on the light/dark-sun/earth cycles…ie:
24 hour periods on the earth. The word “days” has no other meaning.
ME: ESTABLISHED AFTER THE SUN WAS CREATED Genesis 1:16.
DIVINE DAY 4 NOT HUMAN DAYS,
It’s not like God has His own form of “days” in heaven.
YES MIKE I’M AFRAID!
GOD’S OWN DAYS ARE NOT LIKE HUMAN DAYS! BUT ANALOGOUS.
ESPECIALLY Genesis 1:3-31!
THE PHRASE “EVENING AND MORNING” IS NOT EQUIVALENT TO ONE DAY, EXCEPT FROM GOD’S PERSPECTIVE IN RELATION TO Genesis 1:3-31
Read: Leviticus 23:32 It is a sabbath of rest, and you shell afflict your souls beginning on the ninth day of the month:
from evening until evening you shall celebrate your sabbaths.
THE ABOVE DAY, from evening to evening, MENTIONED BY GOD HIMSELF IS IN RELATION TO HUMAN DAYS WHICH COMMENCED IN Genesis 2:5
NOW I HAVE TO KEEP REMINDING YOU I’M AFRAID! READ PLEASE:
Me: On the seventh day, according to Exodus 31:17, God “rested and was refreshed.” Why would an omnipotent and inexhaustible God need to be “refreshed”?
It’s the same Hebrew word used for getting your breath back after running a long race (Ex. 23:2; 2 Sam. 16:14). The reason it is not improper to say that God was refreshed is the same reason it’s not improper to say that God breathes, hovers, is like a potter, gardens, searches, asks questions, and comes down, THE LIST IS ENDLESS!
all images of God used in Genesis.
God’s revelation to us is analogical NO?
(neither entirely identical nor entirely dissimilar) and anthropomorphic (accommodated and communicated from our perspective in terms we can understand).
So when God refers to “days,” does he want us to mentally substitute the word “eons” or “ages”? No.
Does he want us to think of precise units of time, marked by 24 exact hours as the earth makes a rotation on its axis? No.
Does he want us to think of the Hebrew workday? Yes, AS YOU SAID,
BUT in an analogical and anthropomorphic sense. Just as the “seventh day” makes us think of an ordinary calendar day
(even though it isn’t technically a 24-hour period),
so the other “six days” are meant to be read in the same way.NO?
You: So when God says He did something in six days, for example, then those six days MUST be six HUMAN/EARTH/SUN days – because there simply doesn’t exist any other form or definition of “days”.
FINE! BUT ONLY FROM GENESIS 2:5 ONWARD THOUGH!
2. God directly and unequivocally EQUATED the six days during which
He made the earth WITH the six literal HUMAN/EARTH/SUN days that we are to work before taking a day off.
AS EXPLAINED ABOVE!
You: Carmel, can you to refute the two statements above WITHOUT pretending that the spirit showed you that when God said “six days”, God didn’t really mean “six days”,
like you’ve already done…
You think you can just insert “from Yahweh’s perspective” and make everything okay?
Carmel: DEFINITELY, Mike,
IN A PARTICULAR WAY IN RELATION TO MY CLAIM AS A REFERENCE TO Micah 7:11 as explained in my post, which you never answered yet, and also as explained above in relation to Genesis 1:3-31. in comparison to Genesis 2:5.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel: ESTABLISHED AFTER THE SUN WAS CREATED Genesis 1:16.
Incorrect. Days were created when God created light and separated the light from darkness – on the FIRST day.
Carmel: FINE! BUT ONLY FROM GENESIS 2:5 ONWARD THOUGH!
Incorrect. Days were days since the very first day – before the creation of the sun, and before Gen 2:5.
There is only ONE meaning of “days” in the entire scriptures – and that meaning is based on the LITERAL 24-hour dark/light cycle that God created on the very first day.
So when God says He created in six days, that’s exactly what God means. There is no other definition of “days” under heaven – only the dark/light cycles on the earth.
Carmel: On the seventh day, according to Exodus 31:17, God “rested and was refreshed.” Why would an omnipotent and inexhaustible God need to be “refreshed”?
One couldn’t honestly and rationally make the argument, “Well, God said He rested, therefore the days of creation weren’t real days”, could they?
Is that what you’re trying to do?
The Moon is a sphere. The Sun is a sphere. Mercury is a sphere. Venus is a sphere. Mars is a sphere. Jupiter is a sphere….so is Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and loads of moons of those planets.
The obvious question may seem to be why is the Earth not also a sphere when everything else is. But I have an even more obvious question. What stops rocks, craters, etc falling off the ‘bottom’ of the Moon ? What prevents gas and stuff falling off the bottom of the Sun ? Why don’t Saturn’s rings fall off ? I mean…they are not attached to the planet. Why don’t the rocks on the bottom of Mars fall off ?Source: Official Flat Earth & Globe Discussion – Facebook
Flat Earthers, why don’t you go on this trip during summer, and once you’re there you can experience the midnight sun and try and figure out how it’s possible on a flat Earth.
Sign up here Mike.
https://www.expeditioncruisespecialists.com/destinations/antarctica/across-antarctic-cruise
The Antarctic treaty says that anyone can come and explore the continent for whatever scientific purpose. Just do it peacefully. Flat earthers interpret that as nobody is allowed to go there and they’ll shoot you on site… or something.
Hi Mike
You
Carmel: ESTABLISHED AFTER THE SUN WAS CREATED Genesis 1:16.
Incorrect. Days were created when God created light and separated the light from darkness – on the FIRST day.Carmel: FINE! BUT ONLY FROM GENESIS 2:5 ONWARD THOUGH!
Incorrect. Days were days since the very first day – before the creation of the sun, and before Gen 2:5.There is only ONE meaning of “days” in the entire scriptures – and that meaning is based on the LITERAL 24-hour dark/light cycle that God created on the very first day.
So when God says He created in six days, that’s exactly what God means. There is no other definition of “days” under heaven – only the dark/light cycles on the earth.
Me
👍
Hi Mike
ME: THE HEAVEN AND EARTH, CREATED IN GENESIS 1:1 BY GOD THE FATHER ALL SPIRITUAL AS MUCH AS PHYSICAL; PERFECT!
and THE EARTH AND HEAVEN, MADE IN GENESIS 1:3-31 BY “THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, ALL PHYSICAL AS MUCH AS SPIRITUAL; VERY GOOD!
You: Okay, I see the claim.
Me: YOU SEE NOTHING I’M AFRAID Mr. Mike!
And I see the scriptures that say “very good”.
I DON’T see any scriptures that talk about a previous PERFECT heaven and earth.
Me READ AGAIN WHAT I JUST SAID ABOVE! BUT FOR GOD’S SAKE
SEE THINGS FROM GOD’S PERSPECTIVE PLEASE:
THE HEAVEN AND EARTH, CREATED IN GENESIS 1:1 BY GOD THE FATHER ALL SPIRITUAL AS MUCH AS PHYSICAL;
PERFECT!
ANSWER Mr. Mike!
DID GOD THE FATHER, PERFECT,
CREATE THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH of Genesis 1:1
YES OR NO?
NOW, DOD GOD THE FATHER, PERFECT, CREATE THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH IN Genesis 1:1
PERFECT?
YES OR NO?
All you need to do is show those scriptures,
I BELIEVE THERE’S NO NEED TO DO THAT SINCE IT IS IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES!
OK? CAN YOU SEE IT THIS TIME!
Mr. Milk! with every respect!
YES OR NO?
and then explain how Satan,
one of God’s creations,
was able to overpower the God who created him and
completely destroy God’s previous “PERFECT” earth.
THE ABOVE Mr. Mike
IS YOUR CARNAL TWISTED AND CORRUPTED REASONING AND WISDOM!
IT SEEMS TO ME FINALLY YOU DECIDED TO ACCEPT AND READ
MY NOVELS!
YES OR NO PLEASE!
NOW, FOR A START:
SATAN WAS NEVER CREATED AS SUCH AT ALL Mr. Mike!
BUT TO BE PRECISE, THOUGH TO YOU IT IS
THE SAME EXACT THING,
HE ESTABLISHED HIMSELF AS SATAN/A
ALSO, IT WAS GOD’S PREDESTINED PLAN THAT THE FIRST-EVER MOST
BEAUTIFUL CREATURE WOULD EVENTUALLY REBEL!
IN ORDER FOR GOD TO BE IN CONTROL OF ALL!
BOTH GOOD AND EVIL, BOTH LIGHT AND DARKNESS!
FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT THROUGH HIM GOD CREATED FIRST THE HEAVENLY REALMS ALL FULLY LUMINOUS, AND ALSO THROUGH HIM ALL IN FULL DARKNESS!
OBVIOUS, I HAVE TO BE CLEAR WITH A PERSON LIKE YOU!
ALL BY “THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN TO BE, AS A SPIRIT HIDDEN IN LUCIFER!
Psalm 18 which is a reference to Lucifer’s kick-start of his rebellion and his flooding of the first earth of Genesis 1:1:
THAT WILL DO FOR NOW I’ ‘M AFRAID, TILL YOU GIVE ME THE GO-AHEAD FOR MY NOVELS!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
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