Is Jesus the Logos?

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November 10, 2023 at 3:45 pm#945537
Jodi
Participant
Hi Berean,
First off, thanks for continuing the debate!
You are confused by my last post it seems though, with the point I was trying to make. It’s about how one interprets a passage through who they already believe Jesus to be and if it is a passage where Jesus says “I”, then they are interpreting it through who they believe Jesus believes himself to be.
You said, “I don’t say that”, come again? You have not told me that Jesus is a God existing from the beginning?
You just in your last post said as much! You said, “The Son of God was God in the BIGINNING…”
Let me try again. I am most certainly not rewriting anything, go read one of Carmel’s post for that.
When Jesus says “with the glory I had”, I am merely pointing out who it is that you identify the “I” as, which is a God who existed from the beginning, as that is who you believe Jesus knows himself to be.
When Jesus says, “with the glory I had”, I am merely pointing out who it is that I identify the “I” as, which is the promised Son of Man and the promised Son of God, as that is who I believe Jesus knows himself to be.
You are trying to prove that John 17:5 teaches that Jesus pre-existed, but your position is circular as you first must assert that he who is speaking identifies himself as pre-existing. You also at the same time have to deny the biblical fact that Jesus did indeed identify himself clearly as the promised Son of Man to whom God had promised He would be a Father to. You then also have to pretend to forget that Jesus preached that the Son of Man was to receive glory and then you must further pretend that such glory had not been with YHVH for this man before the world was. Oh but we can go even further, you then deny that the Son of Man in his resurrected flesh and bones body did in fact enter into the very glory that had been with YHVH for this man before the world was. Okay, maybe you don’t deny all of this you just don’t apply it where it is directly meant to be applied to, which I cannot honestly say that the later is better than the former. Jesus asked for something in John 17:5 and he confirmed that he had received it in Luke 24:26.
November 10, 2023 at 9:33 pm#945538
Berean
Participant
Jodi
You must learn to differentiate between: BEING (THE)GOD AND FATHER
AND THE SON OF GOD THE FATHER WHO IS GOD (IN ESSENCE)
We are human because our parents are human
THUS IN THE BIGINNING THE SON OF GOD WAS GOD(DIVINE, GOD IN ESSENCE..)
BECAUSE HE CAME OUT OF HIM (GOD THE FATHER) IN THE DAYS OF ETERNITY. (Micah 5:2)
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that👉 I came out from God.
28] 👉I came forth from the Father, 👈
👉and am come into the world: 👈👉again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.👈
John 16
🙏
November 11, 2023 at 4:30 am#945539
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Berean, please tell us what the difference of Being someone, and the “essence” of someone means.   I know it is a false Catholic “trinitarian” teaching.
Jodi and I and Nick, have posted scripture after scripture to you over and over and you just hold on to your false teachings, are you so “indoctrinated” in the doctrines of you “Church” , you can’t even think for yourself anymore? The word “essence”. isn’t even in the Bible, if it is I have never seen it there, as far as I can recall.
peace and love to you and yours………gene

November 11, 2023 at 12:58 pm#945540
carmel
Participant
Hi Jodi,
You: Does Jesus identify himself as the Son of God by the works of God that he is able to do because the Spirit of God abodes in him?
Yes indeed, such is what we read Jesus proclaiming of himself throughout the gospels.
Me: No Jodi, that is your corrupted mentality!
JESUS IDENTIFIED HIMSELF AS THE SON OF GOD FROM THE AGE OF TWELVE!
Read please:
Luke 2:48 And seeing him, they wondered. And his mother said to him: Son, why hast thou done so to us? behold thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. 49And he said to them:
How is it that you sought me?
did you not know, that I must be about my father’s business?
50And they understood not the word that he spoke unto them.
Jodi, do you deny the above scripture?
Yes or know, please!
Now to the next one:
Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to the Jordan, unto John, to be baptized by him.
14 But John stayed him, saying:
I ought to be baptized by thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering, said to him:
Suffer it to be so now.
For so it becometh us to fulfill all justice.
Then he suffered him.
Jodi, FROM THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE,
DID JOHN KNOW THAT JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD?
DEFINITELY YES!
DID JESUS IDENTIFY HIMSELF THE SON OF GOD?
DEFINITELY YES!
NOW IT IS YOUR TURN TO PROVE OTHERWISE AND DENY!

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

November 12, 2023 at 4:32 am#945541
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Carmel……..So at what age are we also the Sons of God? Seeking Jesus called us all sons of Gd n scripture over and over, remember? , our “father”who art in heaven”, and again ” how much more will your “father”who is in heaven give them of the spirit that ask”, and agin, “your “father”who is in heaven know you have need of these things” and again “
Matt 5:16, Matt 5:45 Matt 5:48, Matt 6: 14, Matt 6 :15, Matt:6:26, Matt 6: 32, ,Matt 7:11, Matt 10:20, Matt 10:29, Matt 15:6, Matt 18:14, Matt 18:35, Matt 23:9, that’s just 14 times in one book out of 32 times, that say we “are the sons of God”.
So tell us, how does saying Jesus is a son of God, make him any different the we are, in our “relationship”, to God the Father?
Satan’s ministers want us all to believe Jesus is different the the rest of his human brothers and sisters, that was his whole idea in turning the “man” Jesus into a God , it was to separate Jesus from the rest of his brothers and sisters, seems you and the rest of false “Christianity” do the same thing, follow Satan’s “doctrine of separation”
peace and love to you and yours……..gene

November 12, 2023 at 5:09 am#945542
Berean
Participant
Gene
You
Berean, please tell us what the difference of Being someone, and the “essence” of someone means.   I know it is a false Catholic “trinitarian” teaching……

Me
The Word “person” or “essence”
I recognize that it is not a very common word in the Bible but it exists.
Hebrew 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of 👉his person👈, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high
person
👇
5287
upostasiV
hupostasis
upostasei
2 Cor 9:4, 2 Cor 11:17
upostasewV
👉Heb 1:3, Heb 3:14
upostasiV
Heb 11:1
from a compound of upo – hupo 5259 and isthmi – histemi 2476; a setting under (support), i.e. (figuratively) concretely, essence👈, or abstractly, assurance (objectively or subjectively):–confidence, confident,
👉 person, substance.👈
🙏
November 12, 2023 at 10:16 am#945543
carmel
Participant
Hi gene,
You: Carmel……..So at what age are we also the Sons of God?
ME: It all depends on how and WHEN you receive your first love!
You: So tell us, how does saying Jesus is a son of God, make him any different the we are, in our “relationship”, to God the Father?
First and foremost:
Jesus is not a son of God But
THE SON OF GOD UNIQUE!
FOR HUMANITY, NO JESUS NO GOD THE FATHER!
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers:
all things were created by him and in him.
17And he is before all,
and by him all things consist.
18And he is the head of the body, the church,
who is the beginning,
the firstborn from the dead;
that in all things he may hold the primacy:
19Because in him, it hath well pleased the Father,
that all fullness should dwell;
20 And THROUGH HIM to reconcile all things unto himself,
making peace through the blood of his cross, both as to the things that are on earth, and the things that are in heaven.
21And you, whereas you were some time alienated and
enemies in mind in evil works:
22Yet now he hath reconciled in the body of his flesh through death,
ATTENTION Gene! Here it comes the DIFFERENCE!
to present you holy and unspotted, and blameless before HIM:
NOW READ HEREUNDER:
John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you.
As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abide in the vine,
so neither can you,
unless you abide in me.
OUR FIRST LOVE FOR THE SAKE OF THE FATHER!
5I am the vine; you the branches:
he that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit:
for without me you can do nothing.
CAN YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE:
MR SON OF GOD?
Now read hereunder:
John 1:12 But as many as received him,
HE gave them the power to be made the sons of God,
MORE DIFFERENCE Gene, answer please:
WHO GAVE HUMANITY THE POWER TO BE MADE THE SONS OF GOD?
Attention now Gene:
to them that believe in
HIS NAME.
THE NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES GOD THE FATHER GAVE HIM!
YAHWEH!
ANSWER Gene!
WILL EVER GOD THE FATHER GIVE TO ANY HUMAN BEING A NAME LIKE HE GAVE TO HIS UNIQUE SON JESUS?
YES OR NO PLEASE!
MORE DIFFERENCE:
Cont. John 1:13Who are born, not of blood,
LIKE THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE!
nor of the will of the flesh,
LIKE THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE!
nor of the will of man,
LIKE THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE!
but of God. JESUS

Peace and love in Jesus Christ
November 13, 2023 at 4:21 am#945544
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Berean and Carmel…….The conclusion of what both of you say is completely unscriptural and not at all inline with our scriptures, Carmel, Jesus was indeed “uniquely ” born , but none the less, a human being, exactly as we are, with our exception. I showed you clearly how Jesus said we are also sons of God, he also said we must overcome “exactly as he did”, Just as it is written, “he that overcomes, I will grant to sit with me in my kingdom, “JUST AS I HAVE OVERCAME”, and sit in my Fathers kingdom”.
Berean there is no such word as “essence” even written in our scriptures anywhere. You are simply adhering to the false Catholic teaching of the “trinity”. , where the pagan Emperor Constantine made up the “false” Doctrine of Jesus being “homousious”, With God . A doctrine designed by a pagan emperor under the influence of Satan to deceive “Christianity’’ into believing Jesus was different than the rest of humanity, in his existence. This “Doctrine of Separation” was a teaching directly from Satan himself> It turns Jesus from a normal human being, like the rest of us , into a God, and causes people to commit “IDOLATRY ” and that is exactly what SATAN wants them to do, and they even worship Jesus as a God, and even preach him as such. 2Ths 2. Jesus will reject all who do that at his return, and as a result of him rejecting the Churches that preach that, which is nearly all of them, the churches will turn against him and call him, the “ANTICHRIST” , a man “you people” falsely preach, that will come before Jesus, the churches are already “predisposed ” to do that, by the preaching of the false doctrine of “the Antichrist’. When Jesus rejects them they will reject Jesus and call him the Antichrist. Why because they expect a God to return, not a human being, so seeing him as a human being and not a God that they falsely preach, but a “man of God” who rejects them and their false teachings, they will turn on him calling him the “ANTICHRIST”.
peace and love to you both and yours………..gene
November 13, 2023 at 4:57 am#945545
Berean
Participant
Gene
You unfortunately did not understand what Hebrew 1:3 says
Who being the brightness of his glory, and 👉the express image of his person,👈
The word translated here as person, can also be translated as “essence”, or “substance”
🙏
November 13, 2023 at 6:05 am#945546
Jodi
Participant
Hi Berean,
I have given you scripture that directly proves to you that Jesus was NOT the WORKER, that it was indeed YHVH our Father who was both the architect and the WORKER, where YHVH our Father had then rested from HIS WORK on the 7th day.
Our heavenly Father’s hallowed name is YHVH and there is one YHVH.
Deuteronomy 6: 4 `Hear, O Israel, YHVH our God is one YHVH; 5 and thou hast loved YHVH thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might,…13 YHVH thy God thou dost fear, and Him thou dost serve, and by His name thou dost swear;
As said, YHVH our God is ONE YHVH.
How are you going to try and twist this clear basic truth Berean? Jesus is a SERVANT to YHVH our God who is one YHVH. YHVH our heavenly Father formed man and breathed into his nostrils making him into a living soul. When He did that He knew of another man to come who would fulfill all His will for creating heaven and earth in the first place, for YHVH to become ALL IN ALL.
Genesis 2:7 And YHVH God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God YHVH, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I YHVH have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am YHVH: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Jesus asked us to pray, ” Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Our heavenly Father’s name is YHVH and there is the ONLY YHVH and He stretched out and spread forth the earth and that which cometh out of it ALONE, including the people, who He made male and female just as Jesus said.
YHVH elected one from among the people, ONLY him would YHVH give a certain GLORY to, ONLY this man was chosen to fulfill YHVH’s covenant and be for a light unto the world. ONLY this man was called to righteousness, ONLY this man was born of the Spirit without measure filled with grace and truth and then was sent out into the world where people beheld his GLORY. YHVH gave this man a name above all other names, JESUS.
YHVH made his WORD given to the prophet Isaiah true in the flesh of Jesus of Nazareth and the people beheld his glory.
Berean, go read through the gospels,
the SENDING is always in relation to Jesus quoting Isaiah 61
Jesus’s glory that the people beheld is always in relation to him having been born of the Spirit at the river Jordan
Jesus’s proof that he was indeed a Son is ALWAYS in relation to YHVH’s Spirit being in him and him being LED BY the Spirit, LED by YHVH to do YHVH’s works.
Berean, DIA does in fact mean BY REASON OF.
Berean, you would do far better if you read scripture keeping in mind the below verse and believing that truly it is a Son of Man who was settled into YHVH’s House and His kingdom forever and was exalted to His right hand all according to a promise YHVH made before the world was.
Acts 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Berean, Jesus was born of the Spirit not by measure, called to righteousness and he was elected from among the people to be the only man to bring forth the gift of grace. The Spirit upon him bears the fruit of all goodness, righteousness and truth. That Spirit in him as attested to the gospels bore witness to his Spirit that he was a Son of God.
All you do is make Jesus into a false image.
November 13, 2023 at 9:56 am#945547
Berean
Participant
Jodi
Why will I answer differently from other times?
God the Father is the source of all LIFE, even that of his only BEGOTTEN Son “in the days of eternity” (Micah 5:2)
When God does something for the Glory of His name, whatever means He uses, The glory comes to Him. Whether it is the creation of the world, the redemption of the world, and the JUDGMENT OF THE WORLD, THE GLORY GOES TO HIM FIRST, AND ALSO SECONDLY TO HIS BEGOTTEN SON.
Révélation 5
[1] And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
[2] And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
[3] And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, nor to look thereon.
[4] And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
[5] And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
[6] And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
[7] And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
[8] And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odors, which are the prayers of saints.
[9] And they sing a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
[10] And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
[11] And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and millions of thousands;
[12] Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is 👉the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing.
[13] And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power , be unto 👉him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb👈 for ever and ever.👈
[14] And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and 👉 worshiped him 👈that lived for ever and ever.
🙏
November 13, 2023 at 7:40 pm#945548
carmel
Participant
Gene,
You: exactly as he did”, Just as it is written, “he that overcomes,
I will grant to sit with me in my kingdom,
“JUST AS I HAVE OVERCAME”, and sit in my Fathers kingdom”.
Me: Gene,
You produced a scripture that reveals how immature YOU are regarding, both
THE KINGDOM OF GOD, and
THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.
BOTH THE KINGDOM OF THE FATHER, and
HE KINGDOM OF THE SON JESUS!

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

November 13, 2023 at 8:07 pm#945549
carmel
Participant
Hi Gene,,
You: It turns Jesus from a normal human being,
Answer Gene, please:
CAN A NORMAL HUMAN BEING EXIST IN THIS WORLD WITHOUT
THE SEXUAL REPRODUCTIVE ACT BETWEEN
THE SPERM OF THE MAN AND THE OVUM OF THE WOMAN,
FROM CAIN ONWARD?
YES OR NO PLEASE!

Peace and love in Jesus Christ
November 13, 2023 at 9:16 pm#945550
carmel
Participant
Hi Jodi,
You: I have given you scripture that directly proves to you that Jesus was NOT the WORKER, that it was indeed YHVH our Father….

Me: Jodi the above is KID’S STUFF!
CAN YOU INSERT A NAIL INTO ANYTHING, WITHOUT THE USE OF A HAMMER OR SOMETHING SIMILAR, USING ONLY YOUR HAND?
YES OR NO PLEASE!
NOW IF YOU USE A HAMMER OR SOMETHING SIMILAR, DOES THAT MEAN THAT
YOU DID THE WORK
ALL BY YOURSELF?
YES OR NO PLEASE!
OR WITH THE HELP
OF ANOTHER PARTICULAR TOOL?
Now let’s read Genesis 2:18 And the Lord God said:
It is not good for man to be ALONE:
let us make HIM a HELP like unto HIMSELF.
THUS GOD GAVE THE MAN A HELP LIKE UNTO HIMSELF
THE WOMAN IN FLESH.
ATTENTION Jodi please:
Now God created man, MALE AND FEMALE, in the image and LIKENESS OF GOD!
That means that the above verse
“It is not good for man to be ALONE”:
SINCE MAN WAS IN THE LIKENESS OF GOD, MALE AND FEMALE,
is also a reference to God,
MALE AND FEMALE, ANDROGYNOUS!
THUS, BEFORE CREATION STARTED, WHEN GOD, SPIRIT, WAS IN HIS UNIQUE GLORY, ONE WITH HIS SON, PHYSICAL, SAID:
IT IS NOT GOOD FOR GOD TO BE ALONE!
A CLEAR REFERENCE TO PHYSICAL CREATION! MOTHER EARTH! THE FEMALE!
NOW WHEN WE READ THE NEXT VERSE IN Genesis 2:18 referring to the man IT SAYS:
let us make HIM, A CLEAR REFERENCE TO SPIRITUAL CREATION IN THE MAN, THE LIVING SOUL,
a HELP like unto HIMSELF!
HENCE: BOTH THE MAN AND THE WOMAN, MALE AND FEMALE, TWO HUMAN BEINGS, WERE ALIKE IN THE IMAGE AND LIKENESS OF GOD, MALE AND FEMALE, THE FATHER AND THE SON!John17:5
Likewise, since BOTH WERE in the likeness of God,
BEFORE CREATION STARTED GOD ALSO SAID:
LET US MAKE ME A HELP LIKE ONTO MYSELF,

GOD! Male and female, in
THE FATHER and THE SON!
TO BE CLEAR:
GOD THE FATHER WITHIN THE PHYSICAL BODY OF “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, THE SON OF MAN. John17:5 ,John1:1
AS MUCH AS GOD MADE A HELP ONTO THE MAN IN
THE PHYSICAL BODY OF THE WOMAN, AND SINCE IN THE LIKENESS OF GOD, ALSO IN
“THE WORD” MADE FLESH, THE SON OF MAN, IN ORDER FOR JESUS/SPIRIT TO MAINTAIN HIS PRIMACY,
JESUS’ SPIRIT AS THE FIRST WOMAN, AS HE ALSO WAS IN THE FIRST MAN,
SINCE ALL IN HIM, ALL BY HIM, AND ALL FOR HIM.
FOR THE KINGDOM OF THE SON.
SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD! Rev.13:8
IT’S ALL YOURS Jodi and in this case, Gene, TO PONDER!
You: I have given you scripture that directly proves to you that Jesus was NOT the WORKER, that it was indeed YHVH our Father….
IN VIEW OF THE ABOVE TRUTH IT IS A DIFFERENT STORY ALTOGETHER SINCE THERE ARE
TWO KINGDOMS:
THE KINGDOM OF GOD, and
THE KINGDOM OF THE SON,
THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN and
THE KINGDOM OF THE WORLD TO COME! RESPECTIVELY!

Peace and love in Jesus Christ
November 14, 2023 at 12:42 pm#945551
carmel
Participant
Jodi,
You: Jesus’s glory that the people beheld is always in relation to him
having been born of the Spirit at the river Jordan.
Me: The above is your invention!
Produce the specific scripture that says the above precise words!
JESUS WAS BORN OF THE HOLY GHOST ONLY WHEN HE CAME OUT OF MARY AS
THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD!
YAHWEH, THE LIGHT, BORN IN JESUS!
John 12:46 I am come a light into the world; that whosoever believeth in me, may not remain in darkness.
BORN IN A RADIANT SPIRIT BODY!
Jesus’s proof that he was indeed a Son is ALWAYS in relation to YHVH’s Spirit being in him and him being LED BY the Spirit, LED by YHVH
to do YHVH’s works.
Me: AS WITHOUT JESUS, YAHWEH REMAINS UNKNOWN, MYSTERIOUS, AND HIDDEN ON THIS TANGIBLE PLANET.
NO JESUS NO YAHWEH!
John17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth:
EVEN SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD Rev.13:8
Re.5:1 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12Saying with a loud voice,
Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
13And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

John 17:5 I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Me: EVEN SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD! Rev. 13:8
NO JESUS NO YAHWEH!
5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Isaiah 45;23 I have sworn by myself,
the “WORD” of justice shall go out of my mouth,
and shall not return:
For every knee shall be bowed to me, and every tongue shall swear.

Philippians 2:9 For which cause God also HATH exalted him,
and HATH given him a name which is above all names:
YAHWEH!
10That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth:
11 And that every tongue should confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.

Isaiah 45:24Therefore shall he say:
In the Lord are my justices and empire:
they shall come to him, and all that resist him shall be confounded.

Hebrews 1:8 But to the Son: Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:
a sceptre of justice is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9Thou hast loved justice, and hated iniquity:
therefore God, thy God,
hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Isaiah 45:25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified and praised.
John 17:23 I in them,
and thou in me,
that they may be made perfect in one;
and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Peace and love in Jesus Christ
November 15, 2023 at 4:01 am#945552
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Answer Gene, please:
CAN A NORMAL HUMAN BEING EXIST IN THIS WORLD WITHOUT
THE SEXUAL REPRODUCTIVE ACT BETWEEN
THE SPERM OF THE MAN AND THE OVUM OF THE WOMAN,
FROM CAIN ONWARD?
YES OR NO PLEASE!
Carmel here is your answer, YES a normal human being can exist without sin, Jesus is the perfect example of that, proving, “with God “all” things are possible”. According to Jesus, but then I know you truly don’t believe what Jesus said> Jesus never thought himself to be good , he attributed “all” goodness to “One” God, YHVH, the “ONLY” TRUE GOD”. according to “Jesus” that is.
Carmel you and Berean , on the other hand are perfect examples of how “churches can screw up a persons mind”.
peace and love to you and yours………gene
November 15, 2023 at 4:27 am#945553
Jodi
Participant
Hi Berean,
I am trying to hold you accountable to the sum of all scripture. You can give your belief all you want but you cannot continue saying that it is biblical truth when you aren’t able in the slightest to prove it in the sum of all scripture.
You said that the Son was the worker and the Father was the architect. In the sum of all scripture, not just your hand picked ones you falsely interpret as you ignore vast amounts of the bible, your doctrine is exposed as a complete lie.
The OT does not teach that YHVH our heavenly Father created heaven, earth and all things therein by the means of a Son. On the contrary the OT teaches us that He did so Alone, all by Himself and further we are given the PURPOSE and who He was creating it FOR.
Moreover the OT has no problem telling us who will fulfill YHVH’s will, what this person will accomplish and how it is they accomplish it. Further we are directly given in the OT also that this is the very person YHVH had made creation by reason of and for.
When we get to the NT, the gospels are all about YHVH’s word being made true in the flesh of Jesus of Nazareth. He is indeed the man of the OT to who YHVH had made creation by reason of and for and he is indeed the man of the OT who brings forth the End that YHVH had declared from the beginning.
Berean, it is delusional to think that in the OT it is perfectly reasonable that YHVH tells us that a man is going to come and fulfill all of His will giving details BUT THEN JUST LEAVE OUT COMPLETELY that it was not actually YHVH alone who made heaven and earth but this man had also pre-existed and it was him who actually did the works of creation. That is not reasonable it is completely delusional.
YOU: God the Father is the source of all LIFE, even that of his only BEGOTTEN Son “in the days of eternity” (Micah 5:2)
ME: Berean, now who is rewriting scripture?
Micah 5: 2And thou, Beth-Lehem Ephratah, Little to be among the chiefs of Judah! From thee to Me he cometh forth to be ruler in Israel, And his comings forth are of old, From the days of antiquity.
The above verse aligns with below passage perfectly.
Isaiah 44:7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
24 Thus saith YHVH, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; 25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish; 26 That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers; that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof:
Micah 5:4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of YHVH, in the majesty of the name of YHVH his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.
Berean, it’s also delusional to think that one verse in the OT is dropping some bombshell truth with just a couple of words and absolutely no further explanation, and is telling us that the ruler that is to come out from the tribe of Judah and go forth in the strength of YHVH as His servant and messenger had actually existed beforehand. The goings forth of this man we are directly given was declared even before the days of old, it was declared from the beginning and even before the world was and he is coming forth from ancient people whom YHVH had appointed.
Revelation 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
I don’t have anymore time or else I would go on about Revelation 5. Jesus indeed received eternal life and by such he LIVETH FOREVER. The lamb is the Son of David to whom God had promised He WOULD BE A FATHER TO and that He WOULD SETTLE him INTO HIS HOUSE AND KINGDOM FOREVER. YHVH raised him from the dead never to allow his flesh to see corruption and he gave him the sure mercies of David all as He had promised.
November 15, 2023 at 5:34 am#945554
Berean
Participant
Jodi,
Very good Jodi, you do not believe in the divinity of the Son of God….Someone blocked your eyes to see the truth….I ONLY hope that one day, CHRIST HIMSELF SHOWS YOU WHO REALY HE IS, A LITTLE LIKE PAUL ON THE ROAD TO DAMASCUS.
🙏
November 15, 2023 at 11:01 am#945555
carmel
Participant
Hi Gene,
Answer Gene, please:
CAN A NORMAL HUMAN BEING EXIST IN THIS WORLD WITHOUT
THE SEXUAL REPRODUCTIVE ACT BETWEEN
THE SPERM OF THE MAN AND THE OVUM OF THE WOMAN,
FROM CAIN ONWARD?
YES OR NO PLEASE!
Carmel here is your answer,
YES a normal human being can exist without sin,

Gene,
YOU DIDN’T ANSWER MY QUESTION THUS:
READ AGAIN MY QUESTION AND ANSWER PLEASE:
CAN A NORMAL HUMAN BEING EXIST IN THIS WORLD WITHOUT
THE SEXUAL REPRODUCTIVE ACT BETWEEN
THE SPERM OF THE MAN AND THE OVUM OF THE WOMAN,
FROM CAIN ONWARD?
YES OR NO PLEASE!

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

November 15, 2023 at 11:48 am#945556
carmel
Participant
Hi Jodi,
You:The OT does not teach that YHVH our heavenly Father created heaven, earth and all things therein by the means of a Son
Proverbs:8:30 I was with him forming all things: and was delighted every day, playing before him at all times;

Peace and love in Jesus Christ
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did you not know, that I must be about my father’s business?

Suffer it to be so now.

For so it becometh us to fulfill all justice.

all things were created by him and in him.

17And he is before all,

and by him all things consist.

who is the beginning,

that in all things he may hold the primacy:

that all fullness should dwell;

20 And THROUGH HIM to reconcile all things unto himself,

enemies in mind in evil works:

to present you holy and unspotted, and blameless before HIM:

John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you.

so neither can you,

unless you abide in me.

for without me you can do nothing.

MR SON OF GOD?

John 1:12 But as many as received him,

HIS NAME.

YAHWEH!

ANSWER Gene!

but of God. JESUS

Me: Jodi the above is KID’S STUFF!

ALL BY YOURSELF?

OR WITH THE HELP

It is not good for man to be ALONE:

“It is not good for man to be ALONE”:

is also a reference to God,

MALE AND FEMALE, ANDROGYNOUS!

IT IS NOT GOOD FOR GOD TO BE ALONE!

a HELP like unto HIMSELF!

LET US MAKE ME A HELP LIKE ONTO MYSELF,

GOD! Male and female, in

THE FATHER and THE SON!

TO BE CLEAR:

For every knee shall be bowed to me, and every tongue shall swear.

YAHWEH!

10That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

11 And that every tongue should confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.

In the Lord are my justices and empire:

a sceptre of justice is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9Thou hast loved justice, and hated iniquity:

therefore God, thy God,

John 17:23 I in them,

that they may be made perfect in one;

YES a normal human being can exist without sin,

CAN A NORMAL HUMAN BEING EXIST IN THIS WORLD WITHOUT

THE SEXUAL REPRODUCTIVE ACT BETWEEN

THE SPERM OF THE MAN AND THE OVUM OF THE WOMAN,

FROM CAIN ONWARD?

YES OR NO PLEASE!

Proverbs:8:30 I was with him forming all things: and was delighted every day, playing before him at all times;

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