Conception

[Not3in1]

Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 17 2008,04:54)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 17 2008,02:30) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 16 2008,18:05) Quote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 15 2008,22:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2008,15:05) Hi mk, If the first Adam was not why must the second Adam be? I'm going to sound like a broken record again, but feel it's important to share for Meerkat's consideration. Adam will need to be adopted (along with the rest of us) into his sonship with God. Jesus belonged at birth. Hmmmm You can say that Jesus belonged as the son of God from his birth, but it is ONLY because of the predestination of which God had for him from the beginning, which WAS TO CREATE A RIGHTEOUS HUMAN BEING, (an example for the rest of mankind to follow)! NOT because of him having some sort of different genetics as we do, and certainly not because he was part God part human. Again, predestination of men doesn't have a whole lot to do with the fact that when Jesus was born…..he was God's ONLY Son.  Much like when your daughter's were born…..they were your daughter's.  Whether or not they were predestined to be your daughter's, makes little difference in the fact that they are indeed related to you.  Their relativeness could even be proven by a blood test! Jesus' relativeness was perhaps “proven”, as you say, by his resurrection. Mandy, What I keep going back to though is God is a spirit, his relations are spirit – we are told flesh profit nothing – Jesus words are spirit and life.

Meerkat,

Here's some ideas:

As to his human nature he is a descendent of David….
As to his spirit he is the Son of God through the resurrection. Paraphrased Romans 1:3,4

It is my belief that Jesus was both a human man, and divine spirit. He was unlike any other human being alive on the earth. We WILL follow him. We will be transformed when we receive our adoption as sons and daughters.

Jesus didn't undergo a transformation. Other than perhaps he received the “spiritual” body after he had used up his “natural” body. We will also receive this body. That is not the transformation that I believe we will undergo. The bible tells us that we will be like him…. We are not like him now. We aspire to be holy and perfect, but we cannot attain that until the Day we are in the presence of the Lord, and receive our inheritence. We will become divine. Jesus was born divine.

[gollamudi]

Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 17 2008,06:32)

Jodi, I don't think so – I don't feel that it is about Mary (however the Catholics wanted to make it about Mary) – she still did have to do all the wifely things for Joseph because she was a woman and needed to tend to the physical household tasks. That is just the way it is. Women are the childbearers, homekeepers, nurturers of both husband and children. This seems to be where the concept of nuns come from. I just feel that we as humans seem to want physical confirmation of things – I feel the Jews were doing that in the OT – taking the symbols and making them physical.

Amen to that post Sis Meerkat. I do feel like that there is no necessity to keep Mary Immaculate since Jesus had to share our sinful flesh not immaculate body as many Christians think so. If he was really tempted like us then there is no question of immaculate birth for Jesus. The secret behind his being without sin was the fullness of God in him but not that he was somebody different from Us. otherwise he can not be our true example.

Thanks and love to you
Adam

[Not3in1]

Quote (dirtyknections @ Dec. 17 2008,04:27)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 17 2008,02:43) Quote (dirtyknections @ Dec. 17 2008,02:37) The scripture says that “christ accompanied them” How much more blatant can you get… I won't do this homework for you…..but check out the various translations on this bit of scripture.  You'll be amazed at what you find. Have a good one, DK! already turned in that assigment   The translations vary little between themselves..just a few differences in prepositions…not anything that would change the meaning of the text… and Gene… Christ= anointed..therefore generally they can be used interchangeably… But I have to say I disagree with you here..its obvious that “the angel of GOD” mentioned in the OT…you know the one that ministered and delivered pronouncements in GOD's name was in fact on occasion “the rock” Christ To come to any other conclusion requires the putting on of our “preterist glasses”

What was your grade on the assignment?
Dig deeper…..

[NickHassan]

Hi,
In my opinion Rom 1 says really he was proven to be the awaited son of God by the resurrection.
God told us he was His son way before that.

Lk3
22And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

[Jodi]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 16 2008,22:04)

Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 17 2008,04:54) Quote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 17 2008,02:30) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 16 2008,18:05) Quote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 15 2008,22:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2008,15:05) Hi mk, If the first Adam was not why must the second Adam be? I'm going to sound like a broken record again, but feel it's important to share for Meerkat's consideration. Adam will need to be adopted (along with the rest of us) into his sonship with God. Jesus belonged at birth. Hmmmm You can say that Jesus belonged as the son of God from his birth, but it is ONLY because of the predestination of which God had for him from the beginning, which WAS TO CREATE A RIGHTEOUS HUMAN BEING, (an example for the rest of mankind to follow)! NOT because of him having some sort of different genetics as we do, and certainly not because he was part God part human. Again, predestination of men doesn't have a whole lot to do with the fact that when Jesus was born…..he was God's ONLY Son. Much like when your daughter's were born…..they were your daughter's. Whether or not they were predestined to be your daughter's, makes little difference in the fact that they are indeed related to you. Their relativeness could even be proven by a blood test! Jesus' relativeness was perhaps “proven”, as you say, by his resurrection. Mandy, What I keep going back to though is God is a spirit, his relations are spirit – we are told flesh profit nothing – Jesus words are spirit and life. Meerkat, Here's some ideas: As to his human nature he is a descendent of David…. As to his spirit he is the Son of God through the resurrection. Paraphrased Romans 1:3,4 It is my belief that Jesus was both a human man, and divine spirit. He was unlike any other human being alive on the earth. We WILL follow him. We will be transformed when we receive our adoption as sons and daughters. Jesus didn't undergo a transformation. Other than perhaps he received the “spiritual” body after he had used up his “natural” body. We will also receive this body. That is not the transformation that I believe we will undergo. The bible tells us that we will be like him…. We are not like him now. We aspire to be holy and perfect, but we cannot attain that until the Day we are in the presence of the Lord, and receive our inheritence. We will become divine. Jesus was born divine.

Hi Mandy,

Could you explain more on your understanding that Jesus is both a human man and a divine spirit.

How would you define divine spirit?

In my understanding Jesus was unlike any man on earth because he remained without sin and he did this through God according to the Holy Spirit working in him on a higher level then given to any human being.

I do not believe that Jesus was divine until his resurrection and this is why-

Jesus was a human being with his own will and he had a body that could die, feel pain, be hungry….all that stuff. Jesus was just like us in the fact that because of death he too was drawn to serve his flesh. God used the Holy Spirit working in Jesus to get Jesus to deny/overcome his will that naturally desires to serve the flesh, and instead have his mind fully follow God. A human being that has a will that naturally wants to follow the flesh IMO is not a Divine Being, yes a human being remaining sinless but not yet Divine. God accomplished in Jesus a 'spiritual' mind, that overcame his fleshly body.

To be considered Divine, it takes a human being to be both spiritually minded and have a spiritual body. This is because a spiritual body (a physical body not able to die), no longer works against the mind to draw it to serve it's flesh. God's Holy Spirit had to constantly work in Jesus to keep his will from following his flesh. Death separates the will of humans from God, and draws them to serve their flesh. The mind of Jesus wanted to follow God, but throughout his life he had to battle against the draw of his mortal body to want to serve his flesh. Upon his resurrection Jesus was freed from this bondage, his body would no longer work to try and draw him away from serving God, instead his wonderful immortal body lifts him up and draws him completely to God, making him divine.

Upon our resurrection we will share this with Jesus. Oh, I can't wait!

Concerning our adoption-

Luke 3:38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Adam was the son of God.

Ephesians 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will– 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

So what is the adoption about

Ro 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Ro 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Ro 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Jesus Christ remained sinless, therefore he was not deserving of death.

Acts 2:24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, th
at we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

I firmly believe that it was not a matter of Jesus' DNA that makes him a son of God, but rather because he was and remained a sinless man. Adam was the son of God until he sinned, because sin brought death which separated him from God. We too are sons of God through Jesus because he died for our sins. Because Jesus paid for our sins we are adopted into the resurrection bringing us back into life with God and thus making us His children.

[NickHassan]

Yes Jodi,
And he overcame Satan with the Word of God.

[Not3in1]

Hi Jodi,

You have so much going on in one post that I will have to come back. Today is a snow day for us and so I have a house full of kids!! Your post requires more concentration….I'll be back this evening to address it.

I always appreciate your thoughts/perspectives on scripture.

I'm sure you guys have snow, too?
Mandy

[Not3in1]

Hi Jodi,

I'm back for a few minutes. The kids are out sleding.

Quote

Could you explain more on your understanding that Jesus is both a human man and a divine spirit.

First let me say, that after studying this subject till I'm blue in the face, I've realized that the scriptures support a wide range of ideas surrounding Jesus' conception. Many of us hold different, even opposing, ideas about who and what Jesus is. We get these ideas from reading the same book! Go figure.

Jesus was both the son of his mother (human), and the son of his father (divine). What would such a union produce? You've seen this before: Human + Divine = Divine Human. Minus any presup's, this would be our obvious conclusion.

Jesus confirmed that he was both the son of man, and the son of God.
The question is then, is Jesus a *different* “son” than Adam? I believe that he is!!

Adam is the man from earth, Jesus is the man from heaven!
Moses (along the lines of a “son” according to Adam) is a servant over the house, while Jesus is a Son over the house!

We have born the likeness of Adam, but we WILL bear the likeness of the one from heaven – Jesus!

Also, Romans 9:5 points out Jesus' “human” ancestry – why? Perhaps because he shares another ancestry? I believe this is the case. Jesus' orgins are from ancient of times; he comes from the Ancient of Days.

We are also told that we were predestined to be in the likeness of Jesus (remember that we are not yet – we are like Adam – not like Jesus). But Jesus was the firstborn (of this type of person) and many brother's will follow. Romans 8:29.

Quote

How would you define divine spirit?

God.

Quote

In my understanding Jesus was unlike any man on earth because he remained without sin and he did this through God according to the Holy Spirit working in him on a higher level then given to any human being.

He was unlike any man on earth at his birth. As you have said in another thread, we are born into sin but not automatically sinners. But certainly to remain sinless, God had his hand upon him. God's plans prevail – always. But notably, Jesus was unlike any other man (including Adam) because he was born of God, and of man.

Quote

To be considered Divine, it takes a human being to be both spiritually minded and have a spiritual body.

Agreed. God is divine.
Jesus is not *just* divine, however. He is both man and God – COMBINED. As a child is the combination of his parents.

Quote

Concerning our adoption- Luke 3:38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. Adam was the son of God.

I think I've already touched on this.
Adam is NOT a son of God in the same way that Jesus is. Even Paul and other's testify to this.

Quote

So what is the adoption about

Our adoption has more to do with our sonship status than it does the resurrection of our bodies. This is a huge study on it's own. Sonship is extended to us because God “qualified” us to receive it through Jesus. The key thought here, of course, is that we needed to be qualified – Jesus didn't.

Quote

I firmly believe that it was not a matter of Jesus' DNA that makes him a son of God, but rather because he was and remained a sinless man. Adam was the son of God until he sinned, because sin brought death which separated him from God. We too are sons of God through Jesus because he died for our sins.

God could have made any man sinless. He could have predestined any human being to live a sinless life. This stops short of the full story to be found in the birth of our Savior, in my opinion.

We are sons and daughter's of God, indeed we are co-heirs with Christ! But we were not naturally BORN into that glorious family. We had to be qualified. We have to be adopted. Again, for those who will see it, there is a mighty blessing there.

Quote

Because Jesus paid for our sins we are adopted into the resurrection bringing us back into life with God and thus making us His children.

Yes! God qualified us through Jesus. Before Jesus we were unacceptable. Jesus is our bridge. He is both son of man AND son of God.

I've been a bit distracted (kids coming in and out), but hopefully there is enough thoughts here to jumble and toss around.
Have a great night,
Mandy

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
You say.
“Jesus is not *just* divine, however. He is both man and God – COMBINED. As a child is the combination of his parents.”

God should live in us too.
Eph 3
” 19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. “

Are we the same?

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2008,12:28)

Hi not3, You say. “Jesus is not *just* divine, however.  He is both man and God – COMBINED.     As a child is the combination of his parents.” God should live in us too. Eph 3 ” 19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. “ Are we the same?

You ask, “Are we the same?”

Were you born of a virgin?
I wasn't.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
So being born of a virgin makes him a different kind of man.
If so why did he need the anointing power of God to heal and cure?

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2008,12:48)

Hi not3, So being born of a virgin makes him a different kind of man. If so why did he need the anointing power of God to heal and cure?

God overshadowed Mary and she conceived…..
Did your mum have this experience?

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
So the physical origins define a man and not scripture?
Scripture says he was a man, a son of Adam.

[Not3in1]

A son of Adam?
I don't think so.
Adam is Jesus' brother…..right?

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
ADAM means MAN

Jesus is the SON OF MAN

He the SON OF ADAM

[gollamudi]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2008,18:20)

Hi not3, ADAM means MAN Jesus is the SON OF MAN He the SON OF ADAM

Amen and Amen to that post brother Nick, Jesus is the son of Adam(man) he became son of God only by being filled with the Holy Spirit but not by any mystified way as our Sis Mandy think so. Jesus was not born immaculate as many think here. He was born with the same body as of ours therefore he was told to be tempted like us but not in a fake way.

Thanks and peace to you
Adam

[NickHassan]

Hi GM,
Scripture does not agree with you.
Lk1
35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

[Not3in1]

Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 18 2008,19:53)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2008,18:20) Hi not3, ADAM means MAN Jesus is the SON OF MAN He the SON OF ADAM Amen and Amen to that post brother Nick, Jesus is the son of Adam(man) he became son of God only by being filled with the Holy Spirit but not by any mystified way as our Sis Mandy think so. Jesus was not born immaculate as many think here. He was born with the same body as of ours therefore he was told to be tempted like us but not in a fake way. Thanks and peace to you Adam

Scripture does not agree with you, nor do I.

Jesus is the result of much “mystic”ness! He is the result of one of the greatest mysteries EVER! That is one of the reasons we still speak of him, and still wonder about him. If he were just a “mere man”, his legend/mystery would have died out with him.

Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON of the Almighty God that created the universe, and you and me. You bet there is something about him that is mystic. And I love it!

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2008,18:20)

Hi not3, ADAM means MAN Jesus is the SON OF MAN He the SON OF ADAM

Gotcha.

He is the son of Adam (man)………..and the son of God (divine).

Yes, I believe this.

[Jodi]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 17 2008,16:23)

Hi Jodi, I'm back for a few minutes. The kids are out sleding. Quote Could you explain more on your understanding that Jesus is both a human man and a divine spirit. First let me say, that after studying this subject till I'm blue in the face, I've realized that the scriptures support a wide range of ideas surrounding Jesus' conception. Many of us hold different, even opposing, ideas about who and what Jesus is. We get these ideas from reading the same book! Go figure. Jesus was both the son of his mother (human), and the son of his father (divine). What would such a union produce? You've seen this before: Human + Divine = Divine Human. Minus any presup's, this would be our obvious conclusion. Jesus confirmed that he was both the son of man, and the son of God. The question is then, is Jesus a *different* “son” than Adam? I believe that he is!! Adam is the man from earth, Jesus is the man from heaven! Moses (along the lines of a “son” according to Adam) is a servant over the house, while Jesus is a Son over the house! We have born the likeness of Adam, but we WILL bear the likeness of the one from heaven – Jesus! Also, Romans 9:5 points out Jesus' “human” ancestry – why? Perhaps because he shares another ancestry? I believe this is the case. Jesus' orgins are from ancient of times; he comes from the Ancient of Days. We are also told that we were predestined to be in the likeness of Jesus (remember that we are not yet – we are like Adam – not like Jesus). But Jesus was the firstborn (of this type of person) and many brother's will follow. Romans 8:29. Quote How would you define divine spirit? God. Quote In my understanding Jesus was unlike any man on earth because he remained without sin and he did this through God according to the Holy Spirit working in him on a higher level then given to any human being. He was unlike any man on earth at his birth. As you have said in another thread, we are born into sin but not automatically sinners. But certainly to remain sinless, God had his hand upon him. God's plans prevail – always. But notably, Jesus was unlike any other man (including Adam) because he was born of God, and of man. Quote To be considered Divine, it takes a human being to be both spiritually minded and have a spiritual body. Agreed. God is divine. Jesus is not *just* divine, however. He is both man and God – COMBINED. As a child is the combination of his parents. Quote Concerning our adoption- Luke 3:38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. Adam was the son of God. I think I've already touched on this. Adam is NOT a son of God in the same way that Jesus is. Even Paul and other's testify to this. Quote So what is the adoption about Our adoption has more to do with our sonship status than it does the resurrection of our bodies. This is a huge study on it's own. Sonship is extended to us because God “qualified” us to receive it through Jesus. The key thought here, of course, is that we needed to be qualified – Jesus didn't. Quote I firmly believe that it was not a matter of Jesus' DNA that makes him a son of God, but rather because he was and remained a sinless man. Adam was the son of God until he sinned, because sin brought death which separated him from God. We too are sons of God through Jesus because he died for our sins. God could have made any man sinless. He could have predestined any human being to live a sinless life. This stops short of the full story to be found in the birth of our Savior, in my opinion. We are sons and daughter's of God, indeed we are co-heirs with Christ! But we were not naturally BORN into that glorious family. We had to be qualified. We have to be adopted. Again, for those who will see it, there is a mighty blessing there. Quote Because Jesus paid for our sins we are adopted into the resurrection bringing us back into life with God and thus making us His children. Yes! God qualified us through Jesus. Before Jesus we were unacceptable. Jesus is our bridge. He is both son of man AND son of God. I've been a bit distracted (kids coming in and out), but hopefully there is enough thoughts here to jumble and toss around. Have a great night, Mandy

Good Morning Sis,

I believe that your thinking is in error from the start from the term 'son of God'.

Both Adam and Jesus were created according to the power of the Holy Spirit. Adam was created from the dust by the Holy Spirit into a man, Jesus was created by the Holy Spirit through Mary's womb, into a man. I find that knowing that Jesus was the ONLY man to remain without sin, and keeping in mind that Adam was also called a son of God, that it is rather obvious that Jesus being referred to as God's One and Only Son, is referring to his sinlessness, not his DNA.

Keep in mind that these scriptures were written AFTER Jesus was resurrected and WHEN he was dwelling in heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven. 50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed– 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortalit
y, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

Mandy your taking Jesus being called the man from heaven out of context. First the earthly and then the heavenly!

Was not Jesus on earth and was not Jesus able to die? He too first was an earthly man. He became a heavenly man upon his resurrection. First perishable flesh (earthly man, able to die), then comes imperishable flesh (heavenly man, immortal).

We are going to be like the Jesus that was resurrected, not the one that was able to die on earth! Chapter 15 is referring to Jesus as a heavenly man, not from his birth, but from his resurrection.

Romans 8:3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. 5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.

The righteous requirement was fully met because Jesus was exactly like us, if this were not so then he would have met the requirement for a different kind of being, the false one you speak of, of a half man, half god. Jesus was fully human, nothing else except fully human without sin, which is the whole point of God's work, to bring man (Adam and his offspring) into righteousness.

We are ALL children of God, because Christ wiped our slate clean from sin. Sin equals death and that is how man lost his place. Because of the work of the HS, Jesus was able to keep his mind on following God and not his flesh, this kept him in the life of God and thus kept him as a son of God.

Honestly to me, your idea that God had to create a whole new sort of being, in order to save man, takes away His glory in His work in mankind.

Mandy your understanding seems to create a new doctrine of God as being not One person, but One person and a half of another person, where the half's other half at one point contained the potential to sin. That is just not right IMO, it makes no sense and is definitely not supported with scripture.

Please think why Adam was called a son of God?

Joh 13:31 When he was gone, Jesus said, “Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him.

God is glorified In him, Jesus is not part God.

Joh 11:27 “Yes, Lord,” she told him, “I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who was to come into the world.”

Joh 1:49 Then Nathanael declared, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel.”

Jesus is the son of God because he is the Messiah, not because he is half human half God. God was able to build His character in man to keep him sinless, this is the glory, not that God was able to save mankind by making a human part physically himself.

Gal4:4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5 to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. 6 Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.” 7 So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.

Jesus was born under the law, if he were divine from his birth how would that be so?

Redeem, reconcile, reunite, make a mends ….. mankind's status as being children of God was lost due to sin and was reconciled because God took 'one of us' and made it right through the use of His Spirit.

We are no longer slaves, but sons because death no longer has dominion over us because we are adopted into the Reward given to Jesus, of which he so rightly deserved because he was full man and could not be held to the punishment of death.

Heb 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

I believe that the Glory is God's work IN mankind by a man, and not God's work FOR mankind by an entire different creature. Jesus is representation of God in a MAN, not representation of God by being literally half God.

Jesus is the son of man, stating that he was Fully human. Jesus was the son of God, meaning that he was never separated from the Father due to sin.

Mandy, Jesus is firstborn from the dead, and we too will be born immortal from the dead. We will not be born like Jesus was from Mary. You seem to be a little confused, and I know you have studied this until you were blue in the face, but you seem to be looking at many scriptures from a wrong perspective when you try and make Jesus as literally part God from his birth.

It was God's hand in Jesus that made Jesus different from his birth. From the birth of Jesus God had His Holy Spirit working in the mind of Jesus instructing him to keep him sinless. He was not different because he genetically had part human brain and part God brain.

Mandy, Jesus was significant because he was a man that remained sinless, NOT because of him being another sort of creature.

We need to be qualified because we did not remain without sin, so we are still deserving of death. Jesus didn't sin because of God's Spirit working in him, and he painfully held our guilt suffering for our sins. Jesus' qualification was not automatic because of his birth, hardly correct. Jesus qualified do to the work of God in Jesus that was accomplished throughout his life on earth.

I find several problems with your understanding, but there is one particular reason that stands out and so I would like you to address it.

You said, “But we were not naturally BORN into that glorious family”

Jesus was Born into death, into fighting against sin in his own flesh. That is hardly being born into a glorious family. If Jesus was glorious by his given makeup at his birth then WHY, WHY would God need to baptize him later in his life with the Holy Spirit? Why would Jesus have to grow in grace and in knowledge, if he is part God? Oh, does the fact that he is part human override his godness and make him ignorant? Was it Jesus' right brain that was God and his left human? Sorry Mandy, I find NO sense in your understanding, not to be harsh.

The mighty blessing, is in the fact that Jesus was a human being and took on all the worlds sins and redeemed us from death, reconciling us BACK into life, reuniting us as children of God.

Ephesians 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

Jesus reconciled, not from his birth, but from being fully human and remaining without sin. What part of Ephesians and reconciliation mentions anything about birth? Sin was abolished in his flesh do to the continuous work in him with the HS, not because he was part God from his birth. Jesus could do nothing of himself, he had to have God's Spirit working in him. Your understanding does not add up with the scriptures, IMO it makes things confusing.

Ac 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who wer
e oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

God was with Jesus and therefore IN him, not he was half god. Jesus was born through the power of the Holy Spirit and he was anointed with the Holy Spirit.

Sorry if I sound like a broken record, I am more then sure I repeated myself on several points. Hope you will give this some thought.

Peace and love to you, Jodi

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