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Gene,
Two points for you:
re: Ps110:1 You claim the second “Lord/Adon”) in the sentence means a human ruler. While Adon can be used for a human master (see Genesis 18:12, one of many such examples), I note the following:
Strong’s “âdôn (aw-done’) From an unused root (meaning to rule); sovereign, that is, controller (human or divine): – lord, master, owner. Compare also names beginning with “Adoni-”.
Here are a just a few references where Adon is used of God/Jehovah – Exodus 23:17; Exodus 32:22; Exodus 34:23; Deut 10:17. I think I have as much right based on scripture to claim Lord/Adon in Ps 110:1 can equally be referring to God. But i don’t need to just rely on that because Messiah is David’s superior and was seen as such by David. And as I said Jesus was quoting this scripture to silence the Pharisees who simply saw Messiah as a son of David (human descendant). In the NT context Jesus was also showing that David’s Lord (Adon) preexisted David in the same way “root” of David and “root” of Jesse means forebear, one from whom they (Jesse & David) came.
You charge me with using a “pilithura of words”. Scripture should be interpreted by comparing scripture with scripture, and in its context, as I did, not by quarrelling over words (2 Timothy 2:14).
re: birth of Jesus and being called son of God. I did not claim that the verses in Luke provided prior existence of Jesus as son of God. You and Jodi claim that Jesus only became the Son Of God at his anointing. This is incorrect as I showed by quoting what the Angel Gabriel said to Mary. He was called the Son Of God from birth.
I would also like you to answer just with scripture references (no comments) where Jesus is called Son/seed of Adam and Second Adam. Please note I don’t want scriptures saying Son Of Man (anthrōpos) or second man (anthrōpos).
Cheers.
Howdy Pilgrim,
Liked your last post from the previous page!
Gene also has trouble with this verse (indicating Jesus was “The Son of God” from conception):
“Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists?
who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth?
what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?
5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” (Prov 30:4-6)what is his name ……. JEHOVAH (The LORD, meaning “The Owner”)
and what is his son’s name …… Jesus (Lord, meaning Owner – as he is Son of “The Owner”)Thankyou Ed J for that lovely passage from Prov 30. How wonderful it is to truly recognise who Jesus is. Praise God.
Hi Jodi,
YOU: he does not teach THAT
he together with the Father is God.
POOR Jody!
WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FROM A CARNALLY MINDED PERSON? WITH EVERY RESPECT!
Scripture:
John17:1 Glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee.
IN THE ABOVE BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON ARE
EQUAL
THEY BOTH GLORIFY EACH OTHER!
A GLORFY WHICH BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON NEVER HAD BEFORE!
A GLORY WHICH THE FATHER COULDN’T HAVE WITHOUT THE SON, and
THE SON WITHOUT THE FATHER! THUS
THE FATHER GLORIFIED THE SON and IS NOW THE ONLY MANIFESTED
TRUE GOD ON EARTH IN JESUS CHRIST 1 John 5:20
THE SON GLORIFIED THE FATHER AND IS NOW, THE ONLY MANIFESTED
TRUE MAN IN HEAVEN, ON THE FATHER’S RIGHT HAND, IN JESUS CHRIST
MORE SCRIPTURE:
John16:14 He shall glorify me: because he shall receive of mine and shall shew it to you.
15All things whatsoever the Father hath
are mine (as the Father cannot achieve all things by Himself, CANNOT BE GOD ON EARTH WITHOUT JESUS,)
Therefore I said that he shall receive of me and shew it to you.
MORE SCRIPTURE:
John17:10 And all my things are thine, and thine are mine:
ALL JESUS’ HUMAN ATTRIBUTES ARE THE FATHER’S IN JESUS CHRIST AND
ALL THE FATHER’S SPIRIT ATTRIBUTES ARE JESUS’, ALSO IN JESUS CHRIST
CONFIRMED: and
I am glorified in THEM.
BOTH THE SPIRIT ATTRIBUTES OF THE FATHER AND THE HUMAN ATTRIBUTES OF THE SON IN, (John13:31-32, John 17:1)
OUR LORD GOD JESUS CHRIST.
MORE SCRIPTURE
John 14:11 LET NOT
your heart BE TROUBLED.
You believe in God:
believe also in me.
NOT IN GOD ALONE AS THERE ‘S NO GOD ON EARTH WITHOUT JESUS.
SATAN HAS EVERY RIGHT UP TO NOW TO CALL HIMSELF
THE GOD OF THIS WORLD.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Carmel,
Isn’t the Apostle John, speaking by grace and revelation which the Holy Ghost gives, so wonderful in his gospel and epistles in declaring the divinity of Jesus?
The scriptures you quote from John 13, 14 and 17 and 1 John 5 are such a blessing. How wonderful that Jesus should encourage us to believe in him in the same way we believe in God.
Truly, if he were not God manifest in the flesh he would be stealing glory from God. But He always brought God the Father glory “I have glorified thee on the earth” (John 17:4), never seeking His own, blessed selfless son of God.
Having finished the work Father gave Him He was glorified by Father with the glory He had WITH Father BEFORE the world was. Gloriously clear to the spiritual man.
“we know that the Son of God is come, and has given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life”, even that ETERNAL LIFE that was in the WORD who was both WITH and IS God.
Amen. How sure is our Hope, built on nothing less than GOD himself.
Blessings Carmel.
PILGRIM……I did answer with scripture, but you denied it. Lets do this again Ok?, let’s go slow and not jump around ok, now please tell us what this is “truly saying” .
Psa 110:1…. “the LORD (strong H3068) said unto my lord (strong H113) ,
Do you see that the words for “LORD” and “Lord ” used there are “completely different words” just one simple question, can you see that those two are different. YES, OR NO?
Do you see and understand there are two, “different beings being spoken of there? YES OR NO.?
Do you see that “LORD” IS YEHWEH , the Almighty God? YES OR NO
Do you see that “Lord” is any human ruler of anykind? YES OR NO
IF we can’t get past this simple example then the rest is futile. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Gene,
Please reread my posts – I have answered you and gave you references to check where “Adon” was used in Exodus & Deuteronomy for Jehovah.
Please answer my question with the scriptures I asked for.
Pilgrim……you have not answered my questions to the above post. Simple questions but no answers. Just take a very little time and answer it OK. Skirting off in a different direction is not honestly answering them.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Pilgram…..you ask me to show Jesus linnage from Abraham, it is clearly seen in scripture, I don’t want to post it here, but you or anyone can easely see it, in the linnage of JESUS GIVEN IN LUKE , it shows his linnage all the way back to Adam and includes ABRAHAM also. Check it out and let me know if you can see it ok?
1 col 15:45 shows he is the last Adam, so he is still referenced as a decedent of Adam, just as we are, these text show clearly that as Jesus is consider a “last” Adam, like we shall be also as this text is showing the pregression of “ALL” mankind kind , which included Jesus also, being shown as the last or finished work for mankind.
This scripture does not seperate Jesus from any of his brothers and sisters, no scripture seperates Jesus from our exact likeness of him, only false teachers do that, by teaching the “DOCTRINE OF SEPERATION “. derived from SATAN himself. 2ths2.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Gene,
You are disingenuous- you have been answered but obviously don’t like the answer. Since you won’t read the scriptures I sent you answering you very specifically here are two of them:”Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord (H113 Adon) GOD (H3068 Jehovah), the God (H430 Elohim) of Israel.” Exo 34:23
“For the LORD (Jehovah) your God (Elohim) is God (Elohim) of gods (Elohim) and Lord (Adon) of lords (Adon), a great God (H410 El)mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:” Deu 10:17
Now please just do what I have asked and provide me with the scriptural references I requested.
PILGRIM….Your the one being ‘disingenuous ” here not me, even the scriptures you address above still prove my point. The “LORD” (ADONAI) saying he is the “LORD” (YEHWEH) of all lords (human rulers) and GOD of all God’s (man made Gods), does not mean he himself is any of those lords (adon) or any of those false gods either. WHAT HE IS SAYING is he is “above” all of those “. Just as he is head of “EVERYTHING” both in heaven and in earth, including the man Jesus our brother, according to Jesus that is, and Jesus deffinitly includes himself also. But then you have to start believing in what Jesus said, inorder to start to understand the truth. IMO
YOU STILL HAVE NOT ADDRESSED THE SCRIPTURE, I “CLEARLY” QUOTED. with a , YES OR NO answer, but have skirted around it. Claiming you have by posting some other scripture, is what I would call being “disingenuous” .
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Hi All,
Isaiah 42;6-8 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. I am the LORD (YHWH): that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
JESUS is NOT YHWH, he is the son of Jesse who receives glory from YHWH, and this Jesus says for us to pray to his Father and our Father, to his God and our God, where hallowed be our Father’s NAME.
Jesus IS FIRSTBORN of the dead, the firstborn of MANY.
He IS the Son of Man returning in our Father’s glory.
THIS firstborn was declared in YHWH’S word before the world began, all things that YHWH made alone by Himself He did by reason of and for THIS FIRSTBORN of many. From the beginning this Son of Man was our heavenly Father’s appointed heir, who would receive dominion over all the works of YHWH’S HANDS.
Gene,
The blessed Apostle Paul, when writing to Timothy, charged believers “before the Lord” that they “strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting/apostatize of the hearers.” I will not engage in striving over words. Can I.e. courage you to do the same, to move away from striving about words, and turn to expositing on the texts within their context, what the Apostle called “rightly dividing the word of truth”.
Now there is no doubt that Christians believe and teach that God is indeed ADON of all the earth. ADON of all ADON’s, Master of all masters. But as in Exodus and other scriptures he Is addressed as ADON Jehovah. “Three times in a year the Israelites had to appear before ADON Jehovah”. Now in Ps 110:1
1. Both terms (titles) are used
2. David is speaking by the Spirit
3. He is speaking of something he heard
4. He heard God (Jehovah) speaking to the Messiah
5. God is speaking to him as ADON, as head/master of David.
6. God was speaking about ADON (Messiah) sitting on God’s right hand etc. That is speaking to David’s forbear, the root from which David came.
7. David called Messiah “my LORD” (master).
The plain reason Jesus challenged the Pharisees with his question was to show them Messiah is more than just a human descendant Of David. The Jews had said “For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God”. To which Jesus had replied “Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?”.
In the very scripture under discussion, we see Messiah is the forbear of (prior to) David I.e. preexisted, he is the Lord Of David and he is the descendant Of David.
The question posed by Jesus was sufficient to silence the Pharisees ignorance as to who Messiah truly is, not just a man but more. Indeed Jesus the Messiah is LORD of LORDS (addressed the same way as JEHOVAH) and KING of KINGS – 1 Tim 6:15; Rev 17:14; Rev 19:16.
As to Jesus as Son Of Man, in all honesty, you should desist from calling Jesus a son of Adam and the second Adam, as you are unable to provide scriptures which state either of those claims, and never will be able to, as there are no such scriptures. I hope you will concede your error here and desist from using these terms.
Unless you are going to rightly divide the word of truth, cease striving over words and concede to having made unsubstantiated claims this discussion cannot proceed further.
Hi Pilgrim, and LU
ME: Blessing to you and to all who are filled with
the spirit of truth
AND TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE.
YOU: Amen. How sure is our Hope, built on nothing less than GOD himself.
ME: That’s why
GOD IS LOVE!
GOD, HIMSELF EMBODIED IN “THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN FROM
THE BEGINNING John1:1
THE BODY FURNISHED SPECIFICALLY BY THE FATHER, IN THE FATHER’S SUBSTANCE Hebrews 1:3
NOT FOR JESUS TO KEEP, BUT FOR THE GLORY OF THE FATHER
SIMPLY TO BE SACRIFICED; ATTENTION PLEASE:
IN EXCHANGE FOR THE HUMAN RACE, dead; ex satanic. PRECISELY
ON HIS RESURRECTION! the man born again John 3:3
Mentioned in 1Peter1:3 Blessed be THE God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
who according to his
GREAT MERCY HATH REGENERATED US
unto a lively hope, by
the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead:
4Unto an inheritance, incorruptible, and undefiled and that cannot fade, reserved in heaven for you, 5Who, by the power of God, are kept by faith unto salvation, ready to be revealed in the last time.
THUS GOD THE FATHER
ONLY IN JESUS IS
OUR SAVIOUR!
CONFIRMED:
Genesis 22:6 And he took the wood (THE CROSS) for the holocaust, and
laid it upon Isaac his son;
and he himself carried in his hands fire and a sword. And as they two went on together,
Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said:
God will provide
himself (embodied in Jesus)
a victim for a holocaust,
my son. (Here Abraham simply said so, knowing that Isaac was
“THE WORD” Jesus to be, NOT ACTUALLY HIS SON!
(IN ISAAC WAS “THE WORD” Jesus to be, embodied on his mysterious conception, LIKE JESUS WAS, without sex, and Abraham became the friend of God. The fact that God asked Abraham to offer it as a sacrifice, as it was not actually HIS SON!)
So they went on together.
THE FATHER and THE SON, ON THE CROSS!
John8:56 Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it and was glad.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi All,
Of whom does the prophet Isaiah speak in chapter 42? Of Christ, the Messiah, the Son Of God. As Jesus said to the man healed of his blindness “Dost thou believe on the Son of God? He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him. And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.” John 9:35-37
Who is this Son Of God? “the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.“. “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.“.
This is the Son Of whom scripture says “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets. Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;”
Yes as scripture says “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.”
Glory be to God, the three in heaven, the Father, and the Word, and the Spirit, for this testimony, this record of His Son.
Hallelujah.
Hi Pilgrim,
YOU: Yes as scripture says “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.”
ME:
First off, the “Son” promised an eternal throne, is the son of David who God makes into His own Son, where God does not take His mercy away from him. FIRST you have the son of David, and THEN God MAKES him His Son.
1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will establish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
We read of this prophecy again,
Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Secondly, Jesus explains how he is a god, and it’s the same reason that God called the prophet Moses a god.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them,Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Now think on that Pilgrim. God called Moses a god to whom the word of God came. It also just so happens that prophecy was given by God to Moses where God would raise up a prophet like Moses from AMONG BRETHREN, and God would put His words into this prophets mouth. Those who did not believe in this prophet RAISED UP AMONG BRETHREN would be destroyed.
Jesus was anointed with the Spirit in full measure and sent to PREACH God’s word (Luke 4 and John 3), and by such our God could call Jesus a god, as the word of God came to this anointed MAN.
Thirdly, Jesus has righteousness as he is the son of Jesse CALLED to righteousness. Jesus doesn’t judge by his own eyes and ears, it is through the Spirit that is upon him where God directs all his ways that he is a judge, why we are told in the NT that Jesus judges because he is the Son of Man. We are likewise told that it is a MAN who God ordained to judge.
Fourthly, in this Hebrew’s passage you are told that Jesus is ANOINTED ABOVE THY FELLOWS! Did that part of the passage escape your mind Pilgrim?
Fifthly, that which is speaking of our One God the Father who is doing the anointing, you mistakenly credit to be speaking of the anointed Jesus.
“But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O god, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore god, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.”
Pilgrim, the one who is anointed by God, the one who is raised from the DEAD by God receiving the PROMISED Holy Spirit, said to be begotten by God fulfilling prophecy concerning David’s son, is NOT the Lord that art the same, whose years do not fail.
Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
RECALL 1 Chronicles 17 speaking of the son of David who God WOULD BE A FATHER TO, “14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.”
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Pilgrim, can you see, can you hear??????????????
For a habitation of God THROUGH the Spirit, the Spirit that Jesus received upon rising from the dead as a firstborn of many, the first begotten of the dead.
Recall, God was going to settle, David’s son whom He would make into His own Son, into His house.
Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them,Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
regeneration – Paliggenesia -NEW BIRTH!!!
Pilgrim, one who is the leader of obtaining a NEW BIRTH, who has followers to that same birth, is NOT the Lord who does not change. Jesus was a mortal man who then received God’s promise that He declared before the world began, eternal life. He was promised to be settled in God’s house, he was the anointed man made the chief cornerstone.
Pilgrim, we are JOINT heirs with Christ, where those who are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God, the Spirit bears witness to our spirit that WE are children of God.
READ 1 Corinthians 15, Jesus is the man raised up according to an order. As prophesied unto the Son of Man God gave this man dominion over the works of God’s hands where he will destroy all enemies putting them under his feet, then God comes down to earth to dwell with us where He is ALL IN ALL.
Hi Jodi,
Thankyou for quoting all those precious scriptures.
I, like all those saved by grace through faith, those born again (born from above) and filled with the person of the Holy Spirit, the other Comforter, know full well that Jesus is the seed of Abraham, the seed of David, the Prophet like unto Moses, the Priest after the order of Melchizedek, the Branch, the Messenger of the Covenant, the Righteous Servant, the suffering Servant Of Isaiah 53, made under the law, was anointed with the Holy Spirit and Power and went around doing good, healing all those oppressed with Devil for God was with him, that he was the Son Of Man and the Son Of God.
Believers believe the being who was Jesus came into the World from the Father (was made flesh) to accomplish The Father’s will, which he did by only doing and saying what Father showed him and spoke, culminating in the death, resurrection and ascension then returned home to Father.
Where you are amiss is in saying Jesus only became the Son Of God at his baptism in water because the voice declared it. This does not hold up as a valid interpretation of scripture because the same voice said the same at the at the mount of Transfiguration, which on your interpretation would mean he was made the Son Of God a second time, which is plainly absurd. In addition I have pointed out to you and Gene he was called the Son Of God prior to his birth by the Angel Gabriel. Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of a Virgin (no seed of Adam involved) who was called Emmanuel from birth.
Where you are also amiss is not satisfactorily recognising who truly Jesus is and failing to properly understand all the references that demonstrate Jesus preexisted before his taking on flesh and blood, and where he was residing while on earth and what glory he had with Father before the world began, to which he returned. Of course God purposed things according to his own will before the foundation of the world. But remember the language of scripture is talking about a person not just a purpose, plan or word.
I will repeat again just a sample of verses where it is self evident the person who was Jesus preexisted, underling the specific phrases of interest and then I’ll say a few words about your understanding of Hebrews 1: 8-13.
“And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.” Joh 3:13
“Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.” Joh 6:32-33
“For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.” Joh 6:38
“This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.” Joh 6:58
“What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?” Joh 6:62
“Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;” John 13:3
“And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” John 17:5
“But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.” Galatians 4:4-5
A common example will help to illustrate. President Trump sends an Ambassador to the UK to conducted talks and then return to the USA. In summing up the visit the Ambassador says “I came from the USA, went into the UK to complete the job the President gave me and I returned again to the USA” after completing my business there. Clearly the Ambassador existed as a person in the USA, was sent, came into the other place the UK then returned back to the USA once the assigned task was completed.
Now as to Hebrews 1:8-13. Please note where talking of a person:
1. God addressed Jesus, his Son, as God (not gods)
2. He said thy throne I.e. the Son’s throne, that is God the son’s throne
3. Called the Son Lord
4. And stated that this Lord created I.e. laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens were the works of thine hands:
5. Stated the earth and heavens would perish but He would remain
6. Stated the Son would fold up (a creative act) the earth and the heavens
7. Stated the Sons years would not fail.
How can a man born of a women, made under the law, be outside earth and heavens so as to creat and destroy them? Only God is outside time, space and matter.There are so many other incidents (far too many to canvass in this short precise) talking of Jesus as being the creator (Colossians 1:16-17), having no beginning of days or end of years (a High Priest Of the order of Melchizedek) etc. These are attributes that belong to God alone. Jesus is the WORD who is God and the Son Of God sent into the world from heaven as well as the Son Of Man, born of a Virgin.
Pilgrim……LISTEN TO WHAT GOD SAID ABOUT HIMSELF, “God is “not” a man that he should lie, nor a “SON OF MAN” that he should repent. Jesus said over 80 times he was a “son of man”.. seems you have a problem here , you need to explain. The LORD our GOD also said he looked for another GOD and found “none”. This was said before Jesus existed on this earth, which you say he was a preexisting GOD, SEEMS GOD the Father had a different view.
Another point you have not addressed, WHY DID THE LORD OUR GOD SAY, “Your shall have “NO” other God besides me” surely he would have made an exception for Jesus, being another God right?
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Pilgrim……No God is “adon” , he is “adonai” , he is no lord (human ruler) he is “LORD” OUR GOD , the single creator of all thing that exist, THAT HE AND HE ALONE CREATED BY HIMSELF.
That’s the God that Jesus believed in and preached to us, and so do true believers belive in GOD the Father and the “man” Jesus.
Creating another GOD, IS CALLED “IDOLATRY ” and all who preach Jesus as a God are exactly that, according to the LORD OUR GOD. If you put so much effort to try to CONVINCE us that Jesus is and was a prexistent GOD, what does that make you people?
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
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