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Very easy “Yes or No” questions that were ignored by Proclaimer (as usual)…
PROCLAIMER, DO YOU NOW UNDERSTAND THAT BIG BANG, DEEP TIME UNIFORMITARIANISM, AND COMMON DESCENT EVOLUTION ARE NOT EVEN A PART OF SCIENCE, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT OBSERVABLE, TESTABLE, AND REPEATABLE?
DO YOU FURTHER UNDERSTAND THAT SCIENCE IS THE COLLECTION OF DATA – WHICH MAKES NO CONCLUSIONS – WHILE SCIENTISM IS A FAITH-BASED BELIEF IN THE INTERPRETATIONS OF THOSE DATA BY FLAWED HUMAN BEINGS?
AND FINALLY, HAVE YOU NOW COME TO UNDERSTAND THAT BY REJECTING A BLIND, UNQUESTIONING, FAITH-BASED BELIEF IN THE INTERPRETATIONS OF FLAWED MEN, I DON’T DENY SCIENCE ITSELF, BUT RATHER THE RELIGION OF SCIENTISM?
LU: Jesus is the only begotten God, the Lord of lords…
Is the Father also the Lord of lords?
LU: [Jesus] was sent from the Yahweh Unity to serve this Unity as He emptied Himself and became man, the promised Messiah.
So the unity of Jesus and the Father sent Jesus as Jesus’ and the Father’s anointed one? Jesus sent himself, and anointed himself?
And Jesus is the son of the Unity, and therefore his own son? And as the servant of the Unity, he is therefore his own servant (and also the master whom he serves)? And as the priest of the Unity, he is therefore the mediator between himself and himself?
Kathi, I’d really like to get to the bottom of this doctrine you’ve created. I think it should have a dedicated thread – because I’m sure I’m not the only one who would like to scrutinize it against various scriptures. Let me know. In the meantime, could you explain exactly what the “Yahweh Unity” is?
For starters, is it two individual living beings? Or is it one single living being?
Carmel: OK, Mike, THE PROPHET/GOD CHOSE DEFINITELY THE SAME TERMS USED IN GENESIS 1:2 ATTENTION PLEASE:
IN ORDER TO MAKE THINGS CLEAR, THAT WHAT DID OCCUR IN GENESIS 1:2 IS GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN TO THE LAND OF ISRAEL.
I see. So then when God made a PROMISE to Noah that He would never again destroy the earth by water, God was lying?
And for argument’s sake, let’s pretend that you’re right. How does God taking the CURRENT earth back to its Gen 1:2 state make an argument that it has happened before?
Also, you didn’t address the fact that in the destruction prophesied about in Jeremiah, there will still be birds (although they fled) and cities (although they’ve been torn down) and mountains and hills and deserts. Does the earth of Gen 1:2 have all of those things, Carmel?
Carmel: 2Peter3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of OLD, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
What the above scripture tells you clearly, regarding THE HEAVEN/S and THE EARTH
That heaven and earth were created a long time ago, and the earth as we now know it began as a blob of water. Also, try this much better translation of the Greek words…
2 Peter 3:5… But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed from water and by water.
Proclaimer, 5th post on the previous page please. The one about indefinite articles. There is a question at the bottom that awaits your direct and honest answer. Thanks.
Hi Mike, …..
Mike, THE PROPHET/GOD CHOSE DEFINITELY THE SAME TERMS USED IN GENESIS 1:2 ATTENTION PLEASE:
IN ORDER TO MAKE THINGS CLEAR,
WHAT DID OCCUR IN GENESIS 1:2 IS GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN TO THE LAND OF ISRAEL.
You: I see. So then when God made a PROMISE to Noah that He would never again destroy the earth by water, God was lying?
Mike, YOU SIMPLY RUSH TO CONCLUSIONS! WHY YOU SIMPLY ARE STUCK TO THE EVENT OF THE FLOOD!
DID I MENTION THE FLOOD IN MY STATEMENT? Read:
WHAT DID OCCUR IN GENESIS 1:2 IS GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN TO THE LAND OF ISRAEL.
What did occur in Genesis 1:2 obvious: TOTAL DESTRUCTION!
TOTAL DESTRUCTION DOESN’T OCCUR ONLY BY A FLOOD, ESPECIALLY FROM GOD, LOOK AT SODOM AND GOMORRAH! Now read verse
Jeremiah 4:4 Be circumcised to the Lord, and take away the foreskins of your hearts, ye men of Juda, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my indignation come forth like fire, and burn, and there be none that can quench it: because of the wickedness of your thoughts.
BUT SATAN’S POWER WAS ALWAYS BY THE OCEANS! THE FACT THAT JESUS WALKED ON IT AND ALSO COMMANDED TO STOP when Satan, BY THE ONLY PART OF THE WORLD, at that moment in time, that he SUPPOSED TO HAVE POWER ON, Luke 8:18, Job38:8-11 tried to kill them all.
Now, just to remind you what I already made clear in other posts
THE FLOOD IN GENESIS 1:2 WAS CAUSED BY LUCIFER AS THE FIRST DIRECT ACT BY WHICH HE KICKED STARTED THE REBELLION, AND AS JESUS HIMSELF CONFIRMED AND CALLED HIM
THE MURDERER FROM THE BEGINNING!
OBVIOUS, GOD KNEW FROM THE FIRST SPECK OF INTENTION IN LUCIFER’S HEART! Ezekiel 28:17. APART FROM THE FACT, THAT THE REBELLION WAS ALSO A DIVINE PREDETERMINED PLAN.
Now I KNOW YOU HATE NOVELS, but let’s make things, even more convincing! Genesis 1:2 does not talk about the actual flood, Mike, that was well after, what was being occurred for quite a long period of time, which in our terms, it was more like an endless time of CHAOS, which also was being occurred in the land of Israel of Jeremiah and also for quite a long time, the fact that God through Jeremiah kept on calling Israel to repent. or else:
DESTRUCTION! Nevertheless Read: verse 27 now:
For thus saith the Lord: All the land shall be desolate,
but yet I will not utterly destroy.
Now back to
Genesis 1;2 And the earth was void and empty,
and darkness was upon the face of the deep; …..
OK, Mike, reading the above there’s no flood mentioned, NOT EVEN THE WORD “WATERS” yet, but there’s definitely what in actual fact occurred also in THE LAND OF ISRAEL of Jeremiah 4: a complete CHAOS!
You: And for argument’s sake, let’s pretend that you’re right.
How does God taking the CURRENT earth back to its Gen 1:2 state
make an argument that it has happened before?
Me: Not “the current earth” YOU MEAN!
BUT ONLY THE LAND OF ISRAEL!
AND NOT IN RELATION TO THE FLOOD Mike, PLEASE!
BUT in relation to THE EVIL STATE by which eventually THE DESTRUCTION came! THE FACT THAT GOD/JEREMIAH REFERRED TO Genesis 1:2 for the simple reason that EVIL for an endless time, OCCURRED BEFORE THE REBELLION AND THE EVENTUAL FLOOD, despite the fact that God from within the heart of Lucifer, through “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of man to be, did all He could do for no use, to convince Lucifer of the truth!
GOD ALL-KNOWING, KNEW OF THE FLOOD, THUS, THERE WAS NO NEED FOR HIM TO DESTROY THE FIRST WORLD OF GENESIS 1:1
You;….. make an argument that it has happened before?
SIMPLY BECAUSE BOTH SCRIPTURES ARE ANALOGOUS, AND RELATED IN A WAY TO EACH OTHER!
SO, SINCE AS IT IS WRITTEN IN JEREMIAH 4 TO THE LAND OF ISRAEL IN VIEW OF ITS EVIL STATE AND ITS EVENTUAL JUDGEMENT, IT IS ALSO WRITTEN IN GENESIS 1:2 TO THE CORRUPTED EARTH IN VIEW OF ITS EVIL STATE AND ITS EVENTUAL JUDGEMENT.
THE FACT THAT BOTH SCRIPTURES USE THE SAME TERMINOLOGY!
You: Also, try this much better translation of the Greek words…
2 Peter 3:5… But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed from water and by water.
THAT’S IN THE NEXT POST
Pace and love in Jesus Christ
The Earth Still Isn’t Flat
Dozens of debunks in one video. Enjoy!
And each debunk on its own disproves the flat earth.
PROCLAIMER, DO YOU NOW UNDERSTAND THAT BIG BANG, DEEP TIME UNIFORMITARIANISM, AND COMMON DESCENT EVOLUTION ARE NOT EVEN A PART OF SCIENCE, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT OBSERVABLE, TESTABLE, AND REPEATABLE?’
This is a loaded question. Reword it so that it can be answered by yes / no / maybe. If I asked you if you have stopped beating your wife, then yes / no / maybe isn’t fair because the question is loaded.
DO YOU FURTHER UNDERSTAND THAT SCIENCE IS THE COLLECTION OF DATA – WHICH MAKES NO CONCLUSIONS – WHILE SCIENTISM IS A FAITH-BASED BELIEF IN THE INTERPRETATIONS OF THOSE DATA BY FLAWED HUMAN BEINGS?
This is a loaded question. Reword it so that it can be answered by yes / no / maybe. If I asked you if you have stopped beating your wife, then yes / no / maybe isn’t fair because the question is loaded.
AND FINALLY, HAVE YOU NOW COME TO UNDERSTAND THAT BY REJECTING A BLIND, UNQUESTIONING, FAITH-BASED BELIEF IN THE INTERPRETATIONS OF FLAWED MEN, I DON’T DENY SCIENCE ITSELF, BUT RATHER THE RELIGION OF SCIENTISM?
You deny science.
Carmel: Mike, YOU SIMPLY RUSH TO CONCLUSIONS! WHY YOU SIMPLY ARE STUCK TO THE EVENT OF THE FLOOD!
DID I MENTION THE FLOOD IN MY STATEMENT? Read:
WHAT DID OCCUR IN GENESIS 1:2 IS GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN TO THE LAND OF ISRAEL.
What did occur in Genesis 1:2 obvious: TOTAL DESTRUCTION!
Carmel, any time water breaches its boundary and covers what is normally dry land, it’s call a flood. For the current earth to have all of its land covered by water would imply a massive flood – like in the days of Noah. But God said He’d never flood the earth again.
Carmel: SIMPLY BECAUSE BOTH SCRIPTURES ARE ANALOGOUS, AND RELATED IN A WAY TO EACH OTHER!
I agree that both verses use two of the same words. Because of that, you think that the world will once again be in the state described in Gen 1:2 – and you extrapolate from that your idea that this has also happened before Gen 1:2.
I don’t think or believe either of those things. And I haven’t seen anything from you to change my mind.
I’ve pointed out that in Jeremiah’s prophecy, there will still be birds and cities. That wasn’t the case in Gen 1:2. You have not responded to that point – although this is the third or fourth time I’m brining it up. I’m no longer interested in the discussion unless you directly address that point first.
Proclaimer: This is a loaded question.
The questions are not loaded. It’s already abundantly clear to everyone who’s followed the Genesis thread that you didn’t used to understand that big bang, deep time uniformitarianism, and common descent evolution are not even a part of science, because they are not observable, testable and repeatable. It’s likewise clear to all of us that you didn’t used to understand that science is the collection of data – which makes no conclusions – while Scientism is a faith-based belief in the interpretations of those data by flawed human beings. And it’s also clear to all of us that you didn’t understand the difference between me denying the Scientism interpretations of flawed men and denying science itself.
The undeniable factual nature of all of the statements is not up for debate. The statements are true. And the undeniable factual nature of my implication that you weren’t previously aware of these facts is also not up for debate – because it’s clear from your own many comments that you didn’t previous understand these things – hence the accurate wording of my questions, “Do you NOW understand [these things – because it’s very clear that you didn’t before]?”
Now, if you wanted to falsely claim that you DID understand them before I taught them to you, you could still answer the questions by saying, “I’ve always known those things…”, or some other nonsensical wording that makes you seem to be at the upper echelon of knowledge when compared to us – like you always do.
But then we could easily disprove that claim by showing your own confusion about these things as per your own words in many posts, right? So instead of being an honest man and saying, “Yes Mike, I now understand these things… thanks for pointing them out to me”, you have attempted to completely avoid – not only the questions themselves – but the undeniably factual statements contained within them. But we’re already used to this kind of cowardly behavior from you, so it’s no big surprise to any of us.
Ironically, you accidently managed to sufficiently answer the questions anyway…
Proclaimer: You deny science.
How could I or anyone else possibly “deny” the action of someone observing the stars – or observing a gnat under a microscope or whatever? 🤔 The fact that you think someone can “deny” the gathering and testing of data (ie: SCIENCE) proves that you STILL don’t understand the things I’ve recently taught you… which means that your honest answer to all three questions is “NO”.
So thanks for answering my questions – albeit unwittingly. 😁
Proclaimer, you are the little man with a big mouth who shouts slander and accusations at the gentle giant… until the giant stands up. At that point, the little man with the big mouth runs away crying like a scared little girl. That’s where we’re at right now.
I implore you to stop being the little man with the big mouth by simply having a respectable adult discussion with a peer. It’s okay for you to directly answer my questions that challenge your belief system. It’s okay that you are wrong sometimes. You don’t have to keep being the little big mouth who takes cheap pot shots and then runs away and hides. Just start having honest discussions, dude. It’s not that hard.
A quick update on how it’s going since I put Proclaimer on the Hot Seat for failure to directly answer many, many questions I’ve asked him. First of all, here is how the Hot Seat is supposed to work – as designed by Proclaimer himself…
Notice in the fourth paragraph that the Hot Seat was designed for people who have “chosen to ignore legitimate and good questions in the past because those questions have exposed their teachings”. This is what Proclaimer has done countless times during the Genesis discussion, and is the reason I put him on the Hot Seat.
Notice in the first paragraph, it is directly stated that the member who refuses to answer a fair question on the Hot Seat is banned from participating on the HN site until they answer that question.
Proclaimer breaks his own rules every time he posts on this site without first answering the question waiting for him in the Hot Seat. And they are not hard questions. The latest ones can be answered with a simple “Yes” or “No” – so it’s not like I’m demanding him to spend countless hours dealing with me before he can post other stuff. It would take him a few seconds.
He refused to answer my first question…
PROCLAIMER, AFTER THE APPEARANCE OF THE SUN (AND THEREFORE THE BEGINNING OF THE SUN-EARTH CYCLE), IS THERE ANY SCRIPTURAL REASON FOR YOU TO BELIEVE THAT ANY OF THE INDIVIDUAL DAYS (SUNRISE TO THE NEXT SUNRISE) DURING THE CREATION PERIOD WERE LONGER THAN 24 HOURS?
I’m not asking how God may or may not experience time. We’ll get to that soon enough. I’m asking if there’s any scriptural reason to believe that any particular timespan from one sunrise to the next sunrise during the creation “epochs” (regardless of how long you believe them to be) lasted more than 24 hours.
… so I finally answered it for him with “No” – just to move the discussion along. This was my follow-up question…
PROCLAIMER, IS THERE ANY SCRIPTURAL REASON FOR YOU TO SUSPECT THAT THE DAILY SUN-EARTH CYCLES – OR THE LIGHT-DARK CYCLES THAT PRECEDED THE APPEARANCE OF THE SUN – WERE ANYTHING OTHER THAN 24-HOUR CYCLES DURING THE CREATION PERIOD? IF SO, PLEASE PRESENT THAT SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE.
*Reminder: I am still not asking how God may or may not experience the passing of time. I am asking about literal sun-earth days, and the light-dark days that preceded the sun.
This was Proclaimer’s “answer”…
What? Lol. Day and night cycles before the sun? …your question is irrelevant to me.
Of course, how relevant my question may seem to Proclaimer is not the point. The rules of the Hot Seat require that he directly answer the question. So here was my follow-up…
Yes Proclaimer, according to the Bible, there were day-night cycles before the sun.
Genesis 1:3-5… And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
PROCLAIMER, ARE YOU ABLE TO SEE FROM THE SCRIPTURAL WORDS ABOVE THAT, BEFORE THE APPEARANCE OF THE SUN, GOD CREATED LIGHT AND SEPARATED IT FROM THE DARKNESS?
ARE YOU ABLE TO SEE THAT HE CALLED THE LIGHT “DAY”, AND THE DARKNESS “NIGHT”?
AND ARE YOU ABLE TO SEE THAT HE CALLED THE VERY FIRST DAY-NIGHT CYCLE, WHICH INCLUDED A SINGLE MORNING AND A SINGLE EVENING, THE FIRST “DAY”?
And that’s where we’ve been for a week. Each question requires a simple “Yes” or “No” – because he either CAN see those things in the scripture I included for him… or he CAN’T.
So by Proclaimer’s own rules, he is not allowed to post anything in any other thread until he answers the Hot Seat questions. I understand that the Hot Seat doesn’t give someone permission to bombard another member with a thousand word novel filled with dozens of questions that they must answer before posting anywhere else – but this is ridiculous. And Proclaimer wouldn’t even be on the Hot Seat if he would have just made an honest effort to address the points I was making about Genesis in this thread. But for months, he had plenty of time to write his own novels, pontificating furiously about things that always steered clear of directly addressing any point I had made – and which never failed to include plenty of ad hominem attacks against me and/or other members here.
So how is it that Proclaimer has the time to constantly post on other threads, but no time to post, “Yes, yes, yes” or “No, no, no” to my latest questions in the Hot Seat thread? How is he okay with flaunting HIS OWN rules?
I think I’m starting to see why he openly supported the tyrannical rules that his nation laid down on its citizens during the fake Covid 19 plandemic – and called those who didn’t follow those unconstitutional mandates “touters”, and blamed THEM for a plandemic that was fake and planned from the beginning. It’s because he secretly wants to BE one of those tyrannical rulers who thinks rules are only for the rubes, but not for the rulers like him. He is like those politicians who dined maskless in a fancy restaurant, while insisting that the servers wear masks.
Hey Proclaimer! When are you going to follow your own rules? When are you going to answer my good questions that “expose your false teachings”?
And to the person who I know will say, “Well Mike, that’s because there are a lot more vaxxed than unvaxxed now”, I say:
1. The least sinister explanation is that being single, double, or triple vaxxed didn’t do a damn thing to help anyone.
2. The more sinister explanation is that the vax IS the culprit, and weakens your immune system so that normal common colds that you’ve overcome dozens of times in the past will now kill you.
And there is abundant scientific evidence that both are true.
This is just one sign at one doctor’s office. People are posting similar signs from all over the US. All of a sudden, healthy teenage children WHO HAVE BEEN VAXXED must have echocardiograms before being allowed to play school sports. But I know, I know… Sergio! 🙄
Gene: Now to another point, have you ever looked up the word we translate as “created” used in Gen 1: 1,
It comes from Hebrew word meaning to ‘spread’ or “fatten,” is what the Hebrew implies, you can also find where God said he spread the heavens and earth written in ,
Isaiah 42:5……“thus says God (the) LORD (YAHOVAH ) , he that created or (fattened) the heavens, and “Stretched ” them out; he that “spread forth” the earth, and that which comes out of it; also read Isaiah 45 : 21.
Gene, are you ready to use “fatten” as the default definition every time? Or just in verses that support certain preconceived notions that you have? For example, will you use the “fattened” definition for all three uses of “bara” in this verse…
Genesis 1:27… So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
Did God “fatten” or “spread” man into His own image, Gene? And if not, do you really have any SCRIPTUAL reason to use “fatten/spread” in Isaiah 42:5? Or only personal reasons?
Gene: So there is scripture that does support the big bang theory after all…
God stretching out heaven doesn’t support big bang when you understand that – according to scripture – Isaiah’s words refer to God stretching out a hard-as-bronze firmament to separate the waters below from the waters above.
Would it surprise you to know that one of the meanings for the word translated as “stretched out” in Isaiah 42:5 is “pitched a tent”? (Gen 12:8) Do you find that interesting considering that Isaiah also specifically said that God spread out (same exact Hebrew word) the heaven as a tent for us to dwell in? (Is 40:22)
And did you know that the word translated as “spread out” the earth in 42:5 means to “stamp out” or “beat into shape” – and is used of stamping out metal into sheets? And that fits with Isaiah calling it “the circle of the earth” in 40:22, and Jesus saying he witnessed God “inscribing a circle on the face of the deep” in Proverbs 8:27.
See Ex 39:3 for this word describing people beating gold into sheets, and Numbers 16:39 for people beating bronze into plating. See Job 37:18 for this word describing God beating the “hard-as-polished-bronze” firmament into shape. And see Psalm 136:6 for God beating the circle of the earth into shape.
Gene, that word IS the word translated as “firmament” in the scripture. And God called the firmament “heaven”. It always refers to the action of beating something hard and solid into a shape – or to the finished, hard and solid shape the thing has been beaten into. According to scripture, “heaven” is a hard and solid object that was beaten into shape by God. Of course it would have to be, considering that it still supports the enormous weight of the waters above it to this very day. (Psalm 148:4)
Gene: …and Genesis 1v1 does show this was done before there ever was a first day Mike. So we can conclude the heavens and the earth were already there before , this present creation began right?
No sir… we cannot logically conclude any such thing from the scriptural words. For one, God includes both the heaven and the earth IN the things He made over a six day period. There is no way to understand God’s own statements as indicating that the heaven and the earth already existed, and then God did things to them during a six day period.
For another, the heaven didn’t even exist until day 2.
Mike,
Regarding this post:
LU: Jesus is the only begotten God, the Lord of lords…
Is the Father also the Lord of lords?LU: [Jesus] was sent from the Yahweh Unity to serve this Unity as He emptied Himself and became man, the promised Messiah.
So the unity of Jesus and the Father sent Jesus as Jesus’ and the Father’s anointed one? Jesus sent himself, and anointed himself?And Jesus is the son of the Unity, and therefore his own son? And as the servant of the Unity, he is therefore his own servant (and also the master whom he serves)? And as the priest of the Unity, he is therefore the mediator between himself and himself?
Kathi, I’d really like to get to the bottom of this doctrine you’ve created. I think it should have a dedicated thread – because I’m sure I’m not the only one who would like to scrutinize it against various scriptures. Let me know. In the meantime, could you explain exactly what the “Yahweh Unity” is?
For starters, is it two individual living beings? Or is it one single living being?
Is the Father the Lord of lords. As part of the YHVH unity, the Father is the God of gods and the Son is the Lord of lords, as I understand it.
So the unity of Jesus and the Father sent Jesus as Jesus’ and the Father’s anointed one? Jesus sent himself, and anointed himself?
I would say it like this: The Unity of the Father and the Son agreed that the Son member of the Unity would go to be the ‘anointed One’ for the Unity.
The Son was not alone in this decision, it was a two person decision. It was decided that the Son would be the one to go and be the Messiah and not the Father. Within the Unity, the Father is the One sending and the Son is the One being sent.
Think of a church (a unity of many members) that sends one of their members to go to another country. The member that was sent was sent by the collective unity. The member that was sent had a part in their own sending by agreeing to be sent. The member that was sent did not solely send themself apart from the unity of the church, the unity sends that member.
The great commission carries that concept of sending even further. Within the unity of the church, including the “Head” of the church (Christ) and the body of the church (the believers), the Head gives the command to the body to go into all the world and teach the gospel, some members within the body agree to go. They are part of the sending by agreeing to be sent but it can’t be said that they solely sent themself yet they took a part in the sending.
And Jesus is the son of the Unity, and therefore his own son? And as the servant of the Unity, he is therefore his own servant (and also the master whom he serves)? And as the priest of the Unity, he is therefore the mediator between himself and himself?
Jesus does not equal the whole unity. Jesus is one of the members of the Unity, so is the Father who is the member that is the head of the Unity. Jesus is in relationship to the Head of the unity as the Son of the Father. Jesus is not the Father and the Father alone is not the unity. Jesus alone is not the unity. The Father and the Son are the members of the YHVH unity. If you saw One member, you would see YHVH, if you saw the other member, you would see YHVH. If you saw the ‘head’ side of a penny, you would see a penny, if you saw the ‘tail’ side of the penny, you would also see a penny. While a penny is one penny, it has two sides to the one penny. I’m not saying that YHVH has two heads but instead two persons where one is the Head of the unity and the other is the Son of the Head of the unity.
Kathi, I’d really like to get to the bottom of this doctrine you’ve created.
I didn’t create “this doctrine.” this is what Jesus taught and most Christians believe. It is commonly spoken of as the Godhead, the Father, the Son and the Spirit as the fullness of YHVH. I agree with that. The Spirit is commonly taught as a third person and if that were true, I would love to understand that. However, I believe a better label is that the Holy Spirit is “the united spirit of the Father and the Son” that can carry their presence anywhere and everywhere at the same time according to the will of the Father and the Son.
I think it should have a dedicated thread – because I’m sure I’m not the only one who would like to scrutinize it against various scriptures. Let me know.
I am always willing to answer the questions as I feel the LORD leading me to do so. We have tried to have a one on one discussion here before. You could find that thread and focus on your questions there. Remember, I am a college girl now who is trying to get “A’s” in her classes. I am also a wife, mom, sister and grandma. My time on here is limited especially during the semester.
Well, that is all for now, I have to go learn how to draw a roof and place it on a house plan :). Have a blessed day. LU
Mike, the word heaven simply meaning is sky, and here is another indication there are more then one heavens
Gen 10v14……..“behold the heaven, and the heaven “OF” heavens “IS”, the LORD’S thy God’s, the earth also, with “ALL” that “THEREIN ” is. THIS INCLUDES MANKIND.
So, two things, that prove you wrong
1………there “IS” more then one heaven, THERE s an earthly heaven and CELESTIAL heavens,
2……..Using the wording where Jesus said, “know you not, that you are God’s, as meaning we are God’s possession, “IS”, scripturally accurate also. IMO.
Peach and love to you and yours Mike. ……….gene
Proclaimer breaks his own rules every time he posts on this site without first answering the question waiting for him in the Hot Seat.
What rule exactly.
And I intend to answer every fair question.
Further, you need to reword your loaded questions. Try and build your case one precept at a time. That way I can answer each question. When you ask a question that is based on multiple asumptions, then it is hard to answer the question yes or no because there are multiple views. Think about it. If your question has two correct points and one wrong point, then how can you answer yes or no?
Build your case one point at a time. I can easily answer a single question that has a single point.
Very easy “Yes or No” questions that were ignored by Proclaimer (as usual)…
PROCLAIMER, DO YOU NOW UNDERSTAND THAT BIG BANG, DEEP TIME UNIFORMITARIANISM, AND COMMON DESCENT EVOLUTION ARE NOT EVEN A PART OF SCIENCE, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT OBSERVABLE, TESTABLE, AND REPEATABLE?
DO YOU FURTHER UNDERSTAND THAT SCIENCE IS THE COLLECTION OF DATA – WHICH MAKES NO CONCLUSIONS – WHILE SCIENTISM IS A FAITH-BASED BELIEF IN THE INTERPRETATIONS OF THOSE DATA BY FLAWED HUMAN BEINGS?
AND FINALLY, HAVE YOU NOW COME TO UNDERSTAND THAT BY REJECTING A BLIND, UNQUESTIONING, FAITH-BASED BELIEF IN THE INTERPRETATIONS OF FLAWED MEN, I DON’T DENY SCIENCE ITSELF, BUT RATHER THE RELIGION OF SCIENTISM?Answered here Mike.
Cont.
Hi Mike,
Carmel: 2Peter3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God
the heavens were of OLD, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
What the above scripture tells you clearly, regarding THE HEAVEN/S and THE EARTH
You: That heaven and earth were created a long time ago, and the earth as we now know it began as a blob of water. Also, try this much better translation of the Greek words…
2 Peter 3:5… But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed from water and by water.
Me: It is evidently clear that only THE HEAVENS, the endless SPIRITS of light, came into being /CREATED ex-nihilo, by “THE WORD” of God, Genesis 1:1, John1:1, while the earth was FORMED from water and by water, Genesis 1:2, John1:2-3 also by “THE WORD” of God directly as a SPIRIT, all in/by Him, originated from the first earth, Psalm 18, which came into being/CREATED in Genesis 1:1 John1:2-3
John4:14But the water that I will give him, shall become in him a fountain of water, springing up into life everlasting.
Rev. 22:17And the spirit and the bride say: Come. And he that heareth, let him say: Come. And he that thirsteth, let him come: and he that will, let him take the water of life, freely.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
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