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Quote (942767 @ Mar. 13 2009,10:11) Hi: And Jesus could not always have been a man because:
Quote Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
Marty,What do you mean?
Thanks,
MandyQuote (942767 @ Mar. 13 2009,10:11) Hi: And Jesus could not always have been a man because:
Quote Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
Mandy replied:Quote Marty, What do you mean?
Marty,
Yeah! I don't get it either.thinker
Gene said:
Quote Jesus said the Flesh profits nothing I didn't, Jesus was meaning that as a general statement His sacrifice of his life was the point of profit to us not his flesh, his flesh was simply attached to him as with us, Jesus said:
Quote “Take, eat; this is My body….For this is My blood of the new covenant” Hebrews says,
Quote Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins Christ's statement must be taken in its context. He was correcting those who thought that they must literally eat His flesh and drink His blood.
thinker
thinker…….all these things you have stated are symbolic, and are not to be taken literial , So people think that the wine actually turns to blood when they drink it, and the bread turns into flesh when they eat it, These are just symbols to cause us to relate to the death of Jesus for our sins, and He was simply telling us we need to take to ourselves (eat) His sacrifice and apply it to ourselves. IMO
love and peace to you and yours…………………………………..gene
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 14 2009,07:30) Gene said: Quote Jesus said the Flesh profits nothing I didn't, Jesus was meaning that as a general statement His sacrifice of his life was the point of profit to us not his flesh, his flesh was simply attached to him as with us, Jesus said:
Quote “Take, eat; this is My body….For this is My blood of the new covenant” Hebrews says,
Quote Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins Christ's statement must be taken in its context. He was correcting those who thought that they must literally eat His flesh and drink His blood.
thinker
Thinker…..When you look at the exchange between Jesus and Nicodemus with respect to being born again,you find that Nicodemus' response was one of literal interpretation as for he failed to grip the spiritual message about being born again..Quote (Gene @ Mar. 16 2009,04:53) thinker…….all these things you have stated are symbolic, and are not to be taken literial , So people think that the wine actually turns to blood when they drink it, and the bread turns into flesh when they eat it, These are just symbols to cause us to relate to the death of Jesus for our sins, and He was simply telling us we need to take to ourselves (eat) His sacrifice and apply it to ourselves. IMO love and peace to you and yours…………………………………..gene
Gene,
I said it's not to be taken literalQuote Christ's statement must be taken in its context. He was correcting those who thought that they must literally eat His flesh and drink His blood. But the fact still remains that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. So your treatment of the statement “the flesh profits nothing” is wrong.
thinker
Theodorej said:
Quote Thinker…..When you look at the exchange between Jesus and Nicodemus with respect to being born again,you find that Nicodemus' response was one of literal interpretation as for he failed to grip the spiritual message about being born again.. tj,
I think your reply to me is according to what Gene thinks I am saying and not according I am actually saying. Please read it all again.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 12 2009,03:20) Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 11 2009,12:04) Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 11 2009,04:28) This is not the case for man was created in God's image and after God's likeness. So for God to become a man is for Him to become like Himself.
Hi Thinker,What do you do with this scripture, then?
Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?Just curious,
Mandy
Hi Mandy,Good question. But the word for “man” here is “ish” meaning a certain man. The word for mankind generically is “adam.” It says that God is not as a certain man who would change his mind and fail to keep his word.
Speaking prophetically of Christ king David said,
Quote Lord, who may abide in your tabernacle? Who may dwell in your holy hill?….He who swears to his own hurt and will not repent (Psalm. 15:1-4) So in Numbers 23 God meant that He is not as unfaithful man. And if you say “Where is a faithful man?” I will just point you to Jesus. So I will ask you this: Would it be a problem for God to become a creature that is faithful like Himself? Think about it.
thinker
Hi,Your reasoning does not sit well with me.
God did not become a human. Humans are capable of being tempted to sin, and God most certainly cannot be tempted. Jesus however was tempted, but the Spirit of God working in him, kept him from sin.
Heb 2:18For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
The FLESH of Jesus was like all other human flesh, it was weak. It was a body in chains, kept as a slave under sin because of the temptations of the world.
Christ was not freed from temptation until he was resurrected and given an immortal body. Man is in chains, like the rest of the animal world, where we have instincts that draw us to survive, making us naturally drawn to serve our flesh, thus drawing us away from God.
God's Spirit of wisdom and truth can over power our nature however, helping us to overcome our sinful desires. Christ had God's Spirit working in him to such an extent that it kept him from sin. Jesus was not kept from sin because He was God, but because God's Spirit helped him to overcome his weak nature.
Jas 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
Lu 2:40 And the Child grew and became strong in spirit, filled with wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him.
Hebrews 5:8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
You said to Mandy, “So I will ask you this: Would it be a problem for God to become a creature that is faithful like Himself?
God does not grow in grace and knowledge, He does not learn obedience, He does not need to be perfected, and He most certainly does not disguise Himself into one of His own creations.
Is it a problem for God to become an ignorant, weak, and helpless infant boy? UH…. YA!
The flesh of Jesus did not profit him anything, therefore neither did it us. It was the Spirit of God working in a man that profited the whole world.
Joh 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
Job 25:4 How then can man be righteous before God? Or how can he be pure who is born of a woman?
Job 33:12 “Look, in this you are not righteous. I will answer you, For God is greater than man.
Eph 5:9 (for the fruit of the Spirit* is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),
Lu 4:18“The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
Ac 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.
Was it Christ’s flesh that made him not worthy of death? Was it Christ's flesh that kept him from sin? NO! Christ's flesh profited him NOTHING, it was the Spirit in God that worked in Christ keeping him holy.
The significance of the bloodshed of Jesus is that he nailed to the cross SIN and DEATH……. and how was he able to do that? It was because God's Spirit was working in him, NOT because Jesus was God made into a man.
Romans 6:9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 13 2009,18:08) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 13 2009,10:11) Hi: And Jesus could not always have been a man because:
Quote Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
Marty,What do you mean?
Thanks,
Mandy
Hi Mandy:I mean that he could not have pre-existed as a man before being born of the Virgin Mary since to exist as a man, all after Adam, must be born of a woman.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Gene @ Mar. 16 2009,04:53) thinker…….all these things you have stated are symbolic, and are not to be taken literial , So people think that the wine actually turns to blood when they drink it, and the bread turns into flesh when they eat it, These are just symbols to cause us to relate to the death of Jesus for our sins, and He was simply telling us we need to take to ourselves (eat) His sacrifice and apply it to ourselves. IMO love and peace to you and yours…………………………………..gene
Amen to that post brother Gene. I agree with you fully, if they take them literally then all Christians will be a cannibals.Thanks and love to you
AdamFor Kathi.
Maybe you've already taken a look here, I don't know? It's one of my most favorite topics. I have a theory, of course, and it's not very popular as anyone can see who reads this thread.
But I haven't been convinced otherwise yet……..
There are a lot of good theories out there. If yours isn't here already, please make sure to share it for those who search under this topic. Thanks!
Love,
MandyHi Mandy,
I think that I have plopped my ideas on this topic here before but I will reiterate what I think now because you asked me to.I believe that the human body of Jesus came from a supernatural fertilzation of Mary's egg by the power of the Most High God through His Spirit. She was the Son of Man's biological mother but not the biological mother of the Son of God who existed before creation. I believe that the Son of God was the “innerman” of the Son of Man. We all have an “innerman” within us too and God can renew that innerman within us. The Son of Man did not have to be renewed within His innerman.
My opinion,
KathiHi LU,
Did he know everything from birth?
If not then he too had to be renewed in his mind.[rom12]
The Spirit of God enlightened fully the study he had done with the guidance of his heavenly father.Hi Nick,
I would say that He had to be taught, not re-taught. Wouldn't you say that a renewed mind is one that had to be re-taught? Jesus was taught properly about God right from His infancy as a man as far as I can see…no need to be re-taught/renewed.LU
Hi LU,
So you think when he was anointed by the Holy Spirit he was only given power and not knowledge and understanding?Hi LU,
Acts 10 say he was anointed with the Holy Spirit AND POWER.
So it seems that power is not in itself what the anointing is about?Nick,
I would think that He was continually growing in wisdom since His birth from Mary. The power that He needed to do His 3 1/2 years of ministry was probably given to Him at the Jordan. He continued to be taught what to say and what to do after the Jordan just like before the Jordan. IMOLU
Hi LU,
He knew the scriptures by the age of 12 but he spoke of deeper things for God after the Jordan.Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 27 2009,14:40) Hi Nick,
I would say that He had to be taught, not re-taught. Wouldn't you say that a renewed mind is one that had to be re-taught? Jesus was taught properly about God right from His infancy as a man as far as I can see…no need to be re-taught/renewed.LU
Hi Kathi! If Christ did not know where He came fom then how could He say this in
John 17:5 “And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory I had with you before the world was.”
Also IMO He knew what was at stake if He would have sinned.
If all have fallen short of the glory of God, did that include Him? IMO No.
Peace and Love Irene
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