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Well…
It seems to me the logical answer to this question would be that JESUS was conceived of the Spirit and of the Flesh.
He had to be the Son of GOD…and the Seed of David at the same time to fulfill the prophesy. Don't ask me how GOD achieved this…his GOD…He works in Mysterious ways. All things are possible with GOD.
This is my guess that the angel came to Mary before she was to have the child. And, possibly when Joseph and Mary conceived the Spirit of GOD was there and had something to do with it. But i'm not 100% sure…I wasn't there. None of us were. So, are of us are just guessing…thats my guess.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 23 2007,16:42) WJ, It looks like you are answering your own questions.
Quote Why would the body of the second adam be made any different? See your answer below….
Quote Because another man like Adam could not save us.
To this I say, Amen!Quote Jesus is a “Hybrid”?
If that is what you choose to call the Son of God and the Son of Man – then yes!Quote There is no comparison to a virgin being found with child of the Holy Spirit and Eiizabeths birth.
I'm sorry I wasn't very clear. My point was that their pregnancies were compared in that they were both with child. A child. Not an incarnation. Unless, of course you believe that JTB was some sort of incarnation?Quote I want a scripture showing your claim that God took sperm and implanted it into Marys womb like a test tube baby.
Test tube babies are really no different from regular conceived babies. The sperm and the egg are united in a dish and then inserted into the womb. So this doesn't really apply, but I understand your frustration in seeing that God can simply provide what is needed. It's a pretty basic concept.Quote And you didnt explain how can it be natural sperm, and if it was then he is like us in every way and so why the virgin. Does God have “Spiritual Sperm”?
Human men have – human sperm. God is spirit – I would imagine that he provided a sperm that included his appropriate properties (or DNA). After all, Jesus was born with two legs, two eyes, and so on. He was also born sinless, with a star that shone bright the night he was delievered. Accompanied by a host of angels annoucing his birth.Quote Was Jesus also a Spirit being?
Jesus was/is a combination of his parents.
not3You say…
Quote
It looks like you are answering your own questions.No. You are misrepresenting my words. I was making comparison to Jesus likeness of sinfull flesh like Adams.
Nothing to do with the “Quikening Spirit” he is, and the “Living Soul” Adam was.
You say…
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To this I say, Amen!Yes after you twist my words.
You say…
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If that is what you choose to call the Son of God and the Son of Man – then yes!I am glad you admit he is a “Hybrid”. Will you ever be a Hybrid?
You say…
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I'm sorry I wasn't very clear. My point was that their pregnancies were compared in that they were both with child. A child. Not an incarnation. Unless, of course you believe that JTB was some sort of incarnation?OK. So every woman with children were “with child”.
What does that have to do with the miraculous conception of Yeshua in a virgin?
You say..
Quote
Test tube babies are really no different from regular conceived babies. The sperm and the egg are united in a dish and then inserted into the womb. So this doesn't really apply, but I understand your frustration in seeing that God can simply provide what is needed. It's a pretty basic concept.Definatly no frustration here. It would seem that the frustration would be with someone who dosnt have scriptures to back up their theology. Namely where is the scripture that says God had put sperm in Mary?
Apparently its not so basic.
You say…
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Human men have – human sperm. God is spirit – I would imagine that he provided a sperm that included his appropriate properties (or DNA). After all, Jesus was born with two legs, two eyes, and so on. He was also born sinless, with a star that shone bright the night he was delievered. Accompanied by a host of angels annoucing his birth.God is Spirit. He does not have DNA. Again, scriptures please.
You still havnt answered the questions?
Well…Jesus is the Second Adam.
Ok…this is probably going to confuse you but…this is a hazy view of what i'm thinking.
GOD knows everything. Before he ever got started making the heavens(Our Universe) and Man…I believe he saw how it was all going to play out. And, thus Made a plan for how he wanted things to be.
Having said that…I believe he knew that Satan was going to deceive Man…(ADAM) I believe he knew that ADAM was going to be doomed…unto death. And, he was going to have to have a way to “BAIL” man out. I believe that Two Adams were made at the same time. One in secret if you will…GODS back up plan. Keep in mind I could be very very wrong here, but I sort of got this hunch. That this second ADAM is whom was made JESUS…the perfect lamb! Gods ONLY Son…being as how the other ADAM doomed those sons of GOD into Sin and DEATH …those were now sons of Satan. I believe that This Adam was conceived in Mary …and somehow had ties to Joseph…Cause he had to be of the Seed of DAVID…otherwise GOD would have been lying…and GOD don't lie…he can't lie. So Somehow you can bet your sweet bottom dollar that Joseph was somehow JESUS biological father…or earthly father…He was of the “SEED” of DAVID. Thus, also making him the Son of Man as well.
You can say what you want.
But we know certain facts:
JESUS was around in Heaven before He was born of man here on earth.
He was the SON OF GOD
He was the SON OF MAN
He was the perfect LAMB!
He DIED and Bore the whole WORLDS SINS!
So that we might all have everlasting life!
It's all in there…in his word…it is written. Unless someone has taken it out of there at some time…then if thats the case i'm sure whom ever did so has their reward…as Jesus would say.Joseph's “SEED” might even have been plucked out of him in his sleep. Like the RIB of ADAM was plucked out to make woman.
Who knows how god did it…but he did it. And I thank him that he did. And you should too.
Samuel That is putting it nicely
Jesus was in Heaven before He was born of Man.
That is a fact.Peace and Love Mrs.
Ok I give up Jesus was a superman who gave up His super and became as we are. The Word which was at the very least part of God became flesh with super powers of God. He had to have inherited something from His Father.
So Adam MUST have been a super human also because Jesus was the second Adam.
1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
both man444 in the scripture:
ἄνθρωπος
anthrōpos
anth'-ro-pos
From G435 and ὤψ ōps (the countenance; from G3700); manfaced, that is, a human being: – certain, man.There is NO difference in the definition. Not even “only begotten” Or Son of God.
Adam was created by God. Adam was the only one created by God alone. NO! God created everything through His Word.
Why didn't God use dust to create Eve? Why should He? He already created flesh. So because Adam was not equipped He used one of Adam's rib (curb).
Why would God use a rib (curb) to create Jesus when He had Mary who was equipped.
God had all He needed to create another human ~sin free~The difference Jesus Had the Spirit, created from the Word.
Hmm did God make a mistake with Adam? Did Adam have the Spirit of God? Did Jesus have the Spirit before He was baptized? He went thirty years without sinning before He was baptized and God was Pleased!
We read where the Spirit led Him into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan himself. “If ye be the Son of God” was the question. Wasn't Jesus the Son of God before He was baptized? OR was He just the son of man as HE SAID?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 23 2007,15:25) Hi WJ, Quote Your opinion. I could also say that if you deny that Jesus came in the flesh then you are of the spirit of antichrist.
I have never denied that Jesus came in the flesh. He was born, wasn't he?Quote But jesus conception is not a “natural conception” is it?
I believe that it is.
Jesus coming in the flesh means that he was nothing but flesh and blood, meaning fully human! Saying that he was biologically not human means denying flesh and blood. You said earlier if we took a DNA test of Jesus, you didn't think it would be the same as ours, that's denying Jesus came in the flesh in my opinion. Our DNA code says we are human, when the bible refers to us as being flesh, it is telling us that we are nothing other then human. When the bible tells us that Jesus came in the flesh, it is directly telling us that Jesus is Nothing but human period!In all honesty if your going to say that Jesus' conception was a “natural conception” then God must of had sex with Mary. Natural human conception occurs through intercourse does it not?
I think the “Seed of man” the “Seed of David” was taken from Joseph and placed in the womb of Mary. If, they did not have “SEXUAL INTERCOURSE” then something to this effect had to be what happened…Because JESUS is of the “SEED OF DAVID”. If you deny that JESUS is of the Flesh and of the SEED of DAVID then you might as well call GOD himself a lier…although I would strongly advise against doing that if I were you.
Matthew 1
1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;
3And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;
4And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;
5And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
6And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
7And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
8And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
9And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;
10And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;
11And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
12And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
13And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
14And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
15And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
16And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
17So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
19Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.
20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
24Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
25And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
Luke 4
21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.22And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?
Matthew 1:1
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.Matthew 1:20
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.Matthew 9:27
. And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, [Thou] Son of David, have mercy on us.Matthew 12:23
And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?Matthew 15:22
And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, [thou] Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.Matthew 20:30
And, behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, [thou] Son of David.Matthew 20:31
And the multitude rebuked them, because they should hold their peace: but they cried the more, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, [thou] Son of David.Matthew 21:9
And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.Matthew 21:15
And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the Son of David; they were sore displeased,Mark 10:47
And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out, and say, Jesus, [thou] Son of David, have mercy on me.Mark 10:48
And many charged him that he should hold his peace: but he cried the more a great deal, [Thou] Son of David, have mercy on me.Mark 12:35
. And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David?Luke 18:38
And he cried, saying, Jesus, [thou] Son of David, have mercy on me.Luke 18:39
And they which went before rebuked him, that he should hold his peace: but he cried so much the more, [Thou] Son of David, have mercy on me.Matthew 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Matthew 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Matthew 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Matthew 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Matthew 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest [it] in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.
Matthew 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
Matthew 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Mark 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.
Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
Luke 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:
Luke 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking [them] suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
Luke 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, [thou] Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
Luke 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.
John 1:34 And I saw, and ba
re record that this is the Son of God.
John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 9:35 . Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
John 11:4 When Jesus heard [that], he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
John 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Acts 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Romans 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
2 Cor 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, [even] by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.
Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1 John 5:10 . He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Revelation 2:18 . And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet [are] like fine brass;Ok I know this might be a lot but check it out.
John 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:Good morning, WJ and others,
I apololgize Keith, we were talking and then my computer went down. I tried everything to get it connected to the Internet and nothing worked. How frustrating! But this morning I was able to reboot and here I am.
Quote You say…Quote To this I say, Amen!
Yes after you twist my words
Please know that I must have misunderstood you; I would not “twist” your words on purpose. Clearly, I have misunderstood you, sorry for that.Quote You say…Quote If that is what you choose to call the Son of God and the Son of Man – then yes!
I am glad you admit he is a “Hybrid”. Will you ever be a Hybrid?
Ha! Reading alittle further here, I see you twisted my words. I did not admit that Jesus is a hybrid – I said if YOU wish to call the Son of Man and Son of God this, then yes I agree with your comparison. But I do not see where Jesus is two seperate things working together as one (which is what a “hybrid” is). No, Jesus is a combination of his parents. He is a divine man, not a hybrid man.Quote It would seem that the frustration would be with someone who dosnt have scriptures to back up their theology. Namely where is the scripture that says God had put sperm in Mary? Apparently its not so basic.
Surely you have read the gospel stories! Jesus was conceived! Praise God! So basic that it is missed and glossed over with non-scriptural explainations like “incarnation”.Quote God is Spirit. He does not have DNA. Again, scriptures please. You still havnt answered the questions?
Keith, I am answering everything you are bringing to me. I'm sorry if the answers are not the answers you want, or if I unknowingly misunderstand you. I'm doing the best I can with what I've got. I'll admit that I am not the sharpest theologian here! ha! By far! If you want scriptures that prove Jesus is the Son of God – read the gospels! Read what Jesus says about himself.Jesus was conceived. We know what conception means. Make the connection. If you have to fill in the blanks with ideas that are not consistent with conception (as the incarnation theories are), then you are off the straight and narrow path, imo. Of course we are all allowed our theologies. That is why we are here – to share what we (think) we know, and things we have been convinced of by the holy Spirit. To grow, and to possibly see where we might be off base. I have aligned much of my theories because of something a brother or sister has shared here……
But please know I would not twist something you say, or try to trap you in a question. I know that is how a lot of folks operate here, but that simply is not my style. I'm presenting what I know and what I feel the Lord has revealed to me – if someone can show me where I am off base, then I bring it back to the Lord and allow his Spirit to guide me.
Quote (IM4Truth @ Oct. 23 2007,19:15) Samuel That is putting it nicely
Jesus was in Heaven before He was born of Man.
That is a fact.Peace and Love Mrs.
Hi Sis Irene,I hope you are feeling better these days?
Well, I agree that it is a “fact” that Jesus was in heaven before the worlds began – but it's not as tidy as that. The whole debate is HOW was he in heaven before the worlds began? Some say he was God. Some say an angel. Some say a spirit son. Some say he was a thought/plan. While I contend he was with the Father in the form of a potential Son. Who's right?
Fact? Yes. Clear and without any question – far from it.
Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 24 2007,02:02) Why didn't God use dust to create Eve?
Good question!I believe the answer is because God wanted women to come from man, just as he wanted his Son to come from him.
I believe Jesus was a man. A divine man.
Is the first man different/better than the second man?
Is the first covenant different/better than the second covenant?Quote (Jodi @ Oct. 24 2007,03:21) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 23 2007,15:25) Hi WJ, Quote Your opinion. I could also say that if you deny that Jesus came in the flesh then you are of the spirit of antichrist.
I have never denied that Jesus came in the flesh. He was born, wasn't he?Quote But jesus conception is not a “natural conception” is it?
I believe that it is.
Jesus coming in the flesh means that he was nothing but flesh and blood, meaning fully human! Saying that he was biologically not human means denying flesh and blood. You said earlier if we took a DNA test of Jesus, you didn't think it would be the same as ours, that's denying Jesus came in the flesh in my opinion. Our DNA code says we are human, when the bible refers to us as being flesh, it is telling us that we are nothing other then human. When the bible tells us that Jesus came in the flesh, it is directly telling us that Jesus is Nothing but human period!In all honesty if your going to say that Jesus' conception was a “natural conception” then God must of had sex with Mary. Natural human conception occurs through intercourse does it not?
Hi Jodi,Natural conception comes about through sexual intercourse, correct. However, the way it “came about” was the miracle. It came about through a virgin conception (no sex). The actual conception process remained status quo. How do I know this? Jesus was born with two eyes and so on. He was also holy. How many humans do you know that are BORN HOLY?
Our code is set to 100% human, this is true. But flesh and blood is not the only thing that our code takes into consideration when it is tallying up our make-up. In other words, if Jesus were to take a DNA test, certainly it would show that he had flesh and blood. But we are told that the first man came of the earth, and the second from heaven.
Heavenly bodies are different from earthly bodies. Here me out on this, and if my thinking is so lost as to miss the prize, please give me reasons why here.
1 Corinthians 15:35-58, in part, emphasis mine
All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another…… There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splender of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory….
It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”, the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who ar of the earth, and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.
Just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so we shall [in the future] beear the likeness of the man from heaven.
My point is: Adam is 100% human man. He is “of” the earth. Jesus is not from the earth, but from heaven. Jesus is not “of” the earth, rather he is “of” God. We will also [in the future] be like him. Herein is the reason he must be the true Son of God – so that we can be like him when we are adopted into the family of God. We will then be “of” God instead “of” the earth.
Quote (Samuel @ Oct. 23 2007,17:40) Joseph's “SEED” might even have been plucked out of him in his sleep. Like the RIB of ADAM was plucked out to make woman. Who knows how god did it…but he did it. And I thank him that he did. And you should too.
SamuelPs 16:10
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.Acts 2:27
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.Acts 2:31
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.Acts 13:35
Wherefore he saith also in another [psalm], Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.Acts 13:37
But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.Its amazing how many times the Apostle quotes Ps 16:10.
This is what I believe. Jesus Body did not see corruption for his body was not of the first Adam. Jesus body is the firstborn of the New Creation. If Jesus would not have been killed he could have lived forever like Adam if Adam would not have sinned.
Since his body did not have sin which came upon the whole human race through the first Adam then he did not have to die. This is why Jesus said no man takes his life for he laid it down, and he also had the power to take it up.
Pss 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.Rom 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:Rom 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.This is why Yeshua is the spotless Lamb of God. His body was the sacrifice that could not be tainted by sin or by the blood line of the first Adam.
This also is why he is the second Adam. For by Adam's disobedience we were all concieved in sin and were made sinners that is why we all die without being killed.
When Jesus said he was not of this world, he litterally means he was not of this world. This world is the Old creation, that which is of Adam. The world Jesus says he is from was from above the New Creation. The Kingdom of God.
Jesus according to Phil 2:6-8 and Rom 8:3
Phil 2:7
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:Rom 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:Notice the above scriptures do not say… “was made as a man” or “sending his own son in the flesh”, but instead says…
“Was made in the “likeness of men” and “In the likeness of sinful flesh”.
The Greek word for likeness is: homoiōma, which means;
1) that which has been made after the likeness of something
a) a figure, image, likeness, representation
b) likeness i.e. resemblance, such as amounts almost to equality or identity
The definition of this word does not mean the same thing, but the “likeness” of something.
Amazingly this word is found only 3 times in the NT scriptures, the two I mention above and this one…
Rom 6:5
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:Our flesh is sinfull by nature. Romas 8:3 says sinfull flesh. Jesus said the Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.
Then Paul says…
Rom 6:5
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.The body of sin. Jesus did not have a body of sin. He could not be the perfect sacrifice if he did.
Our old man which is our spirits was born again whcih means that they died in Christ and was raised in newness of life. However the body of sin which is sown in corruption is yet to follow and be made like his glorious body. It was through the offerig of his perfect, sinless body this is possible. This is why Jesus said if we eat his flesh and drink his blood then we would have life. This is why Jesus is the firstborn from the dead, not that he was the first to rise from the dead, but the first to rise in the New Creation. His flesh did not see corruption.
What does this mean? It means that God prepared or created a new Body in the flesh of Mary that was not tainted by sin nor of the blood line of the first Adam. Scientifically and scripturally the blood line comes through the man.
Jesus Body and blood was new, fresh, clean, sinless, untainted, spotless and perfect. Not of this world but of the New Creation. God had to do this through a virgin.
Heb 10:5
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:Heb 10:7
Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.Heb 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.Heb 10:10
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.What does this mean?
Rom 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.So the Angel said of this glorious miracle of conception…
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Lk 1:35
There is no other man that the Angel could say this to…
that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Jesus truly is the “Word that was with God and the Word that was God” that was tabernacled among us. He came in the “likeness” of sinfull flesh and for sin condemned sin in the flesh. No other man which was born after the first Adam could do this!
Phil 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.The Greek word for “Fashion” is, 'schēma', which means;
1) the habitus, as comprising everything in a person which strikes the senses, the figure, bearing, discourse, actions, manner of life etc.
The word Habitus is a latin word which means;
In biology, the term is sometimes used to denote a phenetic similarity in external morphology or the characteristic mode of growth or occurrence of an organism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HabitusAgain, not the same thing as the “Body of sin”.
Jesus was found in the fashion of men as the Word/God in the flesh. This is why he could say “If you have seen me you ha
ve seen the Father/God”. He was not speaking in a metaphorical way. He was and is the “Image of the invisible God”, Col 1:15 He was and is the express image of Gods person/substance in the flesh. Heb 1:3The virgin birth was not a normal birth. If it was then Why a virgin?
Jesus came into the world through the body of his flesh, the likeness of sinfull flesh to condemn sin in the flesh so that we could have victory over our bodys of sin.
Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.Sin shall no longer have dominion over me for his seed remains in me and I have victory over the flesh and its lust, if I walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh then I will not fulfill the lust of the flesh and thereby fulfill the whole law.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 24 2007,06:12) Jesus body is the firstborn of the New Creation.
Sincere question here: If Jesus is the second person of God, and he is the firstborn of the new Creation, when we are re-born and part of the new Creation…..will be be God, too?You see my logic? If we follow Christ as the firstfruit, and he is God, we must also then be God after we have followed him?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 24 2007,06:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 24 2007,06:12) Jesus body is the firstborn of the New Creation.
Sincere question here: If Jesus is the second person of God, and he is the firstborn of the new Creation, when we are re-born and part of the new Creation…..will be be God, too?You see my logic? If we follow Christ as the firstfruit, and he is God, we must also then be God after we have followed him?
not3Jesus is the “image of God”, he is the “express image” of his person or substance.
We shall be “like” him for we shall see him as he is, but we will not be him the Word/God that came in the likeness of sinfull flesh. We are “partakers” of the divine nature, Jesus is divine!
We are “made” in Gods image and in his likeness.
Jesus is the “Image of God”. We shall bear his image but we will not become the image.
There could only be one firstborn.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 24 2007,06:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 24 2007,06:12) Jesus body is the firstborn of the New Creation.
Sincere question here: If Jesus is the second person of God, and he is the firstborn of the new Creation, when we are re-born and part of the new Creation…..will be be God, too?You see my logic? If we follow Christ as the firstfruit, and he is God, we must also then be God after we have followed him?
Not3BTW.
We have all ready been “re-born”, John 3:3-6. But now we wait for the redemtion of our bodys.
Rom 8:23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the
praise of his glory.Eph 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.WJ;
A very well deliberated and executed post. I would only add that Christ spoke of a relationship with his Father before the foundation of the world and before he was sent down from heaven. There can be nothing metaphorical about a relationship. So when Christ was in heaven with his father he could have only been the Son of God. If he were the Word he would be God himself and contradict his own teaching that he was not God but the Son of God. I know we have had contentions on this issue in the past, but I still believe that any doctrine that holds that Christ was anything less or more than the Son of God in heaven prior is a denial of Christ Sonship, which he was emphatic about and was identified as such by all who knew him in scripture, even the soldiers who crucified him.
Take Care
Steven
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