He would be right if we are talking about the first heaven.

If he is talking about the second heaven, then he may or may not be right. But if he was right and there is water outside the cosmos, then we haven’t discovered it yet. But this has no bearing on the shape of the earth, so you have lost. This is not evidence the earth is flat is…[Read more]

Mike:  Okay, then you ARE saying he is right.  Great.  Then please tell us what and where these waters above the heavens are.  Thanks.

 

Pretender:  Nope. I am reminding you that you need to be careful about establishing doctrine from such words.

Actually, you’re trying to stall.  Just tell me plainly if the writer of Psalm 148 was right or wr…[Read more]

Tiger: I am the winner

Mike: here’s a video of a man who is a shapeshifter. Look at his eyes when he blinks.

That is pretty much what has happened here.

Okay, then you ARE saying he is right.  Great.  Then please tell us what and where these waters above the heavens are.  Thanks.

Nope. I am reminding you that you need to be careful about establishing doctrine from such words. If we did that with all words in the bible, then we would need to craft a doctrine about Jesus having a demon. That is th…[Read more]

Pretender:  <span style=”color: #ff0000;”>I win, you lose.</span>

Really?

Mike:  <span style=”color: #0000ff;”>Here’s a way you and I can actually have a respectable discussion about this issue.</span>

Pretender:  <span style=”color: #ff0000;”>NO!  I’m not interested in an actual discussion about it because you’ll likely expose my premise as fla…[Read more]

The sun, moon and stars are IN the raqia, and the waters above are ABOVE the entire raqia.

Nope. That raqia is the division created by the waters only.

God had already created the heavens and the earth in the beginning.

Sky is what we see when we look up. It is obvious that the clouds are in the sky and stars are in the sky. Speaking of the…[Read more]

Pretender:  I am stating that men say things in the bible that are not true…

We’re talking about a writer OF scripture making HIS OWN claim about our Biblical earth.  We’re NOT talking about a writer of scripture QUOTING Satan or someone else telling a lie.

You are trying to conflate the two, and I’m merely exposing your flawed plan.

So f…[Read more]

Mike, the more you argue, the more I win.

You are making me more of a winner.

But I don’t take the credit myself because I have to admit that arguing for the truth is easy.

Telling lies and more lies to cover those lies is difficult.

This is why you are consistently losing mike.

I’ve explained my rules, right?  You refused to follow them, right?  The subject is closed UNTIL you follow those rules.  End of story.

Let me translate this for you. You cannot bring back the sun.

I wonder why? Maybe because the heliocentric model is true and you cannot bring back the biggest physical light in the cosmos from our point of view.

Pretender:  Personally speaking, and God is my witness, my opinion was the raqia being most likely the first and second heaven.

Okay.  I guess it’s fine by me if you want to think the ONE raqia is BOTH the first AND second heavens.  Just remember that it still all boils down to one very simple thing…

The sun, moon and stars are IN the raqia, an…[Read more]

BOOMERANG!  More insults from a person who is literally speaking about HIMSELF!

Only a clown would think that the Bible recording what the Pharisees actually DID say is somehow the Bible being wrong.

Once again you are making false assumptions. Read my post again. I am stating that men say things in the bible that are not true, but historically…[Read more]

Pretender:  Blah, blah, blah… bring back the sun… blah, blah, blah.

I’ve explained my rules, right?  You refused to follow them, right?  The subject is closed UNTIL you follow those rules.  End of story.

Notice how you’re speaking scripturally now.  You’re correctly calling it THE raqia, and distinguishing it FROM “the heavens” in general by acknowledging that it is a particular part OF “the heavens”.  That’s BIG progress!

Thank you. but I never denied such in the first place. I simply stated that God called the raqia – heavens. Accepting that…[Read more]

Pretender: Recording what a person says does not make the bible wrong.

The Pharisees said, “Jesus uses the power of Beelzebul to force demons out of people.

And what’s wrong about that Biblical statement above?  Are you arguing that the Pharisees DIDN’T say what the Bible records them as saying?

Pretender:  You are lacking in critical thin…

[Read more]

It proves deep down, you have no confidence in your own theory. If you did, you would bring back the sun and the whole world would be in wonder. But you would prefer not to win, but instead argue about a raqia that in itself is zero proof that the world is flat.

I’m not buying it. But I can clearly see the ramblings of a man who lost.

Pretender:  Blah, blah blah… bring back the sun… blah, blah, blah.

You know my rules.  Get to it or leave it alone.

Mike:  “The heavens declare the glory of God… AND… THE raqia shows His handiwork.”

 

Proclaimer:  If the raqia is called heaven, but lets say specifically a part of the heavens, then good.

Notice how you’re speaking scripturally now.  You’re correctly calling it THE raqia, and distinguishing it FROM “the heavens” in general by acknowledg…[Read more]

So then what you’re saying is that this particular line of the Bible is WRONG, right?

Recording what a person says does not make the bible wrong.

The Pharisees said, “Jesus uses the power of Beelzebul to force demons out of people.

However, I am not even saying that David was wrong. He says clouds cover the heavens. Thus the context of hea…[Read more]

I tend to steer clear of wild goose chases.

The important thing here is you cannot bring back the sun because it has set. Even scripture says the sun sets. You say it means something else, but refuse to bring back the sun and put this to bed. But you are happy to bring back small boats into view that never went over the horizon in the first…[Read more]

Mike:  I’ve already addressed this many times.  Find one of those posts, QUOTE what I said to you, and then respond to what I said.  You do it that way, and I’m happy to have a lengthy and respectable discussion about this issue.

 

Proclaimer:  Nope…

Suit yourself.  The three people who read this thread (out of the 5 total members of this for…[Read more]