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Proclaimer: One way to interpret this is that he created all things in 6 stages. Stages that are not how you understand them. That is, a day as measured by the sun.
Is there any scriptural reason for you to assume that the days before the creation of the sun were any different than all other days have been since the creation of the sun? They all had periods of light called “day” and periods of darkness called “night”, right? They all had an evening and a morning, right? God didn’t change the word they were called, or tell us there was anything different between the first three days and those that followed the creation of the sun, did He? He just named them as day one, day two, day three, day four, day five, and day six, right?
And to top it off, God actually wrote on a tablet with His own finger that the Israelites were to work six days and rest on the seventh BECAUSE He created our world in six days and rested on the seventh, right?
What reason would God have to tell the Israelites to work six 24-hour days and rest on the seventh because He worked for six “million year time periods” (each of them called a “day”, and each of then consisting of a single period of light and a single period of darkness and a single morning and a single evening) and rested on the seventh?
Is there any Biblical evidence to suggest that the people to whom God related His own account of His own creation thought that the six time periods He called “days” were any different than what they already understood a “day” to be? Is there any scriptural evidence to suggest that anyone in the entire Bible thought such a thing as what you are suggesting?
So if you want to suggest that some of the six days of creation are different lengths than others, you should probably offer up some scriptural evidence to support that suggestion, don’t you think? Can you do that? And if not, why would you even entertain such a notion?
That’s a serious question for you, Proclaimer. WHY would you entertain such a notion when there’s nothing in the entire Bible to suggest what you are suggesting?
Proclaimer: One way to interpret this is that he created all things in 6 stages.
Or we could interpret it in the most natural and rational way it could be understood: God created the heaven, the earth, the sea, and all that is in them in six literal 24-hour days, right? Do you accept that as one of the possible interpretations, Proclaimer?
Proclaimer: This is a reasonable assumption given that your view places the creation of the sun on the fourth day anyway, so why measure a day that is calculated by a celestial object that hasn’t been created yet.
How can you call it a “reasonable assumption” when there is no Biblical reason to assume it? Listen…
1. God calls all six time periods “days”.
2. All six periods have a daytime and a nighttime.
3. All six periods have a single morning, and a single evening.
4. God never changes the name or the description of those “days”.
5. God then equates those six “days” to six 24-hour days in His commandment on the sabbath.
6. There is no scriptural indication that anyone in the Bible ever thought that the first six days of creation were anything other than the 24-hour days that they had all experienced.
You’re waging a war against the scriptures that you can’t possibly win, Proclaimer. And what do you mean by, “your view places the creation of the sun on the fourth day anyway”? It’s not “my view”. It’s exactly what the scriptures teach.
Can you deny that the scriptures teach that God not only MADE the sun, moon, and stars – but also PLACED them in the firmament of the heaven – all on the fourth day?
So there is no scriptural possibility that they already existed in their heavenly places – because God both MADE them and PLACED them in their spots on the fourth day.
Please refute me using scripture if I am wrong here. Otherwise, acknowledge that what I’m saying is exactly what the scriptures teach.
Mike…..Please answer this question ok, did Adam and Eve Die in the “DAY”, ( a 24 hour period) after they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? If not then God was speaking of a different time period then a 24 hour time period, right?
We are clearly told in scripture, A day in God’s time, equals a thousand years and a thousand years equals a day. From this we should know God’s time is not the same as ours, right?
Another point is you said God created “the” heaven, and “the” earth, and “the” things therein, in six days right? please notice the definite article used there, because that means it is talking about a specific thing like this earth and our specific heaven, and the things “in’ this earth, not about all the heavens and all the planets in them, As Genesis 1 , is speaking of. My point, by Use-of the definite Article, “the” it is referencing a “specific ” thing, not other heavens and planets, not whole universe as a whole, as Genesis 1 is talk about. I believe God took what was already here make from it what now exists ,even mankind was made from what already existed. IMO
peace and love you and yours Mike……..gene
Proclaimer: And that first stage / day could be billions of years for all we know. Further, there is nothing to say that each day was the exact amount of time in units as you assume.
I see. So even though God called them ALL “days” and they EACH had a period of light, a period of darkness, a morning, and an evening – the length of one could have been as much as 10 billion years longer than the length of another? Kind of like Mondays could last 100 years, Tuesdays are 6 minutes long, Wednesdays are 10 billion years in length, Thursdays are 24 hours, etc… but each of them have a single evening and a single morning – and each of them have one period of daylight and one period of nighttime? 😅
And what’s worse, you are so accustomed to tricky talk that it’s nothing for you to suggest that I’M the one making an irrational assumption while YOU’RE the one simply reasoning things out. 😂
Proclaimer, do the lengths of “days” differ by millions or billions of years today? Is there any scriptural reason for you to assume that a unit of time called a “day” can sometimes be a billion years and other times be a few hours? Is there any scriptural reason for you to assume that God would tell the Israelites to rest after every six literal 24-hour “days” because He created the world and everything in it in six “days” – when in reality, some of those “days” were billions of years and others were only millions of years, but not one of them was the literal 24-hour “day” that the Israelites understood Him to be talking about?
Dude, you’re too much. You’re just pulling all kinds of unscriptural crap out of your ass while implying that WE are the nutjobs for assuming that a unit of time called a “day” is always the same unit of time!
God even condemned the Israelites for using crooked scales…
Leviticus 19:35-36… You shall do no wrong in judgment, in measurement of weight, or capacity. You shall have just balances, just weights, a just ephah, and a just hin; I am the LORD your God, who brought you out from the land of Egypt.
Proverbs 20:10… Differing weights and differing measures, Both of them are abominable to the LORD.
I wonder if God would be cool with someone saying he’ll work six days for another man to earn $50, but then after only a day he tells the man who hired him that his “days” are only 4 hours long, therefore his work is complete. 😁
Yet this is the God that you think would create something called a “day” that everyone thinks is 24 hours, but then use that very unit of time to describe six “billion year periods” (or worse… one 10 billion year period followed by a 600 million year period followed by a 2 billion year period, etc) – knowing full well that the people He’s talking to are thinking He means six 24-hour periods.
And on top of that… WE’RE the crazy ones for assuming that when God said “days”, He actually meant “days”. 😉
Proclaimer: After all, if they were all 24 hours, then he did, 99.9999999999999999… % on the first day in comparison to the next days. So why not just do it all in one day?
How did you come up with that figure? The first day was a heaven and earth that was basically just a big blob of water – and then light. The following days consisted of many more things than that. 🤔
Proclaimer: It is written that God is not a man… Yet somehow, you would have us believe that he has 24 hour days like us?
I don’t know how God experiences our 24-hour days, but that has nothing to do with our discussion. Jesus told us that nobody can snatch things out of God’s hand, right? Yet despite that, God understands how WE feel when people take our stuff, and even laid down rules about theft, right? God isn’t needy, but understands how needy people feel, right?
Likewise, regardless of how God personally experiences 24-hour days, He knows how WE understand the word “day”, and what that word means to US, right? So why would God tell US that He created the heaven and earth in six “days” – knowing full well how WE’D understand that word – when He actually created it in six very long time periods? He could have simply told us that He created the heaven and earth in 10 billion years and then terraformed the earth over the following 4.5 billion years, right? And why on earth would God say they were six “days” when none of the six were even close to the same length as the others? 🤔
Your point is not only nonsensical, but moot. Because how God experiences days doesn’t change the fact that God knows OUR definition of “day”, and would therefore naturally use OUR definition of it when talking to US about it.
Genesis 7:4… “For after seven more days, I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights; and I will wipe out from the face of the land every living thing that I have made.”
Imagine if poor Noah had to figure out if God was talking about people days, or “God days” that last millions and sometimes billions of years. 🤣
Proclaimer: “But you must not forget this one thing, dear friends: A day is like a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is like a day.”
I think you have forgotten this one thing Mike. You should correct this.
1. What is the context of Peter’s statement? He is talking about people saying that God will never fix things, because everything just keeps going on the same way as it always has. Peter is suggesting that even if it takes God 3000 more years to act, God is not procrastinating, because those 3000 years for us may seem like only 3 days to God.
2. Again, as per my previous post, Peter’s metaphorical musing doesn’t affect our current discussion in the least – because regardless of how God personally experiences “days”, He still knows our definition of a “day”, and will use that definition when talking to us about “days”.
3. This verse still doesn’t help you align Genesis with Scientism unless you think the six days of creation were six one thousand year periods. Plus, the sun and stars would still have been created 4000 years after the heaven and the earth, and a 1000 years after vegetation. And there would be a 500 year period of light and a 500 year period of darkness during each “thousand year day”.
4. When God told Noah the flood would begin in 7 “days”, surely Noah didn’t have to wait 7000 years.
So no, this metaphorical statement by Peter, designed to encourage others to not fall away from the faith because they think God is taking too long, doesn’t help you in this discussion at all.
Proclaimer: Another interpretation is that the 6 days of creation is talking about the things he did after he said ‘Now’ in Genesis 1:1.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
So creation of our world and view of the heavens could be simply referring to the ground we stand on (as the planet was once watery) and the view of the heavens we see in the vault. So the heavens here could have been made visible to us within the six days of creation after the heavens and earth were already established.
1. The word “Now” isn’t in the Hebrew.
2. Already asked and answered. In Ex 20, God tells us that the heaven and earth were part of the things He created in the same six days. In Ex 31, God wrote with His own finger on a tablet that the heaven and earth are what He created in six days.
3. Already asked and answered. There is no language in Gen 1:14-19 to suggest that the sun and stars already existed – but were “made visible to us”… especially when there was still 2 days left before there was an Adam – let alone an “us”. Instead, the language of that passage is very clear that God CREATED the sun and the stars and PLACED them in the firmament of heaven on the fourth day.
4. You keep calling them “interpretations”, but these mental gymnastics you’re going through in your desperate effort to align the Bible with Scientism are NOT “interpretations”, Proclaimer. You’re not actually looking at the Hebrew words and “interpreting” them in various manners. You’re just spouting any random thing you can think of to keep your Scientism worldview from crumbling before your eyes.
“The Bible says God CREATED the sun on the fourth day”. “Well, maybe the sun was already in existence before that, and by ‘created’, God meant that He allowed the sun to shine on the fourth day.”
“God said that the heaven and earth were included in the things He CREATED in a six day period.” “Well, maybe that means the heaven and earth and stars already existed, and He just terraformed the earth in six one billion year periods that He for some reason called days.”
You are not “interpreting” the Hebrew scriptures in a way that they actually TEACH any of these things. You are just slinging a bunch of crap on the wall in the hopes that one of your turds will stick.
You have become like Gene, insisting that even though Jesus says he was alongside God in heaven before the world began, it really means that “the thought of Jesus in God’s mind” was with God – not Jesus himself.
You are like Kathi, insisting that although Jesus is the son, servant, priest, holy one, sacrificial lamb, mediator and prophet OF God, he can also somehow BE the very God he is all those things OF.
In other words, you are embarrassing yourself. Please just come out and clearly acknowledge that – according to the Bible – God created the heaven, the earth, the sea, and everything in them in what the Israelites He was talking to would have understood as six literal days. Please acknowledge that – according to the Bible – God told the Israelites that He CREATED the sun on the fourth literal day of creation.
It’s time for you to stop embarrassing yourself and come to terms with the FACT that the Bible will NEVER align with Scientism – no matter how much crap you fling against the wall.
Proclaimer: Your theory which I will call the ‘Youth Group Sunday School Theory for Kids who have Flat Earth Parents’ starts with nothing except God…
Yes. In the beginning there was at one time only God Himself. Of course that is a no-brainer, because anything else that was already existing along with God would also be from eternity. Is that what you believe? That God AND many other things are all from eternity? If not, then the “Youth Group Sunday School Theory for Kids who have Flat Earth Parents” is so far spot on.
Proclaimer: Then God created a flat pizza world in 6 days and created the planets and stars later on in a glass giant dome that he lowered down on top of the pizza…
Close. He created a flat pizza world in 6 days and created the sun, moon, and stars later on (there is no such thing as a “planet”, and the sun is not a star) and placed them in the vaulted dome of the firmament. The dome could not have been lowered down on top of the pizza, because the firmament was created to separate the waters above from the waters below. Lowering a dome down on top of waters that hadn’t yet been separated would have contained all of the waters below the dome. As it is, there are still waters below the firmament, and waters above the firmament of heaven…
Psalm 148:4… Praise him, you highest heavens, and you waters above the heavens!
So no “outer space” out there, but waters. 👍
Proclaimer: I say laid down because up and down are a universal thingamajig for some reason…
Yes, up and down are indeed a universal (“consisting of all things”) thingamajig in the world God created for us. God’s throne is up, while Sheol and the great deep are down. I don’t understand the “for some reason” comment you made – as it would seem very weird for any of us to not experience an “up” and a “down” in everyday life. 🤔
Proclaimer: While there is the issue of fossilized dinosaurs to contend with…
Ooh… I’d love to get into that discussion. This is how I hoped this thread would progress, and why I didn’t want you to separate the Genesis aspect into a different thread. But before we go there, let’s finish up on how the Biblical account of creation can’t in any way imaginable align with the Scientism account of how the world and all the living things in it came to be.
Anyway, so far it’s clear that the “Youth Group Sunday School Theory for Kids who have Flat Earth Parents” is kicking ass and taking names because of its perfect alignment with what the Bible actually teaches. Maybe that’s what you should name the thread! 😉😁
Proclaimer: Mike, what do you think of this evidence for Big Foot?
What did YOU think about it? Why not give me the timestamps that I should check out – the ones that purport to be empirical evidence – and I’ll check it out when I have the time and urge to do so. I’ve never looked into “Bigfoot” – even a little bit. I know very little about the subject except for the hazy 1960’s camera footage of what looked to be a tall dude in an orangutan suit that most of us have seen.
But yeah, if there is solid evidence of something, I don’t just automatically write it off or laugh at the people presenting the evidence. I’d have to take a good hard look AT the evidence and then make up my own mind about whether or not the premise is plausible and the evidence supports it well enough.
It’s the same way I approach all conspiracy theories. If the actual evidence supports it, then it’s more likely than not an actual conspiracy. For example, we all know that if you inflate a balloon and then pop it, the pressurized air inside the balloon doesn’t just stay there pressurized, right? It IMMEDIATELY equalizes with the air pressure around it. This is the second law of thermodynamics… also called “entropy”. It was the skin of the balloon that allowed a high pressure system to exist within a low pressure system. Once the skin is breached or removed, the two systems will combine and equalize. Everybody can easily understand this concept – especially scientists. In fact, there is an axiom in science that says “nature abhors a vacuum”. If an event occurs that creates a space with lower pressure than its surroundings, the higher pressure surrounding this vacuum will IMMEDIATELY begin to flow in until the pressure inside and outside of that space is equalized.
Yet the heliocentric model claims that the earth is a pressurized system existing directly adjacent to – not a slightly lower pressure system – but to the most powerful vacuum ever imagined by man. And there is no barrier that separates these two systems. They just exist side by side.
Now if that sounds plausible to you – knowing what you do about popping balloons – then there’s no reason for you to look into it any further. It didn’t sound plausible to me, and so I have looked into it further.
And that – in a nutshell – is the difference between a Biblical earther and a heliocentric believer. I have learned all the same things about our world from Scientism that you have. I could just as easily copy, paste, blindly believe, and parrot whatever story I can find on the NASA website and be “science literate” if I wanted to. But when things don’t add up on the surface, I’m simply not one to just blindly accept what someone else is telling me. I want to examine the evidence, research it for myself, and draw my own conclusions.
So while it’s easy for people like Proclaimer to gain the acceptance of their peers by immediately scoffing at and ridiculing any Bigfoot claims or evidence without even looking into them, I can’t bring myself to do that without performing at least a cursory examination of the data.
Likewise, Proclaimer must scoff at and ridicule any of us who accept the undeniable fact that the Bible teaches a six literal day creation – because to do otherwise would make him the subject of ridicule from those he deems “the cool kids”, or the “smart kids”.
John 12:43… For they loved praise from men more than praise from God.
I don’t have that problem. Let all men scoff at me and ridicule me. I will stand on exactly what the Bible teaches – no matter what new story Scientism is spreading on any given day.
Mike , but this, we do know, Gen 1:1 says God created the heavens and the earth , before he every said , anyhing about the earth or of the time he did it in, and he did say the earth was without form and void when his spirit hovered over it which shows it was already here. So to asume all that was indeed here, before he started dealing with the earth is not contrary to scriptures. If you were able to follow the events , spoken of in Genesis 1, correctly, you could understand that.
Why haven’t you answered my last post I wrote you? Is it because you can’t?
Proclaimer, is right you can’t establish by scripture that the earth was not already existing nor that light did not also exist at the time of creation either, even if it wasn’t hitting the surface of the earth yet.
You are unable to prove you point, just as your “FLAT EARTH” theories don’t prove the earth is flat either, we have appsolute proof being given us ever second of the day , by THE “INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION” orbiting this earth taking pictures 24/7, that proves you wrong. You haven’t even admitted your wrong about that yet. Calling what we say as dung, only shows your inability to entertain others point of viwes, “bad form”, Mike.
Peace and love to you and yours Mike……….gene
Gene: Mike…..Please answer this question ok, did Adam and Eve Die in the “DAY”, ( a 24 hour period) after they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? If not then God was speaking of a different time period then a 24 hour time period, right?
It’s hard to know for sure about that one, Gene. The Hebrew says, “in the day you eat of it, dying you will die”. (The word “die” is listed twice in a row in the Hebrew.) So was God saying that Adam and Eve (who were not created immortal like the gods, but also weren’t yet subject to death either) would BEGIN to die on the very 24-hour day they ate of the fruit? That’s what I think.
Or was God using “day” (like He often did and we all do) to mean an unspecified time period, as in “back in the day of Abraham Lincoln” or whatever?
Unfortunately, we simply aren’t given enough evidence to make that call – but it does seem odd to say something like “back in the day of Abraham Lincoln” before that “day” ever took place, right?
There’s also the possibility that God meant the very 24-hour day, but then repented and showed them mercy and allowed them to live on so they could fulfill His command of being fruitful and multiplying humans… and it just wasn’t included in the text.
It’s kind of weird that it isn’t explained by Moses too. Because it’s not like everyone in Moses’ day just automatically thought that when God said “day” He meant a thousand years, right? Yet Moses doesn’t explain why they ate of the fruit but lived on for hundreds of years afterwards.
So the best option for me is that the two consecutive Hebrew words “die” should be translated as “dying, you will die” – meaning that their genetic decay towards eventual death began on that very day.
Gene: We are clearly told in scripture, A day in God’s time, equals a thousand years and a thousand years equals a day. From this we should know God’s time is not the same as ours, right?
See my argument to Proclaimer on this subject. It is 6 posts above this one. In short, we don’t know how God experiences days, but Peter was certainly not trying to say that exactly every thousand years that go by on earth God counts as a single day in heaven.
Also, God has prophesied and talked about various “days” to human beings for thousands of years. For example, He didn’t warn Noah that the flood would begin in 7 days – meaning in 7000 years, right? Likewise, when God told Adam and Eve that they would die “in the day” that they ate of the fruit, there is no reason to think that Adam and Eve somehow knew that God meant “one of MY days, so basically within a thousand years”.
When God uses the term “day” (that He created) to human beings, He does so to make them understand something about a certain period of time. He wouldn’t confuse them by meaning “a thousand years”, knowing full well that they were understanding it as a 24-hour day, right? I mean, why even bother to tell them what was going to happen in, say, 7 days if the humans never knew whether He meant 7 24-hour days or 7000 years, right?
And in the times that God does say things like, “back in the day of Noah”, it’s clear from the context that He’s talking about an unspecified time period – just like it’s clear to you now if I talk about “back in the day of Abraham Lincoln”.
So no, Peter’s metaphorical teaching that God doesn’t experience days like we do doesn’t mean that when God tells us that He created the heaven and the earth in 6 days He really meant in 6 one thousand year periods. Nor would 6 one thousand year periods align with the Scientism story you believe about the beginning of our world and its age anyway, right?
So the “thousand year” thing doesn’t help you in the least. Nor does the Adam and Eve thing. When God speaks to us about days, He is using the definition that we all use – the very definition HE came up with in the first place.
Gene: Mike , but this, we do know, Gen 1:1 says God created the heavens and the earth , before he every said , anyhing about the earth or of the time he did it in, and he did say the earth was without form and void when his spirit hovered over it which shows it was already here. So to asume all that was indeed here, before he started dealing with the earth is not contrary to scriptures. If you were able to follow the events , spoken of in Genesis 1, correctly, you could understand that.
That’s worded very poorly, and so it was hard for me to understand. But I think the gist is that there is nothing in the scriptures to say that the heaven and the earth didn’t already exist before the six days. This has been asked and answered a hundred times, Gene. I have given you TWO different comprehension tests that you have ignored. I even posted the first one a SECOND TIME for you, saying that you would just ignore it a second time. And that’s exactly what you did, right? So here they are for a THIRD TIME. If you ignore them again, then go away and talk to someone else. I don’t mind discussing this stuff with you, but I get VERY annoyed when you constantly pop into a thread and make some claims, and then disappear for a while after I refute your claims… only to pop back in with the SAME claims a week or so later. So PLEASE answer the tests this time!
Exodus 20:9-11… Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God, on which you must not do any work… For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth and the sea and all that is in them, but on the seventh day He rested.
Gene, please list all of the things that God said He made within a six day period. I’ve underlined them for you.
Exodus 31:17… It is a sign between Me and the Israelites forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, but on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.
Gene, please list all of the things that God said He made within a six day period. I’ve underline them for you.
Now, if you fail for the third time to address these scriptures (which REFUTE your claim that the heaven and the earth could have already existed before the six days), then don’t ever bring the subject up to me again.
Gene: Why haven’t you answered my last post I wrote you? Is it because you can’t?
I just did. I go through the posts from oldest to newest – answering them as I go. I answered your previous post when I got to it. And hopefully you’ll see from my response that your “thousand year day” theory isn’t going to save you from having to acknowledge that the Bible will NEVER align with the billions of years old heliocentric worldview that you learned from Scientism. You can either accept that fact, or keep your head in the sand and keep pretending.
Gene: Proclaimer, is right you can’t establish by scripture that the earth was not already existing nor that light did not also exist at the time of creation either, even if it wasn’t hitting the surface of the earth yet.
God CREATED the heaven, the earth, light, day, and night ON the very first day of creation. This is what the scriptures teach, and what God Himself wrote down on a stone tablet with His own finger.
Time to move forward…
Genesis 1… 9And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered into one place, so that the dry land may appear.” And it was so. 10God called the dry land “earth,” and the gathering of waters He called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
11Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth vegetation: seed-bearing plants and fruit trees, each bearing fruit with seed according to its kind.” And it was so. 12The earth produced vegetation: seed-bearing plants according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
13And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
14And God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of heaven to distinguish between the day and the night, and let them be signs to mark the seasons and days and years. 15And let them serve as lights in the firmament of heaven to shine upon the earth.” And it was so.
16God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night. And He made the stars as well.
17God set these lights in the firmament of heaven to shine upon the earth, 18to preside over the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
19And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
What do we learn from this passage?
1. God created the dry land (or made it appear if you prefer) on the VERY SAME DAY that He created vegetation of ALL KINDS. This was on the third day.
Proclaimer and Gene, does Scientism allow for all kinds of vegetation, including fruiting plants, to cover the earth on the very first day that dry ground appeared? Yes or No?
2. God MADE the sun, moon and the stars and PLACED them into the firmament of heaven on the fourth day.
Proclaimer and Gene, does Scientism allow for the sun and stars coming into existence 3 days (of whatever lengths you choose them to be) after the earth already existed? Yes or No?
Does Scientism allow for the sun and stars coming into existence a full day (of whatever length you choose it to be) after vegetation – including fruiting trees? Yes or No?
The obvious answer to all three questions is “NO”. In the off chance that you’ll answer them at all AND give the correct answer…
Proclaimer and Gene, since Scientism and the Bible are irreconcilably contradictory on these subjects, which account is the truth?
How did you come up with that figure? The first day was a heaven and earth that was basically just a big blob of water – and then light. The following days consisted of many more things than that.
Buy a powerful telescope look at the eternal nature of the cosmos. And wait for the images that will come in from the James Webb telescope. Also take a look at Hubble’s deep field image. That is arguably the most mind blowing photo ever taken in history.
Fighting against reality and truth will see you come off second best.
What do we learn from this passage?
That God created the heavens and the earth in the beginning. Then the heavenly objects could be seen in the vault. (He set them 8n the vault). So you can now see the celestial objects including the sun and moon which God created. The sun, moon, and earth are part of the heavens and earth that he created at the very beginning. You can’t say that the sun, moon, and earth are not part of the heavens and earth.
Nothing here is evidence that God created a flat earth and dropped a glass dome onto this disc. That interpretation seems Stone Age, maybe Wood Age if there is a such thing.
We know that knowledge shall increase and in deed it has. We can see live images of the cosmos that reveals God’s eternal nature. You cannot limit an eternal God to your limited view of the cosmos.
Hi Mike,
You: I’m not interested in these things unless you can show me in scripture that there was a Lucifer rebellion before God created the heaven and the earth.
OF Genesis 1:3…..
I know you hate novels BUT HOW ON EARTH CAN ONE TALK ABOUT GOD’S MYSTERIES WITHOUT THEM? THE FACT THAT EVEN HE HIMSELF WROTE THEM AND STILL WRITING THEM!
I am more than convinced that Genesis 1:1 is the first kind of creation, which was ALL SPIRITUAL DESPITE IT MENTIONS THE EARTH! EARTH WAS NOT MORTAL IN GENESIS 1:1 IT WAS ALL SPIRITUAL DESPITE PHYSICAL! LUCIFER INTRODUCED DEATH, THE MURDERER FROM THE BEGINNING, AND MADE IT SO, LOST ITS SPIRITUAL STATE, AND BECAME HARD AS IT IS NOW BY HIS DELUGE. THE FACT THAT JESUS CAME AND SPIRITUALIZED ALL ANEW IN HIMSELF!
Also, there was no sun, stars, moon, and sea the way we know them now! The creation of Genesis 1:1 was corrupted, and Genesis 1:2 is the state of the earth by Lucifer’s first-ever deluge of the earth, which lost its spiritual state through SIN!
1John3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil: for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose, the Son of God appeared, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
SPECIFICALLY, In Genesis 1:14 the sun, the moon, and the stars were created, and the terms days and night started to function ONLY THEN as such! Well clear hereunder:
Genesis 1:15To shine in the firmament of heaven, and to give light upon the earth.
And it was so done.
IT WAS NOT DONE AS SUCH BEFORE!
God simply used the terms day and seven day week only to send a clear simple message to the immature Jews in this regard that
A GOD CREATED ALL
NOT THAT HE CREATED IN ACTUAL FACT ALL IN SIX DAYS! THOUGH HE COULD HAVE DONE IT!
BUT THE PROCESS OF THE CREATION OF THIS PARTICULAR WORLD HAD A SPIRITUAL PROCESS HIDDEN IN IT IN ORDER TO REFURBISH GRADUALLY ALL ANEW SPIRITUALLY BACK TO GOD THE FATHER, which took endless time, BEFORE ADAM WAS CREATED! Well PINPOINTED OUT by Jesus in
John4:Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you,
Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields;
for they are white already to harvest.
Answer Mike, WHAT DID JESUS SEE AND MEAN IN THE ABOVE WORDS
….WHITE AND ALREADY TO HARVEST?
Mark 11:14 And answering he said to it: May no man hereafter eat fruit of thee any more forever. And his disciples heard it.
To whom did Jesus speak? DEFINITELY NOT TO THE TREE!
20And when they passed by in the morning they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots!
WHY DID THE TREE DRY UP?
BY WHAT SPIRITUAL PROCESS?
OK, NO NOVELS!
AT ONE STAGE YOU AND ME WERE PART OF THE EARTH AND ITS GRADUAL PROCESS TILL WE AS SOULS, THROUGH OUR FATHER’S SPERM ENTERED OUR MOTHER’S WOMB!
Hereunder are the scriptures that refer to the first deluge by Lucifer, referred to by God in Job 38:8, in Psalm 18, and also pinpointed out in Ecc.1:9,10
Psalm 18:13 And the Lord thundered from heaven, and the highest gave his voice: hail and coals of fire.14And he sent forth his arrows, and he scattered them:
he multiplied lightnings, and troubled them.
Luke 10:18And he said to them: I saw Satan like lightening falling from heaven.
15Then the fountains of waters appeared, and the foundations of the world were discovered: At thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the spirit of thy wrath.
16He sent from on high, and TOOK ME: and received me out of MANY WATERS.
17He delivered me from my strongest enemies, and from them that hated me: for they were too strong for me.
18They prevented me in the day of my affliction: and the Lord became my protector.
19He brought me forth also into a large place; he delivered me,
because he DELIGHTENED in me.
OBVIOUS! GOD, SPIRITUALLY FOR THE SAKE OF CONTINUITY BY ONE PERSON, WAS TO BE BORN THROUGH DAVID IN JESUS!
Ecc.1:9 What is it that hath been? the same thing that shall be. What is it that hath been done? the same that shall be done.
10Nothing under the sun is new,
Got it, Mike? All already occurred before in Genesis 1:1 WITHOUT THE SUN but SPIRITUAL! THE PROCESS WAS NOT AS WE KNOW IT NOW, MOST PROBABLY THE ONLY POSSIBILITY THAT THE WORLD WAS FLAT! SIMPLY, AS THE HEAVENLY REALMS WERE IN SPIRITUAL FLESH TILL THEY SINNED!
neither is any man able to say: Behold this is new:
for it hath already gone before in the ages that were before us.
NOAH’S FLOOD WAS NOT THE FIRST FLOOD AT ALL!
Job 38:8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, WHEN IT BROKE FORTH AS IF IT HAD ISSUED OUT OF THE WOMB?
NOTICE: GOD SHUT UP THE SEA, mentioned by David in his psalm!
9When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddling band for it, 10And broke up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, (notice the words definitely not literally meant)
11And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
The above is evidently clear that God SPOKE TO LUCIFER, not to the sea, and controlled his deluge!
Now read hereunder!
….21Knowest thou it,
because thou WAST THEN BORN? or
because the number of thy days IS GREAT?
God FIRST asked Job IF HE REMEMBERS ALL THIS SINCE HE WAS ALREADY BORN THEN, then He confirmed and said to Job:
YOU DON’T, because the number of thy days IS GREAT?
OBVIOUS, WHO IN THE TRUTH WAS JOB?
Job 1:6 Now on a certain day when the sons of God came to stand before the Lord, Satan also was present among them. 7And the Lord said to him: Whence comest thou ? And he answered and said: I have gone round about the earth, and walked through it. 8And the Lord said to him:
Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there IS NONE LIKE HIM IN EARTH,
IT IS OBVIOUS “THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, AS A SPIRIT WAS IN JOB,
ON HIS WAY TO BE BORN!
a simple and upright man, and fearing God, and avoiding evil? 9And Satan answering, said: Doth Job fear God in vain ?
WATCH THE WORDS:
10Hast not thou MADE HIM A FENCE for him, and his house,
and all his SUBSTANCE ROUND ABOUT,
IS THE ABOVE VERSE TO BE MEANT ALL LITERALLY?
blessed the works of his hands,
and his possession hath increased on the earth ?
WHO ELSE IF NOT JESUS?
Peace and love in Jesus
Proclaimer: Buy a powerful telescope look at the eternal nature of the cosmos.
The “eternal nature of the cosmos”? Are you suggesting that the heaven wasn’t created, but is from eternity? 🤔
Proclaimer: And wait for the images that will come in from the James Webb telescope. Also take a look at Hubble’s deep field image. That is arguably the most mind blowing photo ever taken in history.
Yeah, there sure are a lot of stars in the heaven. But my question was why you thought God created 99.99999999999% of our world on the first day – when He obviously created many more things during the following five days. In your attempt to answer my question, you’ve pointed to stars. Why? Stars weren’t part of the first day. They weren’t created by God until the fourth day. Please explain.
Proclaimer: Fighting against reality and truth will see you come off second best.
I believe that the Biblical account is truth and reality. Don’t you?
Carmel: I know you hate novels BUT HOW ON EARTH CAN ONE TALK ABOUT GOD’S MYSTERIES WITHOUT THEM?
Very easily. Quote one scripture and tell me what you think it says about Lucifer’s rebellion or whatever, and ask me a question about that one scripture and one claim. You don’t have to blast your entire belief system on us all at once in every single post, Carmel. You’re free to do what you want, but there’s no way I’m reading that last post. I zoomed my computer screen as far out as it can go, and I STILL couldn’t fit your entire post in it. 😁 That’s just way too much for one post. Especially when most of your posts are unscriptural fantasies that you’ve made up.
Hi Mike,
You: Heaven is plural in the Hebrew throughout Gen 1 also
ME: WHY NOT SO ALSO IN ENGLISH?
ME: GOD KNEW LUCIFER’S HEART AND HIS EVENTUAL REBELLION, AND THIS STATE WAS SOMEHOW REFLECTED IN GENESIS 1:1, BUT CAME INTO EFFECT IN GENESIS 1:2
YOU: But the Ezekiel passage begins…
Ezekiel 28:12-14… You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
You were in Eden, the garden of God.
Every kind of precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald…
Notice that Lucifer was still “the seal of perfection” while he was in Eden,
ME: READ:
Genesis 2:8And the Lord God had planted a paradise of pleasure FROM THE BEGINNING:
wherein he placed man whom he had formed
OK Mike, GENESIS 1:1
WAS THE FIRST-EVER BEGINNING!
THAT MEANS THAT GOD, WITHIN LUCIFER CREATED THE GARDEN OF EDEN!
THE FACT THAT LUCIFER AS THE LIGHT/WISDOM CREATED EARTH AND IT BELONGS TO HIM! THE MAIN REASON, THAT HE HIMSELF FLOODED AND DESTROYED IT.
AND WE ARE HIS REMNANTS! EX REBELLIOUS ANGELS/SPIRITS.
You: the garden of God. Lucifer’s rebellion began when he tricked Eve into eating from the tree of knowledge.
Not so I’m afraid! THIS WORLD OF GENESIS 1:3…..WAS CREATED WITHIN THE CONCEPT OF GOOD AND EVIL!
THE FACT THAT IT WAS NOT PERFECT BUT ONLY VERY GOOD, STILL TO BE PERFECTED. NOW LUCIFER/SATAN HAD EVERY RIGHT TO TEST HIS OWN SPIRITS AS SOON AS GOD CREATED THE NEW FIRST CREATURES IN RELATION TO THE NEW TERMS BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL!
TERMS THAT WERE REACHED BETWEEN GOD AND LUCIFER, BEFORE THIS NEW CREATION BETWEEN LIGHT AND DARKNESS
INITIATED! Lucifer rebelled as he felt that HE WAS AUTONOMOUS, and had every right to do so as
THE MORNING STAR and THE LIGHT BRINGER!
BY WHOM ALL THE HEAVENLY REALMS WERE LUMINOUS BEINGS, AND ONCE HE REBELLED DARKNESS RULED THROUGHOUT THE COSMOS, AND ALL HEAVENLY HOSTS LOST THEIR LUMINOUS BODIES!
GOD INITIATED A NEW CREATION ALL UNDER THE SUN!
THE NEW PHYSICAL LIGHT!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Proclaimer: God created the heavens and the earth in the beginning.
Yes. And what day was that?
Proclaimer: Then the heavenly objects could be seen in the vault.
Really? So Genesis 1:1-19 can be summed up with “God created the heaven and the earth and then the stars could be seen”? Are you sure you’re not leaving a few things out? 😅😂🤣 Maybe you overlooked the part where it says that God MADE the lights and then PLACED them into the firmament… on the FOURTH day.
Proclaimer: The sun, moon, and earth are part of the heavens and earth that he created at the very beginning.
According to the Bible? Are you sure? Because if that’s true, I wonder why verses 16-19 clearly say that God MADE the lights and PLACED them into the firmament on the FOURTH day. Why do YOU suppose that is, Proclaimer? Why would God say those words when the lights He was talking about had already been in existence and located in their appointed places on (or before) the first day?
Proclaimer: You can’t say that the sun, moon, and earth are not part of the heavens and earth.
Nope, I can’t say that at all. But neither can I say that human beings are not a part of the heavens and the earth, right? So does that mean human beings were already a part of the heavens and the earth in Genesis 1:1? And if I cannot argue that human beings are a part of the heavens and the earth now, so therefore they were part of the heavens and earth in the beginning, then neither can YOU argue that stars are a part of the heavens and earth now, and therefore they were part of the heavens and the earth in the beginning. Especially when your argument DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS what the scriptures actually say about it.
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