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Berean: Proclaimer
Your interpretation of day for God is worth a thousand years ONCE AGAIN IS OUT OF CONTEXT.
Proclaimer knows full well that his use of 2 Peter 3:8 is completely out of context in a discussion about Genesis 1 – but he has NOTHING ELSE to offer.
He realized a long time ago that he lost this debate, but his pride and ego won’t let him humble himself and admit it. So all he has left now are personal attacks and completely unrelated scriptures about the day of wrath, a sword in Jesus’ mouth, and Peter’s encouragement to those who were weary of waiting for salvation.
Proclaimer knows full well that his use of 2 Peter 3:8 is completely out of context in a discussion about Genesis 1 – but he has NOTHING ELSE to offer.
I see. So it is always 24 hours except that one time in Peter and also when night is mentioned. Got it. No exceptions. The Day of Wrath is 24 hours etc. Hilarious.
IF YOU DISAGREE, LIST THE METAPHORS, WHAT THEY ARE METAPHORICALLY ALLUDING TO, AND HOW YOU CAME TO THAT CONCLUSION USING ONLY THE SCRIPTURES. THANKS.
Um. The sun wasn’t even there according to you. So forcing 24 hours with a literal morning and evening is silly. Same goes for Jesus return. There is no samurai sword, so I would suggest that it is the word of God that is being referenced.
How do you get a morning and evening within a 24 hour period if the sun wasn’t there.
Mike, you underestimate the sun when it comes to a 24 hour earth day. Lol. 🤣
#stoneageWhat is The Stone Age?
Mike, there are still stoneage cultures today. They hunt and make fire using stone tools and wood. Nothing wrong with that of course. But if they tried to pass off their creation myths as science, then I would have a problem with that.
For example, Australian Aboriginals believed that the Rainbow Serpent came from underground and was responsible for creating mountains, gorges and large ridges as it pushed upward. A creature of gigantic proportions, the Rainbow Serpent resides in deep permanent waterholes. It is the Rainbow Serpent that controls one of life’s most precious resources, water.
Fascinating Indigenous Myths and Legends of the Australian Aboriginals
Mike. You are embarrassing yourself again. Do you honestly believe you have me and other globe trotters on the run? That this is a slam dunk. Funny as. Seriously dude. This is not two intellects having an intelligent conversation about earth and the cosmos. Rather, it is someone trying to get the other guy to stop embarrasing himself. I’m betting that your genius comeback is you put me in the role of the guy embarrassing himself. Maybe not now though, since mentioning this childish strategy would make you look worse.
Carmel: WORLDLY WISDOM IS NOT OF GOD, AND COUNTS FOR NOTHING Mr. Mike!
What else do we have, Carmel? Even if a spirit shows you something, you much test that spirit to see if it is from God, right?Hi Mike,
YOU: And what did you test that spirit against – to make sure it was from God?
By what means do we test that spirit?
Me: the fact is that:
Both what I posted,
and that I haven’t answered you yet is
A CLEAR PROOF THAT
THE SPIRIT IS OF GOD SO
Now have a go Mike,
READ AGAIN WHAT I POSTED TO ADAM AND ASK ME SOMETHING, BY WHICH YOU PROVE THAT IN MY POST THERE’ COULD BE THE DEVIL’S WORK!
I AM WAITING!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel: THAT’S RIGHT Mike,
GOD WAS NOT ALL BY HIMSELF WHEN HE CREATED THE EARTH
You: Correct. I’m glad you have come around on that fact. You originally claimed that God was all by Himself in darkness – and I corrected you with Job 38:7… remember? Then we went on a wild goose chase about how many morning stars there are, and whether or not they’ve ever been together – or apart… remember?
Me: THE ABOVE IT’S NOT QUITE THE PRECISE WAY WE DISCUSSED THINGS, BUT JUST LEAVE IT AS IT IS FOR NOW!
You: Anyway, you are now correct that God was not alone when He created the heaven and the earth. Cheers.
Me: WAIT, WAIT, WHAT CHEERS?
In the above Mike, again it’s not the way I said things, so read again please:
THAT’S RIGHT Mike,
GOD WAS NOT ALL BY HIMSELF WHEN HE CREATED THE EARTH,
HOLD IT!
THE EARTH OF GENESIS 1:1
BY THE LOOK OF IT,
DON’T YOU?
NOW ANSWER PLEASE
IS IT GENESIS 1:1 YES OR NO!
OR
Genesis 1:3……..
I ALREADY MADE IT CLEAR THAT GENESIS 1:1HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GENESIS 1:3….. AND GENESIS 1:2 IS
THE STATE OF THE EARTH AFTER THE EARTH OF GENESIS 1:1 GOT CORRUPTED!
SO I AM MORE THAN SURE THAT IT IS A REFERENCE TO GENESIS 1:1 IN RELATION TO
MY POST!
WHICH ACCORDING TO YOUR CLAIM YOU NEVER READ, OF WHICH
I DON’T BELIEVE YOU DIDN’T.
Also Mike,
WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU?
I MEAN, DID YOU OPT TO START READING MY POST FROM
THE BOTTOM UP, OR YOU READ IT ALL ALRIGHT, BUT JUST IGNORED THE REST OF MY POST, SIMPLY AS IT CLEARLY SAYS THE TRUTH?
FOR INSTANCE, READ AGAIN WHY I SAID TO YOU:
THAT’S RIGHT Mike:
GOD IN THE ABOVE IS MORE A BUILDING CONTRACTOR THEN
A CREATOR EX-NIHILO!
Job 38: 7When the morning stars praised me together, and all the sons of God made a joyful melody?
DID YOU MIKE, UNDERSTAND WHY I SAID THAT:
GOD IN THE ABOVE IS MORE A BUILDING CONTRACTOR THEN
A CREATOR EX-NIHILO? YES OR NO?
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Mike….what you quoted does not say Jesus was actually in existence before his birth on this earth , but that the plan concerning him did exist as a prophised being to come, he was just as it said, was to come into his existence from Bethlehem of the clans of the Jews, and it was planned from ancient times.
So you or anyone else haven’t produced “any scripture” that say he prexisted before his birth on this earth, as anykind of real being, have you?
Peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
Proclaimer: I see. So it is always 24 hours except that one time in Peter and also when night is mentioned. Got it. No exceptions. The Day of Wrath is 24 hours etc. Hilarious.
Wrong… again. In the Bible, any time God speaks of a “day”, and the word “day” is modified by a cardinal number and/or the words morning/evening, it is ALWAYS talking about a literal 12 or 24 hour day. NO EXCEPTIONS.
The “Day of Wrath” isn’t modified by a cardinal number or by evening/morning. It could be a literal day, it may not be.
By the way, 2 Peter 3:8 is not an exception. Not only is the word “day” modified by the cardinal number “one” in that verse, but the context dictates that he is talking about literal 24 hour days – and explaining that God doesn’t experience our literal days, or time in general, the way we do on earth. He is saying that the concept of something taking a long time is foreign to God, who can either spend a thousand years of our time experiencing one of our days – or experience a thousand years of our time in 24 of our hours.
You purposely overlook the fact that Peter’s statement works both ways. You invoke 2 Peter 3:8 as a way to pretend that God could have said the phrase “six days” to people who would naturally understand it as six of their days (especially since God explicitly EQUATED the six days of creation TO six of their literal days), when He was really talking about six “very long time periods”. Not only would that be intentionally dishonest after explicitly equating those six days to six of their days, but you purposely ignore the other part of Peter’s metaphorical statement… that all “six days” of creation also could have occurred in one second of our time.
A thousand years is 365,000 of our days. So according to Peter, God could experience 365,000 of our days in the equivalent of only one of our days. BUT… according to the same statement, God could also spend the equivalent of 365,000 of our days experiencing just ONE of our days.
And that means that each of the days of creation could have only been 1/365000th of a literal day, or about a sixth of a second. So according to your own logic, where you insert an out of context metaphorical statement into a factual historical account, you must also accept the possibility that the six days of creation actually lasted only one second of our time.
Understand? You can’t just invoke the possibility that the days of creation could have been six “very long periods of time” without also invoking the equal possibility that they could have been six “very SHORT periods of time”. All six days combined could have taken a literal earth second!
But all of this is irrelevant anyway, since God explicitly equated the six days of creation to six of our literal 24 hour days…
Exodus 20:9-11… Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God… BECAUSE in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Yahweh didn’t bless and make holy every seventh “very long period of time” or every seventh “very short period of time”. He blessed and made holy every seventh literal day… BECAUSE He too worked for six literal days and rested on the seventh literal day.
And unlike you, who said you’d have no problem LYING in the most deceptive way possible to the people you created and called your “prized asset”, Yahweh doesn’t lie to His prized asset. Yahweh wouldn’t explicitly equate the six days of creation to six literal earth days if they weren’t six literal earth days.
Which ends this diversion and brings us right back to your brilliant observations that “DAYS WERE MADE FOR US” and “WHEN YOU COMMUNICATE WITH A CERTAIN AUDIENCE, YOU NEED TO SPEAK IN A WAY THAT THEY WILL UNDERSTAND”.
So let’s talk more about what a day actually is, what it means, how days came into existence, who created days, and what mechanisms He put in place to distinguish days.
Proclaimer: nutjob
noun: nutjob;
plural noun: nutjobs;
noun: nut-job;
plural noun: nut-jobs
a mad or crazy person
Mike: IF YOU DISAGREE, LIST THE METAPHORS, WHAT THEY ARE METAPHORICALLY ALLUDING TO, AND HOW YOU CAME TO THAT CONCLUSION USING ONLY THE SCRIPTURES. THANKS.
Proclaimer: The sun wasn’t even there according to you. So forcing 24 hours with a literal morning and evening is silly…
How do you get a morning and evening within a 24 hour period if the sun wasn’t there.
Mike, you underestimate the sun when it comes to a 24 hour earth day. Lol.
I’m not seeing a list of the metaphors, what they are metaphorically alluding to, or how you came to that conclusion using only the scriptures. I have asked DOZENS of direct questions throughout this discussion, and have even reposted them in very large print a bunch of times, but you never directly answer them. What does that tell you, Proclaimer?
For example, you are still talking about the days of creation BEFORE the appearance of the sun – two weeks after I started specifically asking you how long the days of creation were AFTER the appearance of the sun. Why don’t you answer THAT question, Proclaimer?
The only comment you’ve made on that subject is, “I’ve noticed that the universe is fluid” – whatever the heck that means. But since I pointed out to you that your trusted Scientism says a day on earth has NEVER been longer than 24 hours… nothing but crickets. Why? Are you unable to defend your doctrine? Are you a coward, running away from simple questions because you know that giving an honest answer would destroy your doctrine? Are you a petulant little juvenile delinquent, trying to purposely irritate your opponent by offering nonsensical pontifications instead of direct answers?
Seems like it might be time to put someone on the Hot Seat. But let’s give you another chance to directly answer a simple and direct question like an honest adult would…
PROCLAIMER, KNOWING NOW THAT YOUR TRUSTED SCIENTISM SAYS THE EARTH HAS NEVER EXPERIENCED A SINGLE DAY LASTING MORE THAN 24 HOURS, WHAT REASON DO YOU OFFER THAT THE SAME SUN-EARTH CYCLE THAT GIVES US 24 HOUR DAYS NOW MAY HAVE, IN THE PAST, PRODUCED DAYS THAT ARE MANY ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE LONGER THAN 24 HOURS?
Proclaimer: Mike, there are still stoneage cultures today. They hunt and make fire using stone tools and wood. Nothing wrong with that of course. But if they tried to pass off their creation myths as science, then I would have a problem with that.
So then “the Stone Age” isn’t actually a period of time – like you’ve been implying? And what if some people in that culture come to believe in Jesus and Yahweh? Would the fact that they use stone tools while teaching the gospel of Christ mean that the Bible is a creation myth being passed off as science?
Proclaimer: Mike. You are embarrassing yourself again. Do you honestly believe you have me and other globe trotters on the run? That this is a slam dunk. Funny as. Seriously dude. This is not two intellects having an intelligent conversation about earth and the cosmos. Rather, it is someone trying to get the other guy to stop embarrasing himself. I’m betting that your genius comeback is you put me in the role of the guy embarrassing himself. Maybe not now though, since mentioning this childish strategy would make you look worse.
How about you just start directly answering my questions? Thanks.
Carmel: READ AGAIN WHAT I POSTED TO ADAM AND ASK ME SOMETHING, BY WHICH YOU PROVE THAT IN MY POST THERE’ COULD BE THE DEVIL’S WORK!
I AM WAITING!
So then your answer is “NOTHING”? You haven’t tested what the spirit told you against anything? Hmm…
I have a better idea. Why don’t YOU show us what the spirit showed you using God’s written word – and we will believe because your revelation has been tested and approved by the scriptures.
For example, you claim that David alone was sent to another planet during the flood. Show us that in the scriptures, and we will believe it. It would take you a lot less time to point us to that scriptural passage than it would take us to scour the entire Bible trying to find anything that could even remotely resemble that claim, right? So instead of you asking me to search the entire Bible to prove you wrong, you need to point us directly to the part of the Bible that supports your claim.
WE ARE WAITING!
Carmel: I ALREADY MADE IT CLEAR THAT GENESIS 1:1HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GENESIS 1:3….. AND GENESIS 1:2 IS THE STATE OF THE EARTH AFTER THE EARTH OF GENESIS 1:1 GOT CORRUPTED!
You don’t make things clear for us, Carmel… the scriptures do. And according to Yahweh Himself, the creation of the heaven and the earth are INCLUDED in the six days of creation…
Exodus 20:11… For in six days the LORD made the heaven and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.
So no, Gen 1:1 is NOT separated from Gen 1:2 and 1:3. Gen 1:1 is INCLUDED in the same six days of creation. And we know that they are six LITERAL days because God explicitly EQUATES them to six literal days by saying the Israelites are to work six days and rest on the seventh BECAUSE God worked for six days and rested on the seventh.
Sorry Charlie, there is no “gap” of billions of years. There is no “former world that was corrupted”. There is only the ex nihilo creation of our current world in a six literal day time period. End of story.
Carmel: DID YOU OPT TO START READING MY POST FROM THE BOTTOM UP?
I told you before… I don’t “read” your posts at all. I very quickly skim them for anything resembling a rational thought, and sometimes respond to that one part of the novel. It’s just that a lot of times, the first coherent statement doesn’t occur until the very bottom.
Gene: Mike….what you quoted does not say Jesus was actually in existence before his birth on this earth , but that the plan concerning him did exist…
Gene, listen very carefully this time…
John 10:33… “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be a god.”
Gene, in what way was Jesus claiming to be a god? What was he teaching that caused the Jewish leaders to conclude that he was making himself out to be a god as opposed to a mere man?
Do you understand what I’m asking you here? I’m asking you WHY the elders CONCLUDED that Jesus was claiming to be a god.
What is your DIRECT answer to that?
Mike……So you now believe what the blind Pharisee’s say? Here is what Jesus himself said about who is God, “this is eternal life , that they might believe you Father, the “ONLY” true God, and Jesus who you have sent” . Now what does the word “ONLY” mean to you Mike? , to me that means there is “NO OTHER” , TRUE GOD , BUT ONE.
Here is another thing Jesus said “clearly”, the Shema, “hear O Isreal” , the LORD “OUR” God is “ONE” LORD. ,
Here is another scripture for you, the Apostle Paul said this , “but unto us (true believers) , there is but “ONE” God, and one mediator between God and men, the “MAN” , Jesus Christ.
Scripture also says that God is not a Man , nor a son of man, Jesus said over 80 time he was a Son of Man. Jesus also didn’t say he was ““RETURNING ” to God now did he? But said he was going to his God and “our” God, his Father and “our” Father . THERE IS NOT ONE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS HE WAS “RETURNING” TO God , the Father in all scriptures.
But Jesus did say he only spoke to the Pharisee in parables, so they could not understand, so you agreeing with what they say only show that you also believe the way they did, right.
Peace and love to you and yours Mike……….gene
@Proclaimer @Admin
I have just put Proclaimer on The Hot Seat. It is a private thread between only the two of us where he MUST (by his own rules) DIRECTLY answer my questions I have asked him the first question.
Gene: Mike……So you now believe what the blind Pharisee’s say?
Gene, Jesus didn’t DENY their allegation – he explained it. Now answer my questions…
WHY would the Jews accuse Jesus of claiming to be a god instead of a mere man? WHAT teachings of Jesus were they basing that conclusion on? And WHY didn’t Jesus DENY their accusation?
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