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Gene: Mike…….. what does the scripture…..
Exodus 31:16-17… The Israelites must keep the Sabbath… for in six days the LORD made the heaven and the earth, but on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.
Gene, what are the two specific things that Yahweh Himself said He made within a six day period? I’ve underlined them for you. Please list them for us.
Until then, I have no interest in anything you have to say. This is the fifth time I’ve asked you for this very simple thing. You are free to ignore my questions, but I will respond by ignoring yours.
Of course that’s no way to have an honest “discussion” among brothers in Christ – but it all depends on you. You start addressing my points, and I’ll happily start addressing yours again. Until then, go talk to someone else.
Carmel: Hi Berean
You: THEREFORE THE FIRST STEP IN THE CREATION PROCESS IS THE HEAVEN AND EARTH AND NOT LIGHT.
ME: How in your opinion, always based on scripture,
IN GENESIS 1:1 GOD CREATED HEAVEN AND EARTH?
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Dang Carmel… why can’t your posts to ME be like that? At least this is one single incoherent statement instead of a 5000 word incoherent novel!
Proclaimer: Many times in scripture we read about weeks, times, etc. And often they seem to play out on scales beyond our expectations and can span many generations.
We’re just waiting for one time in the entire Bible where God talks about a specific NUMBER of days, but isn’t talking about literal 12 or 24 hour days.
Tick tock…
Proclaimer: If this is true then, it is likely true overall.
Or are you and the SDA making the argument that a day to the LORD only is like a thousand years in that one instance? Because that is what I think you are saying and that seems absurd.
Hey! You are making MY argument for me! I too think it would be absurd for God to use the word “day(s)” in only one instance where the “day(s)” really mean a very long period of time. If it’s true once, then “it is likely true overall”, right?
So Proclaimer, where else in scripture, besides Gen 1, do you interpret God’s use of a specific NUMBER of days to really refer to a specific number of “long time periods”?
Tick tock…
Berean: Well, We’re not applying 2 Peter 3:8 to Genesis 1, that’s for sure.
And oddly enough, Gen 1 is the ONLY place where Proclaimer (and Gene) want to apply Peter’s metaphorical statement – which didn’t even come into existence until 1400 years later!
I’m asking them to put their money where their mouths are. If they truly believe (based on Peter’s metaphorical statement) that when God uses the word day, He means a long period of time, then they need to show that with other scriptures too – not just Gen 1.
As Proclaimer himself says, “if it’s true, then it’s likely true overall”.
So if it’s true that God uses “days” to describe very long periods of time in Genesis, then it must also be true every other time that God uses the word “days” – according to Proclaimer’s own logic.
Now we’re just waiting for him to produce some of those other times.
Tick tock…
Hi Mike,
Thanks FOR YOUR NOVEL!
Also, are YOU ready for the longest NOVEL I EVER WROTE ON HEAVEN NET?
AFTER ALL, I HAVE TO ANSWER YOUR NOVEL! NO?
You: You say that when God says He MADE the heaven and the earth in six days, it means something different to God CREATING the heaven and the earth in six days. Prove it
FIRST AND FOREMOST:
Where did I say THOSE PRECISE WORDS BROTHER MIKE!
ALSO AS I SEE IT Mike, as I said already in my first post in this thread, as far as I can remember right,
UNLESS WE ARE IN ACCORD WITH GENESIS 1:1, WE CAN NOT DISCUSS GENESIS 1:2… I MEAN THAT
GENESIS 1:1 IS
A COMPLETE CREATION OF HEAVEN AND EARTH PERFECT AND INHABITED BY HUMAN-LIKE CREATURES /GIANTS, AND AT A CERTAIN MOMENT IN TIME BECAME CORRUPTED. HINTED OUT IN
ISAIAH 14:13And thou saidst in thy heart:
I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will sit in the mountain of the covenant, in the sides of the north. 14I will ascend above the height of the clouds, I will be like the most High.
NOTICE Mike, it says:
AND YOU SAID IN YOUR HEART…….!
LUCIFER WAS STILL AN ANGEL WITH HIS ENTIRE POWER AT HIS DISPOSITION!
AT THAT SPECIFIC MOMENT IN TIME LUCIFER DIDN’T REBEL YET BUT WAS WITHIN A CONFLICT! THAT CONFLICT, WHICH TOOK GOD KNOWS FOR HOW LONG, GENESIS 1:1 WAS CORRUPTED AND WAS REFLECTED PHYSICALLY IN CREATION, AS GOD WAS NOT 100% WITH HIM, AND CREATION LOST ITS SPIRITUAL STATE AND BECAME HARD LIKE OURS! LUCIFER BECAME AWARE OF THIS ONLY THEN, AND REBELLED, THAT’S ENOUGH SO I DON’T
CREATE
A NEW NOVEL!
Now Genesis 1:2 is the state of the FIRST world AFTER LUCIFER FLOODED IT
JOB:38:8 Who shut up the sea with doors,
when it broke forth as issuing out of the womb :
AND KILLED ALL CREATURES IN IT! DEPICTED IN
ISAIAH 45:18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens, (GENESIS 1;1, 2Peter 3:5)
God himself that formed the earth, and made it, the very maker thereof:( GENESIS 1:3…) he did not create it in vain:(GENESIS 1:1)he formed it to be inhabited.(GENESIS 1:1, GENESIS 1:3…) I am the Lord, and there is no other.
JUST BEFORE I COMMENCE MY NOVEL IN ORDER TO ANSWER YOURS, HEREUNDER IS QUITE AN INTERESTING EXPLANATION OF GENESIS 1 REGARDING THE USE OF THE WORDS
“CREATE” and “MAKE”
OF WHICH I AM ONLY POSTING PART OF IT AND ALSO I NEVER HAD THE LEAST KNOWLEDGE OF IT, BUT IN THE TASKBAR, I SIMPLY WROTE
“WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CREATE AND MAKE”!
Feburary 2009
Frank W. Nelte
THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN ‘CREATE’ AND ‘MAKE’ IN GENESIS 1
Many people tend to view the verb “to make” as a synonym for the verb “to create”. And in our English dictionary definitions these two verbs certainly do overlap to a considerable degree. In the Genesis account both these verbs are used. But while the meanings of the two Hebrew verbs involved here appear to many people to sometimes be synonymous, God very clearly did not intend these words to be viewed as synonyms in the context of Genesis 1. This becomes clear from a closer examination of the whole account.
Let’s examine the relevant words in this chapter.
THE HEBREW VERBS FOR “CREATE” AND FOR “MAKE”
The Hebrew verb translated as “create” is “bara”. It is used three times in chapter 1, in verses 1, 21 and 27. Here are the statements that use this verb:
GENESIS 1:1 = God CREATED the heavens and the earth.
GENESIS 1:21 = God CREATED all water creatures and all birds.
GENESIS 1:27 = God CREATED human beings.
The Hebrew verb translated as “made” is “asah”. This verb is used seven times in chapter 1, in verses
7, 11, 12, 16, 25, 26 and 31. Here are the statements that use this verb:
GENESIS 1:7 = God MADE the sky, the atmosphere.
GENESIS 1:11 = fruit trees are to MAKE (“yielding”) fruit after their kind.
GENESIS 1:12 = and so fruit trees MADE (“yielding”) fruit.
GENESIS 1:16 = God MADE two great lights.
GENESIS 1:25 = God MADE land animals after their kind.
GENESIS 1:26 = God said, let us MAKE man.
GENESIS 1:31 = God saw everything that He had MADE.
There are three things to take note of in these seven verses.
First of all, in verses 11 and 12 the Hebrew “asah” is somewhat disguised by being translated as “yielding”. These verses in fact contain two totally different and unrelated Hebrew verbs in each verse, which are unfortunately both translated into English in the KJV as “yielding”. Here is the text of verse 11 with the relevant Hebrew words inserted into the text. (The same two words apply to verse 12.)
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding (Hebrew “zara”) seed, and the fruit tree yielding (Hebrew “asah”) fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
The clearer correct translation here should read: “God said, let … the fruit tree MAKE fruit after his kind”,since every other occurrence of “asah” in this chapter is also translated as “made”.
[COMMENT: Here we need not concern ourselves with the meaning of “zara”.]
To make this quite clear: The translation “the fruit tree YIELDING fruit after his kind” conveys the correct meaning of the Hebrew text here. So in that sense this translation is not incorrect. The problem is that, in not showing the English language reader that this is simply the identical word elsewhere in the same context translated as “made”, it helps to HIDE the correct meaning of this Hebrew verb for “made”
(“asah”).
Verses 11-12 show that “make” is the appropriate verb to describe the biological process by which fruit trees produce fruits. Specifically, that process does NOT merit the verb “create”. Fruit trees do not “create” fruit. And this use of “asah” in verses 11-12 helps to clarify the meaning of “asah” in the other verses of this chapter.The second thing to take note of is that the use of the verb “made” in Genesis 1:31 seems to show that this verb may sometimes be used in a general way to include the meaning of “create”, though three verses later, in Genesis 2:3 the two verbs are both used together, to show that their meanings actually differ. Here is Genesis 2:3.
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
We can express the differences between these two Hebrew verbs as follows:
1) The Hebrew word for “create” implies bringing something new into existence by using only the Holy Spirit (the power of God) to do the creating.
2) The Hebrew word for “make” generally implies bringing something new into existence by working with, or making use of some things that were created previously. In other words, “making” generally presupposes that something used in the making process is already in existence before the new thing is “made”.
This meaning of “make” would be easier to recognize if here in verses 11-12 “asah” had been translated as “making” rather than as “yielding”, because such a translation would CLEARLY LINK IT TO THE OTHER VERSES WHERE THE VERB “MAKE” IS ALSO USED.NOW THE ABOVE HAS NOTHING TO DO IN RELATION TO MY PERCEPTION, FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT MY CONVINCING UNDERSTANDING IS THAT GOD NOT SIMPLY INFORMED US ONLY ABOUT HIS WORK IN CREATION BUT INTERMINGLED IN IT HE ALSO INFORMED US
ABOUT HIS PERSONAL HIDDEN SPIRITUAL WORK, Romans 1:20, IN RELATION TO THE TRUTH, AND ETERNAL LIFE!
FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT OUR HUMAN CREATION OF GENESIS 1:3….. OCCURRED AFTER LUCIFER’S REBELLION, THUS, WAS “CREATED, MADE, FORMED, AND ESTABLISHED, WITHIN THE CONCEPT BETWEEN LIGHT AND DARKNESS, BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL,
ANSWER MIKE,
HOW ON EARTH YOU GOT IT INTO YOUR MIND THAT GOD IN GENESIS 1:1
DIDN’T CREATE HEAVEN AND EARTH IN FULL, COMPLETE, PERFECT, AND INHABITED!
2Peter3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of,
that by the word of God the heavens were of OLD, (Gensis1:1)
and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: (GENESIS 1:9)
Thus as I already made clear ABOVE, GENESIS 1:3….. IS NOT THE SAME CREATION OF GENESIS 1:1 WHICH WAS ALL SPIRITUAL, WITHOUT SUN, STARS, MOON, SEA, AS WE KNOW THEM NOW, WITH RESPECT TO:
ECC. 1:9 What is it that hath been? the same thing that shall be. What is it that hath been done? the same that shall be done. 10Nothing under the sun is new, neither is any man able to say: Behold this is new: for it hath already gone before in the ages that were before us.
NEXT: MY NOVEL WITH YOUR CONSENT NOW, FOR A CHANGE
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
P
Well, We’re not applying 2 Peter 3:8 to Genesis 1, that’s for sure.
Because the SDA said so. And for Mike, because the earth is flat and way simpler than our current understanding of a universe that shows God’s eternal nature.
To be wise, we must know our limits. I am fully aware that I won’t win X-factor or the NBA anytime soon. So I don’t pretend that I am an authority on music or basketball. Likewise, I think you guys need to stop pretending that you are authorities of some kind with scripture. Clearly you aren’t. That is plain for all to see.
One of you has put his faith in a denomination instead of the Lord Jesus Christ himself because his gospel is to lead you to the SDA, and the other puts his faith in a flat earth that was constructed by an intelligent life form in 6 literal earth sun days before both the sun and man were created. That God is not proven to be eternal by nature as proven by the creation he believes in and touts.
Yes that sums it up. I don’t think you guys are going to change the world with this leaven.
I would like to add that is is okay to not be intelligent. That’s fine. But be wise is my advice. No excuses. Wisdom is the real gem and all can attain that. Intelligence is ability. It doesn’t make you a better person. Just don’t venture into things that you are not good at is my advice.
Clearly, God’s time and God’s timing is not like our experience of time
Hey Mike and Berean. People in the know understand that a day to God is not like a day to us. God made the cosmos in ‘days’ before man existed. But you guys feel the need to center God around your understanding and own limited experience. A day is 12 or 24 hours to you, thus it must be to God too. Where do you get this crazy idea from. On the surface, it smacks of arrogance. My advice is be humble and allow God his experience before the creation of man and realize that God’s ways are not our ways. God is not a man, so stop treating him like one.
We see in the whole bible that God’s time is different to our time. That peace treaty for a week, signed by what many say is the Antichrist, is likely not a single week or 7 literal days. The thing about scripture and prophecy in particular, is that much of it is not literal, but hidden in code and symbols. Often when scripture talks about God, it is stated using terms that our languages struggle to describe. But words used so God can impart an idea that we can understand. Those actual words are not to be taken absolutely 100% literally and 100% of the time. For example when Jesus returns with a sword in his mouth, then using your rules, we have to believe this literally, because the Bible says so would be your reasoning. Do you not think that attitude is a bit childish though? I think it is very childish. An analysis made by a 4 year old, at Sunday school level.
Given that, knowing that God is not like us and that scripture is not what you literally think it is or what it literally says, I am even open to thinking the Day of the Lord is not 12 or 24 hours as you would be forced to think. I can look at the evidence and not have to fit it or limit it toward the 12 hour day doctrine or 24 hour day doctrine. I have more than two choices. You guys have crippled yourself by only allowing two options.
I can let scripture teach me because I do not fix or limit things according to my own biases. I try to say, what is the scripture saying here. In Revelation for example, we are told that “the day of His wrath has come“, but reading further in Revelation, we see his wrath and judgments spans a greater time period than 12 or 24 hours. But you are stuck with 12 or 24 hours of God’s wrath. So your predefined doctrine affects your thinking on other subjects too.
Don’t forget this Mike? “But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
So the day of the Lord could begin with the return of Jesus and could extend a whole 1,000 years later and end at the close of the Millennium. I think it is possible given the time period of a day for God. But you are not allowed to look at the possibilities because if you did and found something different to what you are teaching, then your house of cards falls. Once you get to that stage, you are no longer a truth seeker and you will not improve and could very well go backwards.
To be a scholar or serious student of God’s word Mike and Berean, you need to not only understand patterns in scripture, but also be able to decode the symbols, the terms, and the times. I think you have seriously failed at this. And this is exacerbated by your complete lack of scientific understanding Mike. Your misconceptions in science has crossed over to biblical studies and has affected and permeated through your understanding of scripture to the point that you are not teaching the truth anymore IMO.
The thing about error, is that once you defend it, the dominoes start to fall, because everything is interconnected. At such a point, such a person is no longer useful for the kingdom, but becomes detrimental.
Hi Berean,
You: Hebrews 1 help us
Hebrews1 :10-11
And, Thou, Lord [Jesus], in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth;
and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
ME: With the above, we are still BLANK specifically!
Allow me to make it more clear for you, WHAT I MEANT!
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH!
Reading the above verse we are for sure that GOD BEFORE CREATION WAS ON HIS OWN, BY HIMSELF! IN WHAT STATE?
He was/is A SPIRIT being invisible abiding in pitch darkness!
Scripture:
1King 8:12 Then spake Solomon, The LORD said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.
Exodus 20:21 And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.
Psalm 18:11 11And he made darkness his covert, his pavilion round about him: dark waters in the clouds of the air.
From the above, we are sure that God’s presence occupied the entire infinite existence which was in pitch darkness, GOD’S ABODE! Right?
WHAT WOULD BE THE VERY FIRST ACTION BY GOD IN THAT KIND OF STATE OF PITCH DARKNESS?
STANDS TO REASON NO?
LIGHT!
THUS GOD TRANSFORMED HIMSELF AND BECAME LIGHT AND COVERED THE ENTIRE INFINITE EXISTENCE!
SCRIPTURE:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.
1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
Matthew 28:3 And his appearance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow.
You: THEREFORE THE FIRST STEP IN THE CREATION PROCESS IS THE HEAVEN AND EARTH AND NOT LIGHT.
Now as you can read from scripture the very first act before creation started was
THE LIGHT!
LET BE LIGHT MADE!
WHY MADE NOT CREATED!
TO CREATE ONLY EX-NIHILLO, OUT OF NOTHING!
BUT WHEN GOD PRONOUNCED LET BE LIGHT MADE HE DIDN’T CREATE THE LIGHT FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT
HE IS THE LIGHT ITSELF NO?
HE CAN NOT CREATE HIMSELF!
THUS HOW THIS LIGHT ORIGINATED THEN?
OBVIOUS, HE SIMPLY EMANATED HIS ONLY UNIQUE SUBSTANCE
HIS ENDLESS SPIRITS!
ORIGINALLY ENCLOSED WITHIN THE PITCH DARKNESS!
HENCE:
THE BIG BANG!
BY WHICH BANG THE ENTIRE INFINITE EXISTENCE BECAME LUMINOUS.
TILL THE REBELLION!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Mike,
You: Dang Carmel… why can’t your posts to ME be like that? At least this is one single incoherent statement instead of a 5000 word incoherent novel!
Mike, I tell you THEY ARE NOT INCOHERENT NOVELS AT ALL, AS THEY ARE NOT MINE IN THEIR ENTIRETY, BUT MOSTLY OLD REVELATIONS.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Carmel
I am surprised that you hide the fact that: there is the formless and empty and dark earth BEFORE THE LIGHT appears.
God enlightened the shapeless and empty and dark earth, which shows that the earth was created BEFORE THE LIGHT.THE FIRST ACT OF GOD IS THEREFORE TO CREATE A “FORMLESS AND EMPTY EARTH WITHOUT LIGHT”
THEN TO BRING LIGHT TO THIS SHAPELESS AND EMPTY AND DARK EARTH,
THEN SEPARATE LIGHT FROM DARKNESS…ETC
God bless
We’re just waiting for one time in the entire Bible where God talks about a specific NUMBER of days, but isn’t talking about literal 12 or 24 hour days.
Bwahaha! I’m not sure, but there might be this one time in Genesis where day one, day two, etc is mentioned, and we can decipher this rule? What a load of rubbish.
Most other days that are mentioned tend to be after the creation of man too. But Genesis 1 days are mostly before man was created. So days for God are like a thousand years. Simple stuff.
Proclaimer
“In Revelation for example, we are told that “the day of His wrath has come“, but reading further in Revelation, we see his wrath and judgments spans a greater time period than 12 or 24 hours. But you are stuck with 12 or 24 hours of God’s wrath.”
Me
It’s Proclaimer guessing we’re stuck with 12 or 24 hours of God’s wrath, NOT ME, I didn’t say anything about it…..
The expression “the great day of His wrath” is not to express a definite mathematical period of time, but to tell us that this day will come, it is inscribed in the prophetic timing, and it will come at the appointed time.
1) How will this wrath of God be expressed? and 2) how long will it last?
Let’s start with how long it will last(2)
God only knows how long this will last. So the problem is quickly solved. Anyway, to my knowledge, that’s what I believe.How will this anger express itself?
You certainly know that, I guess, but hey, let’s see what Revelation says.
We start at the end of chapter 15 then chap.16[5] And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:
[6] And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
[7] And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of THE WRATH OF GOD, who liveth for ever and ever.
[8] And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
Rev.16
[1] And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and POUR OUT THE VIALS OF THE WRATH OF GOD upon the earth.All of chapter 16 describes the outpouring of these plagues of God’s wrath.
But when and why will these plagues be poured out on the earth?
One of the reasons is revealed in verse 2
Rev.16
[2] And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.Rev.18
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her(BABYLON), my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of HER PLAGUES.
[5] For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.These plagues are only the first time of the wrath of God, because we are warned that the lake of fire and sulfur will be the last destination of those who will be lost FOREVER and who will be completely destroyed, and that after the thousand years. (Those who receive the mark of the beast are included)
Proclaimer, THE DAY OF GOD’S WRATH WILL BEGIN WHEN MEN HAVE USED OUT GOD’S PATIENCE, DESPITED, REJECTED HIS WARNINGS.
IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN THE RED LINE HAS BEEN CROSSED.SO TO RETURN TO THE LENGTH OF A DAY
ONLY THE CONTEXT ALLOWS US TO UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF THINGS. AND WHEN WE HAVE EXAMINED THE CONTEXT, CLOSE AND WIDER, YOU HAVE TO BE CONVINCED BY THE WEIGHT OF EVIDENCE.THE DAYS OF GOD’S CREATION ARE A UNIQUE EVENT…
HERE SHOULD NOT BE MISSED FOR THE INTERPRETATION BECAUSE THIS WOULD HAVE CONSEQUENCES MAY BE CATASTROPHIC.
MAY GOD KEEP US AND GIVE US HIS WISDOM
Carmel: Hi Mike… are YOU ready for the longest NOVEL I EVER WROTE ON HEAVEN NET?
Um… no. I beg of you, please… have mercy on us all! Don’t do it, man! 😂
Carmel: GENESIS 1:1 IS A COMPLETE CREATION OF HEAVEN AND EARTH PERFECT AND INHABITED BY HUMAN-LIKE CREATURES /GIANTS, AND AT A CERTAIN MOMENT IN TIME BECAME CORRUPTED. HINTED OUT IN
ISAIAH 14:13And thou saidst in thy heart:
I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will sit in the mountain of the covenant, in the sides of the north. 14I will ascend above the height of the clouds, I will be like the most High.
Isaiah 14 doesn’t support your claim that there was a previous heaven/earth that was perfect. For example, in Is 14 there are “the cedars of Lebanon”. Was there also a region called Lebanon in the previous earth that was also famous for its cedars – just like in the current earth? Is 14 also mentions Sheol and the spirits of the dead. Why was there a Sheol in this “perfect spiritual earth”? Why were there dead people?
Carmel: GENESIS 1:3 IS NOT THE SAME CREATION OF GENESIS 1:1 WHICH WAS ALL SPIRITUAL, WITHOUT SUN, STARS, MOON, SEA, AS WE KNOW THEM NOW…
You say the first heaven/earth was without stars, but then quote a part of Isaiah 14 where the protagonist is exalting his throne above the stars of God.
(And how exactly does someone try to place their throne “above the stars of God – on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the North” in the heliocentric model of the universe? What would that even mean? Where exactly would such a throne be located? Where is this mountain in the far reaches of the North that rises above the stars of God? 🤔)
Carmel: Now Genesis 1:2 is the state of the FIRST world AFTER LUCIFER FLOODED IT
No. You’re just making things up.
Carmel: THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN ‘CREATE’ AND ‘MAKE’ IN GENESIS 1…
1) The Hebrew word for “create” implies bringing something new into existence by using only the Holy Spirit (the power of God) to do the creating.
2) The Hebrew word for “make” generally implies bringing something new into existence by working with, or making use of some things that were created previously.I read what the source you quoted said, and can refute it with many different scriptures… including this one:
Genesis 1:26-27… Then God said, Let us make man in Our image… So God created man in His own image…
Man was both “made” and “created” by God. And according to the conclusion put forth by your source, fish and birds were “created” using only the Holy Spirit, but the animals of the field were “made” of things that previously existed.
I could go on with many other scriptures that refute his conclusion, but suffice it to say that the Hebrew words for “create” and “make” are simply two different words they used to convey the same thing – just as we use those two English words (and dozens more synonyms) to convey the same thing in our language and culture.
So Carmel, now that you know this fact, you can no longer argue that the word “made” in Exodus 31:17 means something different than the word “create” in Gen 1:1. And that means it’s time for you to actually ANSWER my question…
Exodus 31:16-17… The Israelites must keep the Sabbath… for in six days the LORD made the heaven and the earth, but on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.
Carmel (and Proclaimer and Gene), Yahweh Himself wrote the above down on a tablet of stone with His own finger. Please list for us the two specific things that He said He made within a six day period. I’ve underlined the two things to make it easier for you. Please list them for us now.
Proclaimer: Just don’t venture into things that you are not good at is my advice.
It’s a little too late for you to take your own advice now, isn’t it? You found yourself right smack dab in the middle of the battle before you even realized that you had ventured into something you weren’t good at. Just so you know, that was by design. And I even warned you – after the juvenile games you played with Isaiah’s circle of the earth and the tree and mountain that could be seen from the entire earth – that I was going to bring you to your knees, didn’t I? And it wasn’t for pride that I have crushed you – but because I am zealous for the LORD. The teachings that He Himself laid out for us in His written word are not to be toyed with by the likes of you.
This particular teaching was written by Yahweh’s own finger onto a tablet of stone:
Exodus 31:16-17… The Israelites must keep the Sabbath… for in six days the LORD made the heaven and the earth, but on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.
Proclaimer, please list for us the two specific things that Yahweh Himself said that He made within a six day period. I’ve underlined them to make it easier for you. Please PROCLAIM those two things to us now – O Great Proclaimer.
(You can’t hide from me. I’m not going away. And neither are the 20 direct questions I’ve asked in the past month. You have avoided them thus far, but I’ll just keep posting them until you finally gird up your loins like a man and answer them.)
Proclaimer Can’t Say That I Didn’t Warn Him Ahead
Of Time That I Would Bring Him To His Knees
Thus began the Genesis 1 discussion that has exposed T8 as more of a Tricky-Talker and Hider than a “Proclaimer”. And now he is on his knees, slinging ad hominem attacks because it is all he has left. It’s actually all he has ever had.
“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
– Socrates
Mike…..I though would cop out and not answer, my question, by saying we haven’t answered your, which is not true because we have over and over here. CAN’T help it if you unable to comprehend thzt.
But back to my ‘Sinple’ question, Did Adam and Eve “DIE” on the 24 hr period day, AFTER they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Or did they “DIE” within a thousand year period, as all human flesh sense then has?
So we can say “a thousand years equals a day with God, and a day equals a thousand years, RIGHT?
peace and love to you and yours Mike. ………gene
Hi Berean,
You: Hi Carmel
I am surprised that you hide the fact that: there is the formless and empty and dark earth BEFORE THE LIGHT appears.
Berean, I’m afraid somehow my message didn’t work, Read again:
Allow me to make it more clear for you, WHAT I MEANT!
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH!
Reading the above verse we are for sure aware, that GOD BEFORE CREATION WAS ON HIS OWN, BY HIMSELF! IN WHAT STATE?
I WAS CLEAR ENOUGH AND I ONLY REFERRED TO Genesis 1:1 No?
NOW IN GENESIS 1:1 BEFORE GOD CREATED ANYTHING,
He was/is A SPIRIT being invisible abiding in pitch darkness! WITH RESPECT TO
Scripture:
1King 8:12 Then spake Solomon, The LORD said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.
Exodus 20:21 And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.
Psalm 18:11 11And he made darkness his covert, his pavilion round about him: dark waters in the clouds of the air.
From the above, we are sure that God’s presence occupied the entire infinite existence which
IN GENESIS 1:1
IT was in pitch darkness, GOD’S ABODE! Right?
WHAT WOULD BE THE VERY FIRST ACTION BY GOD IN THAT KIND OF STATE OF PITCH DARKNESS?
STANDS TO REASON NO?
LIGHT!
THUS, FIRST AND FOREMOST, IN GENESIS 1:1 BEFORE CREATION,
GOD TRANSFORMED HIMSELF AND BECAME LIGHT AND COVERED THE ENTIRE INFINITE EXISTENCE!
SCRIPTURE:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.
1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
Matthew 28:3 And his appearance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow.
BEREAN, ALL THE ABOVE IS RELATED TO THE VERY BEGINNING
John1:1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
WHEN GOD WAS ALL BY HIMSELF EVEN BEFORE GENESIS 1:1 OCCURRED! AND AS YOU CAN READ THE ONLY ACT WHICH OCCURRED WAS GOD’S STATE, BY WHICH STATE HE BECAME
THE LIGHT,
THE PRIMORDIAL LIGHT! John1:1
AND ENLIGHTENED THE ENTIRE INFINITE EXISTENCE!
AND
GENESIS 1:2 IN VIEW OF THE ABOVE,
IT DIDN’T OCCUR YET!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Gene: Did Adam and Eve “DIE” on the 24 hr period day…
I already answered that question – quite extensively I might add – about a week or so ago. In short, the Hebrew word “die” is written twice in a row – and can be translated as, “In the day you eat of it, dying you shall die.”
My conclusion (among the many possibilities I included in that previous post) is that Adam and Eve’s genetic material began to decay in the very 24-hour day that they ate of the fruit. In other words, their journey towards death began on that very day, and culminated in their actual deaths many years later.
Please don’t bear false witness against me by saying I didn’t answer something that I spent an hour answering. Thanks. And please don’t bear false witness about yourself by saying that you did answer something that you didn’t. Thanks.
Here’s one of the questions you keep refusing to answer…
Exodus 20:9-11… Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God, on which you must not do any work… For in six days the LORD made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all that is in them, but on the seventh day He rested.
Gene, please list for us the four things that are specifically listed by Yahweh as things that are INCLUDED within the same six days of creation. I’ve underlined them to make it easier for you.
See, you and Proclaimer and Carmel have all claimed that the creation of heaven and earth in Gen 1:1 is somehow separate from the six days of creation that followed. You have no scriptural reason for this claim – but claim it only because it allows you to add in billions of Scientism years between 1:1 and 1:3.
But God Himself has corrected you guys in both Ex 20 and in Ex 31 by saying very plainly that heaven and earth were INCLUDED in those six days of creation.
Of course you know this, right? You know already that what you guys claim goes directly against what Yahweh Himself claimed, right? And that’s why this is the 6th time I’m asking you the same question, right? And you know that not ONE OF YOU has answered it – because you know if you answer it honestly, you’ll no longer be able to claim the thing that is contrary to what Yahweh taught us, right?
Hmm… I truly hope that I never allow myself to get into a position where my pride causes me to directly contradict what my Creator clearly stated.
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