What is your confession regarding Jesus

This topic has 858 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 10 months ago by Proclaimer.

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Posts
October 17, 2013 at 9:34 pm#776977
DavidL
Participant
well, I am happy to let others discern between what we are saying..
October 17, 2013 at 10:06 pm#776978
Becky
Participant
God gave me a brain for a reason. And with that brain I fully intend to test all spirits to make sure they come from God. If that is logic then I thank God that he gave it to me. Since we have our brains shouldn’t we then look as close as we can at the few things in the bible that might come not as straight forward. Since one of the gods in John 1:1 is accusative and one is nominative it makes person think.
October 17, 2013 at 10:06 pm#776979
Admin
Keymaster
When you make statements that are incorrect, I will refute them with scripture and make no apology. I am not defending the NWT because all translations have their problems, some more than others. To me, defending a translation is not nearly as important as defending the truth. People do not get saved or further their spiritual understanding of things by defending the efforts of men. Of course translations are an important resource for us to understand scripture, but that is all they are.
October 17, 2013 at 10:11 pm#776980
Admin
Keymaster
Discussing our personal relationship with God and defending the truth in scripture are two different things. Ideally, we have both. They do not mutually exclude each other.

Yes I still hear from God and have some powerful visions since.

Even prophecies that have come true. And they have everything to do with what I am doing now.

God will bless those who seek the truth. We are promised that if we seek we will find and that the truth sets us free.
October 17, 2013 at 10:27 pm#776981
Admin
Keymaster
You are wrong DavidL. It doesn’t.

Further, the rest of scripture teaches that the true God is the Father, and Jesus is the one who the true God made Lord and Christ.

It is clear for all to see, that your interpretation of John 1:1 negates the rest of the Bible with regards to who the one true God is. You are clearly confused and demonstrate this publicly.

And you haven’t even attempted to show us how Jesus can be God, the son of God, made Lord by God, and who acknowledges that the Father is greater than him and who sits at the right hand of the only true God. In other words even now, he is WITH God, just as the Word was with God.

If you were with God DavidL, then could you also be God?

You are trying to sell me confusion. I will not buy the wares of Babel and Babylon. Instead I will buy the truth that is gold. Not interested in counterfeits. There is one God the Father. It is not even a debate. Unless you want to debate Paul, which you are doing.
October 17, 2013 at 10:35 pm#776982
2besee
Participant
Mike,
You seem to be misunderstanding what is meant by the reading of books, it has nothing to do with the scriptures. God reveals things to us by the scriptures, but we do not rely on our own understanding. We do not rely on men. We trust in him, we trust in God, and God will show us all things.
“First of all you must understand
this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved
by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”
“But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak.”
“This is the one who came by water and blood-Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the
truth.”
“For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.”
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me;
and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish,
and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all,
and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
I and the Father are one.”
October 17, 2013 at 11:12 pm#776983
Becky
Participant
Wondering,
My father, who has given them to me, is greater than all
Ok now take the appositive out and it say My father is greater than all. Wouldn’t that include Jesus.
I and the father are one.
I and my husband are one. But I am not my husband and my husband is not me.
October 18, 2013 at 3:28 am#776984
Becky
Participant
I mean greater than Jesus.
October 18, 2013 at 6:02 am#776985
2besee
Participant
.Becky,
Yes I agree.
I’m a spirit christologist.
I don’t believe the son of man was God, but man.
The Holy Spirit and God are one though.
October 18, 2013 at 6:08 am#776986
2besee
Participant
Becky,
Addendum:
God through the eternal spirit spoke through the mouth of the son of man and worked through his body, so in this way they were as one, the son of God.
That is the way I see, though I am only learning.
October 18, 2013 at 1:58 pm#776987
Becky
Participant
Wondering,
Sorry my bad. I did try looking up christology but couldn’t get any info on what was believe since there seem to be different types or maybe it is just broken into two parts. As for the Holy Spirit not sure if I want to or even how to define it. All I know is what I have read in the bible so far and that is it is gods spirit or active force. It is obviously an extension of of god but I don’t know if I would say the Holy Spirit is god. On that I probably need to take a closer look at the scriptures. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
October 18, 2013 at 7:30 pm#776988
DavidL
Participant
when I talk of ‘logic’ I am wanting to make a distinction between head knowledge and heart understanding…sure God has given us a brain but human understanding alone cannot comprehend the things of God..(1 Corinthians 2:14)
–
When Jesus said to Nicodemus, “You must be born again..” I believe He was highlighting to this teacher in Israel the inability of man to comprehend the truth of God merely on the strength of his own intellectual and logical abilities…something MORE was needed..!!
–
Again, consider the life of Paul, who before his encounter and conversion on the Damascus road, was highly educated in the doctrine of Scripture – a Pharisee of Pharisees who in his heart thought he was righteously upholding the law of God, when in reality he was opposing and persecuting the very God he claimed to serve and follow..
–
Michael Wells (a Christian author) said, “The church is cluttered with shipwrecked scholars who thought the Bible was for understanding and did not recognize it was written to give life.”
–
I believe that Theology itself opposes the Truth, the same way the Pharisees and doctors of the law opposed Christ – we ARE meant to have understanding…but it is HEART understanding that brings TRUE life and TRUE light..
–
as disciples of Christ we are to gain our understanding not through intellectual pursuit, but from listening to the voice of the Spirit – revelation comes to us when we read Scripture with a listening heart…and this is in stark contrast and opposition to the teachings and logical thoughts of ‘man’.
October 18, 2013 at 8:22 pm#776989
DavidL
Participant
The true Church is NOT established on the doctrines and intellectual teachings of ‘man’ – Jesus said, “on this rock *I* will build My church…!!! The foundation of truth is established solely on the unshakable rock of divine revelation – the revelation of Jesus Christ, as revealed in the Word of God, by the Father, through the Holy Spirit.
October 18, 2013 at 8:23 pm#776990
DavidL
Participant
“..the Word was with God…the Word was God.” – does this simple revelation of Jesus really contradict the rest of Scripture..(like t8 would have us believe)..???
–
Let’s see – “Then God said, ‘Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness..'” (Genesis 1:26)..
Funny, if God is Triune, and we are made in His image – wouldn’t it make sense that we would be triune too (Body, Soul, and Spirit)..!!!
–
“For in Christ dwells ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily.” (Colossians 2:9)
–
Jesus told them, “Truly, I tell all of you emphatically, before there was an Abraham, I AM!” – John 8:58
–
Jesus speaking, “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” – Revelation 1:8
–
It’s truly amazing how spiritually blind man’s Theology is, and will try to make us too – IF WE LET IT..!!
October 18, 2013 at 8:33 pm#776991
DavidL
Participant
“..the Word was with God…and the Word was God.” – is this somehow my own ‘interpretation’ rather than simply what the Bible itself says in black and white..and does it really negate the rest of Scripture..(like t8 would have us believe)..???
–
Let’s see – “Then God said, ‘Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness..’” (Genesis 1:26)..
Funny, if God is Triune, and we are made in His image – wouldn’t it make sense that we would be triune too (Body, Soul, and Spirit)..!!!
–
“For in Christ dwells ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily.” (Colossians 2:9)
–
Jesus told them, “Truly, I tell all of you emphatically, before there was an Abraham, I AM!” – John 8:58
–
Jesus speaking, “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” – Revelation 1:8
–
It’s truly amazing how spiritually blind the teaching of man is, and will try to make us too – IF WE LET IT..!!
October 18, 2013 at 8:54 pm#776992
2besee
Participant
Becky, sorry, I’ve been too tired to post the last couple days, and my two posts were made with a tired mind. So when I’m more alert, I’ll post more.
October 18, 2013 at 9:09 pm#776993
DavidL
Participant
The Scriptures you offer as proof against the Trinity ARE actually verses that help us to understand the Trinity..!!! unfortunately this is how blind human logic is with regard to spiritual understanding..
–
Paul uses the example of marriage – how the man is head of the wife, to show that Christ is Head of the Church, and God the Head of Christ…but what you fail to take into account is the fact that even though the husband is head over the wife, Scripture tells us that, within the covenant of marriage, the TWO (husband and wife) become ONE..!!!
–
Please remember that when you point out Scriptures that show God and Christ in their different roles…IT DOES NOT NEGATE OR CHANGE THE DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY IN ANY WAY…!!! rather it just reveals that your understanding of God has not been enlightened by the Holy Spirit.
October 19, 2013 at 1:28 am#776994
2besee
Participant
Becky,
My thoughts for today:
I really do not believe that any man should be a teacher to a called out person.
Why I say “called out person” is because I think there is a place for teachers, and that is with the foundation.
So, we have Sunday school teachers, teaching children, or people teaching the new seekers to truth, and that is good.
But then, one day God may call some of them to his own guidance and leading, and the Holy Spirit should be that persons teacher( Do you see what I mean?)
I think the moment one does things such as spend their time on forums trying to lead those who have been called, trying to lead them into their own doctrine, then that man or woman is possibly attempting to take the place of the Holy Spirit!
And you can see it by it’s fruit.
On forums, what are it’s fruit? Debating, arguments, judging, jealousy, one-upmanship… Sin. Division. Bitterness. Boasting. And from what I have witnessed, lost faith.
I believe that someone who is called has no need for mans doctrines, no need for a church (building) today, though once upon a time, it was okay, no doubt.
Sorry..
as for my belief, I only have the basics, and have not been shown more. Anything I add to it is – I believe, only my own mind. And I do not want to teach you, or anyone. But if the foundational teachings have been faulty, then maybe it could help someone, I don’t know.
So the basics:
I asked who Jesus was and I heard “The Holy Spirit”.
Some time after my Trinitarian Dad was giving me a sermon (as he does!), and through all of his sermon, one thing really stuck out to me. When asked who Jesus was, he said that Jesus was the “eternal spirit”. I don’t even know if he realized what he said : because I don’t think that is a typical reply for a Trinitarian?
I was shown these verses by God over some days..
Hebrews 9:14 ESV
How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit
offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.
Corinthians 2:11 ESV
For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God
except the Spirit of God.
Matthew 11:27 ESV
No one knows the Son except the
Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
That is my basics.
I found more verses, and one thing led to another, but I think I’ve gone off track a bit, because I started reading other things, and talking to people on forums.
I encourage you, though, Becky, to take your time – and only seek God’s truth, not man.
Also, make sure you have a good translation. RSV is a good one. I say that because a good elderly man gave us an RSV years ago, and I believe it was supposed to be.
October 19, 2013 at 2:43 am#776995
Becky
Participant
Wondering,
I have to disagree that people should not teach. 2 Timothy 3:16 states: All scripture is breathed out by God and probitiable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training righteousness. I do not claim to be a teacher nor do I know if I will ever be. I come to forums to try to get an understanding of why people believe what they do and hope that they share scriptures to support that belief. Then I enjoy looking up those scriptures to see if I get the same understanding.
October 19, 2013 at 10:10 am#776996
2besee
Participant
Becky,
Children need teaching.
“Direct your children onto the right path, and when they are older, they will not leave it.”
Adults led by the spirit do not.
1 John 2:27 “As for you, the anointing which you received from him remains in you, and you do not need for anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is no lie, and even as it taught you, you will remain in him.”
People think they gain all truth from studying scriptures, but they do not.
Truth is found when we GO TO GOD.
We need to connect with God in Spirit, alone on our knees.
When we do, if we listen to him, we can hear. We do not hear him with our ears, we hear him ‘within and above us’, and he alone will guide you.
The letter (Mike) kills – it is the spirit that gives life (2 Corinthians 3:6)
John 5:39 “You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me; yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. I do not receive glory from men”
As for forums : They are too full of those “teachers” – and they all teach different things, and errors.
“Babylon”.
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