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  • #794681
     dL 
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    Politicians and lawyers love debates..and I’m certain the old Pharisees delighted in their heady theological conflicts, but unfortunately it never brought them any closer to the truth..in fact it just puffed up their egos and set them more securely in their own delusions..

    You obviously enjoy your debates too – your game of twisting peoples words..but I’ve basically said all I came to say..the rest is up to you now..

    The verse I shared is unfortunately a warning against listening to the teachings of people like yourself, to be on guard and to remember that in Christ we can KNOW (have an inner witness).. as to what is true, and what is false..

    Got to go now…
    (P.S. no frustration on my behalf – I gave up trying to change people years ago…what I expressed in our communication was righteous anger…!!!!)
    Adios..

    #794682
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    But here’s the thing. I invited you here to learn something, and not for a debate. But you engaged in a debate which is fair enough if you disagree with the scriptures I teach. But I didn’t ask for one, that is the point. Is this not true? So I responded in the way that I am encouraged to:

    “But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you.”

    #794683
     paul
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    A few pages could be written to fully analyze and answer this Scripture. However, let me say but one thing.

    The son of (the)eagle is an eagle, the son of (the) man is a man, and the son of (the!)God is a god (the capitalization does not matter as much, if only we correctly understand the meaning,… compare with some good translations and, of course, with the original Greek manuscripts).
    It may take some time, though, to properly embrace the idea and allow it to sink in.

    Paul

    #794684
     dL 
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    Completely untrue !!! – you initiated a debate with me (about the trinity) on my friends facebook page..I DID NOT WANT DEBATE – I believe Jude speaks about people like you when he says,”These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.” – Jude 19

    #794685
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    Very sad that you have taken it to this level David.
    If I remember rightly I challenged something he said which is what we do if we love one another and see something wrong. I can’t remember how I invited you here, but I am guessing I put a link to the page in question. I never formally asked for a debate from you or your friend. But you started one after you read my writing. I was hoping that the scriptures would speak for themselves. I was not looking for a fight. I am not under the influence of a fighting spirit.

    Now listen to reason. I do not have a problem debating you, but it is YOU who has said that these kinds of debates are problems. So any challenge I give you about debating is based on your own standard, not mine. You say it is wrong to debate like this and yet you come here and debate me like this. Even your last post is part of the debate. Whereas I don’t have a problem debating people, so long as the truth wins. So even though I never asked for a debate, you gave me one anyway, and then it was you that said that these debates are wrong, and yet you continue to do the very thing you condemn.

    Whereas, I don’t mind debating because it is an opportunity for the truth to win. I don’t debate to win, but to let truth win. If I happen to be on the losing side of truth winning, then I have a golden opportunity to change and become better which is after all what I want. If my view stays unchallenged, then it still doesn’t prove it is true because of that, but it stands the test of that scrutiny.

    I believe however, that I am merely repeating scripture and I believe scripture wins over our own views outside of scripture. The Trinity is a concept that developed hundreds of years after the last book in the Bible was written. If you don’t believe that, then read about it in any encyclopaedia.
    No matter what you say, it remains true that for us (believers) there is one God the Father and one Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. If you want to believe in a creed, why not that? Instead you override it with a doctrine that was rubber stamped by a Roman emperor who history does not record as a good man.

    #794686
     Admin 
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    You said:

    (P.S. no frustration on my behalf – I gave up trying to change people years ago…what I expressed in our communication was righteous anger…!!!!)

    Righteous anger or persecution? People like me in the past have been burned at the stake, hung in the streets, and persecuted for not adhering to the Roman Catholic Faith which is the Trinity Doctrine. Is it righteous anger to kill those who reject the Catholic Faith? No, it is murder. Is it righteous anger to persecute or attack the character of those who reject the Catholic Faith? No, that is hate. Our brother John wrote that a time would come that those that kill you will think they are doing a service to God.

    You are probasbly not aware of this, but many people in history even people you would know about didn’t believe in the Catholic Faith during the Dark Ages, but they kept it quiet knowing that there lives would be in danger if they were found out or if they published their beliefs.

    I am sorry but this whole thing is not of God. It is hateful and murderous.

    I was just watching a video tonight about Sir Isaac Newton the father of physics. He was a zealous bible student and loved prophecy. He loved to read Daniel and the Book of Revelation. He had many ideas about what he was reading but never published them because he knew his life would be in danger.  He just believed that in his time, men had little understanding of scripture and were basically ignorant and superstitious.

    He wrote the following:

    I have learnt What’s to my convenience, which is to let what I write lie by till I am out of the way

    Newton also didn’t believe in the Trinity and just assumed that most were to easily deceived. But denying the Trinity was heretical, and so Newton remained extremely cautious about his views.  His beliefs on the Trinity, and his notes on it were not found until after his death.

    Newton wondered why a metaphysical concept imported from Greek philosophy, a practice of which he was extremely suspicious was taught as truth when there was shaky inference in scripture: He insisted “the true faith was in the text.”

    He blamed both Athanasius and Arius for distorting Scripture when, in the fourth century, they “introduced metaphysical subtleties into their disputes and corrupted the plain language of Scripture.”  Their debate which gave rise to the Trinity Doctrine had more in common with Plato and Aristotle than with Jesus.  Newton asked whether “Christ sent his apostles to preach metaphysics to the unlearned people, and to their wives and children?”

    Newton also said that the two main scriptural proof texts for the Trinity were corrupted by supporters of the doctrine.  In a letter to John Locke called “Two Notable Corruptions of Scripture”, he outlines how 1 John 5:7 and 1 Timothy 3:16 may have been altered.  And guess what, he was absolutely correct. Later on when older texts were discovered and in 1948 when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, they proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that these 2 proof texts were indeed corruptions.

    David, instead of acting like a superstitious person from the Dark Ages, you need to read what the texts are saying and not what the doctrines of men dictate to you. If you love Jesus. then follow him. He is the truth and he spoke truth. If you believe him, then believe in what he said.

    “This is eternal life, that you many know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.

    #794687
     Admin 
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    You will notice that some of the comments in this site are from people who attack what I teach. This has always been the case though. The history of religious persecution has led many people who disagreed with the Roman Catholic Faith to be persecuted, imprisoned, burned at the stake, and hung in the streets. Because of this, many people in history did not voice their beliefs publicly, and this helped solidify the root of the Roman Catholic Faith to become the supposed foundation of true faith. But it is not. The Catholic faith is the Trinity Doctrine and to this day, men are too scared to question it, even though death does not face them anymore. Many Christians today are still under her influence. But we do better to read the texts for ourselves and not twist them toward the creeds of men. This is the main vision and mission for this website. To allow men to question all that they have been taught to see if it is written in scripture. Nothing is too sacred to question and I encourage all to search the scriptures and test the teachings.

    Seek and you will find. This is a promise from Jesus our Lord. Never be afraid to question, and ignore the bullies that persecute you for doing so.

    #794688
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    paul

    The son of Adam is a man right.

    And adam is the Hebrew word for man right.

    So Adam was adam right.

    And Eve was adam right.

    Because God made man/adam male and female right.

    Therefore Eve is adam, but she is not Adam.

    The difference is that one is lower sentence case and the other captilised.

    In Greek and Hewbrew there are not capital letters. In Greek the definite article (THE) is used where in English we capitialised. e.g., In Greek you say ‘the jesus’ and in English we say ‘Jesus.’

    Therefore if the son or daughter of Adam is adam (in kind) then the son of God is god/theos in kind too.

    But God/THE theos is not exactly the same as god/theos.

    I hope this helps.

    #794689
     paul
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    To t8 … thanks for taking the time to read and respond … even to complete strangers.
    Adam … a ‘man right’? I will have to think what that means and what its Scriptural implications may be, if any …

    Admittedly, there are scriptural passages (and John 1:1 is one of them)that took me hours upon hours of careful, intense, linguistic, contextual, ‘scientific’, and spiritual study stretching over months and years before the light came /based on prayers and the Grace of the Giver rather than my own wisdom or knowledge, to be sure/. And with some verses I am still waiting for an understanding (e.g., Rev. 13:18 /why compute the No of the beast when it is given right there? and Rev 17:9 suddenly came up only recently to point in the right direction). And yes, one of the most difficult ones, one that I really was very anxious to understand, did not reached me until after more than 20 years and only thanks to the Light from above during recent prolonged prayers and meditations on it. Praise God that I lived to see it and receive it.
    And yes, many of us will in vain try and keep trying to get the correct overall insight and understanding, all who do not receive the Spirit of Truth. Alas. And all the arduous debates may produce very little with such. However, with steadfast prayer, patience, study and humble asking (even fasting with some of us), everyone can make a headway. Such is our spiritual journey. Not easy at all.

    Nonetheless, this is a good and promising website. One of the very few with substance.

    Paul

    #794690
     Admin 
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    Good stuff Paul. Keep seeking and never give up. It is a form of worship to dig for the deep truths. It shows that you love the character of God and his son when we seek truth with all our hearts.

    #794691
     dL 
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    To Paul – a word of caution concerning this site..all is not what it first seems..

    much of what is being presented here as “Scriptural truth” is quite misleading and really nothing more than the uninspired speculations of the carnal mind (1 Corinthians 2:14)..taking one away from the “revelation” of God’s Word (our reliance on the Spirit), to the dead bones of theological analysis (leaning to our own understanding)..

    I believe the warning of Jesus in Matthew 7:6 is quite relevant here – hold onto those valuable revelations with care otherwise they may just get trampled into the mud of theological debate by those who are more concerned with arguments than truth..

    #794692
     dL 
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    BEWARE – this is a site where Unitarian belief is taught (like the JW’s), and the truth of John 1:1 is deceitfully changed to support this corrupted doctrine..

    #794693
     dL 
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    Old Proverb – “It is better to be slapped with the truth, than kissed with a lie.”

    #794694
     dL 
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    To t8 – a word of WARNING..
    “Every word of God is pure: He is a shield unto them that put their trust in Him. Add not unto His words, lest He reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” – Proverbs 30:5,6

    #794695
     dL 
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    If we have received “the love of the truth”..then there will be times when we must contend earnestly against corrupted doctrines and deceitful teachings of carnal minded men – this is one of those times… where the true faith handed down to us is being tampered with and distorted..

    I know t8 decries my rebukes as “persecution” and tries and add this to himself as some badge of honor..(that vainly places him among the congregation of saints and true prophets) – yet, sadly, such delusions could not be further from reality..

    #794696
     Admin 
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    “Every word of God is pure: He is a shield unto them that put their trust in Him. Add not unto His words, lest He reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” – Proverbs 30:5,6

    Amen.

    Jesus said, “This is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.

    Every word that is uttered under the inspiration of God is true.

    #794697
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    If you agree with your words, then you won’t mind being slapped in the face with this great truth.

    1 Corinthians 15:24-28 (English-NIV)
    24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
    25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
    26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
    27 For he has put everything under his feet. Now when it says that everything has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
    28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

    Now for the slap. Jesus is not God. Rather, God put everything under Christ in order that the son will be subject to him so that God can dwell in all.

    Does this agitate you or do you rejoice. I hope the latter because it is God’s plan and his son is central to this plan.

    #794698
     Admin 
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    David L said:

    Old Proverb – “It is better to be slapped with the truth, than kissed with a lie.”

    Biblical Proverb.
    He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

    Reminds me of this saying:
    “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance – that principle is condemnation prior to investigation.”

    David, you have not investigated the scriptures I gave you. You read them and then ignore them. No forthcoming answer from you. It is this that keeps a man’s mind darkened and it is a shame unto him if all he does is condemn.

    How about refuting the scriptures I gave you, and if you say you agree with them, then demonstrate how they prove the Trinity, or at least prove how they do not contradict it.

    But if all you can do is condemn, then that is a shame for you and has no bearing on me.

    #794699
     Admin 
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    True that Silvans. For us, there is one God the Father, and one Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. Of course believing this is not enough. We need to know God and the one whom he made Lord.

    #794700
     Admin 
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    “A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.”
    -Dresden James

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