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That’s not what i was talking about
Of course God is Spirit … etc
But I meant no one really knows what this is PHYSICALLY TALKING because the question is: what did the Son of God get emptied of ..Well the post answered that anyway. Foreknowledge and his divine nature probably because he came in the flesh. Because he took on him human nature, it would be assumed he left divine nature behind but returned to that after death. Unless he existed with both natures at the same time which some propose, he was either divine or human and clearly while on Earth he was a man.
He came in the flesh.
Hi Jodi,
Thankyou for your recent posts. I can see where you are coming from but don’t agree with your view or interpretation of scripture. Apparently you do see Jesus/Christ preexisted but only as a purpose or word in YHWH and then only as a coming man of Adam. You also see Jesus just as a man full of YHWH’s spirit.
Without a doubt Elohiym (plural) created all things and Yehovah said to the woman “I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.“ (Gen 3:15) indicating that a man from woman would rise to bring redemption and salvation for all mankind (Jew and Gentile).
However as said before this promised man was not conceived in the normal way and then filled/anointed with the Holy Spirit as was John the Baptist. Jesus was conceived by YHWH/GOD and given through Mary the Virgin (never having known a man) a purposed and prepared (human) body to do YHWH’s will, that one complete sacrifice for sins forever, the redemption of mankind (Hebrews 10:5-7).
Now we note that this Jesus/the Lamb Of God and baptiser with the Spirit, is to be bowed down to and called LORD (Kurios) (Philippians 2:9-11), worshipped by angels and the redeemed (Hebrews 1:6; Revelation 5) and He was so worshipped by the wise men even as a babe (Matthew 2:2), all which belong to YEHOVAH alone (Exodus 34:14, Matthew 4:10).
If you worship only a Man (Jesus) you have made an idol/image of YEHOVAH (Exodus 20:2-5), something forbidden by YEHOVAH himself. But if you worship Jesus for who He is THE LORD GOD himself, then you obey the commandments of YHWH.
There is no doubt scripture reveals Jesus as God and as the creator. “But unto the Son(Jesus) he (God) saith, Thy throne, O God (Jesus), is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom” (Hebrews 1:8). And further “Thou Lord, (Jesus) in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail” (Hebrews 1:10-12). Jesus as the WORD who as a person and bearing the title of LORD certainly existed pre creation and came from heaven to earth (John 3:13,17).
The Messiah himself taught in the Temple that David called the Messiah LORD/KURIOS and yet Jesus was the Son Of David (Mark 12:35-37). God’s gospel “Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead” (Roman 1:3-4).
Further the fact that both the Holy Spirit and Christ, as a preexisting one, are spoken of as He, I.e. personal pronouns, clearly indicates that are persons and beings not just purposes or things/powers in the hands of GOD/YHWH/YEHOVAH.
To repeat in another way what I wrote before, to speak of Jesus being the “root” of Jesse and David, and of him existing “before” Abraham etc, is to speak of him as a person or being NOT a purpose or word, otherwise Jesse, David and Abraham were only purposes not persons. Furthermore Jesus said “before Abraham was I AM” here using a personal pronoun “I” (some even understanding this to mean Jesus was declaring himself as I AM, THAT I AM).
Jesus the Christ our Lord and Saviour IS both the Son Of God and Son Of Man, God manifested in the flesh dwelling among men as a righteous man full of the Holy Spirit, full of grace and truth, “the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, who when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high”, in whom “dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily”, being so much better than angels and men, to be worshipped and adored.
“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.” (1 John 5:20-21).
Hi All,
I note the discussion around the scriptural phrase in Philippians 2:7 “he emptied himself” which other translations reads “made himself of no reputation” etc. This was a choice He made.
There is much that could be said but here is a snippet.
We clearly see in Jesus the character and nature of God as Love, Light and Life. But while on earth he did not exercise other divine capabilities like omniscience (all knowing – eg. not knowing the timing of his return) or omnipresence (being everywhere at the same time) or omnipotence (all power – taking the kingdoms by ruling this world with a rod of iron) etc things that are attributes of God. He lived within space, time and matter which God is outside, so he limited himself in this regard as well.
Jesus did and said things to evidence who He was and the truth of what he taught.
There were some things he only could do as the Messiah, the Branch I.e. death (a sacrifice & offering), burial, resurrection and ascension achieving redemption, reconciliation and salvation. Isaiah tells us “the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end” Isaiah 9:6-7.
We know that Jesus chose to take on the form of a servant, doing and speaking only what the Father gave him to do and speak, including laying down his life to ransom many (the Father then raising him from the dead). He had authority because he was under authority (a good lesson for us to follow).
In his humanity Jesus did do many healings, deliverances and miracles including raising ones from the dead for God was with Him.
The Apostles also did wonders evidencing the gospel they preach and the authority they had been given.
These abilities and powers have been given to men right throughout history particularly since Calvary (all though many also before the incarnation of Christ, the anointed servant and branch of the LORD) eg Moses at the Red Sea, Joshua at Jordan, Elijah & Elisha raising the dead etc to name a few.
As a man, Jesus lived a holy righteous perfect manhood and is God’s new (“proper, standard”) man. He Jesus being the firstborn of many like brethren.
Through the Holy Spirit, Christ & the Father take up residence in the redeemed sinner so such can have this new manhood lived out in them.
Blessings.
Davo. …..Scripture says Jesus “learned obediance” by the things he suffered, tell us how could a God “learn obediance”, seening GOD IS ALL KNOWING?
As far as what emptied himself is concerned with, Jesus could have used his position as the anointed one of GOD, to advance his own reputation, and use it to glorify himself, but he did not. Here is an example, you have to pay very close attention to exactly what Jesus said here.
John 11:40….Jesus said unto her (Martha) , said I not unto you, that , if you would believe, you should see the Glory of God? Those words could have very easely been taken easely as himself being God, right? Even God the Father could have thought Jesus was going to steal his Glory as in the case of MOSES AT THE ROCK OF MERIBA, but notice what Jesus said right after he said that,
John 11:41 ………….“Father, I thank you that you hear me. And I knew that you hear me always: (now pay close attention ), ” but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they might believe that “you” have sent me.
Did you see that Davo?, Jesus was not going to allow God to think he was the one who had the power to raise Lazarus back to life himself, but it was God the Father who did it, so he clarified to the Father why he said it. Jesus made sure God the Father got all the Glory for what he was doing through him, he did not make the mistake that Moses made.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Good Morning Davo,
Thanks for your reply.
I’d like to address some of the things you countered with.
YOU:
However as said before this promised man was not conceived in the normal way and then filled/anointed with the Holy Spirit as was John the Baptist. Jesus was conceived by YHWH/GOD and given through Mary the Virgin (never having known a man) a purposed and prepared (human) body to do YHWH’s will, that one complete sacrifice for sins forever, the redemption of mankind (Hebrews 10:5-7).
ME: The virgin birth prophesied from Isaiah 7, tells me that the purpose of this birth was for a sign unto the house of David, a sign to identify God’s promise unto David concerning his son who would be given David’s throne for eternity.
I will say it again, the purpose was for a SIGN to identify the specific promised son of David of whom would be great and of whom would be called the Son of the Highest and be given his father David’s throne (Luke 1:32). I am NOT going to change the WORD of God as to the very purpose He gave regarding Jesus’s birth. The power of YHWH’s Spirit came upon Mary to fulfill the sign.
Matthew speaks to the Genesis of his savior Jesus who at the time of Matthew’s writing was the Son of Man sitting at God’s right hand, he declares that Jesus is the son of Abraham and David. He gives us the generations (genealogy) of Jesus taking us from Abraham to David and from David to Joseph. What a small task for God’s Spirit to take the seed of Joseph, who is of the house of David, and place it within his betrothed wife.
In prophecy of the virgin birth, the child would know to choose the good over the evil, and we read in Luke that the child Jesus “grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.”
This child is of the genes (generations) of Abraham and David just as YHWH had promised, and YHWH also promised unto this son of David that He would be a Father unto him. YHWH called all generations from the beginning.
Isaiah 41:2 Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow. 3 He pursued them, and passed safely; even by the way that he had not gone with his feet. 4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD
Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.
Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together…30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory
Davo, In Acts 17 we have a God who created the world and all things therein, where He made of one blood all nations of men and had determined the times before appointed the bounds of their habituation. We then read of this God having appointed a day in which he would judge the world by a man whom He ordained, giving us assurance by having raised him from the dead.
Davo, YHWH tells us directly that He made all things by himself, alone in Isaiah 44. Also the text in Isaiah 42 and 45 gives us first YHWH saying that He made heaven and earth and man, and then we are given YHWH calls a man, the son of Jesse, to righteousness, directing all his ways, where He holds his hand and keeps him so he will fulfill YHWH’s covenant that He made to all nations. All things that YHWH alone created He does so through (BY REASON OF) this man and for this man. We read of a man receiving an eternal throne where he sits on it according to the flesh as the son of David.
Also we are given yet again in Psalm 8 a Creator and a man, a man who the Creator is mindful of, visits, crowns with glory and honor, and gives this man dominion over that which the Creator made with His hands. On top of this you are told that the Son of Man returns in his Father’s glory. The man Jesus’s glory is that he has God’s Spirit upon him, as you were told he rose from the dead receiving it according to a promise, where it dwells in him for all eternity. The prophesies of Isaiah concerning the son of Jesse having YHWH’s Spirit upon him TO fulfill YHWH’s will are not all fulfilled yet, and it is the Son of Man returning in the glory of our Father to complete His purpose declared by YHWH from the beginning.
Through the man who shed his blood we are told that by him we are justified from all things. Without this man and the Spirit of YHWH upon him to fulfill YHWH’s purpose for His creation, nothing would have been made that YHWH had made, which He said He did ALONE, by HIMSELF.
Hebrews 9: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Genesis 1: 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
You are told that 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Heaven and earth were created by YHWH ALONE through the power of His Spirit. When He said, “let there be light”, His word before that light was that of another light, Jesus the anointed, our promised savior according to the seed of David. YHWH would have never said, “let there be light”, if it were not for the word He gave prior of another coming light.
Hi Davo,
YOU:
Now we note that this Jesus/the Lamb Of God and baptiser with the Spirit, is to be bowed down to and called LORD (Kurios) (Philippians 2:9-11), worshipped by angels and the redeemed (Hebrews 1:6; Revelation 5) and He was so worshipped by the wise men even as a babe (Matthew 2:2), all which belong to YEHOVAH alone (Exodus 34:14, Matthew 4:10).
If you worship only a Man (Jesus) you have made an idol/image of YEHOVAH (Exodus 20:2-5), something forbidden by YEHOVAH himself. But if you worship Jesus for who He is THE LORD GOD himself, then you obey the commandments of YHWH.
ME: Worshiping (give homage or reverence of superiority, superior rank)
Davo, we are to give YHWH our heavenly Father our reverence AS the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD. Only He is the God of gods and the Lord of Lord’s. YHWH made Jesus into a lord over other men who are likewise given lordship. If we are under the service of one of those men who is under the service of Jesus, whereby Jesus is under the service of YHWH, we are all under the service of YHWH, doing what is pleasing to Him.
But the point is, as Jesus is our lord we most certainly can give him “worship”, bow to him according to his superior rank as YHWH’s chosen Shepherd.
Below we see David being “worshiped/reverenced”, not as the One True God, but as God’s anointed King.
31 Then Bathsheba bowed with her face to the earth, and did “reverence” to the king, and said, Let my lord king David live for ever.
reverence – Shachah, to bow down, before superior in homage
worship 99, bow 31, bow down 18, obeisance 9, reverence 5
If you worship Jesus as the One True God, you are breaking YHWH’s commandment. If you worship Jesus as the one chosen from among brethren by YHWH, as a king of kings on earth ruling according to all YHWH commands him to do, you worship him in truth.
“But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things”
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”
Hi Jodi,
YOU: What a small task for God’s Spirit to take the seed of Joseph, who is of the house of David, and place it within his betrothed wife.
You keep on insisting
PUTTING GOD IN THE SAME BASKET WITH HUMANS!
Are you saying that God needed Joseph’s sperm to
HAVE HIS SON?
SCRIPTURE IS CLEAR JODI:
Matthew 1:18 Now the generation of Christ was in this wise. When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found
with child,
of the Holy Ghost.
19Whereupon Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing publicly to expose her, was minded to put her away privately. 20But while he thought on these things, behold the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her,
is of the Holy Ghost.
Where is the sperm mentioned?
Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself was beginning about the age of thirty years:
being
(as it was supposed) the son of Joseph,
If scripture made it clear that Jesus is not Joseph’s son, but
was supposed to be so,
why do you insist that Joseph’s sperm was used?
Tell me Jodi:
WHAT IS THE REASON THAT THE HOLY GHOST
DID ALL THIS MEDDLING ACCORDING TO YOUR CARNAL MINDED MENTALITY
WHEN JOSEPH WAS NOT WITH MARY!
WHY DIDN’T THE HOLY GHOST WAIT FOR THE JEWISH MARRIAGE RITUAL AND
THEN GOT MARY PREGNANT PROPERLY? WITHIN THE ACTUAL MARRIAGE?
WHY DID THE HOLY GHOST PUT MARY INTO SO MUCH TROUBLE EVEN TO NEARLY
BE STONED?
TO HAVE GOD’S SON BORN?
ARE NOT THESE ENOUGH SIGNS FOR YOU THAT
JESUS WAS NOT OF THE SAME PROCESS OF THE WORLD
THROUGHOUT?
When Jesus Himself declared in
John16:33…..In the world you shall have distress. But have confidence.
I have overcome the world.
Isn’t it enough that statement by Jesus that
HE BROUGHT INTO FUTILE THE ENTIRE PROCESS OF THE WORLD, OF
MAN, WOMAN, SEX, SIN, and DEATH,
TOTALLY ESTABLISHED CURSED ON SIN.
Now read
1Corinthians 1:27 But the foolish things of the world hath God chosen, that he may confound the wise: and
the weak things of the world hath God chosen, that he may confound the strong.
28And the base things of the world and the things that are contemptible, hath God chosen:
and things that are not,
( NOT OF CORRUPTED SATANIC EARTH)
that he might bring to nought things that are:
(THE PROCESS OF SATANIC EARTH)
29That no flesh should glory in his sight.
(NEITHER MAN’S SPERM, NOR WOMAN’S OVUM)
30But of him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom and justice and sanctification and redemption: 31That, as it is written:
He that glorieth may glory in
the Lord. ( TOTALLY DIVINE, NOT INTERMINGLED WITH THE FLESH OF EARTH)
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Thank you Carmel for your contribution. Amen to your post.
To Jodi,
Those who know and have experienced the truth of Titus 3, those “saved by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;” maintain the sinless humanity of Jesus Christ the Messiah, of the seed of a woman, the seed of Abraham and David, Saviour of Jew and Gentile, who fulfilled the promises given to Abraham and David, receiving the sure mercies of David by his resurrection from the Dead.
Such know the Son of man will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has foreordained, that that man was anointed with the Holy Ghost and power and “went about doing good, healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him”, that he always lived to do the Father’s works and speak the Father’s words, to glorify the Father.
But Jesus Christ was not born of Adam’s seed. If he had been he would have been a sinner and subject to death, for all of Adam have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, being enemies to God Bay wicked works (Romans 3,4,5). All die in Adam. No Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit which Carmel has drawn your attention to (Matthew 1:20). A virgin was with child and He is called Emmanuel (Matthew 1:23).
Jesus Christ is the Lamb (not an it or a purpose or a word) was slain from the foundation of the world, preexisted as a person before all creation and created beings including Principalities and powers including angels. In John 1 we see the wonderful contrast between The Word who is God in whom is Eternal Life, which life is the light of everyone who comes into the world through human birth, and is the one who made the world, and coming from heaven into this world to dwell in flesh contrasted with the man sent by God, John Baptist, born by a miracle to a barren woman and an aged couple, through normal conception (as Isaac) but who was full of the Spirit from his mother’s womb. God spoke to Jesus as God as quoted to you last time from Hebrews and the Gospels.
Dear Jodi, I think you have the same problem that the Jews had and which the Apostle Paul speaks about in 2 Corinthians 3. Your mind is blinded, and there is a vail upon your heart which has not been taken away in the reading of the old (and new) testaments. Nevertheless when you turn to the Lord you shall see this vail taken away, for the Lord that is that Spirit will bring you liberty and you will be able with an open face to behold as in a glass the glory of the Lord (in the face of Jesus) and be changed into the same image from glory to glory, by the Spirit of the Lord.
I pray that the eyes of your understanding will be enlightened.
Hi GeneBalthrop,
My post on “emptied himself” was to help you understand what Jesus, who was in the form of God, “emptied himself” of, seeing you seemed to be having difficulty understanding the text. Your post confirms the scripture that “he made himself of no reputation” He never sought his own exaltation but humbled himself as the text says, became a servant, a man and dying on the cross, always in life and death doing what the Father willed, what Father showed him and speaking what the Father told him. “Not my will but thine” said Jesus who always brought glorification to the Father (John 17).
As you rightly point out where it says in Hebrews that He “learnt obedience by the things he suffered”, He did not exercise omniscience (something He emptied himself of) as I posted last time, Jesus not knowing the time of his return. Thankyou for confirming from yet another scripture the point I was making.
Praise God.
Davo…..you completely missed my point, it was that Jesus know he was a human being and was not a God, he could have let those who were there think he was the God that raised up LAZARUS FROM THE DEAD , but it was the FATHER WHO RAISED LAZARUS, Jesus could do “nothing of himself” he himself not only then never had the power to raise the dead himself but he never did nor ever will either, with out God the Father actually doing it for him. Jesus humbled himself not because he was a God “morphed” into a human body, trying to make a show of his humility, but because he was actually a human being, never was any different, both at the time he was on this earth, and even now, he will not ever take the position of being a God, never did and never will either, he is “exactly ” as we are in our relationship with God the Father. He did exactly what scripture tells us to do , “humble yourself befor the mighty hand of God and in due time he shall raise you up”,.
Trying to make Jesus different then we are with God the Father is exactly what SATAN WANT people to do, he is t h e one who created that “DOCTRINE OF SEPERATION “. Because it makes people think they can not attain to the stature and full measure of Jesus Christ. Seening Jesus different then we are, is exactly what Satan and his ministers wants, which is exactly the opposite of the reason God had in mind . He wants us to identify with Jesus as exactly the same as him. Jesus had only one God and it was not himself, not now or ever will be. He is “exactly as we are” in “every” way, there is only “one” God and one mediator between that God and men , “THE MAN” Jesus Christ.
Not the God Jesus
Peach aND love to you and yours……… gene
Hi Carmel,
YOU:
Hi Jodi,
YOU: What a small task for God’s Spirit to take the seed of Joseph, who is of the house of David, and place it within his betrothed wife.
You keep on insisting
PUTTING GOD IN THE SAME BASKET WITH HUMANS!
ME: Carmel, the scriptures directly tell you that to this day Jesus IS a HUMAN BEING. You do not take this simple fact and apply it, you instead fully deny the direct given word of God as to the identity of His Son and our lord and Christ.
You and others deny the direct reason given by God for the virgin birth. God warned not to go after pagan beliefs. Instead of believing in that which God directly gives you, you ignore it and apply exactly that which is PAGAN making Jesus into a demigod.
“But to us there is but ONE God, THE FATHER”
“For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.”
“Jesus saith unto her,Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.”
“For there is ONE God, and one mediator between God and men, the HUMAN Christ Jesus;
Carmel, if your ONE GOD is NOT THE FATHER, and you don’t see JESUS AS A HUMAN WHO IS YOUR BROTHER, you are an idolater, you have neither the Father or His Son abiding in you in truth.
Hi Davo,
YOU:But Jesus Christ was not born of Adam’s seed. If he had been he would have been a sinner and subject to death, for all of Adam have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, being enemies to God Bay wicked works (Romans 3,4,5). All die in Adam. No Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit which Carmel has drawn your attention to (Matthew 1:20). A virgin was with child and He is called Emmanuel (Matthew 1:23).
ME: You deny the purpose for the virgin birth given to you by God’s direct word, and instead you define the purpose according to the doctrine of so called “pagan converts” who thought to make Jesus into the likes of a pagan demigod.
Davo, Jesus was born with weak mortal flesh able to be tempted, and he did DIE, he was most certainly born of Adam’s seed. Good grief Davo, the Messiah to come was to be an ADAM/HUMAN BEING. Of course he was of Adam’s seed, but then he was born again by water and of the Spirit.
He grew as a child with the GRACE OF GOD UPON him, he was baptized and filled with the Spirit, A CALLING TO RIGHTEOUSNESS where God held his hand and kept him from sin so that he could fulfill God’s sworn oath of redemption and salvation, brought through his shed blood and death. God raised him up because he could not be held to the penalty of death, for he had been perfectly obedient. When God raised him up he received the promised Holy Spirit, he was begotten by God on that day, given the Spirit for all eternity. He is still an ADAM/HUMAN BEING, but he represents a SECOND ADAM, unlike the first Adam who did not have the fullness of God’s Spirit, and thus sin was inevitable, Jesus is an ADAM/HUMAN BEING with God ALL IN him, He exists in the image of God, just as God had planned before creation was made.
YES he is called Immanuel, “God with us” AS Jesus does everything IN THE NAME of HIS FATHER, and says he does NOTHING OF HIMSELF.
Davo you and Carmel need to read this passage,
John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also (WHY? because all that Jesus does is not his own works but that of his Father’s): and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him (We know the Father and see the Father by reason of Jesus giving us the Father’s words and doing the Father’s work). 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him,Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father (you are trying to say we are to see Jesus as God, Jesus is trying to tell you that in him we should see the FATHER because all that he is doing is OF the Father, not of himself); and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
Jesus is not Immanuel because he is God come to earth, or else we should believe from the passage above that Jesus wants us to believe that he is his own Father, ABSURD!
Jesus wants us to believe that what he does and what he says are not his words or his works, through Jesus we should know that we are hearing the Father, not him, and that we are seeing the Father’s works, not his.
The Father IS IN Jesus, NOT Jesus is God sent from heaven. The Father’s Spirit is in Jesus so that Jesus can perform the Father’s WILL, TO PREACH, TO HEAL, TO SET US AT LIBERTY. It is all the Father’s WORKS, He is our SAVIOR. We are to see Jesus as an anointed HUMAN who is perfectly obedient to the Father, through the Father being in Him by the full measure of the Father’s Spirit dwelling in him, causing him to walk in all of our Father’s ways.
Davo. ….Jodi is right on, if you don’t see Jesus as a fellow human being, who came into his only true existence exactly as we do, through a human birth process, and his DNA being from the loins or roots of King David, then you simply are not seening the real Jesus yet. Pay paticularly close attention to what Jodi posts, she is presenting the truth written clearly in our Bible texts.
I know this might be hard to do because of all the years of false teachings you may have been exposed to comming from fallen Christanity, but it will yield the fruit of a sound mind in the truth of God, and Jesus Christ our Lord.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Hi Jodi and GeneBalthrop,
This will be my last post to you, but I will be praying for you both that the eyes of your understanding will be enlightened for truly you both have a blindness in the reading of scripture as did Israel in the time of the appearance of Jesus and in the time of preaching of the Apostles and still today for the most part. Your consistent use of the name of God as YHWH evidences your primary theological position which sees only part of the truth. True Jesus is and was a Man but not of the physical seed of Adam (your error). Virgin means just what it says “never knowing a man”. The seed planted in Mary was of the Holy Spirit. Likewise you greatly err in not recognising the divinity of Jesus (the Word/God made flesh).
Despite the plain words of scripture you need to interpret (not by the leading of the Holy Spirit but by human wisdom) all scriptural texts according to your theology and have to make scripture fit into that theology. The Jews also made void the Word of God by their traditions.
The Apostles had a dispensation of the grace of God, given to them for us How that by revelation God made known unto them the mystery, their knowledge in the mystery of Christ, Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it was revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit (Ephesians 3:2-5).
Your theology from the start of scripture fails to understand the revelation GOD has given to mankind. I know you don’t understand because in reading scripture you don’t even understand the plain words of scripture or their ordinary meaning as evidenced by your interpretation of the virgin birth of scripture and John 1.
Also in Genesis it states that ELOHIYM (plural) created the heaven and the earth and that ELOHIYM “said, Let us (plural) make man in our (plural) image, after our (plural) likeness: and let them (plural) have dominion”. Mankind is not one type but Father, Mother and children. While God is one and there is only One God yet scripture clearly teaches that ELOHIYM, the three in heaven (The Father, the Word and the Spirit – 1 John 5:7) have given us a testimony of his Son and “he that believes on the Son Of God has the witness in himself” and “he that has the Son has life; he that has not the Son Of God has not life”. “This is the true God, and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen”
Unfortunately it is not us that have made idols but yourselves. Jesus Christ, the Messiah, is both truly divine and truly human, the TRUTH about GOD and MAN.
I love Jesus and I am so glad that I “know the Truth” and it has set me free and that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit have made me their abode (“Mone” in the Greek meaning mansion i.e. the mansion Jesus spoke of) (John 14:1-4, 16-21, 23). For Jesus went to that “place” (I.e. calvary, the grave and the resurrection and ascension into heaven) so that He could pour the Spirit on me to save me and wash me in regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit which he shed on me abundantly through Jesus Christ my saviour, being justified by grace and made an heir of the hope Of eternal life. Christ in me the hope Of glory.
You too can be his disciples if you will obey the word of Jesus, Son of Man and Son of God, (that Son who abides in the house forever, who had “no beginning of days or end of years”, our great High Priest). You then can know the truth and enjoy the same experience of being one of those many brethren of Jesus, placed into Christ, not by works that you have done, but by grace through faith, and together with Christ enjoy the liberty and newness of life, the good works God has prepared before for you to walk in (Ephesians 2:10) and that are only found in Him alone (Romans 6:3-18).
Farewell to you both, and I earnestly pray you come to the knowledge of the truth.
DAVO…..If EVE came from ADAM, as he said she did, then how is it that you say Jesus was not of Adam? Again I say if you don’t see Jesus as a “son of man” who came into his “only ” existence as a true flesh human , then you simply so not see the “real” Jesus, of scriptures. I know this is disturbingly to you and others here, but the truth non the less. It is not I, nor Jodie’s desire to cause anyone to not believe in GOD the Father, nor Jesus, but to preach the truth in Christ Jesus and God the Father.
It might really help you to make a truthful study of what was taking place at the very beginning of the Church, at the time of the apostles, and see what was infecting the Churches, espically what the teachings of the “GNOSTIC’S ” was . And about the “man” that would take a seat in the “TRUE TEMPLE” of God, and be worshiped as a God. Jesus is the only man who sits in the “TRUE TEMPLE ” of GOD AND IS BEING DESPLAYED AND WORSHIPED AS A GOD. 2THS 2.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Hi Jodi,
YOU: Carmel, the scriptures directly tell you that to this day Jesus IS a HUMAN BEING.
ME: AND WHAT A MAN THOUGH!
GODMAN.
Scripture tells you Jodi that
JESUS IS GODMAN! WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT!
SATAN Jodi took it for granted that unless God, WHO IS PERFECT, and INVISIBLE manifests Himself as a man on earth,
SATAN’S PROPERTY FROM ADAM’ SIN UP TO THIS DAY, THE FACT THAT IT IS MORTAL, HE, SATAN, SELFDELUDED, CONSIDERED HIMSELF THE GOD OF THE WORLD, in full control of its PHYSICAL, VISIBLE and CORRUPTED REPRODUCTIVE PROCESS, TOTALLY
ESTABLISHED CURSED WITH SATAN’S PRESENCE IN
MAN, WOMAN, SEX, SIN, and DEATH! The five WILLS IN Isaiah 14:12-14
UNLESS GOD
MANIFEST PHYSICALLY
OTHERWISE! AND THAT IS
THAT GOD ABIDES IN THE FLESH AND BLOOD BODY OF HUMANS,
CURSED AND SINFUL, like Satan was from Adam sin, BUT
DIVINE,
Simply; as earthly humans were
ALL DEPTED to Satan ONCE ADAM UTILIZED SATAN’S ASSET:
SIN
FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING WHEN IT COMES TO GOD’S WORK, IT IS
HIS SPIRIT WHICH GIVES LIFE TO ALL OF HIS WORK:
THE FACT THAT ADAM SINNED IN THE SPIRIT!
AND THROUGH THE SPIRIT OF GOD
“THE WORD” made FLESH, Jesus, the Son of Man,
ETERNAL LIFE
THE MAN LIVES
OF WHICH GOD IN THE MAN JESUS
MAGNIFICENTLY FULFILLED IN THE GENEALOGY BOTH OF THE SON OF GOD THROUGH ADAM IN SETH AND THE SON OF MAN THROUGH EVE IN CAIN, PRECISELY TOTALLY
SPIRITUAL, HIDDEN AND MYSTERIOUS, PRECISELY IN THE SAME SATANIC
CORRUPTED PHYSICAL VISIBLE PROCESS OF THE WORLD.
Like a treasure hidden in the field Matthew13:44
LIGHT SHINES IN DARKNESS and darkness comprehended NOT! Well asserted in
Genesis 3:15 And I
(MYSELF HIDDEN IN “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man)
will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; …..
Confirmed by Jesu in
John16:33 These things I have spoken to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you shall have distress. But have confidence.
I have overcome the world.
Simply as Jesus ACCOMPLISHED ALL
WITHOUT THE USE IN ANYWAY OF THE WORLD, CONSEQUENTLY
THE WORLD AND THE LAW BECAME
FUTILE.
Confirmed by Jesus in
John 14:30 I will not now speak many things with you. For the prince of this world: cometh:
and in me he hath not anything.
OK Jodi! AS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL:
JESUS and HIS REDEMPTION PROCESS HAD NOTHING
OF THE WORLD, SATANIC!
NOW ONCE ADAM REJECTED GOD’S WILL,
SATAN AS THE GOD OF THE WORLD, 2Corinthians 4:4
took hold of the entire reproductive process of the human race OF FLESH AND BLOOD, Satan’s substance through SIN,
from Eve’s conception till redemption, with the exception of
GOD’S SPECIFIC SPIRITUAL MYSTERIOUS WORK IN RELATION TO THE REDEEMER.
SINCE GOD HAD TO USE HIS SPIRIT ATTRIBUTES ONLY! GOD IS SPIRIT! And Satan considered himself THE FLESH!
The fact that we UP TO THIS DAY, are battling against our own FLESH SUBSTANCE in order to live IN
CHRIST SPIRIT.
THE FACT THAT GOD, SPIRIT, THROUGHOUT THE OT. KEPT ON INCESSANTLY CALLING HIMSELF THAT
HE IS GOD AND THERE ‘S NO OTHER, FOR NO USE! SIMPLY AS
ON EARTH, PHYSICAL, THINGS MUST BE HEARD, SEEN, and HANDLED TO BE CONSIDERED TRUTH. Well pinpointed out in
1John 1 That which was from
THE BEGINNING
which we have heard,
which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and
our hands have handled, of the word of life.
2For the life was manifested: and
we have seen and do bear witness
and declare unto you
the life eternal, which was with
the Father and hath
appeared to us.
3That which we have seen
and have heard,
we declare unto you: that you also may have fellowship with us and our fellowship may be with
the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.
THUS
JESUS IS THE TRUTH,
JESUS IS ETERNAL LIFE,
JESUS AS MAN IN FLESH AND BLOOD,
PERFORMED GOD’S GENUINE WORK,
JESUS IS THE TRUE GOD ON EARTH,
FOR THE SAKE OF GOD THE FATHER, AS
GOD THE FATHER WAS NOT IN THE POSITION TO ACHIEVE MANHOOD,
TO OWN A BODY OF FLESH AND BLOOD ALL BY HIMSELF,
AS FATHER BUT INFUSION AND HARMONY WITH
HIS SON! “THE WORD” THE SON OF MAN
THE FATHER’S SUBSTANCE Hebrews 1:3
BY WHICH SUBSTANCE GOD THE FATHER IS OUR REDEEMER and SAVIOUR WELL PREDICTED IN
Genesis 22: And Abraham said:
God will provide
himself ( ok Jodi, HIMSELF in “THE WORD” Genesis 3:15)
a victim for a holocaust,
MY SON. ( OK Jodi, JESUS THE SON OF GOD, EMBODIED IN ISAAK, BORN OF GOD MYSTERIOUSLY THROUGH GOD’S INTERVENTION WITHOUT THE USE OF SEX)
So they went on together. ( OK JODI, as much as Abraham went with His son to the sacrifice,
GOD THE FATHER AND HIS SON WENT TO GOLGOTHA FOR THE SACRIFICE ON THE CROSS)
Genesis 22:11 And behold, AN ANGEL OF THE LORD from heaven called to him,
saying: Abraham, Abraham. And he answered: Here I am. 12And he said to him: Lay not thy hand upon the boy, neither do thou anything to him: now I know that thou fearest God, and hast not spared thy only begotten son for my sake.
John 8:56 Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day:
he saw it and was glad.
READ: Mattew 11:27 All things ( in relation TO
THE FATHER and GOD of the new world to come Isaia9:6) are delivered to me by my Father. And
no one knoweth
the Son but the Father:
neither doth anyone knows
the Father, but the Son,
and he to whom it shall please
the Son to reveal him. (in his PERSONALITY, PHYSICALLY)
Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels hath he said at any time:
Thou art my (DIVINE) Son, to-day (ON HIS RESURRECTION/GLORIFICATION) have I begotten thee? And again:
I will be to him(HIS SUBSTANCE Hebrews 1:3) a Father, and he shall be to me (THE SOURCE) a Son?
1John5: 19 We know that we are of God and the whole world
is seated in wickedness. (SATANIC)
20And we know that the Son of God is come.
And he hath given us understanding that we may know
THE TRUE GOD (MANIFESTED PHYSICALLY ON EARTH)
and may be in his true Son.
This is the true God and life eternal.
( LORD GOD JESUS CHRIST)
Ephesians 4:I therefore, a prisoner in the Lord,
( JESUS CHRIST) beseech you that you walk worthy of the vocation in which you are called: 2With all humility and mildness, with patience, supporting one another in charity. (LIKE CHRIST DID) 3Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit
(OF CHRIST) in the bond of peace.
4One body and one Spirit: as you are called in one hope of your calling. 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism.
6 One God and Father of all, (JESUS CHRIST) who is above all, and through all,(slain like a lamb from the beginning of the world Rev.13:8) and in us all. (as “THE WORD” talking from within our heart)
7But to every one of us is given grace, according to the measure of the giving of Christ.
8Wherefore he saith: Ascending on high, he led captivity captive: he gave gifts to men.
9Now that he ascended, (ABOVE ALL THE HEAVENS ) what is it, but because
he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10He that descended
( FROM ABOVE ALL THE HEAVENS) is
the same also that ascended above all the heavens: ( John6:62 If then you shall see the Son of man ASCEND UP where he wasBEFORE?)
that he might
fill all things.
(WITH HIS SPIRIT, John 6: 27, Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that which endureth unto life everlasting, which the Son of man will give you. For him hath God, the Father, sealed. (In the entire process of the world)
GENESIS 2:6 But a spring rose out of the earth,
WATERING all the surface of the earth.)
John20:17 Jesus saith to her, do not touch me: for
I am not yet
ascended to ( THE GLORY OF/ the highest state of) my Father:
but go to my brethren, and say to them,(THE ONLY TIME JESUS HIMSELF DECLARED THAT WE ARE HIS BRETHREN)
On His RESURRECTION, embodied in the entire human RACE! for the first-ever time an AUTHENTIC human! ex Satan’s.1Peter 1:3
THE MAN BORN AGAIN John3:3! FROM THE HEART OF THE EARTH Matthew 12:40! As much as Adam was embodied with ALL THE LIVING SOULS Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth:
Then Jesus asserted to Mary and said:
I ascend to
( THE GLORY OF/ the highest state of)
my Father and to your Father, to my God, and to your God.
That same day in the evening Jesus, the Man born again:
MERGED INTO ONE BODY WITH THE HOLY GHOST ALREADY GLORIFIED ON THE CROSS in
JESUS CHRIST
GODMAN and became ONE BODY
OUR LORD GOD AND FATHER JESUS CHRIST
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.
Thus as much as the first adam received the Holy Ghost after He was FORMED FROM THE EARTH! Hereunder:
and breathed (THE HOLY GHOST) into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
Jesus THE MAN BORN AGAIN from the earth, FROM ALL THE DEAD, SPIRITUALLY DEAD IN ADAM, both in hell and on earth,
THE SON OF MAN ORIGINALLY SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD, also received
the HOLY GHOST in JESUS CHRIST
GODMAN ON EARTH. Well manifested in
John20:21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me,( AS A SPIRIT IN ADAM INTO THE WORLD, PRE-EXISTED, )
I also send you ( IN CHRIST MY SPIRIT INTO THE WORD) 22When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them:
Receive ye the Holy Ghost.
Thus the Holy Ghost attributed to
the Son of God
OUR LORD GOD JESUS CHRIST
is in possession of
both with the flesh and blood substance of “THE WORD” made FLESH, THE SON OF MAN DIVINE, the generations of heaven,
IN SETH, THE PURE RANSOM sacrificed
IN EXCHANGE FOR THE HUMAN RACE, and also with
THE FLESH AND BLOOD OF THE SON OF MAN EX SATANIC ON ADAM SIN THE GENTILES. the generations of earth,
IN CAIN 1 Peter2:9-10 “THE WORD” as a spirit originally SLAIN like a lamb ….Rev.13:8
PURIFIED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS ON THE CROSS.
This is well indicated in
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which
THE HOLY GHOST
hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God,
which he hath purchased
WITH HIS OWN BLOOD.
The above is a clear reference to
Jesus Christ the Son of God in the Holy Ghost,
THE DIVINE NATURE OF JESUS glorified in
“THE WORD” Jesus’ flesh on Jesus’death.
THE HUMAN NATURE OF JESUS
ALL IN
JESUS CHRIST
GODMAN and became ONE BODY
OUR LORD GOD AND FATHER JESUS CHRIST
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
GeneBalthrop,
Unfortunately I must post one more post, for you are determined to link Jesus’ human origins to the old man Adam (now trying to do it through deceived Eve) the couple falling short of the glory of God and Adam bringing sin and death into the world through his disobedience. So I must just correct your error(s) before saying farewell.
“Yehovah Elohiym formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul”, thus “The first man is of the earth, earthy”.
The Angel Gabriel said to Mary “behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest”, “The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God, “the second man is the Lord from heaven”. “Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me”. As regards those who are born again “as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly”.
Conception is when a seed and egg combine to quicken into a life form. The Holy Ghost did this in the womb of Mary the Virgin, who gave nurture, succour and birth to that Holy Thing (no sin) called the Son Of God. This second MAN grew in the Spirit and later was anointed to fulfil his calling as declared by prophecies, types and shadows in the OT e.g. Isaiah 61:1, Luke 4:18, Isaiah 53, Psalm 16:10 etc). He in whom “dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily”, “the Word that was with God and was God who was “made made flesh, and dwelt among us”, has spoiled principalities and powers, making a shew of them openly, triumphing over them” in the cross.
“Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels”, “took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham”, “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage”. The great high priest of the order of Melchizedek (without beginning of days or end of years), which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. God “hath made him to be sin for us (the last Adam at the cross), who knew no sin (nor was born of a sinful line); that we might be made the righteousness of God in him”.
This MAN is the true mediator between man and God, THE prophet whose voice must be heard and obeyed, The Joshua/Jesus who brings his people into Rest, God’s King of David’s line to bring man back under God’s Kingship lost when Israel rejected God as King, the MAN appointed as the judge by whom the secrets of all men’s hearts will be judged, the one who is now seated on His Father’s throne with the same glory He had WITH Him before the world began, both MAN and God. All who came before his appearing had flaws, but not this one.
God has made himself know by many names (EL, Elohiym, El Shaddai, Yahweh (YHWH), Jehovah, I AM THAT I AM etc) to display the many attributes of His character. The fullest expression of God is Jesus, the “image of the invisible God”, “the brightness of GOD’S glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels”. He and Father are ONE.
Phrases in scripture talking of “ONE God”, are in contradistinction to the many gods that man makes and worships as they did in Egypt or Canaan, or Ephesus, people changing “the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things”.
But there is only one who is truly God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ. He alone is to be worshipped.
And this ONE God has members (The Father, The Word and The Spirit) just as “the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body”.So has GOD generated through the new second MAN CHRIST, a new mankind in his image and likeness which is one body with “many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body……. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit”.
How wonderfully glorious it all is. Praise God.
At the moment, the Apostle’s Gospel is hid from you because “the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them”. May the Lord reverse this for you.
Farewell.
Davo. ….I am not the one who connects Jesus to Adam, Luke 3:23-38 says it, again you pepple just completely reject the scriptures we directly quote to you, clearly written in your own bibles, why is that? You just act as if what we directly quote is not there, is it not because your false beliefs you have, will not even let you deal with then, like most trinitarians here , you just can’t even consider those scriptures, that I as well a Jodi, quote over and over.
Here another scripture Jesus said, “not me”, let’s see how you deal with it also, remember “Jesus said it, (not me) , ” I AM THE ROOT AND OFFSPRING OF KING DAVID “. when we say that you say we lie, do you also believe Jesus was lying, not to mention all the hundreds of other scripture we “directly quote” from scriptures, you people reject and try to make them out to be false.
Why rant on with what you believe, why not use sound scriptures to back up what you people say, scriptures that are clearly written as Jodi and I do. I have found over many years, the more so-called ““religious” a person is, the more they will not except the simple truth written in our scriptures. If you can’t address the scriptures we quote , but just ignore them and force your unscriptrial ideas on us, we can never come to any deagree of truth . If you are “of the truth”, then you can not neglect those scriptures we directly quote to you, but must deal with them or there can never be any conclusions based on the “truth”. IMO.
Peace and love to you and yous………gene
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